I am looking for a sanity check, I have leveled a Guardian as Defense at launch and recently returned to SWTOR. I opted to roll a Jugg and out of habit began leveling as Immortal as old habits die hard. I'm very interested in the Vengeance spec, but I'm only level 24 at this point and although I run planet mishes, I primarily PVP and do FP. I also normally run solo, so no pocket healer in PVP unless I happen to stumble into one. All that being said...

1. Vengeance appears as though it relies on a few key abilities (Impale and Shatter), which I won't have for quite a while, does that matter? Should I wait until at least early 30s when I'll have Savagery and Eviscerate?

2. Is it viable to be DPS geared and simply respec into Immortal for FP while below 50-55? I realize it isn't ideal for the healer, but as an Immortal spec, I hardly make the healer work at all right now.

Thanks in advance for the feedback.

Heh both really. I'm more partial to immortal but leveling as Vengeance is just as good. At level 24 you already have your shien form which really does make a difference. Yeah you are right, all the goodies do come a bit later so you'll mostly scream, smash, vicious slash spam. Then again, we do that as immortal as well in the early goings. The good thing about getting shien form, aside from the (6% + 6%) dps bonus, is your usually swimming in rage, unlike leveling as a tank.

Leveling as immortal, there aren't any defense mods or enhancements to speak of till 40. Even then I'd wait till 50 and use the makeb stuff for tank gear. So just load up on might mods, armorings and hilt while stacking up on power. You'll still be fairly beefy with your shield, soresu form, invincible and taking the three points in single saber mastery. I'm pretty sure most players that level as tanks (who do FP's and alike) use a tank spec and shield with dps gear till around level 50. Rage management is kind of a PITA, but if you leveled as a guardian tank already it shouldn't be as much of an issue for you as it would for someone brand new to the class.

I really don't know about leveling in flashpoints...but I would assume that dps geared Immortal is enough to tank them all the way to 50ish, you might start investing in some tank gear as soon as you can though.

As Vengeance, leveling is really easy for me though. When I came back after a long break, I had a 31 Juggernaut. I just started to level him again and I seem to burn content before I am done leveling for the planet...I started Hoth at 35 and all the mobs were 38. All my gear was on level green armorings and whatever the latest blue hilt was. I am now 38, fighting 40-41s, the only thing I have upgraded was a few pieces of gear on my companion, my hilt, and got an orange off-hand (focus, generator, whatever it is). The rest of my gear is still what I was wearing at 35. I burn through missions faster than any other class so far (55 Assassin and Commando), and honestly, everything is really easy. The only problem I had was at 36, I fought a 40 gold...he got me low.

I think the game changes a great deal after you get Impale...if you can manage it until 30, the whole game changes for you. It changes again once you get Enraged Defense. Even in pvp, despite being on the low end level-wise, I still break top 3 in damage/kills everytime.

Vengeance is quickly becoming my favorite spec of any class so far, but I do understand the lure of insta-queues as a tank for flashpoints.

Thanks for the quick reply, that's what I needed. If the attack rotation isn't changing that much anyway I may as well try Vengeance, plus I just got Doc and having some rage would be nice.... I guess I felt like in solo PVP I get stranded if unless our healer is paying attention and in PVE planet/class questing I rarely, if ever pop my defensive CDs.

Thanks for the heads up on gearing as well, I will have to educate myself on all that in about 25 levels...

You can queue as a tank in vengeance spec (and a shield off-hand). The flashpoints aren't challenging enough to a point where your spec would make a significant difference pre-50, provided you have a semi-competent healer.

Granted, I've only tanked up to Foundry so far since my jugg isn't 40 yet, but I haven't ran into any significant issues tanking in veng spec.

You can queue as a tank in vengeance spec (and a shield off-hand). The flashpoints aren't challenging enough to a point where your spec would make a significant difference pre-50, provided you have a semi-competent healer.

 

Granted, I've only tanked up to Foundry so far since my jugg isn't 40 yet, but I haven't ran into any significant issues tanking in veng spec.

I'd probably switch specs for FP, unless I'm overleveled for the instance. Thanks for the feedback!

Thanks for the quick reply, that's what I needed. If the attack rotation isn't changing that much anyway I may as well try Vengeance, plus I just got Doc and having some rage would be nice.... I guess I felt like in solo PVP I get stranded if unless our healer is paying attention and in PVE planet/class questing I rarely, if ever pop my defensive CDs.

 

Thanks for the heads up on gearing as well, I will have to educate myself on all that in about 25 levels...

Yeah, the best thing about leveling as a tank first was just how much more rage I had when I leveled a vengeance Jugg. I couldn't get rid of it fast enough.

As far as gear, just take a peek through all the planetary comm vendors on the fleet. You'll notice not many of them have any defense, shield or absorb at all till around level 40 so I doubt anyone would say anything about being a tank in dps gear provided you're using a shield and in soresu form.

Yeah, the best thing about leveling as a tank first was just how much more rage I had when I leveled a vengeance Jugg. I couldn't get rid of it fast enough.

 

As far as gear, just take a peek through all the planetary comm vendors on the fleet. You'll notice not many of them have any defense, shield or absorb at all till around level 40 so I doubt anyone would say anything about being a tank in dps gear provided you're using a shield and in soresu form.

Well I'm definitely a role player in that I want to make sure I'm not gimping the group in any way, so as long as I am feeling tanky, I'm sure I'll be fine. Really appreciate the advice everyone.

Just wanted to weigh in since I have leveled just as you are describing. I have the field respec and if I am running class quests or PVP I run Vengence (sometimes Rage if I am bored)

I have almost all DPS gear, but since I am running a ton of FPs I acutally have a spare Chest piece that I keep updated with tank stats (started this at about 34ish) It was one of the +defense etc drops from a FP. So I keep that for tanking and use my other equipment as pure DPS. You dont really need to min/max stats until way later.

Just wanted to weigh in since I have leveled just as you are describing. I have the field respec and if I am running class quests or PVP I run Vengence (sometimes Rage if I am bored)

 

I have almost all DPS gear, but since I am running a ton of FPs I acutally have a spare Chest piece that I keep updated with tank stats (started this at about 34ish) It was one of the +defense etc drops from a FP. So I keep that for tanking and use my other equipment as pure DPS. You dont really need to min/max stats until way later.

Sweet, thanks for the info. I figured I'd set aside any tanky gear that I get from drops for this very purpose. Looks like a respec is in order tonight and I can start bathing in my spare rage....

Just been leveling my jugg and here is my opinion.

Vengeance sucks up to about level 22. Only once you have enough talent points to reach unstoppable is it worth using for general pve.

Before that damage is to low and our defence to week in my opinion.

I spent 2 points for the 20% damage bonus to smash and then leveled to about 25 in immortal.

I was tempted to stay immortal untill I had enough talent for impale in the vengeance tree but I made the swap when I had enough for unstoppable and it's been pretty good.

I do think immortal has an advantage for soloing elites but the vengeance in general is much quicker at dropping groups witch makes up 90% of the PVE experience I have come across.

I'm just about to hit 30.

Spent the weekend as Vengeance and never looked back. Burned through the 20's and hit 32 last night. Life is much easier after getting Impale, Vette and I just tear through PVE.

I agree that Rage or Immortal would probably be easier until the 20's, but I am still impressed with the DPS in PVE and PVP. I know it's been stated and restated, but I cannot help but smile each time I watch someone in PVP blow their Flashbang, AOE KB, or stun of choice as my Ravage chews them up.

For any doubters, it's worth visiting this spec at least for leveling and low level PVP, I won't speak of end game until I get there.