How in hades is this their fault? Maybe you should you know...use the tools that are in the game and on this forum and get some like minded individuals to group up. Stop asking for devs to hold your hand.

It's not a fault or blame to be assigned. It is broken and broken game fixing is what we pay them for so why not ask them to eliminate the very issue that will kill GSF?

It's not a fault or blame to be assigned. It is broken and broken game fixing is what we pay them for so why not ask them to eliminate the very issue that will kill GSF?

except how can BW address the issue of "republic's just better"?

Well, if the current changes on the PTS go live. Gunships wont be worth playing at all.

what changes are those?

Well, if the current changes on the PTS go live. Gunships wont be worth playing at all.

This is the only change specific to gunships that I could find in the update notes.

Railgun weapons now require a minimum charge before firing

That doesn't seem like a big deal to me and certainly sounds like how it should've been from the start

I'm sick and tired of people calling for the removal of gunships. As a class they are balanced. They are snipers. They act and function as snipers. The tactical decisions you have to make in game simply require you to deal with the fact that there are snipers in the game. In all the arguments against gunships and railguns being made, no matter how sophisticated, when you break them down what they amount to is people saying "I don't like snipers". That's it. I have yet to hear of any real balance problem. If you let the gunship stay at range and line up shots undisturbed he's going to snipe you. That's the point. If you sneak up on him or barrel roll to close distance, not straight at him mind you, you will clean his clock. Thats how snipers are supposed to work and in this game it works exactly that way. So the real argument is, should the game have snipers? As a primarily nova pilot who likes sabo probes and hates being sniped I say YES. Gunships are usually my easy kills and they add variety and interesting tactical gameplay elements. The only time I find gunships difficult is when they chain but if two or more are focusing on me that's allowing my team plenty of time to cap satellites. Objective accomplished.

I'm fine with getting one shot K/Oed on my Flashfire once in a while. The problem is that in other games, sniping is difficult. The only time someone should kill anyone with one hit is if they perfectly align a head shot, not when they just happen to press some buttons.

Although, I am still fine with getting one shotted, because Gunships are rather vulnerable at a closer range.

The real problem with GS is their ion railgun, it doesn't require skill to use, as it is practically spammable in its current state, and, it kills their victims' engine and weapon power, plus regeneration. The AOE is also unavoidable no matter how much evasion you stack. Personally, as a Flashfire pilot, I admit my ship is OP, I get over 1.7k req every match with 2x on, and 11~15 medals. These are scores I cannot ever achieve on a strike with out a premade team supporting me. However, with FS or Sting, at least the enemy has a chance to fight back, or run. With a Gunship's ungraded ion rail, it is pretty much a "I Win" button.

The result of this is that when there are more than one GS in an area, the only effective counter becomes flying GS of your own if they have fully upgraded ion and slug rail guns. Again, I am fine with getting one shotted once in a while. I always keep a upgraded ion rail GS in my fleet in case I run into one of these premades on my server who are using ion rail. I understand that the majority of pilots thinks that flying a GS is a lot easier than it is, as I too fly one. But lets face it, it takes a lot less skill to be good at flying a GS than to master a Rycer, or Nova dive.

First, the ion rail is supposedto be getting tweaked so it can no longer be spammed. Second, and more importantly, so what? Getting hit by ion means you're probably going to die. Getting hit by slug means you are probably going to die if you aren't yet already. There's no difference except with ion you still have the potential to get away especially if near cover. In either case you just got sniped and the end result is the same.

I'll make the comparison to my favorite weapon sabotage probes. If you get hit with those you're probably going to die. It's not immediate like with a missile but the end result is likely the same. If you're enemy is experienced, you die.

Bottom line, getting sniped is bad and you will likely die if you are, regardless of which rail was used.

The counter is to be aware of snipers and make them first priority if they're on your satellite. When focused on they arent that effective.

Edit: I also highly disagree that the only counter to multiple gunships is to have multiple gunships yourself.

I love gunships.

They are so much fun to kill with my Flashfire.

I also love playing Gunships as well.

I don't see any good anti-gunship arguments except "waah something happened that I wasn't aware of because my tab key is too hard".

The few that I back are:

1- Bypass is too strong.

On PTR: Bypass is flat out nerfed.

2- Ion spam can drain a group quickly.

On PTR: Minimum charge required to fire

The second change will probably hurt gunships in a bad way, but we'll see. I certainly often nail enemies to almost no life, and then slugtap for a kill- a fair and useful thing. We will see how long that charge required is.

There are other nerfs too: the slug railgun loses some shield pierce and crit rate.

My latest Gunship hunting method:

• Approach Gunship head on with my Pike
  
• Put shields to full power
  
• Let the Gunship blast me while I get a proton torpedo lock
  
• Eat the (moderate) damage as the torpedo fires
  
• Barrel roll into them while switching to short range mode (clusters and blaster) and repairing the damage
  
• Finish them off or watch them panic into uselessness
  

It's hilarious how often this leads them into charging into the jaws of the turrets I was defending after having eaten proton damage. If that slug shot doesn't do the damage they expect it to, gunship pilots tend to freak out.

Edit: Perhaps I should name this maneuver "The Matador"

I've done that since I unlocked the Pike.

On my server there is a guy named Legionn that always uses a gunship. In Kuat Mesas he always goes to A and tries to peak around the corner just far enough away to hit people at the sat. Every time I charge him he barrel rolls into the cliff.

My latest Gunship hunting method:

 

....

Edit: Perhaps I should name this maneuver "The Matador"

I've done something similar to this too, but I have to say- it is pretty dependent on the gunship not being smart.

Some gunships run that dumb +35 copilot, which is useless outside of making me get a halfy when I kill them during it. Good ones will run Bypass. With bypass, the double shield isn't very effective (this is poor, and is being remedied, but it is true for now). You won't get one shot, but you'll be below 40% hull for certain.

ALSO good gunships will have two missile breaks- the few that run only one are not going to walk into a proton, or put themselves that open.

ALSO some gunners will open with ion then go slug, and both will hit. Combine with disto shield when the torp is in flight (or before if you are under 4k), and you'll be taking a lot of damage and doing nothing but wasting his short cools.

As someone who plays ALL the ships each day.

I only get the occasional 1 shot, most of the time this is only when I have activated Bypass and used a full charge slug on a scout, other than that 1 shot's do not happen.

As mentioned previously most often there is a combination of things that result in a very fast kill occurring.

But find I'm spending more time avoiding being killed as a gunship.

Being someone who plays all ships I can easily state the most unbalanced aspect atm is the ion cannon "love" taps, which are being fixed with the min charge times, while I think the effectiveness of the ion cannon should still be reduced (either remove some of the debuffs or remove the AOE component), some fixes are on the way.

First, the ion rail is supposedto be getting tweaked so it can no longer be spammed. Second, and more importantly, so what? Getting hit by ion means you're probably going to die. Getting hit by slug means you are probably going to die if you aren't yet already. There's no difference except with ion you still have the potential to get away especially if near cover. In either case you just got sniped and the end result is the same.

 

I'll make the comparison to my favorite weapon sabotage probes. If you get hit with those you're probably going to die. It's not immediate like with a missile but the end result is likely the same. If you're enemy is experienced, you die.

 

Bottom line, getting sniped is bad and you will likely die if you are, regardless of which rail was used.

 

The counter is to be aware of snipers and make them first priority if they're on your satellite. When focused on they arent that effective.

 

Edit: I also highly disagree that the only counter to multiple gunships is to have multiple gunships yourself.

Yeah, I agree with you that ion is going to fine since it will be requiring a minimum charge rate. The difference between ion now and slug is that ion is spammable, drains all your power quickly, leave you with no recharge, an does AOE damage. While a slug needs a good 3 (or 2.7) seconds plus bypass or a lucky concentrate fire crit to kill you in one hit. Escaping from a slugger GS is easy, surviving an ion shot is not. The only mechanic in the game that can save you is the Engine system for scouts, as it gives a boon to your engine pool, and can also regenerate other powers while it is active.

If you have ever flew against 4 gunships using only ion with Sting buddies hanging around, you would know what I mean by: The only effective counter is flying gunships of your own.

It is rather difficult to use any other weapon as the GS doesn't allow you to get into range. The second longest ranged weapon is proton torpedo, but that only works if ether the gunship doesn't have barrel roll, or you started locking on the moment his roll ended.

However, I agree that in the majority of cases, switching to GS is not absolutely necessary.

I like your use of sabotage probe as comparison, but I think it isn't exactly accurate. I mained Starguard before I unlocked my Pike and Flashfire, and here is a more accurate analogy. I use ion and quad (I know quad seems like a bad choice, but let me explain) cannons, directional shielding, concussion missiles, and retro thruster combo on my Strike. Most of the components are maxed out. My strategy is to get someone to joust with me, open up with ion cannon, drain their power while locking on with a concussion missile. You see, most of the time, this agitate them to pop afterburner, wasting their engine power further, and cutting off their use of an engine component. Right before us two meet, I pop retro thruster, use my concussion missile, which drains any engine power that were regenerated, and switch to quad. In the meantime, my shields are at front, and the moment their shields are down, I switch to quad, highest dps cannon while suffering non of its massive tracking penalties.

I agree that if an experienced player wants you dead enough, you will get blown to pieces.

But what I mentioned above is a method that works almost all the time. Does it really take skill to shoot at the center of the screen at an enemy who CAN'T FIGHT BACK? This is the same with ion rail gun, they lose all control, and cannot retaliate. (The only time I fly my GS is against other GS spamming ion)

While, if you are hit by a sabotage probe, or a slugger rail gun, sure your chances aren't that great ether, but it is nice to know that you are fighting a person who can time things right, rather than a trigger-happy pilot who was trying to shoot you for 4 seconds already.

I've done something similar to this too, but I have to say- it is pretty dependent on the gunship not being smart.

 

Some gunships run that dumb +35 copilot, which is useless outside of making me get a halfy when I kill them during it. Good ones will run Bypass. With bypass, the double shield isn't very effective (this is poor, and is being remedied, but it is true for now). You won't get one shot, but you'll be below 40% hull for certain.

 

ALSO good gunships will have two missile breaks- the few that run only one are not going to walk into a proton, or put themselves that open.

 

ALSO some gunners will open with ion then go slug, and both will hit. Combine with disto shield when the torp is in flight (or before if you are under 4k), and you'll be taking a lot of damage and doing nothing but wasting his short cools.

Funny thing is I've yet to see one break the proton lock. I know they can, and if they did I'd break off but they just don't! I think they're kind of hypnotized by the easy target and don't realize what's happening until the proton hits them and I'm behind them and not dead.

In regards to the ion gun, I don't attempt this if they're glowing blue. No tactic/build applies to all situations and that's as it should be.

Multiple, coordinated gunships is one of the hardest, most frustrating elements of the game. One counter I find works well is to bring in a flashfire and come in from the side (spawning from A or C if possible) and flank the gunship line. You'll likely blindside them and the angle hampers their ability to cover each other.

Well if 2-4 of them are working as a unit... maybe 2-4 of you should work together to take them out?

Op and to all the people who think this is true let me put something into perspective. In swg we had a full sim, cockpit view, and joystick. The game lacked purpose in space, by purpose I mean being able to attack, or defend the death star. This being said JTL offered players enough content that many of us spent a great deal of our time in space.

What we got with gsf was zip nothing but a tiny mini game. To make matters worse it offers no purpose whatsoever. Say you kill people and you get a ship with top gear. Then what? Then what is nothing. GSF is far under the bare of expectations its not even funny. You can scream, and yell oh here is another swg player. Frankly there is no point to gsf. If there is no point then why should I bother? Its not like there combat set up even came close to JTL. This is where I am at. Not going to bother with it at all. Instead of assuming something, perhaps you might have remembered the many posts by people asking for a space sim with purpose. Keep in mind allot of us were not even asking for everything just something close or in the ball park. These posts posted sense launch. So instead of perpetuating the idea that its balance is why people dont play gsf. It actually has to do with other important aspects, or the lack there of.

Op and to all the people who think this is true let me put something into perspective. In swg we had a full sim, cockpit view, and joystick. The game lacked purpose in space, by purpose I mean being able to attack, or defend the death star. This being said JTL offered players enough content that many of us spent a great deal of our time in space.

 

What we got with gsf was zip nothing but a tiny mini game. To make matters worse it offers no purpose whatsoever. Say you kill people and you get a ship with top gear. Then what? Then what is nothing. GSF is far under the bare of expectations its not even funny. You can scream, and yell oh here is another swg player. Frankly there is no point to gsf. If there is no point then why should I bother? Its not like there combat set up even came close to JTL. This is where I am at. Not going to bother with it at all. Instead of assuming something, perhaps you might have remembered the many posts by people asking for a space sim with purpose. Keep in mind allot of us were not even asking for everything just something close or in the ball park. These posts posted sense launch. So instead of perpetuating the idea that its balance is why people dont play gsf. It actually has to do with other important aspects, or the lack there of.

I played SWG and JTL a lot when it was out, loved the fact that there were things to do in space that affected the ground game (harvesting comes to mind). Loved the design system that you could use to build your ships with what you liked best.

But I have to ask, with the craptastic rail system Space PvE system we had for 2 years, what did you expect? It is a mini-game... gives you experience and credits, and let's you shoot down dirty Imps (or Pubs). Did you expect to earn new armor for the ground game? New saber/blaster?

Well if 2-4 of them are working as a unit... maybe 2-4 of you should work together to take them out?

Agreed!

^ Me

it is great for leveling to 55, but at 55 and with maxxed ship, I really don't have a reason to participate. If we could get some rewards / COMs I would participate.

Reputation and Lore you will have. A new Gamemode test your skills it will. In the making more there is, probably.

Short: Anyone care to read their Newspost thoroughly?

I played SWG and JTL a lot when it was out, loved the fact that there were things to do in space that affected the ground game (harvesting comes to mind). Loved the design system that you could use to build your ships with what you liked best.

 

But I have to ask, with the craptastic rail system Space PvE system we had for 2 years, what did you expect? It is a mini-game... gives you experience and credits, and let's you shoot down dirty Imps (or Pubs). Did you expect to earn new armor for the ground game? New saber/blaster?

No I expected it to be based on skill no auto target, I expected to be able to use my joystick, and I expected to have my cockpit view at the least. So yea to me it was a disappointment. Is it so much to hope for perhaps that we have guild capital ships fighting each other in space?

No I expected it to be based on skill no auto target, I expected to be able to use my joystick, and I expected to have my cockpit view at the least. So yea to me it was a disappointment. Is it so much to hope for perhaps that we have guild capital ships fighting each other in space?

There is no auto target (you still have to move your rectacle where it needs to be in order to get a hit), and the other 2 requirements scream of nothing more than preference and self indulgence...needing a joystick and cockpit view or else you won't bother with it is akin to a 6 year old stomping their feet in the cereal isle demanding sugar coated cereal.

As for SWG's space fighting...apparently you are like so many others with rose tinted goggles on...or have you forgotten he ships with laughably small hit boxes where you would see blaster shots hit the ship yet go through it because the hit box was so unrealistically small?

I still want a more realistic movie based fighter...scouts should be one hit kills by EVERYONE. As THAT is what a scout is...you have no armor, no shields, your hull could be cracked by virtually anything hitting you reasonably hard.

Strikefighters should be the backbone...90% of each side should be flying them. They should be the best armed, best defended ships.

Gunships should pretty much be just as they are...artillery platforms, however their flight ability should be lowered even farther to balance them properly as mobile artillery platforms.

If the balance isn't such that everyone wants to fly strikefighters than they haven't balanced things out properly yet. Scouts don't have enough drawback (yes they need to be far more frail to be true scout class ships) and gunships need their mobility lessened even farther (I would actually suggest removing their ability to use engine skills to break lock ons and instead give them decoy skills to fool missiles...that way they don't get mobility options).

This would bring it more in line with what you see in the movies.