Jump to content

Where's all this talk of 40k+ HP coming from?


Taleek

Recommended Posts

I keep seeing people post on the forums that a min/maxed tank in 2.0 is going to have like 40k+ HP and I'm really not sure where all this talk is coming from. Is it even possible to get that much endurance, and if so, why would you want to?
Link to comment
Share on other sites

it's easily possible but imo that's far from min/maxed.

The tanks with 40k hp (i have 35k at the moment and have thrown out a lot of endurance) have neglected all other tank stats to maximize their endurance

 

(i'm currently only talking about the juggernaut, the assa should be able to get his stats up and have that much life)

Edited by Never_Hesitate
Link to comment
Share on other sites

I keep seeing people post on the forums that a min/maxed tank in 2.0 is going to have like 40k+ HP and I'm really not sure where all this talk is coming from. Is it even possible to get that much endurance, and if so, why would you want to?

 

Stacking endurance augs, they can probably make it, but that would sacrifice a lot of mitigation as a trade off.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

it's easily possible but imo that's far from min/maxed.

The tanks with 40k hp (i have 35k at the moment and have thrown out a lot of endurance) have neglected all other tank stats to maximize their endurance

 

That's what I thought, thanks. So these people are silly like I thought :p

Link to comment
Share on other sites

could you please post links to those topics?

fully HP augmented for endurance and maxed endurance but minimal tank stats doesnt count :rolleyes:

unless you only want to go pvp 'extra healers hp pool'

14 endu augments = 32 endu * 14 = 448 extra endurance, so briefly, when tank normally would have 36k hp, he will get about 41k

 

don't judge tank by his hp!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

It's hard to say since tanks will jump up in health as they get the high endurance 69 gear and then drop down a bit with the 72 gear. I think that you can do all the new content with 35k as long as you use the correct cooldowns, of yours you can have 1 high health tank and 1 high mitigation tank in your raid but lets hope that content won't evolve into that.
Link to comment
Share on other sites

I'm already in the mid-36k range with my HP as a mitigation-itemized shadow tank. Part of this comes from the fact that shadows use the 31B mods, which gives us a lot more endurance than the other tanks in our best-in-slot builds. Once I'm fully geared up, it wouldn't surprise me if I was over 38k HP. 40k would almost certainly require augmenting for endurance, which would be a mistake.
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Yea my Shadow in mostly 69s with 2 piece of 66 gear has 37k HP. so i could see 40K + being doable with all 69s and a few endurance augments + datacrons (fleet and maceb too). Also including the large increase in endurance stims got going from exotec to nano, its entirely doable.
Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 2 weeks later...
Stacking endurance augs, they can probably make it, but that would sacrifice a lot of mitigation as a trade off.

 

 

On my Juggernaut tank, I have 18% defense, 38% shield and 38% absorb. I have an armor rating of 9478, and after i get into my rotation, im at 52% damage reduction. I am currently not augmented at all (actually in Vanilla swtor augments for shield/absorb.) Im fairly close to fully modded out in 72 armor/mod/enhancements. Having said this, with my fortitude stim on, im at 39,548 hp. The other tank in our raid (sin tank, pretty much equally geared and better itemized) has 41,824 hp with a fortitude stim on. On the PTS, my juggernaut had almost 41k hp and our sin tank had almost 43k hp, and neither of us had a single augment nor were we even close to properly itemized.

 

I realize that my shield/absorb is fairly low, but im going to be augmenting for those stats, you get entirely enough Endurance from the mods. I also have yet to get the +10 Endurance datacron from Makeb

Edited by Padheannis
Link to comment
Share on other sites

so my guardian in pretty much fully optimized (imho) arkanian is at 33k HP stimmed although to be fair i still use the 66 enhancements due to their increased defensive stats. Switching those enhancements (i don't want to loose defensive stats to gain end /cry) around would get me another 1.7k HP. So call it 35K on the outside. my defensive stats are 1069 defense 745 shield and 460 absorb. I also use a defense proc relic (yay guardians).

 

all this to basically say that i really don't see a guardian at over 40k knowing what he's doing

 

Also to the poster above, how do you get to 53% damage reduction... In combat i get to 50% pretty much exactly. Are you giving up your set bonus? are you in full UW?

Edited by ThomasCool
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Im fairly close to fully modded out in 72 armor/mod/enhancements.

 

There is a *massive* difference between being fully modded out in *good* mods/enhs (i.e. the stuff that drops in FPs and Ops; often the good mod/enh only comes on 1-2 pieces of gear, to boot) and being fully modded out in *bad* mods/enhs (i.e. the stuff you buy with comms).

 

Comm gear is pretty much *universally* high End and painfully low Endurance for tanks. Token and drop gear are the actual high mitigation options. If you're packing HP in the 40k+ region, it's because you're stacking Endurance via comm gear and/or using Endurance augs. *Both* of those things are bad.

 

I was running a pug Ops last night and the other randoms I was with thought that the other tank they grabbed, who had 8k more hp than me, was better geared based purely upon his hp. Of course, they completely missed the fact that my DR was 1.5% higher, Defense chance was 3% higher, Shield chance was 5% higher, and Absorb was 5% higher.

 

High hp for a tank is, like it's always been, just a bad tank's way of demonstrating their epeen. A good tank is only going to have marginally more hp than a DPS because *real* tanking is about mitigation, not hp.

Edited by Kitru
Link to comment
Share on other sites

40k health is doable with full mitigation augments, good enhancements, and Underworld ear, implants and relic, and all the endurance datacrons. Here's a 40440 HP theroretical build of my Sin tank that I use to run numbers with. An identically geared PT would have the same, and an identically geared Jugg would have slightly under 40k as they don't have the 3% HP talent.

 

A lot of HP is lost from that build if you use EWH relics, Veracity ear/implants, or unlettered mods. As much as 5k health less from just those changes. You can also gain another 1k health from Verpine Ear/Implants.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I was running a pug Ops last night and the other randoms I was with thought that the other tank they grabbed, who had 8k more hp than me, was better geared based purely upon his hp. Of course, they completely missed the fact that my DR was 1.5% higher, Defense chance was 3% higher, Shield chance was 5% higher, and Absorb was 5% higher.

 

Similar anecdote. I ran a HM TFB last night (well, part of one anyway, people got all cranky and tired and wanted to sleep. Suckers.) with a PUG Assassin tank with about 41k HP stimmed.

 

I run about 33.5k HP stimmed with current gear (mainly due to the fact that my raid group has been short members and hasn't really pounded out a ton of 2.0 content yet, so mostly 30B mods from FPs/comms and a mix of 28 GSI-found Immunity and 30 HM FP enhancements).

 

Said tank was also significantly overshooting on Defense (even moreso than myself) and very low on Shield/Absorb.

 

In his defense, his guild has about 4 members and he usually PUGs everything, so he intentionally sets up with a massive buffer to help accommodate bad PUG healers.

 

My raid group doesn't have bag PUG healers.

 

Both healers were less than thrilled at how much more damage the HP-built tank took in comparison to myself, and how much more attention he required to avoid dropping like a sack of beans in spite of his massive HP buffer.

 

As I said in another thread here, I totally understand the point of building for HP if you don't have reliable healers and have a good justification for why you don't have them, but put into a situation where you do have them, the shortcomings of prioritizing HP over mitigation very quickly become apparent.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

As I said in another thread here, I totally understand the point of building for HP if you don't have reliable healers and have a good justification for why you don't have them, but put into a situation where you do have them, the shortcomings of prioritizing HP over mitigation very quickly become apparent.

 

In my pugging experience, even when you're dealing with the potential for bad healers, you don't want to overvalue Endurance to the extent that commendation gear ends up forcing you to do. The best way to deal with pug healers is to use and abuse CDs with abandon, especially as a Shadow: mitigate the big hits *before* your healer is forced to bring you back up. At most, you would want ~2k more hp than I would normally recommend for the given FP: just enough to provide a few seconds of cushion time for bad healers to react to big hits with their big heals but enough mitigation that their heals are still effective.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

so my guardian in pretty much fully optimized (imho) arkanian is at 33k HP stimmed although to be fair i still use the 66 enhancements due to their increased defensive stats. Switching those enhancements (i don't want to loose defensive stats to gain end /cry) around would get me another 1.7k HP. So call it 35K on the outside. my defensive stats are 1069 defense 745 shield and 460 absorb. I also use a defense proc relic (yay guardians).

 

all this to basically say that i really don't see a guardian at over 40k knowing what he's doing

 

Also to the poster above, how do you get to 53% damage reduction... In combat i get to 50% pretty much exactly. Are you giving up your set bonus? are you in full UW?

 

I have my set bonus, both 2 and 4 piece, and im almost completely in 72 mods/enhancements/armoring (read UnderWorld) i have the arkanian shield proc relic and the arkanian defense proc relic, when those are proccing, im at 52.4 ish% damage reduction. so, for about hafl of every minute im at that damage reduction, and the rest, im just under 51%. (these numbers are not exact, because they work of percent chance of the relic proccing.) I am not hard to heal, i use my cds, in fact, our other tank seems to take a bit more damage than i do.

 

Also, the sorc healer in our raid has just over 33k hp, and so do both our sniper dps, just to put into perspective

Edited by Padheannis
edited for clarification
Link to comment
Share on other sites

i have the arkanian shield proc relic and the arkanian defense proc relic, when those are proccing, im at 52.4 ish% damage reduction.

 

Those relics don't increase your DR at all. The shield relic increases your Absorb and the defense relic increases your Defense. The only things that are going to affect your DR are CDs, talents/buffs (re: Guardian Slash), armor rating, and adrenal.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

There is a *massive* difference between being fully modded out in *good* mods/enhs (i.e. the stuff that drops in FPs and Ops; often the good mod/enh only comes on 1-2 pieces of gear, to boot) and being fully modded out in *bad* mods/enhs (i.e. the stuff you buy with comms).

 

Comm gear is pretty much *universally* high End and painfully low Endurance for tanks. Token and drop gear are the actual high mitigation options. If you're packing HP in the 40k+ region, it's because you're stacking Endurance via comm gear and/or using Endurance augs. *Both* of those things are bad.

 

I was running a pug Ops last night and the other randoms I was with thought that the other tank they grabbed, who had 8k more hp than me, was better geared based purely upon his hp. Of course, they completely missed the fact that my DR was 1.5% higher, Defense chance was 3% higher, Shield chance was 5% higher, and Absorb was 5% higher.

 

High hp for a tank is, like it's always been, just a bad tank's way of demonstrating their epeen. A good tank is only going to have marginally more hp than a DPS because *real* tanking is about mitigation, not hp.

 

I have the 72 set bonus armorings, so there for I would just guess that these are token drops. also, if you read my post, i stated that i was in vanilla swtor augments for shield/absorb, i do not have any current augments in my gear.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I have the 72 set bonus armorings, so there for I would just guess that these are token drops. also, if you read my post, i stated that i was in vanilla swtor augments for shield/absorb, i do not have any current augments in my gear.

 

All you said in your original post was "72 armorings", which can mean either Verpine *or* Underworld gear. Without confirmation of set bonuses, I generally default to *not* having the set bonus, especially considering when someone has a crapload of HP.

 

As to augs, augs comprise roughly 25% of your total potential mitigation budget. Using old augs means that, instead of getting the full 100% potential mitigation budget, you're only getting ~87.5% (old augs are slightly better than half as good as the new purple augs), which, considering the almost pitifully low level of your Def/Shield/Abs (18/38/38 is *terrible* as far as mitigation goes), means that, even when you swap to 55 augs, you're *still* going to massively Endurance heavy.

 

Yes, you'll get to 40k hp with the gear as it's straight up listed because there is *way* more Endurance than you actually need on most pieces of tank gear, especially on the enhancements. That does not mean that you *should* have 40k hp if you know what you're doing. Remember, I said "good" mods/enhs v. "bad" mods/enhs, not "set v. comm" gear. There *is* some set gear that has *terrible* itemization on it. Pretty much *everything* you get needs to be tweaked to be anything but varying degrees of painfully suboptimal.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

On my Sin tank fully stimed I have 35k health. I'm fully optimized as far as I can go in the 69gear (dungeon drops/Arkanian) My Mitigation stats are 23% Def/35.8% Shield (55.8 with Dark Ward up)/43.7% Absorb (51.7% with 8 stacks of Dark Bulwark). I don't see myself getting past 40k health in full 72's if I'm still optimizing my Mitigation stats. Edited by XisscVekno
Link to comment
Share on other sites

considering the almost pitifully low level of your Def/Shield/Abs (18/38/38 is *terrible* as far as mitigation goes), means that, even when you swap to 55 augs, you're *still* going to massively Endurance heavy.

 

I just want to point out that it's a *terrible* exaggeration to call those numbers "pitifully low." Completely maxed out mitigation gear gets you to around 21/39/35. He already stated that he's not fully augmented/itemized so he has room to improve. But a difference of -3/-1/+3 from the MAX AMOUNT POSSIBLE can hardly be considered pitifully low.

 

This is all assuming that we're talking apples v apples here, and that he wasn't counting his relic procs in those original numbers.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I just want to point out that it's a *terrible* exaggeration to call those numbers "pitifully low."

 

I don't see it as an exaggeration so much as a window into my notions of itemization budgets. To me, anything below ~2200 is low; under 2000 is almost unthinkable. For BiS, you should be pushing into the realms of an itemization budget of 2500 (my goal BiS is actually 2506 total).

Link to comment
Share on other sites

×
×
  • Create New...