And it is amazing how big the fear is that other people get something similar to what one self has.

 

Wasting time with PvP to get gear is ok. Wasting time with raiding to get gear is ok. But wasting time with crafting isn't ok? On what basis?

You get gear from socializing, you get gear from piloting, you get gear from crafting. But only raid and pvp gear is allowed to be worn to see the content? Because... because... because... I am a raider and I am a pvper and all others suck. That's the kind of logic behind the whole argument.

 

 

I said the following in another post and it's proven here:

 

Furthermore I don't think you can have a game (now) where crafting can drive progression equally to raiding without making the game truly crafting based. MMO society now drives everyone into the casual vs hardcore, collectors vs achievers, crafters vs raiders etc dichotomies and very few are capable/willing to admit that there's room for everyone at the mmo table. Your way sucks, mine is best etc.

 

Bummer.

I'm still waiting for you to answer what else there was to do, and you haven't.

 

The cosmetics of gear has been an issue in every game. But once again that has absolutely nothing to do with the argument at hand. The whole basis of your complaint was crafting sucks because it's not the best gear you can get. Then right above this in your quote you even admit that raid gear should still have perks over crafted gear.

 

At this point I think you're arguing just for the sake of arguing.

 

My argument this whole time has been that crafted gear is worse than Vendor. I'd like to see it on par with PvP and Raid gear considering the loops we have to leap through to make the top crafted gear, but at the very least I want to see it better than vendor gear.

 

Crafting has no purpose if you can just go to a vendor and buy something better than the best thing you can craft, and for much much less than the cost of materials. Also, if you read what I actually said, even if the stats are on par, raid gear has it's set bonuses that crafted gear will never have. That alone should be more than enough for you and your guild mates who want to look exactly the same to go after your raid gear, while the rest of us who want to be able to play on a level playing field while keeping out personality and individuality can with minimal impact.

 

Nothing will stop people from raiding. Even with complete nightmare level raid gear people will still raid, until something better comes along. Not everyone wants to raid after all. Some of us are here for RP, others for Story-lines. Some are even here just to goof off and have fun. The Endgame remains, as it always has been in every game, what ever YOU make of it.

 

So you want to know what all there is to do at the end game besides Raid and PvP?

 

RP

Goof off with friends

Hunt World Bosses

Complete your Codex

and more...

 

There are other things to do besides raid. An MMO would be a massive failure if all there was to it was raiding.

 

And before you even try to bring it up, I've had this exact same argument about raids back when I played WoW, there were other things to do there as well.

Good luck getting your crafted gear to match PvP gear and raid gear. I'm done arguing with people who want to ruin the game. Fortunately BW has the right idea and only a small vocal minority are stamping their feet and holding their breath. Go play that uber successful crafting based game SWG... too late. BW knows what people want, and for the vast majority, that's not crafting. By all means take your money to the many AAA MMOs with crafting on par with PvP and raid gear. Maybe you can get on the boards of an upcoming game and tell them how much they need crafting to be big time to succeed like.... oh never mind.

I'm just going to throw this out there:

 

Blacksmithing - grants the ability for gem-socketable gloves (beyond existing stats)

Alchemy - increased effect from pots/flasks

Jewelcrafting - Profession-only gems with increased stats

Enchanting - Profession-only enchants with increased stats

Tailoring - Profession-only enchants for legs

Leatherworking - Profession-only bracer enchant

 

Bioware, surely you can see the trend here. I'm not saying copy one-for-one, but what about something like:

 

Artifice - profession-only hilts with increased stats

Armormech - grants ability to install augment (primary or secondary) slots into heavy chest pieces

Synthweaving - grants the ability to install augments (primary or secondary) into light/medium legs

Biochem - leave as is, or give the corresponding stat buff to stim-use at max-level Rakata stims that give a secondary stat buff

Armstech - profession-only BOP barrels with increased stats

Cybertech - profession-only BOP mods (a max of 1-2 installed or something)

 

It doesn't have to be exactly like that, but you get the idea. There needs to be some endgame benefit to taking a crew skill.

 

More so each skill should have a choice of 3 specialisations (PVE , PVP, Utility.

Each specialisation gives you access to special gear with specific bonuses and a cooldown like transmute which yield tiered style mats which are then used to make gear on par with the raid tiers or pvp seasons.

 

PVE can make pure PvE gear the PvP will have stats on par with Arena gear and the Utility specialisation maybe can produce gear taht gives bonuses to your ship, mount, companion. etc

 

if you calculate raid lockout timers then drop rate on average for said item and the average people you compete against on said item then surely someone mire skilled in statistics than me can figure out how many mats that require special cooldowns are needed to craft such items to make the time sinks on par to raiding.

buying cooldowns is also good for the economy because it moves credits.

also cooldowns necourage multiple alts for this said reason and leveling alts is good for business if they tend to buy stuff from the GTN while leveling.

 

in wow enchanters love alters because they dump green junk on the AH which then is DEchanted and sold as enchanting mats to Enchanting leveler alts or to people who need those enchants. im sure similar codependent mechanics can be implemented here.

 

I mean if skilled armourers had way to make lots of money at 400/50 recipes then tehy will likely buy their low level gear to reverse engieer for mats of the people who just dump it onthe GTN while leveling..

 

codependent economy based on recycling craftables and churning out higher level stuff that sells better is necessary for a healthy economy.

 

Some players enjoy to go to work for few hour after they finish work (raiders). my time is limited. i enjoy supplying quality crafted goods for those raiders because they usualy have lots of money both from good gear BOE taht they pick up and sell and just from looting in the raids in general.

 

Biochems have incentive to max their skill both for PvE and PvP

PvPers would likely also go for the infinite grenades.

No one else has any incentrive to go anythgin else.

 

Fixing the crafting professions codependency and fixing the GTN interface should be the #1 priority to save the economy of the crafters.

I don't think crafter's should be able to make equal gear to raid gear at all.

 

However, I think that each craft should have a unique bonus to doing it, like BioChem get's reusable BoP med's/adrens/stims.

 

Just like in WoW (Go cry, I don't care) each profession had a unique bonus for doing it, ie enchanters could chant their rings.

 

I like that Maybe others don't /shrug.

Wall of text inc!

 

What about the BoP thing for crafted items? It totally alienates the purpose of playing an MMO. It's multiplayer, I feel like every action should encourage me to mingle, to collaborate, to get in touch with people. BoP items encourage isolation.

 

(Note that I'm referring to BoP for CRAFTED items, not for recipes, mats, or flashpoint drops, BoP is absolutely fine for me there)

 

The cool thing about crafting is the possibility of developing an economy, of creating a society. "I can craft this stuff, I'll make you some and in exchange you'll give me some of those you can craft". It encourages teamwork. Makes things more interesting, tbh. If I wanted to do everything by myself, why would I play a Massively Multiplayer Online game?

 

It amazes me how they have gone out of their way to encourage grouping and such, via Heroic quests, Social ranks and such (which, by the way, I think it's neat) but when it comes to crafting, suddenly there's no point in anything. Every remotely cool recipe is either mediocre, or BoP. I was actually very happy these last days when I found the speeder recipes for Cybertech, and worked hard to get to rank 400, telling my guildmates I'd be able to craft them mounts and such... but hey, the speeders are BoP. Seriously? (I wonder why there's the "Mount" tab in the Galactic Trade Network, by the way, if the crafted speeders are BoP).

 

So, my first point: less BoP, more interaction, more economy.

 

Second point: what has already been discussed above: more meaningful crafting recipes. Be it gear, accesories, consumables, or cosmetic-vanity stuff. It doesn't even have to be good gear in terms of stats, it could be, as some people pointed out, gear that gives you bonuses for different things, or simply looks nicer. An outfit that makes your companions finish their missions faster, or with more crit chance, for example. If they finally decide to allow refurnishing the spaceships - well, there you go, more cool crafting that wouldn't have to be gear, yet it'd still be rewarding.

 

Or maybe ridiculous stuff, like a Wookie disguise - bet lots of people would enjoy that.

 

I agree that crafted gear should not be the best gear. But it should be a decent option at least. Specially the recipes that do have requirements such as BoP materials that drop at flashpoints/operations. Those items should be worth the hassle.

 

Third point: how about making crafters people you want to keep close? Like, you want to befriend them, rather than just buy stuff off them? It's actually just like that in real life, isn't it? You always want to have a friend who can repair your computer if you're not savvy, or a trustworthy mechanic for your car, or a good doctor, lawyer, or whatever. Guess what: it'd make people want to be NICE. At least to an extent. I know it sounds pretty idealistic, but, hey, why not? Wouldn't hurt.

 

It's pretty easy with guys who can make stims/medpacs and such. Always handy to have someone like that around/in the guild. The other professions are trickier, but I think it can still be done. For instance, how about needing an Armorsmith when you need your uniquely crafted armor fully repaired? Let me explain: vendors would be able to repair crafted items only to certain extent (I mean CRAFTED items only). Maybe just up to 75%. So you can actually get by perfectly fine without ever needing to contact a crafter. But you'll need to repair it a tad more often and in the long run, it'll be more expensive.

 

Crafters would be able to repair your stuff for free or at least for much less, and also fully repaired, up to 100%. That way you don't make it absolutely necessary for people to contact crafters, but you still provide them a function, and, more importantly, a sense of usefulness.

 

Another idea would be allowing crafters to reshape/recolour your gear. Clone the appearance of some item into your item, perhaps. Or just apply a different colour, or add a hood, or whatever. I know, it'd be a lot of work for the devs. But, again, it would allow the crafters to be useful over time, not just once at the moment of crafting the item.

 

And I do realise this would interfere with the classical BoP/BoE thing, though. I am not implying that it should be removed, I don't think it should. But I am aware that these ideas would require a lot of work. I am also aware that many people wouldn't like the need to depend on someone else for all those things, as a matter of fact, I don't really like it myself, but that's why I mean these ideas for crafted items only. It should be something optional. If you only want the PvP gear, for example, you wouldn't need any of this.

 

You can begin trolling me now

So let me get this straight you want the high end gear with

out ever doing operations? What would be the point of

running in an operation if i can sit in fleet and have better

gear then what i can get running in them. Makes since to me.

 

 

Learn to READ

 

schematics that need BoP materials from dangerous opponents like bosses

Well, you could introduce a crafting system where you need to find rare materials and read up on how to get them. Just the same way as you read up on killing bosses.

 

 

 

Somehow you didn't read the opening post. The point here is that crafting is so broken that it doesn't matter at all. What is the use of the orange items, when I can't use them anymore on level 50 and run around in exactly the same stuff as anybody else? What is the use of crafting if everything else is way better than actually caring for crafting?

 

If you need to play 10 hours to create an artifact item (because you need to collect the materials), would a PvPer craft it? Instead of PvPing 10 hours for an item of comparable quality, but with PvP stats? This will not happen. Never.

 

Have I ever proposed that your crew should collect the materials? No. The player character should do that.

 

And it is amazing how big the fear is that other people get something similar to what one self has.

 

Wasting time with PvP to get gear is ok. Wasting time with raiding to get gear is ok. But wasting time with crafting isn't ok? On what basis?

You get gear from socializing, you get gear from piloting, you get gear from crafting. But only raid and pvp gear is allowed to be worn to see the content? Because... because... because... I am a raider and I am a pvper and all others suck. That's the kind of logic behind the whole argument.

 

Absolutely this

Edited January 6, 2012 by Grmp

you guys know when your 50 and can raid theres epic recipe drops right? just like wow.. Edited January 24, 2012 by Vektarulz

Nice ideas, OP, I agree 100%. No nerf is needed for Biochem, but the other crafts definitely need some attention.

you guys know when your 50 and can raid theres epic recipe drops right? just like wow..

 

Haven't seen a single epic in this game... artifacts on the other hand... ;-)

 

The longer I craft the less I like it.

 

On the plus side:

- The RE system, while tedious, really gives rewards. Discovering a purple earpiece, hearing that RE sound, this really feels like a first kill when you had your companion craft blues for hours and hours and all others running missions to feed them to him (yeah, maybe I should go farming more to speed that up).

 

Negative:

- "you already know this" is a slap in the face

- mission selection is annoying

- farming nodes is tedious when 25 % of nodes are bugged and in the ground

- Buying daily mods really feels like "Damn... I should make these"

- Limiting crafting to raids is pointless. I don't want to raid if I want to craft. Just like raiders don't want to craft items to be able to raid.

- If highlevel crafting = raiding, then highlevel crafting =/= me. Can't leave work at 17:00 to play computergames. Sometimes I can, sometimes not, and sometimes I don't know that before 17:00.

 

And I don't even have to repeat all the stuff about not available high level items.

Thank god I am no Armstech.