We all know Sorc's have survivability problems in PvP and their DPS is arguably lower than Heavy Armor "Tank" classes in game.

 

The AE nerf that Sorcerers suffered was not balanced by improved defenses or improved single target DPS mechanics. This plus the damage buffs to other DPS spec'd medium to heavy armor classes is what has created the imbalance for our class.

 

Here is my recommended fix: Fix lightning tree so that the top end spell is insta cast on a reasonable recast timer. Adjust Force Lightning so that it does internal damage. Decrease the recast timer on our bubble (Only if cast on self) to improve survivability.

 

For the doubters that do not think Sorcerers need buffs: Look around see how many Sorcerers PvP compared to Marauders/Juggs/Powertechs ... the proof is in the numbers and the fact that most Ranked WZ groups would rather take most any other DPS class if given the option.

 

BTW this is a DPS discussion not a Heals discussion ...

Yeah I really don't know about this. I play with some dps sorcs and they will usually be at the tops of the warzone in terms of damage. Most run madness and the numbers they can put out is impressive.

You could make the Force Lightning Internal Damage a spec ability high enough up in the Lightning Tree that someone would have to give up the top madness tree abilities. The lightning tree is not a real option at the moment and the survivability is a joke compared to other classes. We should IMO be able to melt down tank classes since we have little dmg mitigation abilities ourselves ... save run from combat. Therein would lie the balance. Tanks get melted by sorcs ... then you need to kill the sorc if you dont want to be melted.

 

I do not want Sorcs to be easy to play or unbalanced. I'm saying the balance has swung too far and if they continue to be the easiest class to melt ... then they should also be the hot knife through butter in their ability to melt other heavy armor classes. Why should the melting only work one way ???

Well that's what is going on with assassin/shadow right now. There is no real point to play infiltration/deception as the other trees offer more survivability and dps then it. Now I know I am comparing melee builds with a possibility of a tank but same boat, you either have to go tank or madness or a hybrid. Same situation for sorc/sage its either healer or madness/balance or hybrid.

 

I have not played sorc myself but have friends that play it fairly well and they are all madness speced as they think lightning is lackluster. I think it could use maybe a little tiny love but I thought the same way about deception until a dev said its fine and you need to L2P the spec.

Essentially the problem boils down to this... If Med/Heavy armor classes can do the same level of damage as a light armored Sorc with little survivability options except run away and hope you dont get focused stun/mez/dead. Then why play a Sorc ? For role play ??

 

Clearly other classes have spec issues. However for the Sorc the lack of survivability with comparable DPS is the problem. Either Sorc's get more Tanky with survivability options or their DPS in the Lightning Tree becomes more internal dmg type. I mean the top Spell on the Lightning Tree is a 2 second Cast !?! Are you #*&$in kidding me ???

Edited August 13, 2012 by Nagul

I also think it should be noted in here that when Sorcs put up big damage numbers in WZs, it's because we're spamming Affliction on everybody we see, not because our DPS is working correctly.

To me there are two types of DPS sorcs.

 

Type 1 - Force jump in and smash their faces while they fumble for hotkeys then interupt their big lightening with a Force Status/Choke > Dispatch > dead sorc.

 

Type 2 - Eat lightening while closing on them just to eat a knockback as soon as you pop your Ravage/Master Strike, force jump back in to blow some more damage on their absorb bubble. Then, they speed outta range and you eat more lightening. Rinse and repeat and pray for some healz.

 

The point is they are the same build and the only difference is the player's experience because the good sorcs I run into are always a quick trip back to the spawn.

Edited August 13, 2012 by jstergar

To me there are two types of DPS sorcs.

 

Type 2 - Eat lightening while closing on them just to eat a knockback as soon as you pop your Ravage/Master Strike, force jump back in to blow some more damage on their absorb bubble. Then, they speed outta range and you eat more lightening. Rinse and repeat and pray for some healz.

 

The point is they are the same build and the only difference is the player's experience because the good sorcs I run into are always a quick trip back to the spawn.

 

You realize the Force Lightning only does 400 - 500 dmg per tick on the average heavy armor class ? Then they walk up to you or pull you to them and smack you down for 4-6K dmg. You can run away if you're not stunned or pulled or snared... still the DPS med and heavy armor classes mitigate more damage than you can comparativelyl all the while dishing out more damage to you.

 

This is not purely a L2P or play style problem. Trust me

Yeah, because I'm very much that #2 sorc. I can actually kill undergeared mara's especially when they aren't full health (and they just assume I'm sorc type 1).

 

Put an equally skilled mara/sent against me though, and I'm toast. It's only a matter of seeing if I can at least get him down to half health before I die.

I played my sniper, my PT, and now im playing a sorc. can say out of all the classes the sorc is the most PVP utility driven with a bunch of CC and nice damage output. I think the problem is people arent playing into their class and still have that....

 

-Let me jack sparrow into the fight with a swirling glowstick do 30 million damage and tarzan away.

 

From playing all the classes i mentioned above ive had to come up with different method of working their magic. With the sorc i can tell you i can drive people INSANE pillar humping CCing and just over all being a nuissance and by the time they realize it, well, its over.

Lower requirement for "next tier abilties" in the trees so madness sorcs can reach the good Lightning tree abilities, the ones related to force management, and up the dots. Possibly also a boost to shock/project. I want power and not some new defensive CD.

 

That said, I would have loved to be able to wear medium armor as a sorc. Not for the rating but because the sorc outfits look horrible.

Edited August 13, 2012 by MidichIorian

That said, I would have loved to be able to wear medium armor as a sorc. Not for the rating but because the sorc outfits look horrible.

 

Amen to that.

 

im lightning speced, and i do fairly well in WZs. i can get an average of 9 medals but i have to stay out of the frey or i get kiled fast.

Yeah, I don't know. If force lighting was internal, madness would be getting a huge buff in order for lightning to get a tiny one. It's entirely possible you're leapfrogging madness to the top of the heap in terms of raid damage with this change.

 

And it's tough enough being harassed by madness now if you're a healer, but if they're spammable ignores armor...lets just say this buff also constitutes another merc nerf.

 

I mean, if Bioware wants to do that, I won't complain, but I'm not really sure that you've thought this through.

Well I think the point that's trying to be made here is that all other classes that can DPS do Spike damage where the Sorc has dots as the set up time for the lightning spec is far too long, PVE Lightning all the way, but PVP in half the time it takes you to get your proc's up a Mara's grinding your face! Yes Sorc can get some good numbers but how much of that is effective damage? IE when was the last time you saw a Sorc burst someone down?

 

You would expect a class that has around 20% damage reduction to be able to dish it out "Glass Cannon" However this is not the case. Pre 1.2 sure you could do some really good spike and in my opinion compared to the numbers I'm seeing other DPS classes pull these days there about the same. The reason people complained was that they were too lazy to focus the one guy doing a large amount of damage who only had 18-20% damage reduction. A better nerf would have been to remove the bonus damage wrath granted on Chain lightning, rather than nerf it altogether. However what is done is done.

 

The basic problem is that dots are very easy to out heal where as controlled spike isn't and that's where the Sorc falls over in my opinion. Its set up time is slower than most other classes in a DPS role and in order to do the same damage and take into account that you have to stand still and cast or channel. Comparing that to a Sniper that has the same range, they have far more tricks to mitigate damage and multiple knockbacks (Spec permitted) plus increased armour and more burst.

 

I'd just like to add that my fully War hero Sorc sits gathering dust, While i play my Jugg. It would seem that Bioware only want Sorcs to heal in rated. Shame as I'm sure there are allot of really annoyed Sorc DPS players out there that are told by good rated groups that they are only substandard compared to other DPS spec classes, please reroll heals.

 

Anyhow that's my two pence regarding Sorc DPS. Enjoy

 

Mourn

I play with good sorc/sages all the time. IMO the only change the AC needs is maybe a bit more mobility. The damage these guys put out is very competitive. My idea, that I have floated to some of my buddies and they all think its a good idea, is, in the right hand tree the ability that removes the CD of lightning should instead allow them to cast while they move, a bit similar to what jug/guards have with force choke. Anyone trying to say that sorc/sage are way out of line as far as damage is having a problem that higher end players just do not see.

i currently have a max geared sorcerer and even with full war hero i get dropped instantly by high burst classes like sentinel 1v1. i still manage to pull pretty nice damage all over if i spam dots on everyone i can see, but our survivability doesn't even exist and makes us pretty worthless in most high-end content

Actually I play my Sorc at the highest level in game and have enjoyed the class since release. I've run in many high end PvP WZ groups... so your comment about this doesn't fit in with the end game for Sorc's is quit rediculous.

 

If you really want to know what most High End Sorcerers think see the comment below ...

I'd just like to add that my fully War hero Sorc sits gathering dust, While i play my Jugg. It would seem that Bioware only want Sorcs to heal in rated. Shame as I'm sure there are allot of really annoyed Sorc DPS players out there that are told by good rated groups that they are only substandard compared to other DPS spec classes, please reroll heals.

 

Anyhow that's my two pence regarding Sorc DPS. Enjoy

 

Mourn

Its not rediculous, its a fact, DPS sorcs can fit in just fine in a RWZ group, the fact that you say they cant seems to point to the fact that you are missing something, not the class in and of itself. As I said though, if they are supposed to be a mobile turret they need a little bit more of the mobile part.

Its not rediculous, its a fact, DPS sorcs can fit in just fine in a RWZ group, the fact that you say they cant seems to point to the fact that you are missing something, not the class in and of itself. As I said though, if they are supposed to be a mobile turret they need a little bit more of the mobile part.

 

I guess you have your own right to your own opinion, do you play a sorc? I'm just posting what I've been told mate. Plus have you seen a top ranking team take sorc DPS? Just saying its not as viable as othe DPS classes.

Having rolled a sorc and most have probably seen my post defending them. I feel like they're a pretty impressive support class. They do lack burst, but as back up DPS.... wailing lightning onto melee DPS targets or two sorcs as we've been doing is pretty beast.

 

The MAIN problem I feel is the GCD and animations. On my marauder and PT I don't feel like I'm ever delayed by a GCD. I would like to think maybe it's something I'm doing wrong and I'll smooth things out over time and get the timing down blah blah blah... but I am consistently putting up top tier numbers on all characters, so even though my timing will get better.... obviously I'm not doing too bad if I'm out performing other sorcs and the FOTM's in these WZ's.

 

Anyways, my point. The GCD and animations are hurting me bad... I always feel like I'm waiting on these damn things... I don't have that problem with my marauder for example. When I roll annihilation... I can hit deadly saber and it's there... I don't have to wait on an animation or the GCD... I hit the ability and move on. I rolled annihilation for months and I don't think I could tell you what the animation for deadly saber even looks like. There are so many moves that I feel like I'm waiting on... eliminate that and just smooth it out for lack of a better word. Don't force me to wait on the static barrier animation or other animations... don't make me wait on a GCD for lightning when my CD shows no wait time.

 

I think this would make a huge difference and increase the possibility for some decent burst damage on top of the dots. With a few dots, a death field and a shock even... could deal some decent damage. Getting rid of the GCD's could allow for that to deal a potential decent amount of damage within a short time frame, a decent burst of damage even.

 

Anyways, the sorc is new to me and as much as I think it's beastly... I get it. I understand the complaints even though I don't fully agree in it's uselessness as most describe. I just know that animations and GCD's were not anything that slowed me down until I rolled a sorc.

Edited August 13, 2012 by UGLYMRJ

Its not rediculous, its a fact, DPS sorcs can fit in just fine in a RWZ group, the fact that you say they cant seems to point to the fact that you are missing something, not the class in and of itself. As I said though, if they are supposed to be a mobile turret they need a little bit more of the mobile part.

 

I think what he's getting at is sorcs can't fit into a ranked warzone group as DPSers because the common belief is that sorcs can't fit into a ranked warzone group as DPSers. In other words, they can't get the job because people think they're useless, not because they're actually useless.

 

Personally, I'd say Madness can, but the only thing they do well that's valuable in ranked that some other class doesn't do better is harass healers. They aren't useless, but they aren't more valuable than a pyro of carnage mara because of how backloaded their damage is. Of course, I could make the same case that a Jugg tank isn't near as useful as the other two tanks, but you still see all three.

I agree a reduction in GCD would help for example the 20% cast speed buff for 10 seconds, how much of that is waisted in GCD? How ever I think the argument is that Sorc stood next to other classes with what they have to bring to the battle is still substandard. This i guess is why the top groups say "rerol heals please", why take a support damage dealer when you can take a class with more damage and tricks up its sleve. Its utiliy is usfull how ever in organised pvp very easy to counter.

I understand the point how ever you try it. In les than one CC your dead ether pulled by PT or jumped on by two Annihilation Mara kill you in less than 1.5 seconds. its now 7 vs 8 in a team fight. Why becuase Sorc DPS is an easy kill.

I also think it should be noted in here that when Sorcs put up big damage numbers in WZs, it's because we're spamming Affliction on everybody we see, not because our DPS is working correctly.

 

Not true, I single target damage in all wz's with an occasional force in balance and pull 500 to 600k.

Edited August 13, 2012 by kcol

Not true, I single target damage in all wz's with an occasional force in balance and pull 500 to 600k.

It would be really interesting to know where you 500k-1M people, regardless of class, are playing because despite that I play a lot of warzones across three different servers (two of them being PvP servers) I'm more or less never seeing those numbers anymore. The games are usually over before someone has reached 400K.