leto_cleon Posted December 6, 2013 Share Posted December 6, 2013 2.5 info with damage debuff on boss applying before stat/armor mitigation (DF/DP average at 6k dps, assumes arkanian RW relic procs at 23s, DF RW at 43 s): shadow Defense 526 Shield 940 Absorb 1216 pre armor squish 0.482105691 total squish 0.28503891 pre heals/absorb dtps 1710.23 post heals dtps 1710.23 damage per HP 3.508292955 spike 0.051336322 weighted relic base diff =ark =DF def proc 0.2790 0.2651 0.2838 0.0061 5290 5200 abs proc 0.2801 0.2663 0.2850 0.0049 6573 6461 jugg: Defense 1057 Shield 940 Absorb 685 pre armor squish 0.585751481 total squish 0.307396701 pre heals/absorb dtps 1844 post heals dtps 1711.05 damage per HP 3.253125346 spike 0.04549478 weighted relic base diff =ark =DF def proc 0.3022 0.2904 0.3064 0.0052 6210 6104 abs proc 0.3032 0.2914 0.3074 0.0042 7715 7584 vanguard: Defense 613 Shield 1236 Absorb 833 pre armor squish 0.568857017 total squish 0.290074849 pre heals/absorb dtps 1740 post heals dtps 1740.45 damage per HP 3.44738609 spike 0.045144393 weighted relic base diff =ark =DF def proc 0.2847 0.2725 0.2890 0.0054 5888 5989 abs proc 0.2858 0.2735 0.2901 0.0043 7316 7442 Interesting... in terms of the DTPS levels, the Arkanian Warding relic is slightly better than the Dread Forged one on Shadows and Guardians. Vanguards are the opposite. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VoW_LugNut Posted December 6, 2013 Share Posted December 6, 2013 Update 12/4/13: Added post for pcp data: http://www.swtor.com/community/showpost.php?p=6996995&postcount=75 Don'tcha know that stuff is bad for ya? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
_REDRUM_ Posted December 6, 2013 Share Posted December 6, 2013 Shadow tank has the same stat distribution despite having more DR post 2.5? Can you explain the reason? It's not obvious to me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
THoK-Zeus Posted December 6, 2013 Share Posted December 6, 2013 (edited) Shadow tank has the same stat distribution despite having more DR post 2.5? Can you explain the reason? It's not obvious to me. Well the "value" of defense rating (less damage prevented from an defended hit compared to an unmitigated hit compared to 2.4) and the "value" of shield and absorb rating "decreases" more or less the same way. Can't really explain it good , but the stats don't really change (perhaps 1 or 2 single points at best). Edited December 6, 2013 by THoK-Zeus Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kuciwalker Posted December 6, 2013 Share Posted December 6, 2013 Shadow tank has the same stat distribution despite having more DR post 2.5? Can you explain the reason? It's not obvious to me. Since there are no M/R I/E attacks, any attack that can be defended or shielded is mitigated by armor. This means that the relative value of defense vs shield/absorb is unchanged by armor DR, and since we are only trading those stats off against each other the allocations don't change. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dipstik Posted December 6, 2013 Author Share Posted December 6, 2013 Interesting... in terms of the DTPS levels, the Arkanian Warding relic is slightly better than the Dread Forged one on Shadows and Guardians. Vanguards are the opposite. ah, that is most likey a mistake. i will double check and update. will update the pcp to pvp lol. and, changes to what happens after defense and shield rolls will not affect stat distribution. that is why there were no stat distribution changes due to 2.5. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aetideus Posted December 6, 2013 Share Posted December 6, 2013 heres some pvp info: full obroan gives 630 shield minimum and a budget of 1787 (without relics), no defense minimum (except from relic) for shadows and vanguards (both which want zero). this assumes 40% m/r k/e, 40% f/t k/e and 20% f/t i/e. no 90% accuracy attacks. maybe i should assume pvp dpers have 5% accuracy. 7k incoming damage per second. shadow: Defense 0 Shield 744 Absorb 1043 pre armor squish 0.493112319 total squish 0.403561433 pre heals/absorb dtps 2824.93 post heals dtps 2824.93 damage per HP 2.477937481 spike 0.055240042 required hps 2640.121522 TTK 16.74417685 jugg: Defense 260 Shield 685 Absorb 841 pre armor squish 0.591053107 total squish 0.426151005 pre heals/absorb dtps 2983 post heals dtps 2849.72 damage per HP 2.346586043 spike 0.052670474 TTK 14.36819998 PT: Defense 0 Shield 1087 Absorb 700 pre armor squish 0.554912056 total squish 0.408129335 pre heals/absorb dtps 2857 post heals dtps 2856.91 damage per HP 2.450203683 spike 0.060011606 TTK 14.7012221 the 4% from telekinetic throw might be a bad assumption. let me know what you think would be better assumptions and ill put them in the model and spit out some new numebrs. According to a lot of people, 4% might occur less often than a date with Kate Moss. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dipstik Posted December 6, 2013 Author Share Posted December 6, 2013 im open to plugging in whatever seems reasonable. i need to know what accuracy pvp dps typically have. in terms of the number of stacks of the 1% damage reduction buff, no idea. should i just calc for 2% or 0? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aetideus Posted December 7, 2013 Share Posted December 7, 2013 (edited) im open to plugging in whatever seems reasonable. i need to know what accuracy pvp dps typically have. in terms of the number of stacks of the 1% damage reduction buff, no idea. should i just calc for 2% or 0? Possibly 0 stacks, 91M/101F accuracy for tank. 100M/110F for dps. Edited December 7, 2013 by Aetideus Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DogEyedBoy Posted December 7, 2013 Share Posted December 7, 2013 All tanks have 3% accuracy within their trees. Assassins will typically not be without this as the skill also provides a boost to damage reduction and is required to progress up the tank tree. Juggernauts and Powertechs are more likely to run without taking these accuracy boosts as they aren't in their tanking trees, but they are also very accessible, being on the first (PT) or second (Jugg) line of a DPS tree. Why you would run with 100%/110% accuracy in PvP I don't know. Nobody but tanks and Inquisitors have more than 5% defense, and even with 100%/110% accuracy you're still going to miss tanks. Most DPS I know take just one or two accuracy enhancements on top of their 94%/104% base. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JowyBlight Posted January 28, 2014 Share Posted January 28, 2014 So on my Vanguard tank(full 78 Dread Forge) i've been running an Obroan reactive warding and DF Shield Amp. I've been seeing alot of people saw in the forums that even Van/Pt should be using the redoubt equivalent instead of the shield amp, but doesn't make sense to me since this class of tank is so shield and Absorb heavy. Am I wrong? Or should i not bother caring much. There is still so confusion on the tank relics these days. I know I still alot have talked to many tanks that still not sure why reactive warding is BIS given its long Cooldown (40 secs). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leto_cleon Posted January 28, 2014 Share Posted January 28, 2014 (edited) There is still so confusion on the tank relics these days. I know I still alot have talked to many tanks that still not sure why reactive warding is BIS given its long Cooldown (40 secs). In terms of the Reactive Warding relic, the Arkanian one is better due to the actual shorter lockout timing of 20s. This means you are getting -740 damage around every ~23s instead of the Dread Forged -1360 every ~43s. Once your dtps exceeds ~2000, the Shield Amplification relics are better than reactive warding. Thok is better at explaining this last bit. Edited January 28, 2014 by leto_cleon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KeyboardNinja Posted January 29, 2014 Share Posted January 29, 2014 So on my Vanguard tank(full 78 Dread Forge) i've been running an Obroan reactive warding and DF Shield Amp. I've been seeing alot of people saw in the forums that even Van/Pt should be using the redoubt equivalent instead of the shield amp, but doesn't make sense to me since this class of tank is so shield and Absorb heavy. Am I wrong? Or should i not bother caring much. There is still so confusion on the tank relics these days. I know I still alot have talked to many tanks that still not sure why reactive warding is BIS given its long Cooldown (40 secs). The fortunate redoubt relic has a higher contribution to mean mitigation than the shield amplification, even for vanguards/powertechs. The class may look very shield/absorb heavy, but if you hunt through the tree, you'll find a lot of bonuses to defense as well. Basically, BiS relics for all tanks are the Reactive Warding and Fortunate Redoubt relics. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dipstik Posted January 29, 2014 Author Share Posted January 29, 2014 if it wasnt for the static defense that only the def proc relic gives, it would be about equal to the absorb proc relic. bu because of the static def on the relic, it comes out a bit ahead. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MillionsKNives Posted February 19, 2014 Share Posted February 19, 2014 The fortunate redoubt relic has a higher contribution to mean mitigation than the shield amplification, even for vanguards/powertechs. The class may look very shield/absorb heavy, but if you hunt through the tree, you'll find a lot of bonuses to defense as well. Basically, BiS relics for all tanks are the Reactive Warding and Fortunate Redoubt relics. Currently I'm running UW Fortunate Redoubt and Shield Amplification. I got my first DF drop, should I be getting Fortunate Redoubt and then Reactive Warding, or the other way around? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dipstik Posted February 20, 2014 Author Share Posted February 20, 2014 if you can get the arkanian reactive warding relic (from oricon story), get that since it is the best relic out of all of them. the next best relic is the DF reactive warding, followed by the DF fortunate redoubt. i would suggest using your DF token on a DF reactive warding, and finishing the oricon story line to get the arkanian reactive warding. if u got the wrong relic when you completed the story, then get the DF reactive warding Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
swanthon Posted February 21, 2014 Share Posted February 21, 2014 Correction: dipstik meant get the DF Fortunate Redoubt IF you can get the Arkanian Warding relic. If you can't get the Arkanian Warding relic because you've already blown your token from the DF/DP quest, then get the DF Warding relic first. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MillionsKNives Posted February 21, 2014 Share Posted February 21, 2014 if you can get the arkanian reactive warding relic (from oricon story), get that since it is the best relic out of all of them. the next best relic is the DF reactive warding, followed by the DF fortunate redoubt. i would suggest using your DF token on a DF reactive warding, and finishing the oricon story line to get the arkanian reactive warding. if u got the wrong relic when you completed the story, then get the DF reactive warding Unfortunately I wasted that on a SA for my rarely used off-spec, figuring that the Arkanian would be useless. Looks like I'll get the reactive warding then. Thanks. Correction: dipstik meant get the DF Fortunate Redoubt IF you can get the Arkanian Warding relic. If you can't get the Arkanian Warding relic because you've already blown your token from the DF/DP quest, then get the DF Warding relic first. I figured Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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