I mean you can't make people play obj. Like if people don't want to guard they are not going to, if they don't want to call out then they are simply not going to but a couple of arguments i see here are not really solutions.

 

1. Get rid of premade argument

- This won't solve your problem, alot of people lack game sense. You don't need a premade to deny caps, heal your team, understand when to off heal, when to los, how to kite, what targets to focus. Alot of that can be learnt just by playing alot. Counting dcds and being aware. Also people will just que sync and leave games because they want to play with their friends. This is an mmo after all. And it does not take a super coordinated team to smack half the trash in que. Also teamwork in a game centered around roles and specs should put you on top of a bunch of people wailing into the guarded healer. Is it frustrating to be farmed by an aggressive premade yeah, is that part of the game....yeah.

 

- Also what do you want people who are playing with their friends do. Just sit in a dead group ranked que. All day just waiting. What if they don't want to play arenas. What are they supposed to do with their time. Just because they made friends with people who want to pvp they should be punished for that right. And the best part is, people won't get better in que overnight with that or start guarding nodes. And the game will still remain frustrating.

 

And also what incorporates a premade is another question, group of 4? 3? 2? Because if its only groups of 4 blocked then groups of 3 will just sync with each other or become the new way to control the games. Make friends with people, go que with them. You the chat box they supply you with. Because that solution does nothing but split the player base more, punishes people for grouping with long que times, doesn't solve the problem of playing obj, and just ruins the whole point of playing a game AS A TEAM. It will always be better to be in a team. And that is not just for swtor.

Premades arent the problem in this case, theyve taken a back seat to those who simply dont care about the outcome over e-peen.

You get a premade that doesnt care... you have to daily double of "its time to leave this match".

Premades arent the problem in this case, theyve taken a back seat to those who simply dont care about the outcome over e-peen.

You get a premade that doesnt care... you have to daily double of "its time to leave this match".

I wholeheartedly agree i was addressing the people earlier in the thread who were talking about premades. That their solution to eliminate them wouldn't actually fix the problem of people not caring. I personally don't think there really is a solution to this. Swtor has a very very very casual playerbase compared to alot of other mmo's. Some people just don't care, it is not the gear or the rewards that make them do what they do. It is just straight up not caring. Can't fix that, just gotta keep plugging away. But I agree that some people just don't care and that is the heart of the issue here.

I wholeheartedly agree i was addressing the people earlier in the thread who were talking about premades. That their solution to eliminate them wouldn't actually fix the problem of people not caring. I personally don't think there really is a solution to this. Swtor has a very very very casual playerbase compared to alot of other mmo's. Some people just don't care, it is not the gear or the rewards that make them do what they do. It is just straight up not caring. Can't fix that, just gotta keep plugging away. But I agree that some people just don't care and that is the heart of the issue here.

I think it is the rewards personally.

Either that or something has changed drastically in the last 3 years.

When I PVPed on Bastion, matches were always about playing the objective. Of course, that was when you still needed separate gear for PVP than for PVE, and winning gave you more tokens to get that gear. So, in a way, gearing was like a carrot I guess.

I'm not saying they need to bring back separate gear, just that I think a big part of the problem is lack of reward. If you get basically nothing (you get more rewards from running a story mode flashpoint honestly), then why try?

I always play objectives, because that's what was ingrained into me for so long... but now I simply don't PVP at all. It's not worth the frustration, and ranked is out of the question since I refuse to spend money on amplifiers.

Now snagging deals on the GTN feels more rewarding than anything PVP can offer, lol.

P.S., it's possible that my experiences on Bastion were different from other people's experiences, since Bastion was a dedicated PVP server. Maybe we took PVP more seriously than people on PVE servers. Although I thought Harb was supposed to be great for PVP too.

(Side note: Does anyone remember Gentleman Gankers or Corellian Death Squad? Fun times.)

I think it is the rewards personally.

 

Either that or something has changed drastically in the last 3 years.

 

When I PVPed on Bastion, matches were always about playing the objective. Of course, that was when you still needed separate gear for PVP than for PVE, and winning gave you more tokens to get that gear. So, in a way, gearing was like a carrot I guess.

 

I'm not saying they need to bring back separate gear, just that I think a big part of the problem is lack of reward. If you get basically nothing (you get more rewards from running a story mode flashpoint honestly), then why try?

 

I always play objectives, because that's what was ingrained into me for so long... but now I simply don't PVP at all. It's not worth the frustration, and ranked is out of the question since I refuse to spend money on amplifiers.

 

Now snagging deals on the GTN feels more rewarding than anything PVP can offer, lol.

 

P.S., it's possible that my experiences on Bastion were different from other people's experiences, since Bastion was a dedicated PVP server. Maybe we took PVP more seriously than people on PVE servers. Although I thought Harb was supposed to be great for PVP too.

 

(Side note: Does anyone remember Gentleman Gankers or Corellian Death Squad? Fun times.)

Spot on about the rewards.

PVP crates are an absolute joke..... so you get nothing for winning.

Spot on about the rewards.

 

PVP crates are an absolute joke..... so you get nothing for winning.

Well this is truth for sure, at minimum pvp should be on par with pve rewards.

I can do a vet flashpoint in about the same amount of time as a WZ and get 3-5 times the gear.

And while im not a fan of separate gear, separate cosmetics im wholly in favor of.

But heres the thing, at the end of the day, ANY competitive format isnt about shinies or rewards at its core, its about winning or losing. I play to win, every time, every else is secondary. I cant understand for a moment those who put anything above that. Who gives a rats about top dps in a loss? its so illogical to me.

Well this is truth for sure, at minimum pvp should be on par with pve rewards.

I can do a vet flashpoint in about the same amount of time as a WZ and get 3-5 times the gear.

And while im not a fan of separate gear, separate cosmetics im wholly in favor of.

But heres the thing, at the end of the day, ANY competitive format isnt about shinies or rewards at its core, its about winning or losing. I play to win, every time, every else is secondary. I cant understand for a moment those who put anything above that. Who gives a rats about top dps in a loss? its so illogical to me.

Team ranked was proof that people in this game won't do anything if the rewards aren't worth it... In season 9-10 it dropped mats and it was pretty much alive, you could get pops and everyone was winner : mat farmers got mats, decent teams got some wins and decent ratings, top teams got their shiny top spot ratings and flairs.

After they took out the mats it was an instant death... why would you bother queing now ? For the sake it ? No way..... WHY are people doing KP farm ? because it gives them something they want.. faster.

If regs and ranked actually dropped something worthwhile for winning, people would bother more to win, especially in regs.

Otherwise it's just.... I don't give a *** mode all the time.

Well this is truth for sure, at minimum pvp should be on par with pve rewards.

I can do a vet flashpoint in about the same amount of time as a WZ and get 3-5 times the gear.

And while im not a fan of separate gear, separate cosmetics im wholly in favor of.

But heres the thing, at the end of the day, ANY competitive format isnt about shinies or rewards at its core, its about winning or losing. I play to win, every time, every else is secondary. I cant understand for a moment those who put anything above that. Who gives a rats about top dps in a loss? its so illogical to me.

I agree with both you and David, incentives are poor snd should definitely be on par with pve rewards and maybe even a bit higher if you win vs lose.

And I 100% agree with the second part of your post and that is how pvp used to be in this game. It was about winning, not epeen dps scores where no one cares if you win or lose.

I also only ever play to win. Most of the times I want to quit matches is when I have a full team of epeen players. It doesn’t matter if we are winning or losing, I just don’t want to play in matches like that because they don’t care about winning and it’s usually because I help carry the team with my own objective play that we might win. It’s a total lotto that’s not based on skill at all. I’d rather leave them to their own devices and requeue or stop pvping altogether. It’s not my job to carry them.

As much as I’ve mostly despised arena over the years, at least people in arena usually want to win and play to win because all they have to do is kill and not die. It’s also faster, so if you have a bad team or epeen’s, it’s over relatively fast.

It’s for that reason I think Bioware need to consider a bit of a revamp of objective pvp that conforms more with the way the majority of pvpers in the meta have learnt to pvp (which is sad because I prefer playing the way we used to). I thrown some ideas out there already. I’d love to get another real thread going with ideas on how they could achieve this.

Sadly, if I do it, I think it might turn into a fight or debate/analysis on why it’s gotten to this stage instead of getting the ideas down and petitioning Bioware for some changes.

Let’s think about it a bit.

Do we really need Bioware making “new” maps? We already have so many that we don’t get to play them all in a couple of hours (thanks to stupid random queue pops).

So instead of them spending time on any future maps, how about we get them to revamp the way the current ones are played and the objectives to winning with real incentives (carrot vs stick).

At the same time they could fix the bugs in lots of them and maybe also adjust some of the designs to work better. ie, Mando arena, Rishi, Vandin ball and Odessen??

How about getting the pops to rotate a bit better and not be so random that you get 6 of the same maps in an hour. And then arena could be added back into the main rotation during prime time and only reduce to arena when the queue drops (like now).

Wether people on this forum like or hate me, I think all know I’m passionate about the pvp side of the game and only want it To be better. You don’t all need to agree with me either. A healthy debate of ideas often produces better ones that neither side considered.

Sadly, my threads or posts often cause too much fighting. I would love if someone else could take up the mantel and run with the idea I’ve presented in this post. I’ll obviously support the thread, but I think it would get more traction if someone else did it, especially as I’m on the outer with Bioware because of my constant criticism or them and Musco.

Anyway, I’ll leave it to you guys to decide. I don’t think there is much else I can contribute to this thread.

I wholeheartedly agree i was addressing the people earlier in the thread who were talking about premades. That their solution to eliminate them wouldn't actually fix the problem of people not caring. I personally don't think there really is a solution to this. Swtor has a very very very casual playerbase compared to alot of other mmo's. Some people just don't care, it is not the gear or the rewards that make them do what they do. It is just straight up not caring. Can't fix that, just gotta keep plugging away. But I agree that some people just don't care and that is the heart of the issue here.

If you are talking about me, let me make this clear:

There is NOTHING that can be done to make people care aside from exagerated rewards. Just like everything in life, there are people who are beyond help. That will never change.

The argument here is that if premades weren't allowed you would get a FAIR fight, wich is diferent.

If you allow premades as it is now, every solo player that queues will get a bad experience and an unfair fight. These premades sometimes play for many hours farming everyone. That is not pvp and it needs to be fixed. The only reason pvp hasnt died off is cause there are rewards for losing too. If there wasnt i would've stopped playing like i did with WoW BG's as well, and i'm sure many others would too.

If everyone is placed, solo, in a random team, it's random wether you get players that care or don't, but the chance that you will have 1-2v8 matches drops dramatically, making it more fun for everyone.

Maybe you get 2v2's, 4v3's, 1v2's, 5v3's, etc. It will not be the hopeless "just lose fast" or "*everyone leaves*" matches we got today.

If everyone is placed, solo, in a random team, it's random wether you get players that care or don't, but the chance that you will have 1-2v8 matches drops dramatically, making it more fun for everyone.

Maybe you get 2v2's, 4v3's, 1v2's, 5v3's, etc. It will not be the hopeless "just lose fast" or "*everyone leaves*" matches we got today.

I totally understand the sentiment.

But I do feel there is a place for small premade’s in reg pvp. But not for 4 man premades in this meta.

2 man premades can be a tool to help teach other people how to play.

Can it still be used to gain an advantage sometimes? Of course it can. But the impact is much less than a 4 man trinity Premade.

I’m on the fence about 3 man premades. I can see a training benefit, but I can also see how it can have more of a negative effect like a 4 man premade. The difference is you don’t need a 3 man premade to help train or teach players becsuse a two man premade can do the nearly the same thing. So I guess my own post has pushed me to side of no 3 man premades either.

I’ve never been anti premade up until shortly after 5.0. Premades played an integral role in the pvp format and definitely had a place. What’s changed now is how pvp is played and also the lack of population. The whole meta changed in 5.0. Bioware removed pvp gear, which basically took all incentive away from learning in lowbies and Mids. It also drove a vast sum of pvpers from the game. It was around this time that we started to have a big shift in how objective pvp was played.

Yes it had been changing slowly, but this accelerated it so much that it completely ruined a new generation of pvpers who can’t or won’t learn to play objective pvp properly.

IMO, the 4 man premade meta died for pvp when it became the overwhelming domain of death squad epeens who have no regard for winning.

In the past, you would use a premade to coordinate strategy and tactics (hopefully against other premades) to win matches. The idea was to out smart your enemy while playing the objectives.

Now premades are used as a gank squad. They aren’t there to coordinate tactics, they are there to overwhelm 4v1 solo or noob players. Which doesn’t require you being in voice programs or coordinating. All these types of premades do is ruin objective pvp because if they are on your team, you basically have half your team not playing properly. And if they are on the other team again solo players, those 4 guys will 4v1 farm you all match.

None of which is fun for objective pvpers, wether they be solo or in premades themselves. that isn’t good pvp and it is driving players from the game or to stop playing pvp.

I now leave more matches with these guys on my own teams than against them because it’s not my job to carry them to a win. If they only care about epeen numbers and not winning, I’ve no incentive to hang around. I want to win, I don’t care if someone gets zero dps numbers as long as we win and as long as they were trying or contributing to the team.

Point in fact, I’ve been playing in some two man premades to help teach a few individuals who have asked for some pointers to get better at objective pvp. This isn’t about giving myself or my team an advantage, it’s purely to teach. Which is especially helpful trying to explain Hutt ball strategy and tactics. But when the only people on the Hutt Ball team who are trying to win are the two of us, then we are carrying the team and that is an unfair advantage to my team. Why should anyone on my team deserved to win if they aren’t helping?? As far as I’m concerned they don’t deserve us carrying them.

I have a rule now if I stay for Hutt Ball matches. If at least half my team won’t help, I leave, especially if most of their team is interested in winning than my own because it’s a forgone conclusion that 1-2 players trying to play Hutt ball cannot win against 6-8 players trying to win. I also warn my team 2-3 times before I leave, but that’s after I try to rally them to help. Sadly, 99% of the time I get told to leave because they just don’t care if they play 6v8 or 7v8. All they want to do is epeen all over the stats board at the end. And that’s even after I’ve scored the only goals my team has. I can 99% guarantee they wouldn’t have won if I wasn’t on the team to start with, so I’m not going to carry them if they won’t help.

Anyway, I don’t care if other people hate me for leaving or saying I’m carrying them or training in two man premades. As far as I’m concerned, they’ve lost their right to be angry at me if they won’t even try to win and refuse to understand that 4 man premade death squads have no place in reg pvp. Am I now part of the problem? Maybe, but I’m only at this point because I’ve been driven here by them.

I totally understand the sentiment.

 

But I do feel there is a place for small premade’s in reg pvp. But not for 4 man premades in this meta.

 

2 man premades can be a tool to help teach other people how to play.

Can it still be used to gain an advantage sometimes? Of course it can. But the impact is much less than a 4 man trinity Premade.

 

I’m on the fence about 3 man premades. I can see a training benefit, but I can also see how it can have more of a negative effect like a 4 man premade. The difference is you don’t need a 3 man premade to help train or teach players becsuse a two man premade can do the nearly the same thing. So I guess my own post has pushed me to side of no 3 man premades either.

 

I’ve never been anti premade up until shortly after 5.0. Premades played an integral role in the pvp format and definitely had a place. What’s changed now is how pvp is played and also the lack of population. The whole meta changed in 5.0. Bioware removed pvp gear, which basically took all incentive away from learning in lowbies and Mids. It also drove a vast sum of pvpers from the game. It was around this time that we started to have a big shift in how objective pvp was played.

 

Yes it had been changing slowly, but this accelerated it so much that it completely ruined a new generation of pvpers who can’t or won’t learn to play objective pvp properly.

IMO, the 4 man premade meta died for pvp when it became the overwhelming domain of death squad epeens who have no regard for winning.

 

In the past, you would use a premade to coordinate strategy and tactics (hopefully against other premades) to win matches. The idea was to out smart your enemy while playing the objectives.

 

Now premades are used as a gank squad. They aren’t there to coordinate tactics, they are there to overwhelm 4v1 solo or noob players. Which doesn’t require you being in voice programs or coordinating. All these types of premades do is ruin objective pvp because if they are on your team, you basically have half your team not playing properly. And if they are on the other team again solo players, those 4 guys will 4v1 farm you all match.

 

None of which is fun for objective pvpers, wether they be solo or in premades themselves. that isn’t good pvp and it is driving players from the game or to stop playing pvp.

I now leave more matches with these guys on my own teams than against them because it’s not my job to carry them to a win. If they only care about epeen numbers and not winning, I’ve no incentive to hang around. I want to win, I don’t care if someone gets zero dps numbers as long as we win and as long as they were trying or contributing to the team.

 

Point in fact, I’ve been playing in some two man premades to help teach a few individuals who have asked for some pointers to get better at objective pvp. This isn’t about giving myself or my team an advantage, it’s purely to teach. Which is especially helpful trying to explain Hutt ball strategy and tactics. But when the only people on the Hutt Ball team who are trying to win are the two of us, then we are carrying the team and that is an unfair advantage to my team. Why should anyone on my team deserved to win if they aren’t helping?? As far as I’m concerned they don’t deserve us carrying them.

 

I have a rule now if I stay for Hutt Ball matches. If at least half my team won’t help, I leave, especially if most of their team is interested in winning than my own because it’s a forgone conclusion that 1-2 players trying to play Hutt ball cannot win against 6-8 players trying to win. I also warn my team 2-3 times before I leave, but that’s after I try to rally them to help. Sadly, 99% of the time I get told to leave because they just don’t care if they play 6v8 or 7v8. All they want to do is epeen all over the stats board at the end. And that’s even after I’ve scored the only goals my team has. I can 99% guarantee they wouldn’t have won if I wasn’t on the team to start with, so I’m not going to carry them if they won’t help.

 

Anyway, I don’t care if other people hate me for leaving or saying I’m carrying them or training in two man premades. As far as I’m concerned, they’ve lost their right to be angry at me if they won’t even try to win and refuse to understand that 4 man premade death squads have no place in reg pvp. Am I now part of the problem? Maybe, but I’m only at this point because I’ve been driven here by them.

I don't think there's anything wrong with grouping up to play with friends. Even if you're a random group of 3 or 4 guild mates, it was never a big deal before. Teaching someone or a few players how to play isn't a huge deal because they're still learning.

Now that everyone and their grandmother is on Discord, however, it has become a big deal when premades come into reg matches. As you say, it's just no fun when you're against 4 people than can focus the same target every 3 seconds.

I hate it. In PVP, in GSF, it's terrible. I will often call out said players to have them fight me 1v1 or 2v1, and they try it once (they die) and then go back to 4v1 me again. It's funny how bad some of these players are when they're not 4 against 1.

I don't think there's anything wrong with grouping up to play with friends. Even if you're a random group of 3 or 4 guild mates, it was never a big deal before. Teaching someone or a few players how to play isn't a huge deal because they're still learning.

 

Now that everyone and their grandmother is on Discord, however, it has become a big deal when premades come into reg matches. As you say, it's just no fun when you're against 4 people than can focus the same target every 3 seconds.

 

I hate it. In PVP, in GSF, it's terrible. I will often call out said players to have them fight me 1v1 or 2v1, and they try it once (they die) and then go back to 4v1 me again. It's funny how bad some of these players are when they're not 4 against 1.

Yep, agreed. And under this meta and low player population, I think the old 3-4 man premade fun we used have, has had its day and should be removed from reg pvp.

The only way I would say they could stay is if match making really did work and they only put premades vs premades, but we all know Bioware won’t do this. Which only leaves one option, remove 3-4 man premades from the reg queue.

I also 100% agree with your analysis on the individual skill lvl of most of those guys. Many of them couldn’t fight their way out of a wet paper bag in a 1v1 or 2v1 situation. IMO, that is why they feel they need to be in premades to start with and secondly, why they will never improve their own individual skills because they rely to much on having people to help prop them up.

When I’m not training or helping someone learn, I flat out refuse to be in premades, I often get invited to random premades, but I politely decline.

Something that blew my mind the other day was someone abused me and then trolled on another Alt after I put them on ignore because I wouldn’t join in a premade ,I’m still shocked about it.

Of course, every match I saw them in after that, they tried to focus me hard. Which was fine because I just focused that one guy and killed him (revenge is best served cold) before the rest could kill me, if they even could

I saw someone else trolling a couple in lowbies who were paired in a premade to learn. He kept abusing them match after match and it was obvious one of them was learning and the other was trying to teach them. But every time he got beat, he would yell abuse and blame them for him losing.

The lowbie queue is small and you basically rotate through the same 8-16 players ever match, so everyone else understood why these two were in a 2 man premade, except him.

He wasn’t a half bad player, but his salty attitude and sour grapes made him the target of everyone he played against in every match. If he was on your team, he got focused first. If you were against him, the whole team would focus him first, regardless of who was on his team.

Yep, agreed. And under this meta and low player population, I think the old 3-4 man premade fun we used have, has had its day and should be removed from reg pvp.

ESO just release a patch where they have restricted battleground (i.e. warzone) queuing to solo only. They say they are doing it partly in response to player feedback and partly as an experiment to see if it helps matchmaking. They put up a discussion thread for it when it was on their PTS, and pretty much it read exactly like all the premade vs. solo-only discussions here have read... except amazingly more civil. (Although, now that I think about it, ZOS seems more proactive about removing name-calling posts, and they actually post that they did it, vs. just ninja deleting things.)

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/509224/pts-update-25-feedback-thread-for-battlegrounds-solo-queuing

Something that blew my mind the other day was someone abused me and then trolled on another Alt after I put them on ignore because I wouldn’t join in a premade

That's just seriously sad.

I've been in lows and mids for a bit now (playing only those brackets since I came back because I don't want to run PVE just to gear). I find that even though I do get crap games where no one cares, I don't seem to get nearly as many of them as I remember encountering in lvl 75 pvp. Maybe because there are enough arenas happening to satisfy people's "deathmatch" lust, so when we get an objective map people are more willing to play it as such? Although, I do leave every single Vandinn, OPG and almost all Quesh. So maybe my sampling is skewed.

Also I seem to get a lot more close games. Sure there are still plenty of run-away matches, where one side really has no chance, but the close contest seems to happen a lot more often. No, I don't have any numbers at all to back that up.

I saw someone else trolling a couple in lowbies who were paired in a premade to learn.

I really do wonder about some people that go off on others for mistakes in lowbies and mids. My favorite response I like for this is... "Yeah, what are you doing here? Why don't you go back to the bracket they have for learning, it's called lowbies... oh wait." At which point, said abuser usually targets me.

Although, I have to admit, I did roll my eyes a bit when I'm in an arena as the only tank, and I put a guard on another jugger as my starting point before the match starts, and he actually REMOVES MY GUARD so he can put his guard on me. Just LoL.

ESO just release a patch where they have restricted battleground (i.e. warzone) queuing to solo only. They say they are doing it partly in response to player feedback and partly as an experiment to see if it helps matchmaking. They put up a discussion thread for it when it was on their PTS, and pretty much it read exactly like all the premade vs. solo-only discussions here have read... except amazingly more civil. (Although, now that I think about it, ZOS seems more proactive about removing name-calling posts, and they actually post that they did it, vs. just ninja deleting things.)

 

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/509224/pts-update-25-feedback-thread-for-battlegrounds-solo-queuing

 

 

 

That's just seriously sad.

 

I've been in lows and mids for a bit now (playing only those brackets since I came back because I don't want to run PVE just to gear). I find that even though I do get crap games where no one cares, I don't seem to get nearly as many of them as I remember encountering in lvl 75 pvp. Maybe because there are enough arenas happening to satisfy people's "deathmatch" lust, so when we get an objective map people are more willing to play it as such? Although, I do leave every single Vandinn, OPG and almost all Quesh. So maybe my sampling is skewed.

 

Also I seem to get a lot more close games. Sure there are still plenty of run-away matches, where one side really has no chance, but the close contest seems to happen a lot more often. No, I don't have any numbers at all to back that up.

 

 

 

I really do wonder about some people that go off on others for mistakes in lowbies and mids. My favorite response I like for this is... "Yeah, what are you doing here? Why don't you go back to the bracket they have for learning, it's called lowbies... oh wait." At which point, said abuser usually targets me.

 

Although, I have to admit, I did roll my eyes a bit when I'm in an arena as the only tank, and I put a guard on another jugger as my starting point before the match starts, and he actually REMOVES MY GUARD so he can put his guard on me. Just LoL.

That's a good idea I want to PVP, but can't be arsed to suffer through gearing my 75s atm, I have no inspiration to do that. Maybe doing lowbies would suffice heh. 75s was awful, I have no gear set and rated 270 atm it's painful.

There is 100% nothing wrong with grouping with friends, its a game, of course you should. But, thats also not the complaint.

There are indeed many reasons people group up, most of them totally fine, its what MMOs are about. Then of course there are those who do so for no reason other than advantage. some people you never see without a premade.

When it creates an hugely unbalanced match, the reasons are really kind of moot.

Group up, have fun, its all good, but try to occasionally think about the guys getting crushed under that boot of advantage. Give them a little credit they might put up a better fight instead of simply bailing.

That's a good idea I want to PVP, but can't be arsed to suffer through gearing my 75s atm, I have no inspiration to do that. Maybe doing lowbies would suffice heh. 75s was awful, I have no gear set and rated 270 atm it's painful.

I wish I was on my iPad and not phone so I could find and link an easy gearing guide I did months ago.

Basically, the easiest way to gear is with one other person and do master mode FPs. Specifically Red Reaper as it’s the fastest. Vet mode gearing isn’t as fast as it was (I think they ninja nerfed it).

If you have 2 stealths and 2 lvl 50 comps, you can do 3-5 RR FPs in an hour. You don’t even need to main the stealths, it’s just to gear up to 306 and get heaps of tech frags. So this works even if you main a Jugg like I prefer.

Once you have all 306 stuff, you start collecting generic set bonus stuff and extra armoring mods ear implants etc. Then you deconstruct everything you don’t need. I only got my other classes set bonus and tacticals from the vendors with tech frags. And I used all the 306 stuff I picked up on my sin to fill them.

It takes less than a week to gear one alt to 306 with set bonus if you have about 20-30 hours.

Another trick to give you a boost at the start.

Get all your treasure hunters to do grade 10 and 11 lock box missions. Most of the drops are 272-278 generic blue gear.

I wish I was on my iPad and not phone so I could find and link an easy gearing guide I did months ago.

 

Basically, the easiest way to gear is with one other person and do master mode FPs. Specifically Red Reaper as it’s the fastest. Vet mode gearing isn’t as fast as it was (I think they ninja nerfed it).

 

If you have 2 stealths and 2 lvl 50 comps, you can do 3-5 RR FPs in an hour. You don’t even need to main the stealths, it’s just to gear up to 306 and get heaps of tech frags. So this works even if you main a Jugg like I prefer.

 

Once you have all 306 stuff, you start collecting generic set bonus stuff and extra armoring mods ear implants etc. Then you deconstruct everything you don’t need. I only got my other classes set bonus and tacticals from the vendors with tech frags. And I used all the 306 stuff I picked up on my sin to fill them.

 

It takes less than a week to gear one alt to 306 with set bonus if you have about 20-30 hours.

 

Another trick to give you a boost at the start.

 

Get all your treasure hunters to do grade 10 and 11 lock box missions. Most of the drops are 272-278 generic blue gear.

Thanks Trixxie. I got limited time and have frequent interruptions so my playtime is very sporadic I don’t have a partner to join up and do all of that with. I think running solo stealth probably most efficient but I hate that, it’s boring. I just been grouping for vet FPs takes half an hour and I can then log out if need be. They easy enough I can take off a fight and it ain’t a big deal either. Think I will just keep doing this until I grow bored of it.

Thanks Trixxie. I got limited time and have frequent interruptions so my playtime is very sporadic I don’t have a partner to join up and do all of that with. I think running solo stealth probably most efficient but I hate that, it’s boring. I just been grouping for vet FPs takes half an hour and I can then log out if need be. They easy enough I can take off a fight and it ain’t a big deal either. Think I will just keep doing this until I grow bored of it.

Cool, I understand, it can be boring as F. Maybe you and Banderal could team up and run few RR’s in between some pvp. If you are on SF and we can sync our times, I can run some with you. Our record is 7.5 mins for a RR MM on 2 deception sins (much faster than playing a HB match, which is just as boring )

Anyway, if you can, do try and use treasure hunting to boost your iRating at the start (save grinding time because you can do it while pvping or flash points)

If you have lvl 50 comps they can do the missions fast. There are 2 x grade 10 lockbox missions every 10mins (I think), plus 1x grade 11 (if you feel like paying 500k to open it up), you usually get 2-3 blue items as well as jawa junk per lockbox missions

Any blue stuff you don’t use or need (I still do treasure hunting at iRated 300), just deconstruct to get more tech frags and jawa junk.

Use the jawa junk to buy mats that have a high resale value and sell at a reasonable rate and sell them on the GTN. This will help fund any set bonus gear you buy from the vendor.

Edit: found that guide I made.

https://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=970390

There is 100% nothing wrong with grouping with friends, its a game, of course you should. But, thats also not the complaint.

There are indeed many reasons people group up, most of them totally fine, its what MMOs are about. Then of course there are those who do so for no reason other than advantage. some people you never see without a premade.

When it creates an hugely unbalanced match, the reasons are really kind of moot.

Group up, have fun, its all good, but try to occasionally think about the guys getting crushed under that boot of advantage. Give them a little credit they might put up a better fight instead of simply bailing.

In the past I would agree. But not now, things have changed too much to warrant the need to have more than 2 people in a premade.

I personally believe premades are now having the detrimental affect of driving quality down and at the same time, driving players from the game. That includes both experienced players and new players.

I think when something becomes that detrimental to player retention, it needs to be looked at and adjusted if needed to reduce or stop players leaving.

Of course that doesn’t just include premades. There’s a list of these sorts of Bioware problems as long as my leg that need that sort of attention. But the premade thing is a really simple fix and has the compromise of still allowing 2 man premades for the social MMO aspect.

It certainly wouldn’t hurt to trial it and see if it helps with game quality (possible better balance), less players rage quitting and retention of people playing pvp. And hopefully the side effect to help increase player skill Lvls.

Cool, I understand, it can be boring as F. Maybe you and Banderal could team up and run few RR’s in between some pvp.

Lol. Lhance already tried to get me to run PvE with him. I actually ran a lowbie... er... flashpoint? Operation? Maybe it was just a heroic. Anyway, with my tank. Some random guy was trying to help me check gear to improve my DPS as a jugger tank, and after he helped me tweak things he asked me to run with him to test it out. I figured, "well, it's not the same as trying to get some dps down in PvP, but sure why not." I don't think my DPS improved much, but it proved to me what I already knew, that I have no idea how to PvE tank. I mean... what abilities generate threat now? And am I supposed to leap in first to grab aggro? Or wait and let the guys who know what they are doing pick which boss to fight and which to mezz? (I got yelled at in WoW for that once... OMG, I jumped in too EARLY and the group wasn't READY and I'm trying to RUIN it for EVERYONE - and then the guy rage quit, and then we went on to take down the bosses as I tanked my butt off and my buddy healed me )

Luckily the other PvEr's were pretty tolerant, and we finished it up okay without any party wipes.

There’s a list of these sorts of Bioware problems as long as my leg that need that sort of attention.

Wow, you must have abnormally long legs.

Wow, you must have abnormally long legs.

Sy Snootles comes to mind.

I got Sy Snootles on my mind now after reading about all the changes George Lucas added when he had the chance to use CGI later on. Originally Snootles was a puppet, but Lucas wasn't happy with her movement so he added a whole new CGI Snootles to the movie (think it was ROTJ.)

Cool, I understand, it can be boring as F. Maybe you and Banderal could team up and run few RR’s in between some pvp. If you are on SF and we can sync our times, I can run some with you. Our record is 7.5 mins for a RR MM on 2 deception sins (much faster than playing a HB match, which is just as boring )

 

Anyway, if you can, do try and use treasure hunting to boost your iRating at the start (save grinding time because you can do it while pvping or flash points)

If you have lvl 50 comps they can do the missions fast. There are 2 x grade 10 lockbox missions every 10mins (I think), plus 1x grade 11 (if you feel like paying 500k to open it up), you usually get 2-3 blue items as well as jawa junk per lockbox missions

 

Any blue stuff you don’t use or need (I still do treasure hunting at iRated 300), just deconstruct to get more tech frags and jawa junk.

Use the jawa junk to buy mats that have a high resale value and sell at a reasonable rate and sell them on the GTN. This will help fund any set bonus gear you buy from the vendor.

 

Edit: found that guide I made.

https://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=970390

Nice guide thank you I remember that when you did it.

Banderal is like me, he logs in and out here and there it's hard to reliably hook up with him especially now that my schedule is very inconsistent.

The treasure hunting thing is a good idea, how long can you do that for gear, iRating max 306 or not? Can you pass gears via alts too from Treasure Hunting?

If I level all 100 of my alts to max Treasure Hunting I then could in theory pass gears to one toon that way, unless of course you cannot pass any gears via Treasure Hunting then NM.

Wow, you must have abnormally long legs.

Why thank you sir for noticing. How else is my wife supposed to get from ground lvl to heaven

Edit: lmao, its Mardi Gras this weekend and my sassy is getting ready

Edit 2: omg, now I’m auto pilot and my fingers won’t stop

Edit 3: ok, I have to stop, I can’t seem to keep it under control

Why thank you sir for noticing. How else is my wife supposed to get from ground lvl to heaven

 

Edit: lmao, its Mardi Gras this weekend and my sassy is getting ready

 

Edit 2: omg, now I’m auto pilot and my fingers won’t stop

 

Edit 3: ok, I have to stop, I can’t seem to keep it under control

Wait, Australia has Mardi Gras too?

Wait, Australia has Mardi Gras too?

Dude, we have the best Mardi Gras. I’m still recovering.

Here are some pics, I’m even in one https://www.gettyimages.com.au/photos/sydney-gay-and-lesbian-mardi-gras-2020?mediatype=photography&page=2&phrase=sydney%20gay%20and%20lesbian%20Mardi%20Gras%202020&sort=mostpopular

Dude, we have the best Mardi Gras. I’m still recovering.

Here are some pics, I’m even in one https://www.gettyimages.com.au/photos/sydney-gay-and-lesbian-mardi-gras-2020?mediatype=photography&page=2&phrase=sydney%20gay%20and%20lesbian%20Mardi%20Gras%202020&sort=mostpopular

I believe I found you. Driving the motorcycle the very last image I see there, the two riding the motorcycle with the rainbow flag is that you?