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Dual Spec: Let's Talk about it.


Spoonuser

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I think allowing a multi-spec system is fine. For example:

 

1 spec for PVE dps

1 spec for PVP dps

1 spec for PVE tank or heals

1 spec for PVP tank or heals

 

This would be a 4 spec multi-spec system. This would allow any character to freely switch between any of the roles he/she could fill, and take away the tediousness of having to do an entire respec and reallocation of skill points any time you want to fill a different role. I would not be against still being charged for the respec as you switch preconfigured layouts so long as I don't have to go to the fleet and then spend 10 minutes allocating points and redoing my hotbars.

 

The one thing I hope BioWare never does is allow dual speccing or multi speccing across advanced classes. Sorcs are sorcs and assassins are assassins. It needs to stay that way.

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Dual specialization is amazing and I'm glad they are adding it. Not to the extend that RIFT did it - that was absurd. But being able to have a tank spec and a PVP spec on my powertech would make me a happy panda. Or a heal spec and a dps spec so I can solo farm content on my operative while leveling and then go heal some PVP?

 

Why is that a bad thing?

 

Why should I have to spend time farming just to enjoy my character?

 

It's not. Games should be fun. Dual spec hurts NOBODY, and I haven't seen a convincing argument yet other than the anti-carebear argument. And that argument holds no water.

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Seeing the debate is still over whether or not you want it I'll just step in and say ... again:

 

You know it is coming and they are working on it right now right?

 

They have stated this quite clearly.

 

.. yet the debate rages on 0.o

 

It gives people something to do... this place would be kind of boring if there wasnt a topic to talk / rank about

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Up until recently, I was very strongly against dual spec. I was in the class of people that liked certain classes being more rare, and people having to grind a toon to have that class.

 

For example, if healers were the rare class...I felt that healers should be rewarded by keeping healers rare, and not letting anyone just respec and dilute the pool of real healers...thus taking some glory away from those dedicated few.

 

But after playing SWTOR for this long, and seeing how you need specific roles in raids, it makes sense to allow people to change. Back in the EQ1 days, you would just bring every single person to the raid. Well that doesn't fly anymore.

 

Lots of people in our guild made their toon with the intention of being a tank. Well, we do 16m raids and our GM is a tank....so we really only ever have a need for 1 more tank. It sucks for all the other tanks because they need to respec to DPS if they want to come along.

 

And lastly, im an Arsenal Merc but on random weeknights ill PvP as a healer for a few hours as a fun change of pace. I'll also occasionally heal during a raid if the normal Sorc healers can't all make it.

 

Dual spec. Bring it.

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For me, the ONLY two things about dual speccing is that players MAY not know how to play the secondary spec that s/he rolled, and that they most likely will not have the proper gear for their secondary spec, especially at endgame.

If dual specs are allowed, players will have a tendency to make a healer/tank/dps spec JUST SO they can get into FP's/ops. That's even if they don't have the proper gear/stats, or if they have absolutely NO idea what they are/will be doing.

 

But other than that, dual speccing is VERY benificial to most players and the community itself.

 

- Players will enjoy how the other specs for their advance class works, without re-rolling the same content all over again. Been there, done that. I mean, I've made TWO sages just to experience the dps and heals specs. AND NO, IT'S NOT FUN.

 

- Of course dual speccing should, and again, SHOULD only be within the same AC. Specs and builds between different AC's are very very different, and if you want to try the other spec, you would really need to re-roll that character and start from the beginning so you can gradually learn the AC-specific skills and mechanics. But for different specs within the same AC, you would essentially have the same skills that are just enhanced by some talents.

 

- I still haven't maxed out the levels for both of my sages, and as much as I want to level them more, I'm getting bored by technically using the same skills and doing the same quests. I also made a lowbie shadow tank/dps but that, I've enjoyed. I really loved the new mechanics for the consular: going stealth, being more melee, tanking, etc.. And playing a Shadow really makes you see the same content differently than that while playing as a Sage. I was surprised on how the experience changed even if it was the same Consular questing and storyline content. But no, nothing much changes if you reroll the same AC. Dual speccing will save you alot of everything.

 

- It will allow dynamic playstyles for a lot of players. More often than not, this will help people that are LFG/LFM, if they get a decent player that really knows how to heal/tank/deal damage. (But we already have that in ther game, skill resets.) Yes, I know that, but for the sake of the majority of the playerbase and the community, lets ask ourselves: would it be more beneficial if we were to have a little button that will do in a single click, something that you would do with miles of travelling, ages waiting/respeccing, and loads of credits to achieve the same thing?

 

- There's a difference with dumbing down things, and making things more convenient and beneficial. For example, implementing a one-button macros is dumbing down things over 9000, but enabling mouseover-targetting macros is convenient and beneficial, especially for healers. Dual-speccing does not dumb things down.

 

- How about pure PvE'rs? Don't they get a use for dual specs? Well the specs are definetely not limited to a Tank/Heals spec and then a DPS spec, or a PvP spec and a PvE spec. You can mix and match different specs whether it's for PvP/PvE, tanking/healing/DPSing, or if a certain spec suits your playstyle (say, a spec on the same tree but with a few tweaks to suit what you need, like mobility/survivability vs damage-dealing)

 

- And lastly, Guild/raid expectation: Say you are DPS by heart. But your guild badly needs a Tank/heals. At this time without dual specs, what do you do if you badly wanted to join an Operation? You respec and get your appropriate gear if any, right? Or if you really don't want to be a tank, you stay as DPS and cry in the corner, right?

 

Well, let's say Dual Specs are implemented. But you are DPS by heart. Then, your guild badly needs a Tank/heals. So, what do you do if you badly wanted to join an Operation? You respec and get your appropriate gear if any, right? Or if you really don't want to be a tank, you stay as DPS and cry in the corner, right?

 

Yes, I copy+pasted. The ONLY difference is that without dual specs, you run back to the fleet, respec, then allot talent points. With dual spec, it will only be a push of a button, and maybe an activation time and even maybe a long cooldown.

 

--

Again, as an alternative to dual speccing, I already tried to reroll a character, and although I liked that up to some point, (yes I was able to play a DPS and a healer and enjoyed playing that), creating two characters of the same AC, JUST to "experience" the other spec, is REALLY NOT FUN in the long run. With the limited char space per server, linear storyline, SAME GEAR TYPE you need, and alot more things, a Dual-Spec System will yield a better experience of the game.

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In my opinion this is in high demand. The reason why is the Operations. Some need 2 tanks, some dont.

 

While so far you could get away with a DPS in tanking gear or just heavy gear taunting for a while, that is no longer the case on Denova. If you dont have a second tank specced tank you're gonna struggle a bit.

 

I am actually playing the role of off-tank but im actually a DPS. Were starting hardmode Denova soon and i am dreading whats coming given i already got battered on normal mode.

If i had dual spec i could easily swap to tank spec without having to feel too bad about it.

 

The main issue is that ALL fights need to need 2 tanks or none. This whole limbo creates a problem to players like me.

Edited by Nemmar
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I really enjoyed Rift's talent system, it was fun being able to mess around and create new hybrid specs, plus you could have a spec for almost every situation if you were the right class. That being said I can understand why some people think it would erode the integrity of the current system. It is more just personal preference. I lvl'd up as a medic spec op and it really wasn't bad at all. On my server there are a good number of healers and tanks leveling up so getting groups is easy, plus its an excuse to add somebody to your friends list and increase the social aspect of the game. Therefore, I think the game is fine without it, but it will be a nice quality of life improvement when they do add it.
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I agree with the idea of bing to have a quick swap dual spec. Either to allow pve class to swap from healer to dps for raid/ops balance - which is what I would like.... or for those who want a quick swap between pve and pvp specs.
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the system that they will roll out only allows for changing specs within your AC, so I am fine with that.

still allows people to play another char of the same base class, but to play a different AC, like having an Operative and a Sniper

 

I am more concerned with character slots right now since all of my slots are full on one server and halfway full on another.....

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Okay the bullcrap about "omg, it would make it like WoW" needs to stop. NOW. Stop bringing up World of Warcraft, and quit pretending that this game hasn't taken a MASSIVE AMOUNT OF IDEAS from the game that were intelligent and successful. This game already IS like WoW, it has been since day one.

 

WoW has had several ideas that were great, and several ideas that were bad. Intelligent people are capable of telling the difference, and dual specs was one of the best ideas World of Warcraft ever had.

 

This game was created with a massive amount of heroics, flashpoints, and operations (which require diverse specs), and let's be frank here: the majority of players skip them because finding a tank and healer is such a pain in the ***. You want to know why this is? Because everyone is specced for easy leveling/grinding, and I myself am guilty of this. Why would I spec for healing when I grind dailies every day? Why would I make it take 2 or 3 times as long every day just so I can heal for the occasional flashpoint which is a pain to start without a tank anyways?

 

Dual specs is absolutely required for this game to be successful. It's time to stop beating around the bush and crying about how this might break your immersion or some kind of garbage that is 100% untrue. Instead of making up false stories about this incredibly useful feature, let's make some real comments about how this feature would massively improve this game:

 

  • Instead of spending 1-2 hours in your fleet desperately trying to find that tank or healer you need for your flashpoint while a DPS sorcerer and a DPS juggernaut are in your group, they could simple dual spec and you would be going in minutes instead of hours. Not only that, but if people can fill more than 1 role, many players will have 2 roles available, making it infinitely easier to find players to fill out your group.
  • Likewise, for heroics, you will be able to actually find teams to complete them instead of going into a brick wall 4 man heroic without a tank and healer.
  • Players won't be forced to either choose between fast leveling/mission grinding DPS specs, or being a healer/tank for heroic/flashpoint/operation viability.
  • Players won't be required to choose between PVE specs or PVP specs, they can be optimal in both PVE and PVP instead.
  • Some operation encounters require 2 tanks, others require 1. You either have tanks trying to DPS for some encounters, or DPS trying to tank for some encounters. Or more realistically, players spending hundreds of thousands of credits respeccing and traveling between the fleet and operation area so that they can remain optimal throughout progression.
  • Players avoiding lots of the above points can stop spending 100,000+ per respec and reorganizing their entire user interface each time they respec.
  • SO MUCH MORE...

 

Now, let's list the points against dual specs:

 

  • OMG it will be like WoW! );
  • It will make players roll on all the gear, oh noes!
  • My guild's gonna force me to tank/heal!
  • It will make the game simplified.

 

This is pretty much the entire list I've seen, and I want to add that I have never run across another level 50 that has been against dual specs, especially when I am forming groups for flashpoints and we are spending hours trying to find that elusive tank or healer.

 

For comments on this being like WoW, please refer to the top of this reply.

 

For players rolling on your gear, this is garbage. Courteous players would never roll on alternative spec gear, and selfish players are already hitting need for companions, this changes nothing. Not only that, but the only spec in the entire game that requires different gear are tanks and DPS, and in some cases, heal and DPS.

 

Many tanks already roll on DPS gear that is an upgrade, so this basically boils down to tanks being upset that DPS might roll on their gear. This is something you discuss before the group is run, and then there is no problem. They already might roll need on your gear if you say nothing.

 

And to be fair, I know that there is an issue with gearing up both specs. But this game is very lenient, and the difference is very small. If you try to heal as a smuggler without alacrity, you'll do okay. If you try to tank with DPS gear, you'll do worse but you won't do terribly. For set bonus gear the difference is much bigger, and in operations I know the difference matters. But if you are doing cutting edge content, you likely already have the gear.

 

If you have a guild that would force you to tank/heal, you either have a selfish guild that is making big demands you shouldn't put up with, and thus should leave your guild already, or you, in fact, are being selfish for not helping them progress in operations because you don't want to offspec. Realistically, many guilds already have players spending hundreds of thousands of credits to respec when needed, all this would do is make that more simple for them.

 

Now, saying this might simplify or homogenize the game is actually a fear I understand. WoW was ruined because of this, but it's not homogenization that killed it, it's dumbing things down. If you actually think about it, there is a massive difference between conveniences that drastically improve the game (speeders/mounts, LFG interfaces, etc) and changes made solely to dumbing down the game (cross-realm, simplifying talents so a drunk monkey can pick an optimal spec, etc).

 

Dual specs are absolutely not a case of the latter. Dual specs are a necessary change that would improve the game and make it better for everyone, from marauders trying to find a flashpoint group to sages wanting to heal in flashpoints and heroics without nerfing their ability to do missions solo.

 

This game was designed with solo content playing a massive role in the game, yet also with heroics and flashpoints being a huge part of the game also. It was also designed with PVP and operations in mind. The simple fact here is that you can't do everything with one spec. This is obvious as daylight. Now, you can keep going through the frustrating throes of constant respecing or suffering through sub-optimal specializations, or we can make one of the best changes this game has ever seen. For me, this is a given. It is a shame if others can't see this as well.

 

Edit: I am against changing your advanced class, the dual specs I refer to are solely within your advanced class. I hope this was obvious.

 

Edit2: This post was made after reading the first page, so if it seems a little hostile please keep that in mind. Every time I hear "it would make it like WoW" I just want to punch my monitor. This is a terrible argument and it pisses me off that people actually use this for debating against this, when this game has already taken so much from WoW.

Edited by TheRealBowser
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Edit: Didn't mean to make this a response to the previous post. That guy (or girl) has it right.

 

It seems like the point of the game is to get to lvl 50. There is a lot of other stuff to do, story line wise, but I'm guessing most everyone who plays is trying to reach the level cap. And the way you get there is by killing stuff. Every quest, EVERY quest involves killing stuff. So to get to 50 in the most efficient manner possible you should build your character to be able to kill stuff as efficiently as possible. This means rolling a DPS spec.

 

But the game doesn't stop at level 50, and the stuff you can do once you reach 50 call for classes other than DPS, namely tanks and healers. It seems unfair to make it more difficult for certain classes to achieve the goal of reaching level 50. Especially when those classes, and again I'm talking about tanks and healers, are just as important to flashpoint and OP success as are DPS classes. And leveling with a tank or healer is more difficult than doing so with a DPS. Companions help some, but they aren't as good at DPS as a PC is.

 

You say you don't want dual spec. I say fine. But then once you chose your AC you should also have to pick a role. If you want to heal as a Sith sorcerer, then all your quests from then on should involve healing stuff instead of killing stuff. If you want to tank as a Jedi guardian, then all your quests should involve tanking something instead of killing something. I don't want dual spec because I want more from the game than you. I want dual spec so the game isn't more work for me than it is for a DPS class. If you make it as easy to level a tank or healer as it is for a DPS toon, then you wouldn't need to have this discussion.

 

I love healing and I love tanking, but I play DPS more often because it makes the game easier for most of the time. And this isn't different once you get to 50. There are always going to be new quests to do, and they inevitably involve killing things. So respeccing once I get to 50 won't solve the problem.

Edited by Supwest
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Sages do not need dual spec because only tree viable is balance. Heal got nerf, no more hybrids and telekinetics is slow shooting turret :)

 

HEALS GOT NERFED?! Are you kidding me?!

 

We ran EC normal the other night with a Fresh/Columi/1 piece rakata sage as our secondary healer (He's good though, just not his main. ) and a sage as our other main healer, and we wrecked the bosses. So much so that we decided to invent a new strat for toth and zorn, DPS SWAPPING! we alternated between the two, dropped toth first, and then slaughtered enraged zorn with uber heals backing us up.

 

Heals aren't nerfed, L2P the class better and mana manage.

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Cons

 

If they let people switch spec during warzones they can adjust to stuff like switch to tank / heal spec in voidstar for supereasy defense.

 

Shadows can switch to tankspec for crazy ball carrier in huttball even though their main spec is dps.

 

Civil War, Solo shadow can burst someone down in dps spec capture the turret swtich to tank spec so he can easier hold it untill reinforcement arrives.

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Cons

 

If they let people switch spec during warzones they can adjust to stuff like switch to tank / heal spec in voidstar for supereasy defense.

 

Shadows can switch to tankspec for crazy ball carrier in huttball even though their main spec is dps.

 

Civil War, Solo shadow can burst someone down in dps spec capture the turret swtich to tank spec so he can easier hold it untill reinforcement arrives.

 

This is why in WoW, there's a restriction on swapping out to your off-talent spec while inside of a battleground. You aren't allowed to do it. Whatever spec you clicked the, "ENTER BATTLEGROUND," button as is the one you're locked into playing as for that round.

 

It's a good system.

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