Of the six characters in my signature only one has finished act 3. The shadow and the sentinel only finished act 2 for the buff and even then they leveled through pvp and then I stream rolled through the story quests. The rest of them are only advanced enough to get their ships. So it's more like:

 

Can you advance with out pvp: yes

Can you advance without Pve: yes

 

And for the Pve I did do I didn't need to do it. I did it to get the rewards from it that I wanted, buffs and ships. The same as any Pve player might do pvp to get a relic or something else. I never said pvp wasn't a mini game I simply if it's a mini game so are raids and flash points.

According to your last paragraph, the correct answer is no, since you don't get your ship at level 15ish unless you've finished the class missions. Leveling up isn't advancing, it's leveling up. Obtaining your ship and then the legacy perk for buffs is advancement. If you obtained these rewards through reaching a specific level instead of certain parts of the actual story, you'd have a point. As the game is designed, you wouldn't have these perks w/out advancing in PvE.

[...] This thread seems like someone trying to start a fight.

/Thread.

Obvious attempt to incite flame-war, trolling, the odd not-too-veiled personal attack...

Yeah, OP: Are you actually trying to get set read-only, or are you really that blinkered?

This is not a PvP game. It never was, and if memory serves, the original dev-team even came right out and said so.

Ur stuffs, I can haz?

According to your last paragraph, the correct answer is no, since you don't get your ship at level 15ish unless you've finished the class missions. Leveling up isn't advancing, it's leveling up. Obtaining your ship and then the legacy perk for buffs is advancement. If you obtained these rewards through reaching a specific level instead of certain parts of the actual story, you'd have a point. As the game is designed, you wouldn't have these perks w/out advancing in PvE.

While in point of fact.... you can level up in this game via a number of methods (including PvP only)... it's less then optimal IMO. So.. yeah.. people will miss key progressions in the game (like getting a personal ship) if they were to say.... level strictly via PvP. Then again.. I personally don't feel any significant number of players in the player base would in fact do this sort of thing... or if they do.. they do it for a change of pace on one character. The majority of players will level and progress through some combination of PvE/PvP play.

As to the topic... PvP is not really a minigame per se.. but it does indeed lack any lasting consequences to a server in any way. Some players are fine with this, some are not. The "declaration" of some aspect of an MMO being a "minigame" is largely rhetorical in nature.. though it can be valid (broadly speaking) in the context of what the focus of a particular MMO might be.

For example... EVE = PvP centric game that can be PvEed. So.. some might declare that PvE in EVE is a minigame within the larger game implementation. Personally, with respect to EVE it is the economy that is the game and to me the various PvE and PvP aspects of EVE are contributory to the overall game. The economy is where the real PvP is played in EVE... the battles in space (large or small) are simply variables within the game economy.....though large battles can notably reset the economy in many ways (sending it into a grand material replacement cycle).

Whereas in SWTOR (a PvE centric game by design) I don't really see any aspect of it to be so strong as to relegate other activities to "mini-game" status. PvP in SWTOR is for fun, but not for strategic progress/denial, but then again so is everything else in SWTOR (even though hardcore raiders would probably balk at that comment).

At the end of the day, as is true in most gaming forum thread discussions... different terms mean different things to different players. Level setting terms in a discussion... so that we can actually have a bilateral discussion about something.... has proven fairly difficult (and not just in this forum).

TL;DR PvP = Minigame is a term best used (IMO) when trying to express to hardcore PvP players who want the game completely revamped in terms of PvP that they are playing a game that is actually casual in terms of PvP (using the term "casual" to mean something done for fun rather then live/die competiton.) It's an effort to help the hardcore manage their expectations.. and frankly... that's not a audience that wants to be reasoned with much, IMO.

According to your last paragraph, the correct answer is no, since you don't get your ship at level 15ish unless you've finished the class missions. Leveling up isn't advancing, it's leveling up. Obtaining your ship and then the legacy perk for buffs is advancement. If you obtained these rewards through reaching a specific level instead of certain parts of the actual story, you'd have a point. As the game is designed, you wouldn't have these perks w/out advancing in PvE.

But if those perks don't matter to you, then there's no point in getting them. I'm not held back in any way by not having a personal ship. At least, not the way I'm playing that character. He still progresses, gets new skills, new armor, new mods, new weapons, and could even craft (if I wanted that). And, yet, it's all done without PvE content.

Playing the game: your way is not the only way.

In PvP there is no story. That is all.

You lack vision.

/Thread.

 

Obvious attempt to incite flame-war, trolling, the odd not-too-veiled personal attack...

 

Yeah, OP: Are you actually trying to get set read-only, or are you really that blinkered?

 

This is not a PvP game. It never was, and if memory serves, the original dev-team even came right out and said so.

 

Ur stuffs, I can haz?

Lol

PvP'ers are just big meany heads, they don't know how hard PvE is and the skill that is involved compard to PvP.

 

Truth!

I giggled at this more than I should have, I'm sure.

But if those perks don't matter to you, then there's no point in getting them. I'm not held back in any way by not having a personal ship. At least, not the way I'm playing that character. He still progresses, gets new skills, new armor, new mods, new weapons, and could even craft (if I wanted that). And, yet, it's all done without PvE content.

 

Playing the game: your way is not the only way.

While I tend to agree with this viewpoint, the response is to a post claiming he did all this advancement in PvP, and yet, had to PvE to get his ships and buffs he wanted. I primarily PvE here, in fact, I've never been in a WZ, although I did mess around with GSF when it first came out for Subs, because I don't see this as more than dueling. When I want to PvP, I go play a game where PvP is actually factored in as part of the game, not where it's tacked on, as it is here. I don't see PvP any differently here than I do in DDO; a tack on app to garner a few more players.

You lack vision.

Looking at your signature I'd say you lack self esteem.

Looking at your signature I'd say you lack self esteem.

According to your last paragraph, the correct answer is no, since you don't get your ship at level 15ish unless you've finished the class missions. Leveling up isn't advancing, it's leveling up. Obtaining your ship and then the legacy perk for buffs is advancement. If you obtained these rewards through reaching a specific level instead of certain parts of the actual story, you'd have a point. As the game is designed, you wouldn't have these perks w/out advancing in PvE.

You can also advance your character via PvP with gear, tokens, Valor, speeders, crystals...PvE is not the only way to advance your character. And again, once a character is 55, EVERY activity is a mini-game. EVERY ONE.

According to your last paragraph, the correct answer is no, since you don't get your ship at level 15ish unless you've finished the class missions. Leveling up isn't advancing, it's leveling up. Obtaining your ship and then the legacy perk for buffs is advancement. If you obtained these rewards through reaching a specific level instead of certain parts of the actual story, you'd have a point. As the game is designed, you wouldn't have these perks w/out advancing in PvE.

I said that in my post, I did the PvE quests to get the PvE rewards. I didn't need them. There is always peopel buffing in WZ's and I rarely leave the fleet anyway. If I had a level 55 char in min/maxed PvP gear would say I hadn't advanced at all because I was still on DK as far as class stories? If you're doing RWZ's I'd say you have advanced your character.

I'd also like reiterate that I never said in the OP that I was mad or that PvP isn't a mini game. I simply stated that if PvP is a mini game so are the Ops and FP's.

You can also advance your character via PvP with gear, tokens, Valor, speeders, crystals...PvE is not the only way to advance your character. And again, once a character is 55, EVERY activity is a mini-game. EVERY ONE.

...and if you look at my post history in this thread, you'll see I've said exactly that. However, since the items listed in the post I quoted for the post you quoted, the correct answer is still no. Show me one player that PvPd their way into a player ship or Legacy buffs. Context is everything. PvE is the only way to get your ship and Legacy buffs, making his statement, in context, false.

ETA: This response covers both the responses. The real "mini game" here is gearing. Whether it's PvP or PvE, gear is the ultimate goal. I'm baffled that somebody else's opinion warrants a post here about it. I play the game I intended to play when I bought the game. If that makes somebody else unhappy, it sucks to be them.

Hrmmm... lots of epeen waving in here...

You know why I PVE?

Because I play for the roleplaying fantasy

Because I play for immersion

Because I like my character as a special hero in a world of normal people

Because I play to relax, not stress out.

Because when I die, I would rather it take longer than 10 seconds of engagement

Because PVE has story

Because I play for fun, not frustration

Inevitably, in literally every game I've ever played, I never enjoy PVP as much as PVE (sometimes exception: EVE Online - breaking gatecamps was exhilarating, and Mechwarrior Online - if your pugs are half competent, it can be fun). I find PVP tiring, frustrating, and stressful. If I want that I'll go to work early.

My time and money go to Bioware for their PVE content. I will never play PVP here, and any effort they put into it is simply content I'll never see and won't stay subscribed to participate in. If they want to keep getting my money, they will keep producing PVE content. I'll never understand why they wasted all that effort on GSF only for it to be multiplayer only. Nobody played Xwing or TIE Fighter for the PVP, they played it for the freaking kick butt campaign missions...

The epeen waving here really cracks me up. Come back when you have to aim your weapons manually... until then, you're not impressing me.

EAware needs to start focusing their attention to the hardcore communities and keep the focus onto casuals and lesser-skilled players to a minimum. Both hardcore PvP and PvE isn't a mini-game, but it's what keeps players retained long term which EAware has failed to do. If anything the ratio of attention for hardcore to casual should be 80%/20% but at the very least 60%/40%.

I doubt it gets any more 'mini' than hardcore pve/pvp. The only thing big about that is the talk of the fans.

What hardcore does, however, is present that there is always more possible in the game. Trivialize it, rexuce the hard from hardcore and you end up with... My little swtor farm.

Imho it's the mix. Thr whole package. Lots of minis. All held togerher by the flair of the game: characters, immersion, the world and it's story.

Nobody played Xwing or TIE Fighter for the PVP.

Ummm... yeah. Did you think I said "XWing vs TIE Fighter"...? I didn't. Because that was nothing more than a shameless ripoff of the first two great games with a small graphics upgrade and PVP as a substitute for real content. And the PVP itself was mediocre with no depth. If that's good PVP to you.... well, you're setting the bar pretty low.

Ummm... yeah. Did you think I said "XWing vs TIE Fighter"...? I didn't. Because that was nothing more than a shameless ripoff of the first two great games with a small graphics upgrade and PVP as a substitute for real content. And the PVP itself was mediocre with no depth. If that's good PVP to you.... well, you're setting the bar pretty low.

Not to mention that it was in an era where most people didn't have access to the internet anyway so alot of people played it against the AI...

Hrmmm... lots of epeen waving in here...

 

You know why I PVE?

Because I play for fun, not frustration

You seem to let playing a game bother you more than it should. Nobody cares if you die in PvP, it's the entire purpose of the playstyle. Relax a bit and realize that every PvP has died...it's trying to figure out how to accomplish what you want without dying that's fun!

You seem to let playing a game bother you more than it should. Nobody cares if you die in PvP, it's the entire purpose of the playstyle. Relax a bit and realize that every PvP has died...it's trying to figure out how to accomplish what you want without dying that's fun!

Actually, in the two games I mentioned that I actually enjoyed PVP in, there are no respawns. Dying is very bad in both, and once you die you're out of the fight. The respawn PvP model has always seemed stupid to me.

Hrmmm... lots of epeen waving in here...

 

You know why I PVE?

Because I play for the roleplaying fantasy

Because I play for immersion

Because I like my character as a special hero in a world of normal people

Because I play to relax, not stress out.

Because when I die, I would rather it take longer than 10 seconds of engagement

Because PVE has story

Because I play for fun, not frustration

Wait I do this all the time in WPvP But to each their own, I can understand why people stick to there preferred play styles. Hell this is the first game that I consistently participate in pvp,rp, and pve. I personally consider pvp a mini game since this game is largely driven by story pve.

Actually, in the two games I mentioned that I actually enjoyed PVP in, there are no respawns. Dying is very bad in both, and once you die you're out of the fight. The respawn PvP model has always seemed stupid to me.

Try arenas then - no respawn. The respawn to me has always been the best mechanic in PvP imo (any PvP, not just here) because it encouraged players to continue fighting.

Any MMO that makes dying in PvP "bad", is a game I'd never play. I play to enjoy myself, win or lose, not frustrate myself if I lose.

You seem to let playing a game bother you more than it should. Nobody cares if you die in PvP, it's the entire purpose of the playstyle. Relax a bit and realize that every PvP has died...it's trying to figure out how to accomplish what you want without dying that's fun!

Or figuring out how to accomplish objectives no matter how many times you die!

Ummm... yeah. Did you think I said "XWing vs TIE Fighter"...? I didn't. Because that was nothing more than a shameless ripoff of the first two great games with a small graphics upgrade and PVP as a substitute for real content. And the PVP itself was mediocre with no depth. If that's good PVP to you.... well, you're setting the bar pretty low.

I know what you said lol