OriginalTomoka Posted December 4, 2012 Share Posted December 4, 2012 "The damage dealt by Firebrand & Stormcaller in 16-player Nightmare mode has been slightly reduced, and the enrage timer has been lengthened." ...and there it is. I want to throw up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarkhorseForLife Posted December 4, 2012 Share Posted December 4, 2012 "The damage dealt by Firebrand and Stormcaller in 16-player Nightmare Mode has been slightly reduced, and their enrage timer has been lengthened." Well at least this means they (BW) are paying attention, which can only be a good sign. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gyronamics Posted December 4, 2012 Share Posted December 4, 2012 (edited) And yet no nerf for 16m kephess. Probably wait til a few guilds finally clear him then nerf it to enable others to get in. It's what's been done with all content and gear tbh, leave at original difficulty then increase accessibility later (campaign armourings for black hole comms you say?) Amusing that they forgot to enable overload on the probe in NiM, no wonder it was so easy. Edited December 4, 2012 by Gyronamics Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ephesia Posted December 4, 2012 Share Posted December 4, 2012 Ah good job, first US Republic to down it. It sucks too because I feel with tonight's patch they will change something on that fight to make it easier (AKA a little more time on the enrage timer) which means a lot of us won't have a sense of accomplishment if we don't down the "vanilla" version of the boss anymore. :/ Dang. You will always have bragging rights to having it downed before the nerf Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tahoeWolverine Posted December 4, 2012 Share Posted December 4, 2012 (edited) And yet no nerf for 16m kephess. Are you in Mox or Friendly Fire? This should be emphasized: 16m Kephess should *not* be nerfed. It may very well be the most difficult encounter yet, but, at least for my guild, we're still excited and progressing in the fight. If in 3 weeks, it's still alive, go ahead and nerf it. Edited December 4, 2012 by tahoeWolverine Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Garell Posted December 4, 2012 Share Posted December 4, 2012 Are you in Mox of Friendly Fire? This should be emphasized: 16m Kephess should *not* be nerfed. It may very well be the most difficult encounter yet, but, at least for my guild, we're still excited and progressing in the fight. If in 3 weeks, it's still alive, go ahead and nerf it. Well he's not one of ours... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arahakust Posted December 4, 2012 Share Posted December 4, 2012 Are you in Mox or Friendly Fire? This should be emphasized: 16m Kephess should *not* be nerfed. It may very well be the most difficult encounter yet, but, at least for my guild, we're still excited and progressing in the fight. If in 3 weeks, it's still alive, go ahead and nerf it. Commando from ToFN. Think the guild was Nano? There was some discussion about their video in this thread. http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=558908 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dragonbgone Posted December 4, 2012 Share Posted December 4, 2012 (edited) Although yes, the nerf is something that's not going to feel as good when we down it, we've all worked our asses off on this fight to die multiple times under 5%HP on one boss. As the guilds that have downed it have stated, the fight is overtuned. From one of my top healers: "This feels more like I wanna be the Guy than MMO raiding.". Now, I will say that if my guild were better prepared for 16 man (we recently moved into the bracket) AND had we done a better job farming once we got HM Denova down in May we very well could have had this down, but that is in hindsight. We did not have a full 63 group, not even close I will be making sure we are better prepared as a guild for the next content. We will be staying in 16 man. Edited December 4, 2012 by Dragonbgone Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grimsblood Posted December 4, 2012 Share Posted December 4, 2012 "The damage dealt by Firebrand & Stormcaller in 16-player Nightmare mode has been slightly reduced, and the enrage timer has been lengthened." ...and there it is. I want to throw up. I agree. We had one tank dead and the second down to 38k health. With the minor tweaks for applied damage we made I was looking forward to tonight. We have the perfection, we have the dps, we just lost latent dots and wind up time with how fast we were killing Stormcaller. *sigh* This fight really does change you, I feel it should stay as it was. Especially because it was actually a true "Nightmare". Welp, on to EZ mode and loot I do not need. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Classicks Posted December 4, 2012 Share Posted December 4, 2012 Obviously we just barely pulled through... but being competitive as I am, I was curious if I may ask how the point system works when considering things like this nerf? I won't be crying if it goes unchanged, but it was something I wanted to get looked into. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OriginalTomoka Posted December 4, 2012 Share Posted December 4, 2012 Obviously we just barely pulled through... but being competitive as I am, I was curious if I may ask how the point system works when considering things like this nerf? I won't be crying if it goes unchanged, but it was something I wanted to get looked into. To be fair, nobody actually knows the changes yet; we are just basing off text. Until a group gets in there and tests it (mainly the groups that have been dying at enrage timers or 1%), then we can make a fair assessment. This Ops has been so screwy anyways, and as anyone will agree, Kephess is the only thing that matters. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Garell Posted December 4, 2012 Share Posted December 4, 2012 To be fair, nobody actually knows the changes yet; we are just basing off text. Until a group gets in there and tests it (mainly the groups that have been dying at enrage timers or 1%), then we can make a fair assessment. This Ops has been so screwy anyways, and as anyone will agree, Kephess is the only thing that matters. I can't say i agree. I wouldn't consider tanks as hard as kephess, but i wouldn't disreguard it altogether. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Classicks Posted December 4, 2012 Share Posted December 4, 2012 (edited) To be fair, nobody actually knows the changes yet; we are just basing off text. Until a group gets in there and tests it (mainly the groups that have been dying at enrage timers or 1%), then we can make a fair assessment. This Ops has been so screwy anyways, and as anyone will agree, Kephess is the only thing that matters. Not only is the damage nerfed, but the enrage timer as well. Seems like a significant nerf to me, obviously we will know when we see all the kill posts tonight. I say this because I'm also not sure I agree that Kephess is all that matters. Unfortunately we don't have a kill video, but I will say we hit enrage on Firebrand at 1%. Edited December 4, 2012 by Classicks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deceptweb Posted December 5, 2012 Share Posted December 5, 2012 Severity Gaming 16 Man Republic Prophecy of the Five Tanks @ 2:21AM http://wiggio.com/yui/folder/stream_file.php?doc_key=P8gxAp+zLyNI8zfZRbvyafI0H/5HM9qfXuRXbjkF4Bw= Vorgath @ 3:12AM http://wiggio.com/yui/folder/stream_file.php?doc_key=d7Ug0SyQK+7YmYKuN/7dO9AAHjtQjjqg07uP6L9e9Y0= Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FlashpointFX Posted December 5, 2012 Share Posted December 5, 2012 Severity Gaming 16 Man Republic Prophecy of the Five Tanks @ 2:21AM http://wiggio.com/yui/folder/stream_file.php?doc_key=P8gxAp+zLyNI8zfZRbvyafI0H/5HM9qfXuRXbjkF4Bw= Vorgath @ 3:12AM http://wiggio.com/yui/folder/stream_file.php?doc_key=d7Ug0SyQK+7YmYKuN/7dO9AAHjtQjjqg07uP6L9e9Y0= http://wiggio.com/yui/folder/stream_file.php?doc_key=UaYIVdfTaQl+vJPQPxrh7Zp/BzsmNKF7oNsX8QwQT5s= Severity Gaming Screenshot with Nightmare tags for codex entry taken for expanded proof. Plus... one cool as hell explosion capture. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gyronamics Posted December 5, 2012 Share Posted December 5, 2012 Are you in Mox or Friendly Fire? This should be emphasized: 16m Kephess should *not* be nerfed. It may very well be the most difficult encounter yet, but, at least for my guild, we're still excited and progressing in the fight. If in 3 weeks, it's still alive, go ahead and nerf it. Neither, I'm in Nano's 8m. They've nerfed tanks despite guilds clearing it, why else would they do it except to increase the number of guilds that can. With that gone as an obstacle there's just kephess and if enough guilds are banging on it and failing (only a very few atm) I can see them wanting to please the majority again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
derkae Posted December 5, 2012 Author Share Posted December 5, 2012 Updated @ 18:10 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
todorovh Posted December 5, 2012 Share Posted December 5, 2012 Are you in Mox or Friendly Fire? This should be emphasized: 16m Kephess should *not* be nerfed. It may very well be the most difficult encounter yet, but, at least for my guild, we're still excited and progressing in the fight. If in 3 weeks, it's still alive, go ahead and nerf it. ehm... why would you assume ff and mox want kephess nerfed ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
arkitip Posted December 5, 2012 Share Posted December 5, 2012 ehm... why would you assume ff and mox want kephess nerfed ? I don't think that was the assumption. I think that the assumption was that since the poster was speaking toward nerfing 16m content in order to allow more people to complete it and inferring that was a bad thing that the poster was in a guild with a significant amount of NiM 16m pulls in. At this time, there are only 3 guilds with a significant number of Kephess pulls - MoX, FF, and Chosen. As for whether or not these encounters *should* be nerfed.. I feel like the current state they are in shows that the content was not tested at the 16m level thoroughly enough and that the current guilds pulling Kephess are essentially the beta testers. Do we think we're (Chosen) going to be able to do it? Yes. From the perspective of a DPS player that MID PROGRESSION decided to level a different AC to be "more viable" though I will tell you that the fights are tuned in such a way that certain specs are on the cusp of being unusable in the raid. The DPS check for the tanks specifically was insane (with every guild that cleared it hitting enrage even though the entire raid was over 1600 DPS on the tanks). When you combine that with the damage SC did it made for an extremely frustrating experience. If the SC tank loses aggro at all, it's a wipe. When you ask for every ounce of DPS possible while not being able to pull aggro for even a second and you still BARELY clear it - there's a bit of a tuning issue. The question will really be was it tuned down too far, not whether it needed it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grimsblood Posted December 5, 2012 Share Posted December 5, 2012 (edited) From what I saw, the damage Stormcaller did was not bad enough to illicit a nerf. You have 2 1/2 healers on that tank and so long as he pops is defensive CD's before getting back up everything is ok. The dps check......well let's just say that was inane! I enjoyed the fight because it pushed me as a dps to do better. I think pre-nerf this fight was what Nightmare should be. Anyway. Below is a link to the kill video from Severity Gaming. This is post-nerf . We were all extremely disappointed to log in yesterday and find out that the fight was nerfed. Over the weekend we had devised a to push through the last 38k health we had on the final tank. It is a shame that we could not implement it. Edit: Can someone explain why our S/S for Colonel Vorgath is labeled as "NOK" !? Edited December 5, 2012 by Grimsblood Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
todorovh Posted December 5, 2012 Share Posted December 5, 2012 I don't think that was the assumption. I think that the assumption was that since the poster was speaking toward nerfing 16m content in order to allow more people to complete it and inferring that was a bad thing that the poster was in a guild with a significant amount of NiM 16m pulls in. At this time, there are only 3 guilds with a significant number of Kephess pulls - MoX, FF, and Chosen. As for whether or not these encounters *should* be nerfed.. I feel like the current state they are in shows that the content was not tested at the 16m level thoroughly enough and that the current guilds pulling Kephess are essentially the beta testers. Do we think we're (Chosen) going to be able to do it? Yes. From the perspective of a DPS player that MID PROGRESSION decided to level a different AC to be "more viable" though I will tell you that the fights are tuned in such a way that certain specs are on the cusp of being unusable in the raid. The DPS check for the tanks specifically was insane (with every guild that cleared it hitting enrage even though the entire raid was over 1600 DPS on the tanks). When you combine that with the damage SC did it made for an extremely frustrating experience. If the SC tank loses aggro at all, it's a wipe. When you ask for every ounce of DPS possible while not being able to pull aggro for even a second and you still BARELY clear it - there's a bit of a tuning issue. The question will really be was it tuned down too far, not whether it needed it. i'm sorry .. I should have made it clear that I am a member of FF .. anyway .. it wasn't that long ago when people were complaining that ops were too easy so imo having a bit of a challenge is good. btw I was tanking SC with our dps going crazy on it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ArrrrMatey Posted December 5, 2012 Share Posted December 5, 2012 How are you computing your DPS "On the tanks", as opposed to overall? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gyronamics Posted December 5, 2012 Share Posted December 5, 2012 (edited) How are you computing your DPS "On the tanks", as opposed to overall? Examine combat logs see how much is on the tank. Edited December 5, 2012 by Gyronamics Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grimsblood Posted December 5, 2012 Share Posted December 5, 2012 How are you computing your DPS "On the tanks", as opposed to overall? "On the Tank" dps is not that relevant. It is overall dps for the encounter that matters. If you stick a Dirty Fighting or Lethality Gunslinger/Sniper to clear an add, most of his/her DoT damage is lost in the fight. Ideally you want the last add in the shield dead before the transition phase is over. In order to beat the enrage timer, you will need to push the dps to extreme perfection in when and where to apply the damage. A good mixture of burst and DoT Class's are required. Burst classes can put out decent damage AND push the transitions phases themselves better. DoT class will be able to sustain a good amount of damage on the main boss. There are balances here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Donalj Posted December 5, 2012 Share Posted December 5, 2012 Muahaha RIP Trenchgutter scum! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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