original post

Thanks. That was everything i hoped it would be. It was entertaining to read.

I don't think people should just drop their ideas and longings just because George Lucas approved or helped or even wrote the thing. For me, the man has done two things right (even they had issues). Star Wars (no episode IV crap) and American Graffiti. He got lucky and then let toy sales dictate the rest of his output. Look at everything in the original that got changed in some stupid ways.

Luke and Leia being brother and sister... its apparent why that wasn't the original plan. In fact, I believe the plan was the sister to be introduced in the third film but related they were.

Han shot first. Of course he did. Then Lucas got stupid for some reason that didn't even make sense and still couldn't make the blaster fire look right. This is one of the more idiotic things ever. People loved that he shot first. But Lucas... ah, if you special edition the original print away then maybe everyone will begin to believe that's the way its always been.

Obi-Wan Kenobi is one of the greatest things to happen in the prequel trilogy. But in the originals actually he's a bold faced liar who seems to want to set Luke to kill his own father. Gee, so Jedi and Sith really ain't no different. He killed your father, Luke. You must kill him. Don't think. Do it. Trust me.

How about how Luke ended up on Tatooine which Darth Vader had never heard of since he's not Anakin Skywalker so doesn't have his memories. Or C3PO. I think they addressed that in a recent comic from what I heard but good gosh why did it have to be addressed at all if you don't do stupid things.

I loved how in his mind Anakin goes dark to save the galaxy and his wife (he then tries to choke to death and believes he did) first act is to kill some kids that don't even talk clearly yet because new Master says so. Really? I thought oh how sweet that kid is in the film oh my god what are you doing!! And people idolized that whiny little child when he's in armor and breathes like he has OCPD for years before but you have to make him a villian and you spent two movies wasting your time for special effects.

And the Jedi. Oh my god how stupid are they. Not just about Palpatine but about everything. How does anyone not think all those looks he gives Padme like just any minute he's gonna take her on the floor in front of everyone. Well, no... you protect her because your a Jedi and you know the rules. Even some of the things Palpatine does and something doesn't feel right? Well he seems to be twirling a mustache he doesn't have constantly in front of you! There's a scene where I swear Padme is seeing exactly what a fake he is and she then just follows along with his idea because why would this power hungry man in front of you ever stoop to manipulation. Badly all the way around. I thought you weren't supposed to see it not pretend like you don't.

I probably could go on and on but my point is, yes, I agree people have it wrong in my mind what is and isn't Star Wars. But not because Lucas gave his stamp so they should. He gave his stamp on anything that made him a buck. Telling Harrison Ford who wanted his character killed off and told but he couldn't sell a toy of a dead character. You don't need to hitch your wagon to that name. Some of the best work was done by those he put in charge or hired to do things than what he directly had a hand in. See, all it takes is one idea... then you too can be rich enough to take the credit for all the good stuff you never did.

I don't think people should just drop their ideas and longings just because George Lucas approved or helped or even wrote the thing. For me, the man has done two things right (even they had issues). Star Wars (no episode IV crap) and American Graffiti. He got lucky and then let toy sales dictate the rest of his output. Look at everything in the original that got changed in some stupid ways.

 

Luke and Leia being brother and sister... its apparent why that wasn't the original plan. In fact, I believe the plan was the sister to be introduced in the third film but related they were.

 

Han shot first. Of course he did. Then Lucas got stupid for some reason that didn't even make sense and still couldn't make the blaster fire look right. This is one of the more idiotic things ever. People loved that he shot first. But Lucas... ah, if you special edition the original print away then maybe everyone will begin to believe that's the way its always been.

 

Obi-Wan Kenobi is one of the greatest things to happen in the prequel trilogy. But in the originals actually he's a bold faced liar who seems to want to set Luke to kill his own father. Gee, so Jedi and Sith really ain't no different. He killed your father, Luke. You must kill him. Don't think. Do it. Trust me.

 

How about how Luke ended up on Tatooine which Darth Vader had never heard of since he's not Anakin Skywalker so doesn't have his memories. Or C3PO. I think they addressed that in a recent comic from what I heard but good gosh why did it have to be addressed at all if you don't do stupid things.

 

I loved how in his mind Anakin goes dark to save the galaxy and his wife (he then tries to choke to death and believes he did) first act is to kill some kids that don't even talk clearly yet because new Master says so. Really? I thought oh how sweet that kid is in the film oh my god what are you doing!! And people idolized that whiny little child when he's in armor and breathes like he has OCPD for years before but you have to make him a villian and you spent two movies wasting your time for special effects.

 

And the Jedi. Oh my god how stupid are they. Not just about Palpatine but about everything. How does anyone not think all those looks he gives Padme like just any minute he's gonna take her on the floor in front of everyone. Well, no... you protect her because your a Jedi and you know the rules. Even some of the things Palpatine does and something doesn't feel right? Well he seems to be twirling a mustache he doesn't have constantly in front of you! There's a scene where I swear Padme is seeing exactly what a fake he is and she then just follows along with his idea because why would this power hungry man in front of you ever stoop to manipulation. Badly all the way around. I thought you weren't supposed to see it not pretend like you don't.

 

I probably could go on and on but my point is, yes, I agree people have it wrong in my mind what is and isn't Star Wars. But not because Lucas gave his stamp so they should. He gave his stamp on anything that made him a buck. Telling Harrison Ford who wanted his character killed off and told but he couldn't sell a toy of a dead character. You don't need to hitch your wagon to that name. Some of the best work was done by those he put in charge or hired to do things than what he directly had a hand in. See, all it takes is one idea... then you too can be rich enough to take the credit for all the good stuff you never did.

That's all good and all, but, really, what makes you the defining expert of what is or isn't SW? That you're willing to post a wall of text proclaiming that you know better? What about "CC19", content creator 19, who creates something that flies in the face of what you think SW is, but, since he/she/it actually created something with the intent of it being SW, is just as convinced that it is SW. What about CC20? CC200? This is exactly why the EU was cut from canon, from what I can tell, because it was all over the place, and unsustainable. Even the OP acknowledges this in the opener, where he's lamenting the loss of the EU from canon, and then goes on to annihilate part of the EU.

Good, bad or indifferent, Lucas was the final say. It was his IP, after all. Mistakes were certainly made, but, in the end, it was his IP to do with as he saw fit, whether "Random guy on the internet" approves or not. The problem wasn't cutting the EU from canon, it was allowing fan fiction to become canon in the first place. It should have always been just what it is: Fan fiction. So you're no more qualified to say what is or isn't SW than I am, and frankly, that's a good thing because really, I'm not that big of a fan. I like it well enough, but I never bothered with the fan fiction that sprung up around it, just like I never bothered with the fan fiction that sprung up around Baldur's Gate, or Dragon Age, or Mass Effect. I was certainly aware of it's existence, but if I wanted real, actual lore, it wasn't even on the radar as a source.

What most people forget, is that most of the whiners against this KOTFE and KOTET stuff, was based from George Lucas himself Who Created Star Wars. So, anyone here that says these stories are not Star Wars is a liar and does Not know Star Wars, because this IS Star Wars like it or not..

Go on then, show me a Lucas, or other canon, Source that mention the Eternal Throne. Because looking through the 50+ Books and 50+ Graphic Novels on my shelf I can't think of one of them that mentions it.

Go on, I double dare ya!

Knights of the Fallen Empire and Eternal Throne is NOT Star Wars.

All The Best

What a thread! Some good points, some not so much.

Way I see it, if you're having fun, carry on. If you're upset about what it could have been or should have been, yeah, that takes the luster off and maybe it's not the place for you anymore. Been there, done that. I'm genuinely sorry for those who have reached that point. I guess I'm lucky in that I haven't and still enjoy (most of) the game, warts and all.

They will eventually have to make KOTFE and KOTET canon, because of two reasons : Umbara and Shae Vizla. We know there will be a new planet in game, Umbara, it appeared in Clone Wars ( which is canon, by the way) and whatever we do in the past must synchronize with whatever is in the future.

Shae Vizla : she could be very well the ancestor of Pre VIszla , otherwise i have no idea how exactly are they going to justify "House Viszla" and a FEMALE Mandalore as successor of Artus Lok ( Mandalore the Vindicated).

I forgot this post existed.

I stand by everything i said in OP. And i'd like to add that, even if the traitor story line was kind of obvious, it served the most important purpose of all. SELF DESTRUCT THE ETERNAL FLEET SO I CAN GO TO SLEEP NOW.

And now were back to Pub v Imp and its nice. Also decapitations.

I expected it would be the Gree who would invade the Galaxy, after testing both Republic and Empire on Illum. Not an "Eternal Empire" no one ever heard of even though its members claim its over 1000 years old.

I wish just once the player character would slap some Zakullian upside the head and says "Get this through your think skull. Your peace and plenty was bought at the cost of war through out the Galaxy. You are parasite feeding off the hard work of citizens of the Galactic Republic and Sith Empire. Nothing you had was yours. It was stolen from me, my friends and my enemies. And I am taking it back!: Now shut up! "

First off, not Eternal. The Commander isn't immortal and so the Alliance will essentially die with them. But mostly, just stop with the Eternal crap. Everything cant be eternal. It doesn't make any sense. Less sense than Koth's randomly applied loyalty to Zakuul's supreme nutcase and the perfectly boring population of his pointless and conveniently advanced planet. Oh by the way, this is a rant.

 

Granted Valkorian would never even imagine an option where NO ONE sits on the ET, but seriously? has no one else thought "Hey why not just have the fleet self destruct? Problem solved and i don't have to babysit it."

 

It's not like that is an impossible idea, not one a power crazed pseudo-god would think of but still.

 

Speaking of, so the EF trashed all these worlds back in the day right? Well how come they never clashed with the Infinite Empire? Or the Celestials. Or the Gree. This is a non-canon game after all. (thanks Disney, you suck by the way.) So non of these all powerful civilizations ever encountered this apparently unstoppable force. But some backwater warlord managed to capture one of their ships and use it against them. Sure.

 

if you played the Warrior and Inquisitor Stories, there is some indication that Vitiate, had his own thing going on, outside the Sith Empire. And that it was heavily alien tech based. But this whole second empire thing is still really dumb. I mean he at the very least believes he is a god. and then of course he does really random stuff that more or less contradicts everything he says about himself. so maybe he is a god, just not a very good one.

 

On to my favorite topic of companion rage, Koth.

 

This guy is the token everything for 2 expansions. He is so incredibly annoying and incompetent, that you forget hes also some kind of super agent, but hes also completely pointless. Apparently they wanted me to hate someone more than Skadge. And impressively they succeeded.

 

A list then.

 

Worships the emperor. Like super hard, devoid of reason or conscience.

never actually listens to anything anyone else says. ever.

Seems to think the Gravestone is his. I still have no idea at what point he came to that conclusion.

Really, Really, Really wants Arcann gone. Dead. Donezo. Won't actually help you do it. Ever.

Is apparently competent to install a quantum bomb, but too stupid to consider how that might result in the total destruction of "his" ship.

Is utterly and completely surprised when, after telling him about a hundred times that you are going to kill him, you actually kill him. like what is that about? Did he think i was kidding?

 

I LOVE this game, its Star Wars. or it was. Not so much these days.

 

The force is not Light and Dark huh? Well that's interesting, non-canon SW story lets look at the other times thats been tried in the Legends (god i hate myself for even using that term) EU...

 

Mostly Jacen Solo became Caedus. The most pointless and stupid excuse to make three separate multi-book series in the old EU. Its dumb, and contradicts what made SW great in the first place.

 

And even Valky don't buy it for reals!!!

 

He's just lying to get what he wants cause he's a stupid old man who wants to be god.

 

if i think of anything else ill add it later.

 

if you read to this point, your either a huge nerd, or your a masochist.

 

EDIT

 

I FORGOT ABOUT VAYLIN

 

Not really, but i forgot to rant about her. From the get go, and i mean from when Lana rescues you from Carbonite, Vaylin is refered to by all NPC's with this kind of primal dread. But when you meet her it turns out she is basically just a child throwing a temper tantrum. So in order to convince us that she is indeed far too powerful to face alone, we are dragged through all sorts of nonesense. Regardless when we ultimately get to face her we discover that she does in fact have a supreme power. I call it force whining. and it has defeated my will to play with sound on.

 

otherwise, shes not anything special.

Oh why I didn't see this before ??

ITS GOLD!!! GOLD AND PRICELESS AND 1000000% True!!

BW should laminate this and put it on their wall, everytime they come up with a 'Great Idea''

Hilarious, just made my day! Thanx OP!

Hey OP! if you ever wanna expand on your rant, I would love to hear ACT 2 about how ''Killing your companion is equal choices in a story and toward the vilain'' XD

I forgot this post existed.

 

I stand by everything i said in OP. And i'd like to add that, even if the traitor story line was kind of obvious, it served the most important purpose of all. SELF DESTRUCT THE ETERNAL FLEET SO I CAN GO TO SLEEP NOW.

 

And now were back to Pub v Imp and its nice. Also decapitations.

Wow, it’s so good this thread was necroed, I love all the rants! I’m so happy I could finally return to where I belong and hopefully this whole Eternal **** is mostly over. Can we maybe drop a nuke on Odessen?

Also, does anyone know if it’s worth turning to CS about bugged companions? I killed Koth ofc, but somehow he’s back and now I can’t do anything about him (Khem is also bugged on my SI)

I expected it would be the Gree who would invade the Galaxy, after testing both Republic and Empire on Illum. Not an "Eternal Empire" no one ever heard of even though its members claim its over 1000 years old.

That would be pretty cool. It would be hard to justify the Gree as typical star wars villains though; they don't do a lot of moustache-twirling.

The eternal saga was basically the Dark Empire of this game. You thought the emperor was dead? Well here's an identical one that improbably appeared and has been doing a lot of side-projects throughout the length of the character's stories. Like Dark Empire, the 'eternal' expansions had good art, and that's about it. Otherwise it was a canon-breaking, cheesy, meandering mess. Actually, there are enough comparisons to DE to make me wonder if that was actually what BW had in mind when they wrote these expansions.

First off, not Eternal. The Commander isn't immortal and so the Alliance will essentially die with them.

It is also entirely possible that the Force user - Commander could find a way to gain immortality in the manner of Valkorian, or at least biological. All that remains for him is not to allow himself to be killed.

Everything cant be eternal. It doesn't make any sense.

That's just not true.

Granted Valkorian would never even imagine an option where NO ONE sits on the ET, but seriously? has no one else thought "Hey why not just have the fleet self destruct? Problem solved and i don't have to babysit it."

 

It's not like that is an impossible idea, not one a power crazed pseudo-god would think of but still.

Yes, it is possible, in theory. But why? Why give up the most powerful fleet in the galaxy, the presence of which gives almost unlimited power? My SW will never undestand it.

I subscribe 100% OP words. Hope the writers of all the Zakuul nonsense rot in hell forever.

I pretend KotFE and KotET simply didn't happen. I just absolutely, profoundly hate Zakuul, the Eternal Fleet AND the Eternal Alliance. When we got the choices to return to our factions I was already spamming the dialogue option to rejoin before it even showed. In my head, we have the amazing Ziost arc and then we immediately begin with Ossus, the story content in between simply reads [REDACTED] in my mind.

I pretend KotFE and KotET simply didn't happen. I just absolutely, profoundly hate Zakuul, the Eternal Fleet AND the Eternal Alliance. When we got the choices to return to our factions I was already spamming the dialogue option to rejoin before it even showed. In my head, we have the amazing Ziost arc and then we immediately begin with Ossus, the story content in between simply reads [REDACTED] in my mind.

Absolutely the same. I hate everything that has word "eternal" in it. Frankly, if not for lightsabers, i would never even think "Eternal Empire" is from Star Wars universe. I too, was waiting to finally rejoin original faction and kiss this ******** alliance goodbye. Shame though, that they didn't write it out of the story and universe completely.

Wow, it’s so good this thread was necroed, I love all the rants! I’m so happy I could finally return to where I belong and hopefully this whole Eternal **** is mostly over. Can we maybe drop a nuke on Odessen?

 

Also, does anyone know if it’s worth turning to CS about bugged companions? I killed Koth ofc, but somehow he’s back and now I can’t do anything about him (Khem is also bugged on my SI)

What they did to companions with the story was absurd and annoying enough - but the bugs caused by KotFE / KotET royally f*cked companions - I have some that should be dead, some that are missing, some that lost all their influence - and as far as CS, I've submitted tickes multiple times over the past few years about companion issues to no avail.

Shame though, that they didn't write it out of the story and universe completely.

I'm glad they didn't.

You have the choice to go back to your faction, and people who actually like their Alliance have the choice to keep it. Everyone should be happy with that, so why do you want to take away from other people when you already have what you wanted ?

I'm glad they didn't.

You have the choice to go back to your faction, and people who actually like their Alliance have the choice to keep it. Everyone should be happy with that, so why do you want to take away from other people when you already have what you wanted ?

well they kinda did though no ? I mean the fact they making us choose who to side with like 3 time over lol

(I'm assuming that the stuff in Kotfe and Kotet don't count anymore..cose...reasons)

Also, while they supposedly bringing us back our 'factions' , the stupid 'Title' of 'COMMANDER' just aint removed..and I'm like Grrrrrrrr come on! get ride of it already!

add to that....going back wasn't that of a good deal anyway....its like they do it on purpose so you stick with the lousy alliance.....

I'm glad they didn't.

You have the choice to go back to your faction, and people who actually like their Alliance have the choice to keep it. Everyone should be happy with that, so why do you want to take away from other people when you already have what you wanted ?

As much as I hate the Alliance, I am glad for the people who do like the concept that they have the choice to remain within it. I remember how I felt when I was forced to form the Alliance on my toons, being separated from my original faction. It severely impacted my experience playing this game in a very negative way and that's putting it mildly, so I absolutely wouldn't wish that feeling on those who want to keep the Alliance. It's why I am happy both sides of the debate get to pick the option they like the most

As much as I hate the Alliance, I am glad for the people who do like the concept that they have the choice to remain within it. I remember how I felt when I was forced to form the Alliance on my toons, being separated from my original faction. It severely impacted my experience playing this game in a very negative way and that's putting it mildly, so I absolutely wouldn't wish that feeling on those who want to keep the Alliance. It's why I am happy both sides of the debate get to pick the option they like the most

I'm really glad we got a choice here, so that anyone can either go back to their previous occupation and get their old titles back or stay with their Alliance, and i think we should all be happy with that choice.

I'm really glad we got a choice here, so that anyone can either go back to their previous occupation and get their old titles back or stay with their Alliance, and i think we should all be happy with that choice.

Absolutely agreed! It deserves praise that Bioware listened to the players in that instance and didn't enforce only one version or vision onto everyone. Now, if only the devs could listen to players in regard to crafting and gearing, we'd all be happy as clams.

Absolutely agreed! It deserves praise that Bioware listened to the players in that instance and didn't enforce only one version or vision onto everyone. Now, if only the devs could listen to players in regard to crafting and gearing, we'd all be happy as clams.

Yup

Yeah would be nice, getting tank gear when i don't have any tank is frustrating...

If they could do something about the walker and droid fights that would be nice too... I have a lot of character who haven't played through KOTFEET+ and i'd like to be able to play them without having to skip directly to Ossus as i don't like the default choices most of the time...

A list of some of the problems with KotFE and KotET:

 

1: Everything you did before no longer matters, because this super awesome third faction came through and took everything over. Then why did we bother?

 

2: It's not Star Wars. Sure, some of the characters wave glowsticks around, but literally nothing else about KotFE and KotET is at all recognizable.

 

3: It's also not interesting. Why should I care about these Eternal Idiots? Give me one good reason.

 

4: Valkorion being Vitiate makes no sense. Imagine if he weren't Vitiate at all, and KotFE and KotET were about a power struggle between the two (due to the natural conflict between Vitiate's omnicidal goals and Valkorion's imperial ones)? It could be a war between the Sith Empire and the Eternal Empire, with the Republic running interference in a desperate bid to keep the peace and stop the conflict from spreading into Republic space. You get thawed out by your faction, and are sent on a Jedi Knight-style mission to kill one of the Emperors and break the stalemate. Maybe the Empire kills Valkorion while the Republic has to kill Vitiate again.

 

5: The concept I described above still kind of sucks, because it necessarily relies on the Eternal Empire being a thing. They're a completely unforshadowed third faction which has a fleet powerful enough to trash both the Republic and the Empire, they use the Force in a way that's supposedly different from Jedi and Sith but also so much more powerful that the space wizards we already had can't hope to stand against them, they're ruled by a guy who was already way too powerful, he apparently has kids who are very nearly as stupidly overpowered as he is, and I'm stuck teaming up with a bunch of Imp scum for (at least) the third time just because they got scared of the third faction of the week.

 

6: The timeskip is used as an excuse to completely ignore all prior continuity under the flimsy excuse that it's been five years. Suddenly, the Republic is evil, the Empire is at least weak enough that they pretend to be good for your benefit, all of your companions are missing, and honestly? Everything about all of this sucks and was exactly what most of us spent our class stories working to prevent. The class stories that were much more interesting than this one.

 

7: Lana Lana Lana Lana Lana Lana Lana Lana! Lana Lana Lana Lana? Lana. Lana Lana Lana!

 

8: Arcann is supposed to be intimidating, but instead he's a whiny not-Sith-who-acts-so-much-like-a-Sith-that-they-might-as-well-have-made-him-a-Sith. So basically, he's just some wannabe punk. Hello, Kylo Ren.

 

9: Vaylin is not intimidating either. She's whiny and childish, and her abilities really don't seem to exceed those of the average Force user by that much, and yet she's treated like this really scary boogeyman. Boogeywoman? I guess that's not a word.

 

10: Who the crap is this Koth guy, and why does he keep following me around?

 

11: Even if you're an Inquisitor, Acina still can't have an "accident" in KotET Chapter 2. Come on! I want to be the Emperor!

 

12: It keeps calling things "eternal" which, under the story's own rules, are objectively not. Like the Eternal Alliance. Which is made of a bunch of mortals using leftovers from Zakuul to fail at keeping peace, and stops existing within at least a few hundred years.

 

13: Why do we have to use the command phrase on Vaylin? It feels like a dark side choice the story forgot to let me not make.

 

14: Speaking of which, we're supposed to... sympathize with Vaylin or something because she had a bad childhood. The woman kills millions of people on a whim! But then we cooperate with her abuser and take his advice because clearly that will improve the situation. See point 13.

 

15: Justice for Valkorion! Your carbonite tomb awaits! Justice for Valkorion! Your carbonite tomb awaits! The enemy is everywhere! Go go go! I will destroy you!

 

16: Oh no. It's a bunch of Skytroopers. How am I going to fight them? I guess I'll just have to use my AoE to massacre them all instantly. Oh no. It's a bunch more Skytroopers. How am I going to fight them?

 

17: Seriously, stop making enemies aggro from across the map. The classes' abilities are set up so that you shoot first, Han Solo-style. While my obsessive nature sometimes compels me to clean out an entire area of enemies, I'd rather not be forced to fight an entire area's worth of enemies in succession.

 

18: Why do you insist on showing me scenes to which my character is not party? It's completely inconsistent with all prior content.

 

19: I am sick to death of those fricking monster things on Odessen. Because whenever I run into them, I have to wait around for them to de-stealth before I can kill them, at which point they go down just as easily as any other enemy, so what purpose does the mechanic serve?.

 

20: RNG.

Yes, all of this.

This is a non-canon game after all. (thanks Disney, you suck by the way.)

As much as I dislike what Disney is doing to our beloved Star Wars, KOTFE/KOTET are the reason I'm glad SWTOR is not canon. It goes too far off the rails with its "third and more powerful way" anti-Light Side and -Dark Side rhetoric, the conflict between which is the whole point of Star Wars, and as you rightly point out the contradiction of Zakuul's very existence as a galactic superpower unbeknownst to (yet massively more powerful than) everyone else, never having even encountered the Rakata or Gree.

Everything else in SWTOR I would love to see canonized. I'm very skeptical of non-Lucas-originating lore, but KOTOR and its ensuing timeline had really established themselves well up until KOTFE came along. Had it gone back to the ceasefire and ensuing war after Revan without the Zakuul interlude, it would have been the perfect candidate for a new canon era with films and everything.