To be honest, I am not certain. Evidently there is a discord where the developers (or one) speaks with others. I am sure it is rather exclusive and not just anyone can get in. It has been mentioned a few times in stream. However, it is of little interest to me as people talk a lot about grand plans or ways to address problems. I am only interested in what they actually do.

 

 

**OFF TOPIC**

 

Are these forums set to UTC? I am UTC -5 (we're in winter) and it's still off. We set to Paris time?

https://discord.gg/swtor

I am only interested in what they actually do.

Exactly. Actions speak so much louder than words, and at times, it does seem like we get a lot of lip service. Especially when it comes to effective, positive changes in the PvP community.

Wanted to chime in and say the team is paying attention to and monitoring feedback.

 

To everyone in this thread, I also wanted to give a heads up that I will be moving this thread to the PvP sub-forum.

Suuuuurrrrrreeee you are ;););)

How long have assassins been complaining about the garbage new ability that is so horrible no one even puts it on their bars? How long have we been complaining about phantom stride/holotraverse being broken? How long have we complained about the operative roll stuck bug?

I guess you only pay attention to #nerfAssassin threads, because you nerfed them pretty quickly huh.

Suuuuurrrrrreeee you are ;););)

 

How long have assassins been complaining about the garbage new ability that is so horrible no one even puts it on their bars? How long have we been complaining about phantom stride/holotraverse being broken? How long have we complained about the operative roll stuck bug?

 

I guess you only pay attention to #nerfAssassin threads, because you nerfed them pretty quickly huh.

JackieKO has only recently joined the team in this role late last year to be a better conduit between us and the devs on the forums. I think you need to give her a break and let her show you she is doing what she says. So far I’ve only seen a positive influence from Jackie being active on the forums. The last thing we want or need is people attacking her integrity and we end up in the same old situation with no communication again.

JackieKO has only recently joined the team in this role late last year to be a better conduit between us and the devs on the forums. I think you need to give her a break and let her show you she is doing what she says. So far I’ve only seen a positive influence from Jackie being active on the forums. The last thing we want or need is people attacking her integrity and we end up in the same old situation with no communication again.

While I agree with you on some points, the fact is that for the moment, peoples are often waiting for actions rather than words. We all remember how hyped we were when Keith announced frequent roadmaps, or when Musco opened threads about class balance. And we've all been disappointed after seeing how it all went bad really quickly.

I do get why some peoples may be upset when they look at the class balance since 5.X.

I mean, funny stuff is that Deception Sin got nerfed soon after 6.X dropped because having a burst able to outclass Mercenary's defensive abilities was too much (which is a sentiment I do agree seeing its poor implementation). However, it feels really bad seeing how peoples complained about Mercenary since 5.X dropped, and nothing worthy has been done to even acknowledge it on the dev side. How many threads were there about Mercenary and Mara being too strong in 5.X without anything done to change it for almost 2 years ? How many was there about Deception Sin in 6.X until they nerfed it ? The situation isn't so different, but two similar thing got treated really differently without any explanation from the dev team, which led to a lot of resentment.

All joke aside, and because I shouldn't be advocating for a fight that isn't worth it, I think that we're all happy that Jackie is here, but we're also speaking with our past experiences. We need to see things change, and too much communication cannot be a bad thing considering how silent the devs have been since a really long time.

Like, I heard that they removed huttball for optimization reasons (good gods they finally listened). When will this get fixed ? Will it ever get fixed ? What about class balance/unbalance ? Set bonuses that are just here to give a false impression of choice but are so bad that nobody would take them because it would be trolling ? We're all waiting for answers since 6.0, some of us since before even. We may be a bit intimidating to Jackie, but I can only hope that she'll put through and stick with us longer than the other devs have been.

JackieKO has only recently joined the team in this role late last year to be a better conduit between us and the devs on the forums. I think you need to give her a break and let her show you she is doing what she says. So far I’ve only seen a positive influence from Jackie being active on the forums. The last thing we want or need is people attacking her integrity and we end up in the same old situation with no communication again.

I don't know if that particular post was an attack on Jackie. I took it more as an attack on "the team", that they may monitor the feedback BUT based on history we assume they

1) Don't care

2) Won't change anything

I don't know if that particular post was an attack on Jackie. I took it more as an attack on "the team", that they may monitor the feedback BUT based on history we assume they

1) Don't care

2) Won't change anything

Completely agree. I am not sure which would be worse, adjusting every couple of weeks to minor tweaks, or going months and months without any adjustments at all.

They're in a difficult position, to be sure. No matter what they do they will be derided, excoriated, and execrated in any number of ways by some who were negatively affected. The thing is, most of us are fairly reasonable human beings. We don't need the game to be perfect, we simply need to know that the developers care. Sure, the more they respond, the more some will make demands, but that is no excuse to let the game languish in a bad state because of indifference or havering.

A careful evaluation every couple of months with some adjustments would go a long way to improving PvP morale because at least then we'd have hope that a bad situation for a particular class would see improvements in fairly short order. Allowing each class to shine for months as opposed to YEARS on end would be refreshing in my view.

Allowing each class to shine for months as opposed to YEARS on end would be refreshing in my view.

When was the last time PTs got any real love? Last time I PvP'd on mine, they were the easiest to global because they have the worst defensive CDs in the game, and because of their burst potential, they are often the first to be targeted. AFAIK, it's been that way for YEARS.

When was the last time PTs got any real love? Last time I PvP'd on mine, they were the easiest to global because they have the worst defensive CDs in the game, and because of their burst potential, they are often the first to be targeted. AFAIK, it's been that way for YEARS.

This wouldn't be an issue if other class that had super strong cooldowns allowing them to survive a PT burst didn't have any damage. Or maybe if defensive cooldowns weren't on every class. We're dps class after all, not tank class. But some still have better cooldowns than the actual tanks.

This wouldn't be an issue if other class that had super strong cooldowns allowing them to survive a PT burst didn't have any damage. Or maybe if defensive cooldowns weren't on every class. We're dps class after all, not tank class. But some still have better cooldowns than the actual tanks.

That's all true, but the point is that PTs were left behind and that hasn't been addressed by Bioware in years. I've made several reasonable suggestions in years past how they can balance PTs with the other classes in PvP, but nothing has changed. They claim they are listening to player feedback, etc., but then you have situations like this. This is one of dozens of reasons why PvP in this game is in such a sorry state.

JackieKO has only recently joined the team in this role late last year to be a better conduit between us and the devs on the forums. I think you need to give her a break and let her show you she is doing what she says. So far I’ve only seen a positive influence from Jackie being active on the forums. The last thing we want or need is people attacking her integrity and we end up in the same old situation with no communication again.

:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D

Ever heard the phrase "fool me once, shame on .." nvm, you obviously haven't. The point is, this is the same old song and dance they have given us for a while. If they were serious, we would see results, not more useless words.

I mean, funny stuff is that Deception Sin got nerfed soon after 6.X dropped because having a burst able to outclass Mercenary's defensive abilities was too much (which is a sentiment I do agree seeing its poor implementation). However, it feels really bad seeing how peoples complained about Mercenary since 5.X dropped, and nothing worthy has been done to even acknowledge it on the dev side. How many threads were there about Mercenary and Mara being too strong in 5.X without anything done to change it for almost 2 years ? How many was there about Deception Sin in 6.X until they nerfed it ? The situation isn't so different, but two similar thing got treated really differently without any explanation from the dev team, which led to a lot of resentment.

In 3.0 they nerfed deception into the bottom and after that they nerfed hatred 3 times in a row, and afterwhich when hatred became garbage, did they unnerf the unnecessary things like making death field 10m? nope.

In 4.0 they made assassins the least mobile class in the entire game, and when they saw this class's dps had the audacity to actually be decent in PvE for the first time ever (seriously), they nerfed damage 3 times before even looking at the ridiculous PTs.

In 5.0 they took away PW because reasons, they took away crushing darkness because reasons, they took away force lightning because reasons, after which they nerfed damage and took away 30% DR while stunned because reasons (to be fair, they took it away from PTs and juggs as well). All this before even looking at mercs and snipers who were the most OP class in the history of this game (barring 1.0).

in 6.0 they gave us the most useless ability in history and unnecessarily overnerfed the only good set bonus. (btw, I never used it, only played against it and it was not that OP. It only seemed OP when people class stacked, but class stacking is an issue with many classes atm).

I don't know, but I'm sensing a pattern here.

That's all true, but the point is that PTs were left behind and that hasn't been addressed by Bioware in years. I've made several reasonable suggestions in years past how they can balance PTs with the other classes in PvP, but nothing has changed. They claim they are listening to player feedback, etc., but then you have situations like this. This is one of dozens of reasons why PvP in this game is in such a sorry state.

1.X, 2.X, 3.X, 4.X, 6.X. You were bottom tier (and only in solo ranked, one lousy game mode almost no one plays) for one expansion, get over it.

I hope you can see by the little changes that we've been doing around the forums is indicative of what we're trying to do to strengthen that bridge.

Thanks Jackie, I can see the work you are doing on the forums, I hope the community and devs can reciprocate enough to make the bridge building easier

1.X, 2.X, 3.X, 4.X, 6.X. You were bottom tier (and only in solo ranked, one lousy game mode almost no one plays) for one expansion, get over it.

I'm referring to unranked, not ranked, which I haven't played since 8v8 Ranked.

As for PTs, how exactly were they buffed in 6x? 5x? They were nerfed in 4x. When was the last time their advanced classes received a buff? I ask because I honestly don't remember at this point. I'm not trying to make this thread about PTs, because frankly there are bigger issues with PvP than just one class, but my point is that if Bioware can ignore an advanced class for that long, what indication do we have that anything else will change?

I'm referring to unranked, not ranked, which I haven't played since 8v8 Ranked.

 

As for PTs, how exactly were they buffed in 6x? 5x? They were nerfed in 4x. When was the last time their advanced classes received a buff? I ask because I honestly don't remember at this point. I'm not trying to make this thread about PTs, because frankly there are bigger issues with PvP than just one class, but my point is that if Bioware can ignore an advanced class for that long, what indication do we have that anything else will change?

They got a buff about 3/4 of the way through last year. I’m not sure if the exact date. If I remember correctly, part of it had to do with set bonuses (I could be wrong cause PTs aren’t one of my mains).

With the introduction of tacticals, amplifiers and the many gear set bonuses, Bioware seem to be focusing on buffing or nerfing those instead of directly messing with the classes as much. So if you don’t have the right pvp “meta” set bonus gear or tacticals, it can be worse than in the past when someone was running low stats or empty shells.

The majority of what I've read so far throughout the forums is valuable feedback even if the tone that's being written isn't sunshine and rainbows. I am empathetic to how players feel and I am learning a lot about their experiences. My only ask is that when players do offer feedback that it is constructive regardless if it is positive or negative in nature. People can be express their opinion even if it's negative; I just ask that it be done respectfully and that we remember there are human beings on the other side of the monitor =]

May I suggest or ask something then, is maybe adding a bit, tiny bit more feedback threads instead of scrolling through what players are saying or rambling on the forums. Currently, the only "official feedback thread" that we have is PTS related, one of them (amplifier UI) being super far down the list of priority for the majority of players. This could be a really simple or hard stuff, but making more "PvP Unranked feedback" or "[Advanced class] feedback" threads could help you a lot in gathering informations and establishing communications, as it is certainly easier to answer in the same thread than posting all over the place sometimes. Or it would at least help players understand that you're only here to help !

A pleasure to know that you're still reading threads as well, I and many others are eager to engage in more... Let's say "two-sided" discussions with the Bioware dev team.

I'm referring to unranked, not ranked, which I haven't played since 8v8 Ranked.

 

As for PTs, how exactly were they buffed in 6x? 5x? They were nerfed in 4x. When was the last time their advanced classes received a buff? I ask because I honestly don't remember at this point. I'm not trying to make this thread about PTs, because frankly there are bigger issues with PvP than just one class, but my point is that if Bioware can ignore an advanced class for that long, what indication do we have that anything else will change?

in 4.X they not only had insane damage they also had 30m range for many of their attacks for their AP advanced class. If you did things right, there was a 25% chance you can global someone in 1 GCD (we did the numbers). If you didn't you would do over 75% damage to your enemy. Their range was nerfed, but the damage continued to be insane (I remember because that was when I started playing my "PT", I played VG on a different server before).

In 5.X they weren't really nerfed, just the defenses for other classes were buffed to the degree where PT became the first target. They also removed the 30% DR while stunned from assassins, PTs and juggs making them easier to stunlock and global. PTs still did insane damage and were very good in group ranked and unranked if they had a healer. In 4dps vs 4dps, they were horrible because they were the first target and didn't have enough defenses.

in 6.X they were given a very good DCD and their burst was increased. And there is a tactical that gives them super burst during explosive fuel. Also, pyro pt damage was buffed to a level where it is really good again. I personally love playing pyro more than AP now.

Also, I know this is a pvp board, but according to star parse PTs have been the best performers against some of the hardest hm bosses during from 4.X onward.

in 4.X they not only had insane damage they also had 30m range for many of their attacks for their AP advanced class. If you did things right, there was a 25% chance you can global someone in 1 GCD (we did the numbers). If you didn't you would do over 75% damage to your enemy. Their range was nerfed, but the damage continued to be insane (I remember because that was when I started playing my "PT", I played VG on a different server before).

 

In 5.X they weren't really nerfed, just the defenses for other classes were buffed to the degree where PT became the first target. They also removed the 30% DR while stunned from assassins, PTs and juggs making them easier to stunlock and global. PTs still did insane damage and were very good in group ranked and unranked if they had a healer. In 4dps vs 4dps, they were horrible because they were the first target and didn't have enough defenses.

 

in 6.X they were given a very good DCD and their burst was increased. And there is a tactical that gives them super burst during explosive fuel. Also, pyro pt damage was buffed to a level where it is really good again. I personally love playing pyro more than AP now.

 

Also, I know this is a pvp board, but according to star parse PTs have been the best performers against some of the hardest hm bosses during from 4.X onward.

I appreciate the breakdown. I've admittedly been out of the loop.

What was the very good DCD they were given in 6x? Was it specific to an advanced class? From looking at mine (who's AP), Kolto Overload is still the poor man's version of what Mercenaries get, and Energy Shield is still the same "meh" DCD it's always been. Are you talking about Power Yield for the 40% armor increase, which doesn't help against yellow damage that bypasses armor? As for Tacticals, I'm not sure which one you are referring to. AFAIK, the best two are Energized Blade or Powerlode, at least for AP. Maybe I'm missing something here?

I think the last few posts exemplify one of the issues I've raised. The discussion of set bonuses, tacticals, who got nerfed and who's now OP, etc. is a great discussion for Ranked PvP. The fact that those are issues in unranked PvP seems off to me.

And as a side note for PvP, sometime I wonder how unranked PvP would look if you eliminated stuns, stealth, etc. and just had straight up fighting - offensive stats vs. defensive stats. No more being able to spam stuns like MM or stealth guarding objectives may make for more interesting fights. Not necessarily advocating for that, just curiousity.

I think the last few posts exemplify one of the issues I've raised. The discussion of set bonuses, tacticals, who got nerfed and who's now OP, etc. is a great discussion for Ranked PvP. The fact that those are issues in unranked PvP seems off to me.

I disagree. As I've mentioned earlier, I quit ranked after Bioware killed 8v8 Ranked. But some of the most intense, fun PvP matches I've ever had in this game were unranked WZs. And balance issues matter just as much there as they do in the Ranked formats.

And for those feeling nostalgic about PTs, as I am, here's an old guild video I dug up. Excuse the poor video quality.

I appreciate the breakdown. I've admittedly been out of the loop.

 

What was the very good DCD they were given in 6x? Was it specific to an advanced class? From looking at mine (who's AP), Kolto Overload is still the poor man's version of what Mercenaries get, and Energy Shield is still the same "meh" DCD it's always been. Are you talking about Power Yield for the 40% armor increase, which doesn't help against yellow damage that bypasses armor? As for Tacticals, I'm not sure which one you are referring to. AFAIK, the best two are Energized Blade or Powerlode, at least for AP. Maybe I'm missing something here?

Power yield is a great DCD. it starts at +40% armor and the more you get damaged the higher it goes. 5 stacks puts you at 200%. Also yellow damage doesn't bypass armor, it bypasses defense. You are thinking about internal damage, which is pretty rare. So for example against an operative, only volatile substance will do full damage; shiv, backstab, lacerate will do reduced damage. For a DCD that only has a 1m CD that is pretty darn good. Madness sorcs (lol) and to a much lesser extent lightning sorcs are the bane of that DCD.

EDIT-I'll trade it for deflection (an actually useless DCD) anytime, any day, any place.

Also, yes I believe it is powerlode. you can do some very serious damage with it.

Power yield is a great DCD. it starts at +40% armor and the more you get damaged the higher it goes. 5 stacks puts you at 200%. Also yellow damage doesn't bypass armor, it bypasses defense. You are thinking about internal damage, which is pretty rare. So for example against an operative, only volatile substance will do full damage; shiv, backstab, lacerate will do reduced damage. For a DCD that only has a 1m CD that is pretty darn good. Madness sorcs (lol) and to a much lesser extent lightning sorcs are the bane of that DCD.

 

EDIT-I'll trade it for deflection (an actually useless DCD) anytime, any day, any place.

 

Also, yes I believe it is powerlode. you can do some very serious damage with it.

Gotcha. I was referring to elemental damage, primarily, which isn't mitigated by armor. Pyrotech PTs are a good example of that. And yes, Powerlode increases burst potential as it allows a PT to do Energy Burst (with 4 stacks of energy lode) twice in a row.

Thanks for the explanation.

Gotcha. I was referring to elemental damage, primarily, which isn't mitigated by armor. Pyrotech PTs are a good example of that. And yes, Powerlode increases burst potential as it allows a PT to do Energy Burst (with 4 stacks of energy lode) twice in a row.

 

Thanks for the explanation.

yeah pretty sure pyrotech is the only one that can do some serious damage with elemental damage that people play. Forgot about that one, even though I play it lol. So madness sorcs (which are just no) and pyrotech are pretty much the bane of that DCD.