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The weird people you meet in Group Finder.


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I just had a Group Finder FP run with a player queued as Damage. (this was Republic side, translations provided for Imperial players reference frame)

 

He was a Shadow (Assassin), spec'd Kinetic Combat (Darkness), using Combat Technique (Dark Charge). Every single pull, from start to finish, his rotation was:

  • stand 10 yards away
  • use Telekinetic Throw (Force Lightning) on cooldown
  • use Project (Shock) on cooldown
  • use Force Breach (Discharge) on cooldown
  • maintain Kinetic Ward (Dark Ward) religiously at 15 charges
  • stand there and do nothing else in-between these 4 cooldowns

 

Watching someone with a double-bladed lightsaber and rocks swirling around them stand outside melee range, never once swing their saber, and spam weak rock attacks was... really, really weird.

 

Damage was agonizingly low, fights took forever, but at least we had a Guardian DPS who really, really knew her stuff and carried us through (just barely) on tighter fights.

 

Swear I just had this player just now but as a tank.

 

Never seen a shadow tank stand so far doing so little other than spam pebbles.

Edited by Gyronamics
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Swear I just had this player just now but as a tank.

 

Never seen a shadow tank stand so far doing so little other than spam pebbles.

 

I'm guilty! At least in 1.7. I used to do this on my Sin tank and stand at range. Keeping threat on everything versus anyone, from afar, not even swinging my lightsaber just because I can >_< And when i feel lazy haha. I would even slowly turn with my arrow keys spamming wither and discharge in a GF BT just because Sin AoE threat was too strong.

Edited by paowee
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Right but this is 2.0 and the only time he was holding aggro was in the forced period after a taunt or if no one else was on the target at the time.

 

I'll put it down to being unpracticed but at 55 and geared to have over 30k things are expected .

Edited by Gyronamics
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Right but this is 2.0 and the only time he was holding aggro was in the forced period after a taunt or if no one else was on the target at the time.

 

I'll put it down to being unpracticed but at 55 and geared to have over 30k things are expected .

 

Yes now in 2.0 you definitely have to do more than just Shock, Wither and Charge to maintain AoE threat as a Sin / Shadow.

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Its funny I came across this post. I have'nt even used group finder yet and have only play in a group a couple of times and never PVP'd. The reason I shy away from groups is im dont want to be one of the guys you just posted about. I have a couple level 50's and working on more so its not like I dont know how to play but........idk.:o

 

Every single one of the poster's was once a noob, some more and some less recently.

To be mentioned here (not by name of course) or to maybe pick something up and advance in your class/playstyle is better, than hiding in a shell.

 

So I encourage you to group up or ask/read in the forum and profit from the knowledge other players have gathered :)

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On monday I had the following hilarious PUG encounter:

 

I was playing my tertiary healer char, a lvl 52 commando healer. I listed as healer only, as I got not a single piece of DD equipment. The group was formed almost instantly.

 

We got battle of ilum and after exchanging a few "hellos" we went on. Assigned tank was a jedi-guardian.

 

On the first pull already, I noticed that this would be a piece of work, as the tank was holding aggro of exactly one mob... the one he was slashing at. As I was keeping him alive, all other mobs naturally turned to me.

 

On the first boss, we wiped twice and one of the DD had to go afk for 5 mins... I took that time to inspect the tank a bit. His equipment seemed alright, even though it was leaning on the DD side much more than on tanking, but at lvl 55 he should have been a suitable tank anyway.

 

Then I took a look at the active buffs and saw the DD-stance on... so the following conversation arised:

 

Me: "Shouldn't you be in Soresu-stance for tanking ?"

Tank: "I am more a DD than a tank. It will work alright."

Me: "But you are the assigned tank for this FP. Did you skill tank at all ?"

Tank: "No, I am fully DD skilled."

Me: "Then why did you list as a tank ?"

Tank: "Goes faster. If I only list as DD, it takes ages to find a group."

Me: "okay, doesn't matter much, but please switch to Soresu at least, you don't need to reskill for that."

Tank: "Nah, I will pull to much aggro then."

Me: "But that is your job as a tank !"

Tank: "I do not like it, if many mobs hit on me."

Me and DD: "Switch on soresu stance, you are the tank !!!"

Tank: "But then I won't do any damage !"

Me and DD: "So what, you are the tank good heaven, the DDs are doing damage !"

 

He then still refused to change stance for the next fight, which was another wipe, then we told him to either switch stance or ****... he switched and we did not get into any danger for the rest of the encounter.

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Tank: "No, I am fully DD skilled."

Me: "Then why did you list as a tank ?"

Tank: "Goes faster. If I only list as DD, it takes ages to find a group."

 

I hate people like this. :mad:

It's very disrespectful to your group members.

 

I once had a group for athiss, where nobody (except for me) wrote a thing other than hi (the tank didn't even write that) at the start, it was athiss sm and the tank was ninjalooting everything, after 5 tries to get a reaction from them, I had to leave.

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Maybe he felt like there's no need for any tactics on trash. I wouldn't be so bold to do that in ops, but in FPs, when I know it will make zero difference, I'll pull before tank without thinking twice.

 

Zero difference to you, irrespective of whether the tank and healer are having a hard time? You're playing in a group with set roles. It's extremely arrogant/ignorant to make the assumption that everyone's happy with you pulling.

 

I'm becoming less and less tolerant of DPS who chain pull. I don't mind the occasional pull but those who do it constantly deserve to be left to die. Believe me, it's not much fun chasing DPS who are chain pulling, trying to snatch aggro off them because they're impatient.

 

Then you were too slow in pulling, that's why it happened. Sure take your time before boss, but dont stand around before every pack, possibly asking "rdy?"

 

The tank dictates the pace. Don't like it? Enjoy queueing for another hour. I've seen DPS with this attitude running ahead pulling mobs with the tank still at low health and the healer's resource pool depleted. By all means, play how you like but don't start posting "where are all the tank?" threads on here when half your server has you on ignore. Your choice.

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So he can't be talking about Thrash-less rotation (which was not optimal BTW, as optimal was back the low-thrash rotation which would occasionally have a Thrash in place of Saber Strike) ...

 

This is all a moot point since 2.0 reduced the force cost of shock and thrash and you are correct that every rotation used at least some melee attacks, but for accuracy's sake:

Actually, KeyboardNinja proved that the Thrashless rotation was superior because it minimized the time between Force Lightnings w/ 3x Harnessed Darkness. ("Actually, it looks like the optimum is no Double Strike/Thrash at all, if the goal is to achieve TkT as frequently as possible." http://www.swtor.com/community/showpost.php?p=5464062&postcount=12)

So, a big jawagram 'nice try' to you for flexing your nerd muscles.

Edited by Whizle
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Actually, KeyboardNinja proved that the Thrashless rotation was superior because it minimized the time between Force Lightnings w/ 3x Harnessed Darkness. ("Actually, it looks like the optimum is no Double Strike/Thrash at all, if the goal is to achieve TkT as frequently as possible." http://www.swtor.com/community/showpost.php?p=5464062&postcount=12)

Completely thrashless rotation was not optimal as this rotation used less force than you could regain, allowing you to sometimes, maybe not often, but sometimes (when high enough on force, which could happen when there are a lot of attacks to be dodged/shielded), use thrash instead of saber strike. That post is kind of old. Try seeing what people did in 1.7

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Completely thrashless rotation was not optimal as this rotation used less force than you could regain, allowing you to sometimes, maybe not often, but sometimes (when high enough on force, which could happen when there are a lot of attacks to be dodged/shielded), use thrash instead of saber strike. That post is kind of old. Try seeing what people did in 1.7

 

lol...did you even read the post? "As you can see, DS is literally never used (within the bounds of rounding error)." (DS = double strike/thrash). "I'm still not entirely sold on the "thrash-less" rotation. However, it is categorically undeniable that it provides the best survivability." KeyboardNinja always provides sound math to back up his claims. All you've done is run off at the mouth.

1.7 didn't alter force costs....thanks again for playing.

Edited by Whizle
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Not what I said. Instead of worshipping one ancient post, see what people actually did.

 

What people actually do doesn't equal 'optimal.' There are lots of people who do content (and even clear it) doing things sub-optimally/inefficiently. Nothing happened to change kbn's math in 1.7.

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What people actually do doesn't equal 'optimal.' There are lots of people who do content (and even clear it) doing things sub-optimally/inefficiently. Nothing happened to change kbn's math in 1.7.

 

You really don't get it do you?

 

Even the post you linked says:

"The implication here is that Double Strike/Thrash usage only happens when regeneration spikes (due to an unexpected burst of m/r attacks)."

Which basically says that his Thrash-less rotation still uses Double Strike/Thrash.

 

But like I said, please go look at what people actually did.

 

The post you linked was from November 2012.

 

Here is a post from December 2012 (which, in case I need to spell it out to you, is a time AFTER the post you linked) from that very same person, and if you look at the combat logs he linked, they very clearly show that he is using Double Strike.

http://www.swtor.com/community/showpost.php?p=5537685&postcount=2

 

So much for that never using it at all.

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You really don't get it do you?

 

Even the post you linked says:

"The implication here is that Double Strike/Thrash usage only happens when regeneration spikes (due to an unexpected burst of m/r attacks)."

Which basically says that his Thrash-less rotation still uses Double Strike/Thrash.

 

But like I said, please go look at what people actually did.

 

The post you linked was from November 2012.

 

Here is a post from December 2012 (which, in case I need to spell it out to you, is a time AFTER the post you linked) from that very same person, and if you look at the combat logs he linked, they very clearly show that he is using Double Strike.

http://www.swtor.com/community/showpost.php?p=5537685&postcount=2

 

So much for that never using it at all.

 

Again, you're confusing what people actually do with what is optimal. You didn't make the comment that "all the cool kids use thrash." You said using thrash is optimal. Which was a factually incorrect statement until 2.0. Some tanks also used maul pre-2.0 (as the thread you linked indicates). That certainly wasn't optimal, but I guess your herd mentality thinks it ok. Go ahead and take solace in the fact that other people were doing it wrong to. Also if you look at kbn's logs, he wasn't using ds in his normal rotation. He only used it when there were breaks in action... or when kephess was downed by a pillar. ...but i wouldn't expect a sheep to understand those nuances.

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I just had a Group Finder FP run with a player queued as Damage. (this was Republic side, translations provided for Imperial players reference frame)

 

He was a Shadow (Assassin), spec'd Kinetic Combat (Darkness), using Combat Technique (Dark Charge). Every single pull, from start to finish, his rotation was:

  • stand 10 yards away
  • use Telekinetic Throw (Force Lightning) on cooldown
  • use Project (Shock) on cooldown
  • use Force Breach (Discharge) on cooldown
  • maintain Kinetic Ward (Dark Ward) religiously at 15 charges
  • stand there and do nothing else in-between these 4 cooldowns

 

Watching someone with a double-bladed lightsaber and rocks swirling around them stand outside melee range, never once swing their saber, and spam weak rock attacks was... really, really weird.

 

Damage was agonizingly low, fights took forever, but at least we had a Guardian DPS who really, really knew her stuff and carried us through (just barely) on tighter fights.

 

Naturally, he won all 3 pieces of Willpower gear that dropped. -.-

 

~~~

 

Anyway, I don't want to be negative and bashing or insulting confused players here. Instead, I'd just like to hear your stories about bizarre / crazy people you meet in Group Finder (or other groups) who make you go :confused: "Huh?? What?!" when you watch them playing.

 

It's honestly very cute / amusing, except when it gets you killed by enrage timers, etc. :p

 

I would have Vote Kicked the idiot. Thats NOT how you play Kinetic Combat... If he never once taunted then that "tank" is automaticaly vote kicked for stupidity. Atleast IMO. I have on my tank actualy put my taunts somewhat in my rotation (mind you my tank is a Vanguard/Powertech)

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Yesterday red reaper. We are waiting for the tank to show up and healer goes ahead and attacks the first group alone. 2 DPS intervenes because he is about to die. Tank catches up but 1 DPS dies. I tell the guy, dude you are the healer right? he says yes. next group he again attacks does 0 healing. 1 DPS dies I survive barely. And then they move to next group, he doesn't heal anybody. I say why did you join as a healer if you want to play dps? he answers because I can do both. and then tank intervenes and defend him. I find out at that point tank and healer friends and do this all the time. I say whatever and leave group Edited by tanerb
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ran into a guardian tank, in dps stance, dps gear, needed on EVERYTHING even the green trash loot that drops, didn't respond to any tells or groupchat. Tried to pull the entire room on 3rd boss of Esseles then pull the boss, FYI this was 50 HM. His gear was a mix of greens blues and purples, some had aim stat some had cunning, you get the picture.

 

Pulled the entire room then the boss. THEN the amazing happend, he acctually typed in group chat IN CAPS( a good lulz to me and my group) and said he was leaving because we sucked since he died immediately then we finished the room adds, WHILE THE BOSS was attacking us, and didn't rez him till after the fight and all 3 of us NEEDED on all the loot that dropped. We finished the encounter with my qyzen tanking which was SOO MUCH easier to heal lol.

 

Henceforth this person has been /ignored by just about everyone on shadowlands who has been unlucky enough to run groupfinder and find this person in your group. I imagine he /unsubbed.

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.He only used it when there were breaks in action

 

Not true.

 

It's the exact opposite.

 

Like the post you yourself linked (which you seemingly did not read) said: "The implication here is that Double Strike/Thrash usage only happens when regeneration spikes (due to an unexpected burst of m/r attacks)."

 

Pre 2.0 it was optimal to use Double Strike/Thrash at times when the tank gets hit a lot by attacks that can be shielded or avoided by defense, which causes them to regenerate more force than usual.

Not when there are brakes in action, since at those times the tank would gain less force.

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Henceforth this person has been /ignored by just about everyone on shadowlands who has been unlucky enough to run groupfinder and find this person in your group. I imagine he /unsubbed.

Wishful thinking, I'm afraid.

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To be mentioned here (not by name of course) or to maybe pick something up and advance in your class/playstyle is better, than hiding in a shell.
Yeah for sure. People in SWTOR are rarely mean about things, this isn't WoW where every group has That Guy™ who links his Recount every boss and then explains why this makes him a better human being than you.

 

Mostly it's just people raising eyebrows and maybe saying something if what you're doing is causing wipes / making the FP/Op impossible to complete.

 

I mentioned my story because it was really weird and amusing, not to intend maliciousness toward that person (or anyone else).

Edited by SW_display_name
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Awhile back I queued my merc up for HM Foundry - got a group with a Jug tank, sorc healer, and a sniper. We all loaded in, did convo, and headed to the airlock.

 

From that point it was like someone lit a firecracker in the butt-flap of the tank's armor - I've done some speedruns, but this was serious balls-to-the-wall moving. Healer almost wanted to bail and the sniper and I were doing all we could to get in attack range by the time he aggroed - even outran the healer more than a few times.

 

No one died, not even him;) Thus far best tanking job I've seen and one of the most fun I've had on a run:D

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Mando Raiders, boarding party:

 

Tank: I'll tank the droid.

Me: The droid is nonexistent

*Wipe 1, sage healer facetanking 3 of the 4 all fight.*

Me: Can you keep the bosses off of me so I can heal?

Tank: Sure.

*Wipe 2, sage healer facetanking 2 of the 4 all fight.*

 

Votekicked him, and he sends me this tell:

"I was using my AoE taunt on you.", followed up with "What do you mean use guard, I can't cast it on myself, only on other people."

 

-_-

 

*EDIT -- there was a lot more wrong with him than these two pulls, the previous healer bailed or so the DPS told me, and he went on some tirade at me about not giving people a chance to learn their class because I vote kicked him. I calmly told him that if I have to explain the core mechanics of his class to him, then I am just playing for him and he should talk to a more experienced tank or look up guides. He QQ'ed then /ignored me. Nothing of value was lost.

Edited by Battyone
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