the only thing ridiculous about it is the fact that people keep parroting it when it's not true.

 

I was out. I roll for something I want, just like the other people who want it.

 

I'm fine with that.

 

 

No, at 50 I use my companions quite a bit.

 

Strawman argument, along with an ad hominem fallacy.

 

You just needed one more for the fallacy hat trick. To bad.

 

 

The only straw man is your constant defense of your need to need for gear for companions.

Every excuse you make is a straw man...

 

Companions do not help you in any group content where you would get the gear you need for them.

That alone ends all your pathetic selfish arguments.

Oh and apparently the DEV's agree and will be taking actions to not allow your type of needing for companion actions.

Edited February 21, 2012 by Nategray

People will never get a consensus on this topic.

 

Either Bioware implements a system that prevents it, or they continue to let groups handle it.

 

Both options will leave some happy and some unhappy...make the best out of it.

 

In my opinion the picture you see at log in, takes priority when in game (they are the constants). Companions are secondary to that character (they are the variables).

 

If everyone takes the same stance, our constants get the best loot when grouped, and if no constants need the loot for an upgrade, then the variables get a shot.

 

Equal for all.

 

Some may say rolling on everything regardless is equal for all. *shrug*

 

Not everyone will agree and not everyone has to. Until a mechanism is possibly put in place to verify BW's stance, all we have is communication before you take the time to be grouped.

 

Even with communication you will always have liars who say one thing and act oppositely or even the case of "accidental" looting.

 

Its just a game. Punch your chair, have a beer (for those over 21 in the USA!) take a stroll outside, and then come back to play.

 

Not really worth 90+ pages of debate.

Companions do not help you in any group content where you would get the gear you need for them.

 

That means I need a group of players to get the gear I need for my companions.

 

What's your problem then?

 

 

Oh and apparently the DEV's agree and will be taking actions to not allow your type of needing for companion actions.

 

Where did you read that? I read one dev inferring that he might not thinks it's right. I don't think he ever inferred that was the feeling of all devs. Nor did he ever say they would take any steps. He said "he'd see about putting it into the works".

 

Can you link me to your version please?

 

In my opinion the picture you see at log in, takes priority when in game (they are the constants).

 

Only one problem with that. To get your 'constant' to the state of play it is at in the game, required the companions?

 

Which, muddies the waters a bit.

Well I'm not doing the group run to gear you up. I'm sorry, that may sound harsh, but when I do a run, I usually do it to get gear for me and my companions.

 

There are times I'll do a run specifically to get gear for another player, but, typically, people do these runs for gear for themselves, not you.

 

If you decide to roll pass/greed, and I roll need, how am I taking advantage? It was your decision to roll greed/pass, not mine. There is no taking advantage of anything.

 

You do realize you just enforced my point. It's selfish and not looking to help everyone get an equal opportunity. I accept that every situation is different. But, the problem lies with those who are ninja'ing by waiting to see what others do. If you want to click NEED before everyone else, then at least they have a heads up on what you're doing.

 

But, don't click NEED after everyone else and claim it's "for my companion", or "I need the money". That's taking advantage of the situation and why so many hate the system.

Player character need should always trump companion character need. Since companions are not as effective as players, a piece of equipment on a companion is not granting as much benefit as it would on a player character. Therefore, rolling "Need" for a companion is a devaluation of the item.

I've known a handful of people who say they need something for their companion, and it ends up on their 2nd or 3rd alt instead.

 

 

Unfortunately it's the way of the internet and no it's not my way of doing things or really any of my guildies, but it happens daily. If this is new for some, that people "ninja" items and then taunt you about it, start getting used to it now or just quit playing. It's been happening for years and it won't change anytime soon.

You do realize you just enforced my point. It's selfish and not looking to help everyone get an equal opportunity. I accept that every situation is different.

 

Your argument breaks down right there I'm afraid. Everyone does get an equal opportunity. When we kill the boss and get to the loot. Each player has an 'equal' opportunity to roll. I am in no way effecting that.

 

Conversely, the opposite is true. You are trying to effect it. You are saying because you decided to roll greed/pass I have to do the same, which is you trying to tell me what to do. Selfish?

 

But, the problem lies with those who are ninja'ing by waiting to see what others do.

 

It is not Ninja'ing. It never was. If you roll pass and someone else then rolls need, they win. You offered them that choice. You also had the choice to roll need and be in with a chance of winning.

 

That the other player rolled need and won, is not ninja'ing.

 

If you want to click NEED before everyone else, then at least they have a heads up on what you're doing.

 

You have moved onto a completely different topic. No-one to date, to my knowledge, has raised the issue of someone 'physically waiting' to see what you do, before they roll.

 

Personally, I don't care what others roll. My choice is dependent on whether I need the item. If I do, I roll need, if not I pass or greed.

 

 

But, don't click NEED after everyone else and claim it's "for my companion", or "I need the money". That's taking advantage of the situation and why so many hate the system.

 

There are 2 parts to this. 1. The player has the choice, by way of killing the boss, to roll whatever they like. 2. You also have the choice, and if you selected to pass or greed, then you are relinquishing all claim to 'need' and thereby saying 'if you need it, take it'.

People can play philosopher as much as they want about whats the most "fair", but I could care less.

 

If I'm in a group, my opinion matters just like everyone else. If people cannot come up with a meeting of the minds, they shouldn't group together. I choose to play with people who agree with me on the "loot for companion being greed" issue, for the same reasons I spend any other social time with people who tend to have similar beliefs and ideas of whats fair and enjoyable.

 

What I think is dishonest, is the refusing to acknowledge that rolling need for companions is going against the grain, and not speaking up about their intentions ahead of time because they either feel their way is more righteous to begin with, or because they're worried that they will not be invited because of it.

 

And I'll go ahead and end my usual note, thankfully this is just a hot issue on the forums, and not a real problem within the game.

Player character need should always trump companion character need. Since companions are not as effective as players, a piece of equipment on a companion is not granting as much benefit as it would on a player character. Therefore, rolling "Need" for a companion is a devaluation of the item.

 

I'm sorry, this is just your opinion, it is not fact. We're debating in facts here.

Only one problem with that. To get your 'constant' to the state of play it is at in the game, required the companions?

 

Which, muddies the waters a bit.

 

Not really (but again, opinions).

 

This game is fairly easy. Regular questing and content can be done easily with a half-tush geared companion.

 

I was tearing "content" up with my Merc around mid-30's when I realized Mako still had a lot of lvl 15-20ish gear.

 

Even after upgrading her, there really was not a huge impact that I noticed, at least not as much as when I upgrade my main character.

 

Of course it is good to upgrade companions, but I dont think anyone (even yourself) feels it is as important as your main.

 

If you do, are you saying you actually flip a coin if a nice piece of gear drops that would fit both you or your companion, or do you no questions upgrade your main first?

He's not talking about the "why" only the "what"

 

You can speculate that the why is because they think that needing for companions is bad.

 

or you can speculate that the why is because they think that needing for companions causes them more work on the forums and in CSR tickets than the alternative, so they're doing what any developers do: they add whatever will make things easier on them. (this is driven by laziness, one of the three virtues of a programmer)

 

I'm not really concerned about whether or not their reasons are philosophical or practical. I'm just saying this person did make a clear inference that they have a position and that position is that - for now - they think need should be for characters only.

 

Maybe that's because they're lazy. Maybe it's because of their beliefs on the matter. Doesn't change the position he's inferred.

 

Will that position change? Who knows. Maybe. If the position of the majority of players shift, it probably will.

 

I'm not even saying I agree with it. I'm just saying the inference is pretty clear.

 

And I know you have absolutely no reason to take me at my word here, but I can tell you in my anecdotal experience as someone that worked for many years at a company with a strong forum community... my company was VERY strict on what opinions it allowed its employees to post on the forums. It was absolutely crammed into our heads that anything we say on the forums was representing the company. We didn't even allow a preface of "This is my opinion and not the opinion of the company" because people inevitably ignore that disclaimer.

 

The guy could be stepping over his bounds with that comment, but it's not unreasonable to assume that he's speaking for the company and it's not unreasonable to assume their stance - whether philosophical or practical - is that need is for the player character.

 

That may change, sure, but for now, it's perfectly fair for people to use that quote as evidence (NOT proof) of their stance on the issue.

 

Being fair, though, there is another inference in that quote that I think the "greed" camp is leaving out. That entire quote gave me the distinct impression that they don't consider this very important at all and that players should really just come together and self-regulate. The fact that this arguably vague comment is their only comment on the matter tells me they see it as pretty low on their list of priorities (and probably rightly so).

People can play philosopher as much as they want about whats the most "fair", but I could care less.

 

If I'm in a group, my opinion matters just like everyone else. If people cannot come up with a meeting of the minds, they shouldn't group together. I choose to play with people who agree with me on the "loot for companion being greed" issue, for the same reasons I spend any other social time with people who tend to have similar beliefs and ideas of whats fair and enjoyable.

 

What I think is dishonest, is the refusing to acknowledge that rolling need for companions is going against the grain, and not speaking up about their intentions ahead of time because they either feel their way is more righteous to begin with, or because they're worried that they will not be invited because of it.

 

And I'll go ahead and end my usual note, thankfully this is just a hot issue on the forums, and not a real problem within the game.

 

Going against whose 'grain', yours or mine?

 

Are you claiming yours is more important than mine?

Rolling need for a companion when someone could use it as an upgrade is extremely selfish and would earn you a spot on my ignore list and a kick from the group if possible

Not really (but again, opinions).

 

This game is fairly easy. Regular questing and content can be done easily with a half-tush geared companion.

 

I was tearing "content" up with my Merc around mid-30's when I realized Mako still had a lot of lvl 15-20ish gear.

 

Even after upgrading her, there really was not a huge impact that I noticed, at least not as much as when I upgrade my main character.

 

Of course it is good to upgrade companions, but I dont think anyone (even yourself) feels it is as important as your main.

 

If you do, are you saying you actually flip a coin if a nice piece of gear drops that would fit both you or your companion, or do you no questions upgrade your main first?

 

I upgrade my tank companion first.. he's taking the hits.. I'm healing him, so for me, and the way I play, he needs it more than I.

I upgrade my tank companion first.. he's taking the hits.. I'm healing him, so for me, and the way I play, he needs it more than I.

 

I said gear you could both use.

 

Think outside your box and play a Merc (Heavy armor and Aim)....you use Blizz (heavy armor and Aim).

 

You are telling me you would give equal weight to an upgrade and possibly place it on your companion over yourself?

Rolling need for a companion when someone could use it as an upgrade is extremely selfish and would earn you a spot on my ignore list and a kick from the group if possible

 

We keep seeing this.. You coming into my group and claiming people cannot roll need for companions would end up with me kicking you out.

 

This whole threat of blacklisting or being kicked out of groups is meaningless in the overall scheme of things.

We keep seeing this.. You coming into my group and claiming people cannot roll need for companions would end up with me kicking you out.

 

This whole threat of blacklisting or being kicked out of groups is meaningless in the overall scheme of things.

Glad you feel like that because you'll be on lots of peoples ignore list with an attitude like that

I said gear you could both use.

 

Think outside your box and play a Merc (Heavy armor and Aim)....you use Blizz (heavy armor and Aim).

 

You are telling me you would give equal weight to an upgrade and possibly place it on your companion over yourself?

 

I play consular with a tank companion. I don't play any other class.

 

Sorry, but that's the truth.

On my server and all the pug groups I been in, we need on world boss drops since it is boe. I don't have problems with it.

Glad you feel like that because you'll be on lots of peoples ignore list with an attitude like that

 

None so far that I know of, or has made any difference what-so-ever to my play on this game or any other game, and I've been playing online since early '80s.

I play consular with a tank companion. I don't play any other class.

 

Sorry, but that's the truth.

 

I believe you but I am simply asking you a hypothetical.

 

So its impossible for you to think about other options that other players face?

 

Its a simple scenario question. Easy to put yourself into that scenario.

 

But whatever...just trying to provoke some thought.

Your argument breaks down right there I'm afraid. Everyone does get an equal opportunity. When we kill the boss and get to the loot. Each player has an 'equal' opportunity to roll. I am in no way effecting that.

 

By your reasoning, we should not even have the system, which is exactly what I'm trying to get at. The system only serves to gives those who want to be selfish an opportunity to do so.

I believe you but I am simply asking you a hypothetical.

 

So its impossible for you to think about other options that other players face?

 

Its a simple scenario question. Easy to put yourself into that scenario.

 

But whatever...just trying to provoke some thought.

 

I refrained from answering because I dislike hypothetical.

 

But anyways;

 

If I was playing a tank and I had a healer companion, I'd probably opt to gear myself first. If something drops that is going to increase the healing from my companion, the of course, I am going to 'need' on it.

 

I hope that answers the question

Going against whose 'grain', yours or mine?

 

Are you claiming yours is more important than mine?

 

its not about importance. You (in my opinion) are on the less popular side of a very polarizing issue. I think it would be best for everyone if intentions were made clear before groups begin. Because I think everyone agrees that needing on items for your own player character's stat and armor type is fine, I think it should be on the people intending to need on anything else to make their intentions known.