View Single Post

Kitru's Avatar

05.23.2013 , 11:17 AM | #25
Quote: Originally Posted by Vaidinah View Post
Offensively, Shadows optimally only use 6 skills (7 if you count Force Pull, 8 if off-tanking) in their rotation on 95% of boss fights. They are restricted to a fixed rotation that is both optimized for damage and survivability for the vast majority of every fight. Watching for one proc and one debuff is a joke. Juggernauts use 14 skills (15 if you count Saber Reflect) and their skills vary greatly in timing due to Revenge stacks and if you want more damage/threat up-front or survivability.
Complexity isn't just a question of the number of abilities. It's the interaction *between* those attacks that's important. Guardians have everything on a standard CD. There isn't any appreciable variation in their attack string (I kinda laugh when you bring up Revenge stacks because those are an almost *laughably* minor consideration; you don't even have to pay attention to them to get the value out of them: just leave some time between Force Sweep and Blade Storm and, boom, taken care of without paying any attention *at all*; if you absolutely micromanage, at best, you'll get to replace a Strike with a Slash once every 20 seconds which isn't really a big deal). More buttons to push isn't complexity. It's just a more full ability bar. Hell, half of the attacks you're talking about are only used once per minute or only at the start of a fight. Your actual *rotation*, which is what you're talking about with the Shadow 6-8, is comprised of 7-8 attacks (Force Sweep, Blade Storm, Guardian Slash, Riposte, Sunder, Strike, Slash; Master Strike is on a long CD so it's kinda questionable) that you don't even really have to watch because they're all on a standard CD. The only "variable" one is Riposte and that's just "spam the living hell out of it". I've *got* a Guardian and routinely *deal* with Guardians. The Guardian rotation is a joke (and, yes, it's a rotation, not a priority string).

Now, I'm not saying that the Shadow priority is necessarily *hard*, but it's definitely more difficult than what Guardians have to "deal" with. Before, Guardians required some level of skill and practice to learn to attack with em, but, now... If you think it's even *remotely* hard or complex, you're doing it wrong.

Defensively, Shadows optimally use 4 cool downs for themselves (including the Ward) and 1 skill that benefits their team (Phase Walk). Juggernauts use 5 for themselves and 2 for their team (Intercede and AoE taunt). Any decent Shadow knows how to use their defensive cooldowns and this makes up the majority of the difficulty of playing one. How many Guardians know how to maximize their defensive cooldowns (especially Enraged Defense) and protect their team with Intercede and AoE taunt? Very few and that is one of the big differences between a decent Guardian and an optimally played one.
You're once again conflating the number of CDs with the complexity of those CDs. Shadow CDs require you actually *know* what the attacks are. With the exception of Battle Readiness (which is omg amazing), the Shadow CDs explicitly require you know what you're doing. Bringing up the fact that most Shadows already *know* how to use them because they've had gobloads of practice (especially us major Shadow advice givers) has nothing to do with it. It's "easy" because we've had practice, not because it's easy. Guardians have 5 CDs, only one of which requires any skill to use "properly" and that's not even a major contributor (Focused Defense is a minute amount of healing and chews through your resources while dropping your threat; talking about it like it should be used more than once in a blue moon is like referring to Phase Walk as an amazing tool of awesome usefulness), all of which are absolutely gobsmackingly easy to use because all but one is useful in all situations (Saber Ward applies to both Force and Tech, Warding Call reduces *all* damage multiplicatively by 40%, Endure Pain gives you 30% extra hp so, even if you're at full health, it's still useful). Saber Reflect is the only one that requires any knowledge of mechanics to use and that's just learning whether it's an AoE or melee attack (which tend to be pretty obvious; the wonky ones are attacks like Terminate that you have to figure out whether are ranged or F/T, which, guess what, Saber Reflect applies to either way), plus it's on a standard CD rather than a variable one like Resilience (at which point you also have to weigh the benefits of ignoring the attack or cleansing the debuffs).

As to the party assists, Guardian Leap is probably the *only* funky one, and that's more a question of "who do I leap to" rather than "how do I use this". Most Guardians have a problem using it less because it's hard to use and more because they don't have the modicum of practice from using it while solo to gain proficiency in it. The AoE taunt shield is almost painfully in how it's used (big damage to everyone coming? AoE taunt and tell the other tank to retaunt his target). Phase Walk, on the other hand, is both not really all that useful (5% additional healing output? that's... awesome... ish; it's slightly more than Commando and Scoundrel healers give themselves passively! Except that it's got a short duration, non-permanent uptime, and requires the tank to stop actually doing their job for an extended period of time to get anything out of it...) and requires loads more effort to actually get anything out of while also outright *doing* less. Man, we *really* got an awesome ability, totally more useful than Saber Reflect.

Guardians are *not* complex. They have more *buttons*, but that's not complexity. Complexity is having options that aren't just an automatic choice. Complexity is actually having to make a decision on the fly rather than just clicking one of a category of equally effective options. Complexity is an ability that you can't just use by clicking a single button to help out your group but, instead, requires you sacrifice time tanking to place or replace it (more than just the 1 GCD is you want to place it *effectively*) *and* forces you to choose between destroying it to fulfill the ability's normal purpose or having it behave purely as a party buff.
Walls of Text? I *love* Walls of Text!
My New Class Idea
Shadow Class Rep - Suggest/Review Questions Here
Quote: Originally Posted by Fende View Post
Listen to Kitru. Kitru knows all.