They're hell-bent to push people out of the game. Not worth arguing over.

 

I have yet to see one reasonable answer to the reasonable question one would expect an active supporter to be able to answer: How does this change BENEFIT the game?

 

There seem to be a lot of drawbacks to the change:

 

• Fewer flashpoints being run
  
• Fewer operations being run
  
• Fewer risks being taken overall
  
• People unsubscribing
  

 

So, supporters, please, tell me what great BENEFIT to the game comes from this change that overcomes all those drawbacks.

if you can prove ANY of those things happening then all power to you but you can't, FP's are being run just as often, ops are being run just as often, fewer risks is actually a good thing for ops.......

the only negative to it is that people have to run dailies, it's not that big of a deal. you are making much more of a deal out of it then you should be.

There are tons more negatives. The impact to PuGs/GF alone is going to kill off players. I was one of those guys who tolerated new players in HM FPs. I didn't care if we wiped and wiped and wiped...I was helping them. Not any more.

Again, there's NOTHING positive about this. NOTHING!

We'll see what happens when people cancel subs left and right because people can't afford to play end content anymore. I think some here will eat their words then.

BW/EA probably don't care since they have big revenue from other games. Haven't you noticed the lack of customer support here? They don't care because everyone complains and there's no motivation for them to care. All they see is complain, complain, complain.

As a dev I would of done this to laugh at people.

I'm sorry I have not read the whole thread (it's long - which is reassuring sign!), but wanted to jump in to say these are the ones that effect me personally as a casual player. So a new player messes up - but instead of being given the chance to learn they get kicked because the cost to teaching them is too high. But because they got kicked they couldn't learn and even if they don't get scared off they will never be able to learn. Vicious circle ....

 

I'm in the category of 3 above - credit poor - and now have to run dalies just to afford to play the parts of the game I enjoy.

What server are you on - my guild wouldn't have a problem helping you out if you are on The Shadowlands.

BJ

Unless we're not at home where we could play the game, but please don't allow reality from interferring with your faulty assumptions. You're doing so well with them.

Then maybe you should be doing what you are suppose to be doing instead of playing the forums.

BW/EA probably don't care since they have big revenue from other games. Haven't you noticed the lack of customer support here? They don't care because everyone complains and there's no motivation for them to care. All they see is complain, complain, complain.

 

As a dev I would of done this to laugh at people.

So let me get this straight, you would delibrately sabotage your business asset in order to laugh at people.

I don't even....

Money can be made in this game. I certainly have a decent pile of credits. Not everyone does.

 

And it doesn't need to go back to the way it was. If using non-modded gear was costing ridiculous amounts in credits to repair, then that should be reduced, not everyone else's raised.

If people aren't willing to try things and die then you get:

- harsher reactions to clueless newbies (and that's already bad enough so making it worse is definitely not a good direction)

- fewer attempts at ops bosses

- fewer guilds doing progression ops

 

There's no good reason to raise these costs. None.

So by your logic, if there was a bug that caused modded gear to cost less to repair, then the bug should be left in place and all repair costs lowered to equal the bugged cost?

By that logic if the bug was the other way around and it cost more than it should to repair unmodded gear then the bug should remain in place and costs for modded gear rasied to match the bugged cost? I find it hard to believe you would be in favor of this.

So, is this a case of "Fix the bugs that we don't like, but if we like a bug, then don't fix it and make the rest of the game match the bug"?

Then maybe you should be doing what you are suppose to be doing instead of playing the forums.

Assumptions, man, they're a real difficulty for you aren't they? I have a job where I have downtime. So yes, everything's done that needs done. But seriously, continue with the assumptions, roll right along.

What personal attack?

Infact, don't log in if the big bad monster is going to hurt poor wittle tux.

This one. I even quoted it.

BW/EA probably don't care since they have big revenue from other games. Haven't you noticed the lack of customer support here? They don't care because everyone complains and there's no motivation for them to care. All they see is complain, complain, complain.

 

As a dev I would of done this to laugh at people.

Actually the bioware dev's due view their forums as toxic places full of negativity and don't like to look at them no matter what good things they do, they will always be shunned.

and since EA made a lot of money from its last quarter I doubt they care about the subs because they'll still make money off of the ones left.

So let me get this straight, you would delibrately sabotage your business asset in order to laugh at people.

 

I don't even....

You realize this game has become more of a liability for them?

And yes, when they make a lot more revenue from other assets.

This one. I even quoted it.

Thats not an attack, thats just using you as an example tux.

If you wanted an attack, well, my example thread has been removed.

As someone said above, anyone who is having issues just come to The Harbinger. My guild won't mind helping you at all.

I'd join your guild in a heartbeat because you guys have some common sense and knowledge about you.

Again, why would ANYONE want to pay more for something?

 

That's the issue in a nutshell. it's been this way for a year, now its much higher but I get no benefit form this ( nor does anyone of course).

 

I cannot really understand why anyone would not have some issue with this. Perhaps next time you buy something in game, just pay double, as if paying alot more for the same thing you have had for a year doesn't matter then why not just pay more for everything?

I remember when gas cost about 35 cents a gallon. Am I happy to be paying 10X that much now? No, I'm not. But guess what, prices change--sometimes for the better, sometimes for the worse. This applies to games as well as real life.

Yup. I do. It was a 3 person guild's first LI run. I did my best, but I couldn't solo it.

LI is a different story then standard HM fp's so fair enough there but to any other HM fp it's not really hard

But basically there to my knowledge has been no sign of increased inflation to cause a need to increase the cash sinks. Certainly not to the extent that this change seems to inadvertently done.

This is still a speculation.

Bioware has their own Gameplay Telemetry Analyst, who analyses this sort of data:

http://www.swtor.com/blog/meet-developers-jonathan-crow

And something tells me, they saw a slowly growing inflation, before changing the power of the money sink.

I am fairly sure they will give it a month or more, before concluding if the change was truly needed or not. Outraging players has little to do with that. After all, any change splits players into the satisfied and the dissatisfied camps.

So by your logic, if there was a bug that caused modded gear to cost less to repair, then the bug should be left in place and all repair costs lowered to equal the bugged cost?

Yes.

By that logic if the bug was the other way around and it cost more than it should to repair unmodded gear then the bug should remain in place and costs for modded gear rasied to match the bugged cost? I find it hard to believe you would be in favor of this.

No. Because that's actually what has happened here. Forget whether this was a bug or not. Look at the results. Previously, it cost more to repair unmodded gear than modded gear. So they raised the cost to repair modded gear. And I'm not in favor of this.

So, is this a case of "Fix the bugs that we don't like, but if we like a bug, then don't fix it and make the rest of the game match the bug"?

And yes, lol. Essentially. Whether this is a bug or not, you need to look at the results. The results of lower repair costs for modded gear in 1.2 were positive. The fact that unmodded gear did not benefit from this change should be adjusted.

They're hell-bent to push people out of the game. Not worth arguing over.

 

I have yet to see one reasonable answer to the reasonable question one would expect an active supporter to be able to answer: How does this change BENEFIT the game?

 

There seem to be a lot of drawbacks to the change:

 

• Fewer flashpoints being run
  
• Fewer operations being run
  
• Fewer risks being taken overall
  
• People unsubscribing
  

 

So, supporters, please, tell me what great BENEFIT to the game comes from this change that overcomes all those drawbacks.

It's already been mentioned - mechanics in the game to keep the economy balanced. Very important part of any MMO. Just because we haven't seen the hyperinflation before the change doesn't mean we wouldn't see it soon enough, just like your list above supposes what is going to happen, but I have yet to see any change in my GF pop times.

BJ

I think most folks agree in general:

• Repair costs are needed in MMO's (Not the issue - increase is the topic)
  
• The "Fix" or whatever just happened jacked up the costs dramatically.
  
• New costs are not clearly understood and depend on the type of gear.
  
• Casual gamers and F2P folks are going to be impacted the most.
  
• Progression guilds will most likely move forward no matter the cost.
  

The FALLOUT of this change:

• PUG's for FP/OPS are going to decrease due to cost of doing them w/o guildies or friends
  
• HOSTILE FP/OPS for PUGS will make the game generally less fun to play.
  
• Less people are going to do Daily FP/OPS and this is going to have a negative impace on the game in whole.
  
• Having less seasoned players running FP/OPS makes it harder for new players to learn things w/o guildies.
  
• RAID Teams will most likely start capping number of tries on certain OPS due to cost limitations.
  

I don't mean to come across as an elitest or what not, but to be frank I'm not taking a chance on NOOB's costing me more $$ by running GF based ques without full premade groups (friends & guildies). I've been fortunate enough to make some okay money crafting, but that doesn't mean I'm going to blow what money I have on repair bills as I don't really need the gear in a majority of the HM OPS. (New Content coming soon I won't mind burning credits, but I'm saving money for that content) Right now I've stopped running GF ques with my geared Tank, Healer and two DPS unless I'm doing premade groups.

SUGGESTION: Correct the cost change and put it back to what it was (Or close) so everyone is seeing roughly the same cost as a week ago. With the new content coming down the pipe pretty quickly here I think BW has a big fork in the road here. Go LEFT and keep things "As-Is" and cost the game more players or go RIGHT and correct the change made to Pre-1.7 levels in order to keep the already unstable user base a little more "happy" until new stuff arrives.

This is still a speculation.

 

Bioware has their own Gameplay Telemetry Analyst, who analyses this sort of data:

http://www.swtor.com/blog/meet-developers-jonathan-crow

 

And something tells me, they saw a slowly growing inflation, before changing the power of the money sink.

 

I am fairly sure they will give it a month or more, before concluding if the change was truly needed or not. Outraging players has little to do with that. After all, any change splits players into the satisfied and the dissatisfied camps.

If the patch note read "increased repair costs to compensate for..." or something to that effect I would agree with you. I do agree that in a few months after they have measured the effect it has they will probably re-adjust it.

As it is I suspect this was a case of a developer seeing a bug, fixing it and it not going through proper design/testing for the effect it had on the economy.

People vote with their feet. We'll see.

i'm sure they'll feel that 5% of playerbase who hardly ever spend anything on this game really really bad man

Can you be more specific about "more careful with money"?

 

The only impact it's had on how I spend money is that I won't do flash points or ops any more, which seems like a much bigger detriment to the community.

 

Please keep in mind that you need to overcome the negatives of raiders cancelling subs over this in your explanation.

 

Thanks.

I really want some numbers on these "raiders cancelling subs." comments. I haven't seen it yet.

It's already been mentioned - mechanics in the game to keep the economy balanced. Very important part of any MMO. Just because we haven't seen the hyperinflation before the change doesn't mean we wouldn't see it soon enough, just like your list above supposes what is going to happen, but I have yet to see any change in my GF pop times.

 

BJ

If the reason this was being done was economic I would have no problem with it. That is not (at least as stated in the patch notes) the case.