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[Sniper Gunslinger Initiative] An opportunity to change Laze Target presents itself


paowee

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First off I'd like to say I'm not picking on Paowee or anyone else, just his above posts hold a theme that a few posters seem to be supporting.

 

I'm getting the feeling that some of the players are supporting the brainstormed change to Laze Target that the Devs threw out because they'd take anything over nothing. As Paowee said, they threw us a bone on a string and we're chasing it, but is that how we really want to treat this opportunity? The Devs answered our question about Laze Target and showed that they'd be open for altering the ability a bit to better fit its designed purpose, but many of you are acting like the whole combat team sat down and gave us an ultimatum. I'm sure whoever sat down and wrote that question put that out there just to show us something they could do with it, not something they would or wanted to do with it in the first place.

 

I would suggest we take advantage of this opportunity, not just stop here. The community team gave us the platform to ask questions, the combat team answered our questions with an open-ended response for us to retort, and now its up to us to continue the discussion. Why stop at a suggestion they just came up with to flesh out their answer? Why can't we have a developing conversation about the purpose of Laze Target and what alterations could make it fit its designed purpose better? We already know that class balancing won't be coming until 2.5-2.6, so we have a lot of time to hold a strong discussion that would help the ability develop into something we can all be very happy with.

 

Let's put in the extra effort the combat team is and continue the discussion so we can go back to them with some really great input. Not only could this improve Laze Target beyond what was initially suggested, but this would set a precedent for the future where more back and forth between the combat team and player community could take place. We've got nothing to lose here and everything to gain.

 

No problemo Angels and great post from you as always! Hmm.. in order to give a suggesstion... we'll have to vote again on what kind of laze target everyone wants. Something that is balanced and does not widen the DPS gap more. Something that aligns with BW's design and intention and a reason that justifies giving us, an already high sustained DPS class some more burst, or some more extra DPS. Honestly I don't think I have the energy to do that again after this post and the Sniper questions thread. If anyone wants to start a new post about it and gather the community's decision, i'll be glad to forward it to eric.

 

xD

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Just to be clear, I vote I want LT/SL to affect abilities specific to the 3 specs at the cost of increased cooldown.

Below is a first thought I came up with (sorry if someone else already mentioned).

I voted yes pure because I am curious how the suggested change will affect us :) And I haven't really thought about balance and stuff in my idea :p (again sory if someone else already emntioned this idea)

 

I like the idea for a change but the cost is still big in my eyes.

I think that, due to the longer cooldown, the change will be nearly nothing (dps wise).

 

I am wondering if something like this is possible:

Makes your next Amush - Aimed shot instant and usable out of cover. CD 2-3 min.

 

As in getting something we can use on the run. Let the higher coldown be the strategic value, know when to use it.

Although the effects will be best for SS - MM with trickshot - followthrough

Edited by Whojoo
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Sorry for the super large post, but I don't like double posting. :D

Well, it's better than nothing.

 

If nothing else, I hope at least some change coming out of this is a good thing. Good start. Precedent for further Dev-Player cooperation.

Don't get me wrong, I'd like to see something change as well, but I just think we don't need to chomp at the bit for it especially since it's for a cooldown that is just lack-luster for one of the top performing classes. There are other classes with much more urgency for change than we are, and they should be chasing the devs for that. However, that's not saying we shouldn't be taking initiative, like how Paowee has now and before.

 

Because it's Laze Target.

Really. If I were a developer, I wouldn't want to have long talks about the purpose of Laze Target. For you it's one of your only two offensive cooldowns... for me it's one of your 40 possible abilities and one of 150 between all classes.

I'm not saying the devs or the player community need to have a long talk on the offensive cooldown's purpose, heck the devs already know why Laze Target is in the game. The point I was making is that if we do have serious discussions about how Laze Target could change, we need to recognize what its suppose to accomplish (i.e. Is it for extra burst, sustained DPS boost, added utility, etc). If we aren't clear on what its job is then we can't comment on how it's suppose to do its job better.

 

For you it's one of the 40 abilities we have at our disposal, for me it's one of the 40 tools we were given. Each tool has its own purpose, while some tools are less impressive than others, if the tool isn't doing its designated job or under-performing at it that's a problem. Granted, a Sniper offensive cooldown that is under-performing isn't a big issue right now, but we should always be thinking of ways to make our arsenal more useful in every situation.

 

Well, I posted my suggested improvement a few times here:

 

I believe the PvP game needs an offensive cooldown that can, once in a while, get through sustained defenses. Something that can actually kill someone who, at their 25% hitpoints, otherwise remains still invincible due to guard and heals.

 

Allowing LT-buffed shots to ignore Guard - and preferably ignore player defenses altogether, no avoidance, no mitigation - would let it serve this purpose. It won't make snipers parse any higher, mobs don't guard one another. It will simply give Arenas that all-important execute. Not the fake "execute" that only takes the target from 25% to 20%; just something other than Smash that can actually finish a player off so acid doesn't have to.

 

Total DPS doesn't change, not more than by a few points. It just makes sure this damage comes to the target and not to the ever-healed tank. After all, aren't Snipers supposed to hit who they meant to hit?

I've been reading your suggestions, among others, and I really like it. That's a great idea for PvP as it would give Snipers a bit more warrant in Arena teams. Not to mention the way you communicated your idea was fantastic as it covered multiple bases.

 

However, this does ignore change for PvE which there are Snipers/Slingers who'd like to see alteration there. Do you have any ideas how this change could be accompanied with a PvE change? My first thought would be for Laze Target to function differently in both environments. For example, in PvP it will bypass guard but in PvE it would guarantee the Snipe won't miss the target and the Snipe would do a small amount of extra damage. I know this would make PvE Snipers parse higher, so the cooldown could be extended to a 1m30sec while a new PvP 4pc reduces the cooldown on Laze Target by 30 seconds. No change in PvE parse while giving PvE Snipers a bit more burst and then PvP Snipers get a nice utility boost with a 4pc bonus that isn't lack-luster as well.

 

My statement about discussing changes was directed at the thread in general as your suggestions, among others, have been glossed over because the purpose of this thread is just to see how many players in the Sniper community would back the example change the devs told us. I'd like for your suggestion, among others, to go under more serious consideration among our peers rather than just being additional information as why you are for or against the chang to Laze Target discussed in the original post. That way our input on Laze Target would garner a greater sample of information that the devs would be more likely to look into closely instead of just seeing if we're ya or nay on an example Laze Target change.

 

No problemo Angels and great post from you as always! Hmm.. in order to give a suggesstion... we'll have to vote again on what kind of laze target everyone wants. Something that is balanced and does not widen the DPS gap more. Something that aligns with BW's design and intention and a reason that justifies giving us, an already high sustained DPS class some more burst, or some more extra DPS. Honestly I don't think I have the energy to do that again after this post and the Sniper questions thread. If anyone wants to start a new post about it and gather the community's decision, i'll be glad to forward it to eric.

 

xD

Haha, thanks Paowee! I also wouldn't expect you to do everything, there are a lot of us Snipers/Slingers around here so I don't see why we can't share the responsibility. If we are going to start a thread about Laze Target suggestions we'd have to set ground rules. Like you said, we'd have to make sure the change in how much damage it inflicts doesn't give our sustained damage a boost. Furthermore, the suggestions would have to adhere to the design purpose of Laze Target as seen by the developers, this is something we can easily derive from their answer to our question especially since they gave us an example. Each suggestion would also have to justify its implementation like you said. Stating why the extra burst or utility is needed is essential, reasons like, "because Laze Target is boring/sucks," are not good reasons.

 

Maybe I'll write up something in a bit unless someone else would like to head it up (if so please let us all know), but I'd still like to wait a day before posting anything like that so other posters can weigh in on this discussion.

 

Just to be clear, I vote I want LT/SL to affect abilities specific to the 3 specs at the cost of increased cooldown.

Below is a first thought I came up with (sorry if someone else already mentioned).

I voted yes pure because I am curious how the suggested change will affect us :) And I haven't really thought about balance and stuff in my idea :p (again sory if someone else already emntioned this idea)

 

I like the idea for a change but the cost is still big in my eyes.

I think that, due to the longer cooldown, the change will be nearly nothing (dps wise).

 

I am wondering if something like this is possible:

Makes your next Amush - Aimed shot instant and usable out of cover. CD 2-3 min.

 

As in getting something we can use on the run. Let the higher coldown be the strategic value, know when to use it.

Although the effects will be best for SS - MM with trickshot - followthrough

I definitely agree that if the cooldown is going to be increased to two minutes or greater that the ability would have to be more worthwhile. This value being derived from utility rather than damage is a step in right direction, but instant out-of-cover ambush may be a bit much seeing how much damage Ambush does, especially in Marksmanship. Laze Target should effect a more neutral ability among the specs or more than one.

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Great post by Angel, which are my thoughts but not able to articulate :p

 

Really appreciate how much time and effort Paowee spend to support the Sniper/Slinger community. Also, we have a great collection of level headed people in here. Kudos to you all! :D

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If the CD is 3min I want a One Shot One Kill Mentality out of it. Some things I would prefer with it:

 

  • 100% Armor Pen. There will be a KB included in the shot like MM. Range of KB to be determined.
  • I want the shot to pass through and hit another Player/NPC. Max it will Pen through is 3 players with the first being 100%DMG, 2nd 50% DMG, 3rd 25%. DMG can be an Auto Crit of course.
  • If the player is below 25% HP then the 1st player/NPC it hits is an auto Kill.
  • Have to be out of Combat to use. This is to "Zero the scope, Aim and Setup" kinda like the animation as is now.
  • Lastly, leave as is. Or possibly make Lazed Snipe and Target Acquired work hand in hand somehow.

 

-J:cool:

Edited by Mythurin
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If the CD is 3min I want a One Shot One Kill Mentality out of it. Some things I would prefer with it:

 

  • 100% Armor Pen. There will be a KB included in the shot like MM. Range of KB to be determined.
  • I want the shot to pass through and hit another Player/NPC. Max it will Pen through is 3 players with the first being 100%DMG, 2nd 50% DMG, 3rd 25%. DMG can be an Auto Crit of course.
  • If the player is below 25% HP then the 1st player/NPC it hits is an auto Kill.
  • Have to be out of Combat to use. This is to "Zero the scope, Aim and Setup" kinda like the animation as is now.
  • Lastly, leave as is. Or possibly make Lazed Snipe and Target Acquired work hand in hand somehow.

 

-J:cool:

 

So, you want us to have HK-51's execute ability? LOL, don't see that happening.

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If you guys are really going to start a thread about player suggestions for Laze Target (those that do not agree with what BW proposed) can i get a deadline for it? Initially i'd submit mine next week and i think if you guys are going to do this, submitting it alongside this "thread" would be the best way to go at it so the devs can look em through side by side.

 

To be honest i think it would be cool to see change(s) to a class brought about by something other than noise and flaming (looks at sorcerer forums). i wonder how it would've been like if snipers were the underdogs in this game (in pve)

 

EDIT: I started a new thread for Angels outside http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=675601

Edited by paowee
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The point I was making is that if we do have serious discussions about how Laze Target could change, we need to recognize what its suppose to accomplish (i.e. Is it for extra burst, sustained DPS boost, added utility, etc).

Sniper sustain with perfect play is about where it should be. It's not the absolute best, all things considered, but in terms of whittling down a boss snipers work. I wouldn't mind small increases, but nor would I ask for them, and I don't see the devs *purposefully* working to add sustain.

 

I would like Sniper class changes changes to add more flexibility. More ways to play a Sniper that still come within 2-3% of the perfect rotation. This is exactly what Laze lacks: it's only useful in one spec in one kind of content. Snipe is simply too expensive for too small a damage gain versus free attacks to spend energy on it, unless you get MM energy boosts and PvE set bonus.

 

Extra burst is another thing Snipers need. Despite probably being meant to be a 'bursty' class, today Sniper burst has trouble coming close to not only Marauders, but even Juggs, a class that remains a potent off-tank even in DPS spec.

 

 

However, this does ignore change for PvE which there are Snipers/Slingers who'd like to see alteration there. Do you have any ideas how this change could be accompanied with a PvE change?

The same as proposed - have it affect Ambush, SoS, EP, TD or Cull.

I see these changes as complementary. The reason is that an auto-crit will already ignore some defenses, enough for PvE, it just needs to ignore the defense relevant in PvP, and that is guard. So it won't make Snipers parse higher by any measurable amount.

 

And it's something I can see in the game.

"Increases the critical hit chance of your next Ambush, Series of Shots, Explosive Probe, Takedown or Cull by 100% and makes it unable to be avoided, mitigated or intercepted."

 

It's something that can happen. It's something that will change very little in terms of averages. It simply completes the auto-crit purpose of Laze Target - making sure that your next strike hits hard - by first making sure that it hits your target at all. On a 2-3 minute cooldown, such assurance is really called for.

 

The "intercepted" part affects PvP only, and again it doesn't actually change the total damage done, just how it's applied. Right now "how it's applied" is what keeps Snipers from being competitive with Maras and even Juggs. While the AoE effect of their Smash doesn't bypass Guard, what it does is damage both the tank and his guard, resulting in the tank taking 150% of its damage. Snipers can't match that, they still won't be able to, but at least that one non-interceptible shot per arena round (that's how rare a 3-minute CD would make it) would be useful for them. LT+Snipe as it stands just isn't.

Edited by B-Dick
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Great post by Angel, which are my thoughts but not able to articulate :p

 

Really appreciate how much time and effort Paowee spend to support the Sniper/Slinger community. Also, we have a great collection of level headed people in here. Kudos to you all! :D

Thanks Svii, and of course always big thanks to Paowee. :)

If the CD is 3min I want a One Shot One Kill Mentality out of it. Some things I would prefer with it:

 

  • 100% Armor Pen. There will be a KB included in the shot like MM. Range of KB to be determined.
  • I want the shot to pass through and hit another Player/NPC. Max it will Pen through is 3 players with the first being 100%DMG, 2nd 50% DMG, 3rd 25%. DMG can be an Auto Crit of course.
  • If the player is below 25% HP then the 1st player/NPC it hits is an auto Kill.
  • Have to be out of Combat to use. This is to "Zero the scope, Aim and Setup" kinda like the animation as is now.
  • Lastly, leave as is. Or possibly make Lazed Snipe and Target Acquired work hand in hand somehow.

 

-J:cool:

9/10 for creativity, but needs more instant cast, double ticking Orbital Strikes.

 

Having Laze Target and Target Acquired working directly off of each other sounds interesting, but could limit the versatility of each ability. Plus, they already can work with one another since the armor pen bonus from Target Acquired does benefit a lazed Snipe. However, I agree that if the cooldown is three minutes or longer it better be something ridiculously awesome, like we could shoot our mainhand and throw our blade/off-hand blaster at the enemy to have it do internal damage then have the blade/off-hand regenerate in our hand. If you played Borderlands 2, think of Tediore weapon reloads. :cool:

 

If you guys are really going to start a thread about player suggestions for Laze Target (those that do not agree with what BW proposed) can i get a deadline for it? Initially i'd submit mine next week and i think if you guys are going to do this, submitting it alongside this "thread" would be the best way to go at it so the devs can look em through side by side.

 

To be honest i think it would be cool to see change(s) to a class brought about by something other than noise and flaming (looks at sorcerer forums). i wonder how it would've been like if snipers were the underdogs in this game (in pve)

 

EDIT: I started a new thread for Angels outside http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=675601

The only way something ever gets done is with a due date, so I'd agree to this. Submitting these two together would be cool too! I'd recommend the date be next Friday, I'll be unavailable all this weekend due to PAX Prime so I won't be much help until after Monday.

 

Thanks for starting up the thread, I reserved a few spots for organizational use. I'll work on them and update you when they're done.

 

EDIT: Replied to B-Dick

Sniper sustain with perfect play is about where it should be. It's not the absolute best, all things considered, but snipers are solid. I wouldn't mind small increases, but nor would I ask for them, and I don't see the devs *purposefully* working to add sustain.

 

I would like Sniper class changes changes to add more flexibility. More ways to play a Sniper that still come within 2-3% of the perfect rotation. This is exactly what Laze lacks: it's only useful in one spec in one kind of content. Snipe is simply too expensive for too small a damage gain versus free attacks to spend energy on it, unless you get MM energy boosts and PvE set bonus.

 

Extra burst is another thing Snipers need. Despite probably being meant to be a 'bursty' class, today Sniper burst has trouble coming close to not only Marauders, but even Juggs, a class that remains a potent off-tank even in DPS spec.

 

We're on the same page, I agree with basically everything above. I also appreciate you giving me the PvP perspective, I only PvP in regulars in the off-time so my experience in that environment is low.

 

The same as proposed - have it affect Ambush, SoS, EP, TD or Cull.

I see these changes as complementary. The reason is that an auto-crit will already ignore some defenses, enough for PvE, it just needs to ignore the defense relevant in PvP, and that is guard. So it won't make Snipers parse higher by any measurable amount.

 

And it's something I can see in the game.

"Increases the critical hit chance of your next Ambush, Series of Shots, Explosive Probe, Takedown or Cull by 100% and makes it unable to be avoided or intercepted."

 

It's something that can happen. It's something that will change very little in terms of averages. It simply completes the auto-crit purpose of Laze Target - making sure that your next strike hits hard - by first making sure that it hits your target at all. On a 2 or 3 minute cooldown, such assurance is really called for. The "intercepted" part affects PvP only, and again it doesn't actually change the total damage.

That's a strong write-up, and I like your view on this topic. It's a much more eloquent fix for the cooldown than what I have thought up, and it's a bit more flexible in a spec's playstyle and rotation. I'd assume that the "avoided" tag in your ability description wouldn't apply to Dodge/Evasion, Force Shroud/Resilience, or similar effects? In other words, it can't ignore defensive cooldowns that are designed to have a 100% chance of avoided a certain attack?

Edited by AngelFluttershy
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That's a strong write-up, and I like your view on this topic. It's a much more eloquent fix for the cooldown than what I have thought up, and it's a bit more flexible in a spec's playstyle and rotation. I'd assume that the "avoided" tag in your ability description wouldn't apply to Dodge/Evasion, Force Shroud/Resilience, or similar effects? In other words, it can't ignore defensive cooldowns that are designed to have a 100% chance of avoided a certain attack?

Of course not. First thought was that it would be implicit, i.e. absolute immunity trumps it. I think there are a few things in the game that "can not be...", but are by total defenses.

 

A more descriptive phrasing could be:

"Increases the critical hit chance of your next Ambush, Series of Shots, Explosive Probe, Takedown or Cull by 100% and makes it unable to be intercepted, avoided or mitigated by abilities that provide partial protection."

 

Either way, exact wording would be up to the developers, if this change is done, but this is understandable enough. We don't need a cheat, just a counter to PvP tanking and "can't kill me" cycling of defenses. Not a hard counter either, it still only a moderate bit of damage once in a long while, but it could start the work toward getting Snipers back into competitive PvP.

 

Right now, Smash Maras can finish off tanks at otherwise survivable hp, and they can do it easily, repeatably, twice a minute, with their full ease of rotation and AoE power; AP PTs are high up there as well. Letting Snipers do that, but to the guarded player instead of the tank, only once in two minutes, damaging a single target only, requiring correct setup, isn't much. It's balanced, it fits their role, it doesn't change the relative ranking, just narrows the gap, adds a little more reason to consider the class for ranked compositions.

 

As a regular 15-30-second cooldown, it would secure a very fitting role for Snipers as "healer killers". A

s a 2-minute cooldown it doesn't, but it lets them to occasionally participate in putting pressure on the enemy team rather than merely send more damage against their heals.

Edited by B-Dick
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I vote for BW's Laze Target or something similar to it.

 

I support a change to alter Laze Target/Smuggler's luck in a way that the developers have mentioned. I don't have much time to work on an elegant solution to this issue, but I think any change should have the following effects:

 

1) Allow the skill to provide more of a meaningful choice for players.

2) Slightly lower DPS of MM/Sharpshooter spec by about 20-30 DPS (even if this makes it useless damage-wise in this spec).

3) Slightly improve DPS of Dirty Fighting/Lethality and the hybrid.

 

My justifications for these points are as follows:

 

1) This is the main reason people even want to change the skill. It is a boring skill that does little to reward good play.

2) MM/Sharpshooter DPS is too high for being such an easy spec to play decently, having no ramp-up time, and having great survivability. I wouldn't mind a general slight nerf to MM/Sharpshooter spec in general to lower DPS by about 50-100.

3) DoT specs in general should always have slightly higher overall DPS than specs with ones without as they require more maintenance to keep up and are punished significantly during fights where enemies are untargetable. Currently, MM/Sharpshoter does almost exactly equal damage to Lethality and its hybrid, which should not be the case.

Edited by Vaidinah
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This change is underwhelming but better than LT as it exists right now. Don't know how you'd count that under your system.

 

LT was never ment to be an overwhelming skill lol. We just want it to be moved up to have some use again

Edited by CJNJ
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Actually come to think of it, the reason they are pushing the cooldown up so much is specifically so it doesn't increase dps. Snipers are already the highest parsing class, giving them more dps would be rediculus particularly when they just told the second lowest parsing class, that their low dps are just "perception problems"

 

In PvP, Marauders disagree.

Edited by islander
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This change is underwhelming but better than LT as it exists right now. Don't know how you'd count that under your system.

 

I'll take the new Laze Target. (yes vote)

I'll keep the new Laze Target. (no vote)

I'll abstain from this thread and let others decide the fate of Laze Target (abstain vote).

 

I think you are on the yes vote >_<? i'll write it down as yes for now.

Edited by paowee
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Just came across this thread recently and I've thought a bit before I answered.

 

I don't think we DESERVE a more punchy laze-target. Would it increase our overall dummy parse DPS? No. But it WOULD give us yet another advantage over less well-endowed classes on particular fights, meaning more reason to take a sniper (or a second sniper) over, say, a sorc or an assassin, classes we already have beat in most regards.

 

For example:

 

Kephess the Undying - Increased burst during downed phases, more total DPS, less difficulty pushing to 10% before the last pillar comes down (though admittedly not a hard fight to manage that in the first place).

 

The TFB - Super fast Larvas go down a lot faster 2/3 times with this change, assuring an ambush crit once very 2-3 minutes.

 

Thrasher - Already a backup for the melee DPS not being able to get to the demolitionist because of MM's Diversion, we could theoretically hold Laze Target and bring the demo down rapidly. Would be a valid reason to simply alternate demolitionists between a mara and a sniper and allow more uptime on the boss for DPS.

 

Ops Chief - Less time for the turrets to be up = less random, spiky damage for healers. We already have an advantage over most classes in this fight, as we have no setup to do in MM when taking down the turrets.

 

Styrak - every second buffing add in phase 1 goes down faster, and melee DPS have less need to leave the boss. Would allow me to come out before chained manifestation if nightmared with probably 2 or 3 seconds to spare.

 

Granted, these only cover PvE bonuses. While I don't ranked PvP regularly, it seems to me that we've been given increased utility and great single target DPS without having to burn our energy to 0 with 2.0. We still have a single ridiculous burst 1v1 (Flashbang, orbital, EP, corrosive dart, ambush, followthrough) that's up every 45 seconds, and we're hard to surprise now with the stealth scan built into our cover. I don't feel that we deserve an upgrade to Laze Target, and I don't feel that there's any way it could be more fairly distributed between the specs aside from making it a 10 second buff to all crit, or something similar.

 

Put me on the leave it as it is list. I'd rather see changes to make us less easy to play in MM. People are QQing about us for a reason.

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Put me on the leave it as it is list. I'd rather see changes to make us less easy to play in MM. People are QQing about us for a reason.

 

They are? I thought most of the complainers were from unrealistic players that want to have it all. Like some of the Sorc posters that wanted to not have to worry about people getting out of LOS on their channeled powers and wanted to do most of their damage on the move.

 

Sharpshooters and Marksmen have plenty of counters that keep me from facerolling any decent opponents I face. A decent stealther can make things difficult, as can other Snipers or Gunslingers, as can the many DoT specs, and other ranged damage types, too. Oh, and all those melee types that can leap to you in cover (or manage to run up to you, which isn't as hard as it sounds in a chaotic and hard fought WZ) and then resist your CC. Really, there is way too much QQing over this spec--it's more about other specs not working as well as they should than us working as we should (seriously, the fact that Laze Target was one of the Sniper questions shows that the class is pretty much doing what it's supposed to, rather than the questions asked by Scoundrels for DPS, for instance).

 

Also, the proposed change to Laze Target/Smuggler's Luck would put the power on a really long cooldown, too. One guaranteed crit from ONE power every few minutes is hardly overpowered, just a strategic choice that's more interesting than a guaranteed crit on a moderate power.

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To clarify, I don't feel that people are QQing about us PvP wise for tons of good reasons. We have a few nice things 1v1, but I don't feel overpowered compared to other ranged DPS classes, especially when it comes to having consistent burst (less than our 30-45 second CD huge burst). What I mean is that people complaining about MM in PvE are entirely correct: It's super easy to play, it does tons of damage, and it's well suited to every current NiM fight. Carrying a MM Sniper in your group makes a great deal of fights easier than without one, and you get one of the consistently top PvE DPS specs as well. I preferred pre-2.0 Marksmanship, though I don't hate the damage boost we got.
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They are? I thought most of the complainers were from unrealistic players that want to have it all. Like some of the Sorc posters that wanted to not have to worry about people getting out of LOS on their channeled powers and wanted to do most of their damage on the move.

 

Sharpshooters and Marksmen have plenty of counters that keep me from facerolling any decent opponents I face. A decent stealther can make things difficult, as can other Snipers or Gunslingers, as can the many DoT specs, and other ranged damage types, too. Oh, and all those melee types that can leap to you in cover (or manage to run up to you, which isn't as hard as it sounds in a chaotic and hard fought WZ) and then resist your CC. Really, there is way too much QQing over this spec--it's more about other specs not working as well as they should than us working as we should (seriously, the fact that Laze Target was one of the Sniper questions shows that the class is pretty much doing what it's supposed to, rather than the questions asked by Scoundrels for DPS, for instance).

 

Also, the proposed change to Laze Target/Smuggler's Luck would put the power on a really long cooldown, too. One guaranteed crit from ONE power every few minutes is hardly overpowered, just a strategic choice that's more interesting than a guaranteed crit on a moderate power.

 

He was talking PVE >_<. You replied with a PVP post XD

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Hope everyone had a great long weekend!

 

Eric said to shoot him the thread(s) once everything is done. He'll send it to over to the combat team and "see what he can do" :D

 

There are about what... ~50 participants in this thread? Say the minimum swtor population is 500,000. That makes us 0.01% of this game's population. I just want to say thanks in advance to eric (and BW, if they do end up replying to this at alll lol), for taking the time to reply to such a small audience ^_^,

Edited by paowee
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