Most of the time I am supportive of Bioware and try to spread positivity about the game and its direction. But not today and not now. Even though I personally am not that bothered by the gear grind, I am in a minority in regards to that as the majority of the players is highly unsatisfied with the 5.10 gearing changes.

 

Therefore, I am appealing to the devs directly through this thread: don't be stubborn. Let your initial idea for the 5.10 gear changes go, there is no merit in buckling down in your belief that you are correct or that this is what the playerbase needs. Because it isn't, this isn't what the players want or need.

 

Don't presume to speak for the players, listen to them instead. Jedi Under Siege could have been a great update if it hadn't been for the gear grind you have introduced (yes I know, the bugs ruined a lot as well). You have made changes that will work detrimentally to the playerbase and therefore I beg you: put your own wants aside and please listen to the playerbase. Put aside what you want to see implemented into the game and listen to what the players are telling you they'd like to see in regards to gearing.

 

Please, don't be stubborn.

Edited January 16, 2019 by Ylliarus

Personally I like the new gear in that it makes clearing old Nightmare operations content easier to clear. I suspect many others feel the same way, but would be too hesitant to say so out of fear of being called a sh***er.

 

Could you make the case for why you say the 5.10 gear changes don't work? I'll admit I don't regularly read the forums, but if you're going to call for changes, shouldn't you have already made the case as to what is so bad about the 5.10 gear changes? It would be like me saying: change the laws on vehicle certification, they suck, everyone knows their bad, don't be stubborn and then I never actually say what's wrong with them.

 

Really bad form, IMO.

Most of the time I am supportive of Bioware and try to spread positivity about the game and its direction. But not today and not now. Even though I personally am not that bothered by the gear grind, I am in a minority in regards to that as the majority of the players is highly unsatisfied with the 5.10 gearing changes.

 

Therefore, I am appealing to the devs directly through this thread: don't be stubborn. Let your initial idea for the 5.10 gear changes go, there is no merit in buckling down in your belief that you are correct or that this is what the playerbase needs. Because it isn't, this isn't what the players want or need.

 

Don't presume to speak for the players, listen to them instead. Jedi Under Siege could have been a great update if it hadn't been for the gear grind you have introduced (yes I know, the bugs ruined a lot as well). You have made changes that will work detrimentally to the playerbase and therefore I beg you: put your own wants aside and please listen to the playerbase. Put aside what you want to see implemented into the game and listen to what the players are telling you they'd like to see in regards to gearing.

 

Please, don't be stubborn.

 

We went through this same issue with the initial rollout of Galactic Command back in the Ben "RNG is EXCITING!!!!!" Irving days. It took a bunch of people unsubscribing to make EA stop doubling down and start making changes. Unfortunately I expect it would take a similar subscriber exodus to produce the same effect here. EA has proven time and again they don't care about what players say on the forums or how enjoyable their game actually is to play, only about their income flow.

Edited January 16, 2019 by AscendingSky

Personally I like the new gear in that it makes clearing old Nightmare operations content easier to clear. I suspect many others feel the same way, but would be too hesitant to say so out of fear of being called a sh***er.

 

Could you make the case for why you say the 5.10 gear changes don't work? I'll admit I don't regularly read the forums, but if you're going to call for changes, shouldn't you have already made the case as to what is so bad about the 5.10 gear changes? It would be like me saying: change the laws on vehicle certification, they suck, everyone knows their bad, don't be stubborn and then I never actually say what's wrong with them.

 

Really bad form, IMO.

 

Before you get all judgemental, here is a link to a thread that voiced the thoughts and feelings of the community in regards to the new gear changes that Jedi Under Siege introduced: http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=957755

 

I didn't mention them in the OP because by now majority of the forum posters know what players find wrong with the changes. It shows you haven't been reading the forums.

 

As I said in the OP, I personally have no large issues, but I am in a minority in regards to that. What do players criticise? It's another gear grind. We just finished the Galactic Command grind and now we are thrown into yet another one.

 

On top of that, the gear mods and enhancements are bound to their gear piece category. You want to minmax? Too bad! The mods and enhancements in leg pieces can only be put into leg pieces.

 

I have seen PvP players complain as well that they are forced to do PvE content in order to get their gear up to date for Ranked and Unranked warzones so as to stay competitive.

 

I don't know the list of criticism by heart, there's been too many discussions and threads about it on the forums. But I am absolutely convinced others will chime in and fill in the list.

 

The massive amount of criticism the gearing changes in 5.10 have received are proof that they don't work, they proof that players are unhappy with it. Had you bothered to read up on some of the threads you would have known what people were talking about.

Edited January 16, 2019 by Ylliarus

Only thing I dislike about the new gear is the fact that mods and enhancements are bound which is the dumbest thing they could have done, the rest is fine and people just like to complain.

Let me choose what 252 piece I want! I don't need anymore accuracy torso pieces!

Before you get all judgemental, here is a link to a thread that voiced the thoughts and feelings of the community in regards to the new gear changes that Jedi Under Siege introduced: http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=957755

 

It doesn't really change the point that I made, that if you're going to start a thread saying that the devs should change something, you ought to mention what is wrong with the thing you want change, other than symptoms of the problem. To call that being judgmental is just disingenuous.

 

I didn't mention them in the OP because by now majority of the forum posters know what players find wrong with the changes. It shows you haven't been reading the forums.

 

It shows that I haven't been reading the forums because that's what I stated. But if you take great pride in the fact that you have, then that's pretty sad.

 

As I said in the OP, I personally have no large issues, but I am in a minority in regards to that. What do players criticise? It's another gear grind. We just finished the Galactic Command grind and now we are thrown into yet another one.

 

I have to say, how slow does one have to be at gearing to have just finished with Galactic Command? I have tons of 248 and 242 legendary stuff lying around.

 

On top of that, the gear mods and enhancements are bound to their gear piece category. You want to minmax? Too bad! The mods and enhancements in leg pieces can only be put into leg pieces.

 

This is annoying, but that's a problem in need of a reform, not a wholesale scrapping of the system that you are calling for.

 

I have seen PvP players complain as well that they are forced to do PvE content in order to get their gear up to date for Ranked and Unranked warzones so as to stay competitive.

 

There does seem to be some merit there, but I think only in so far as it restricts the diversity of what you can fight competitively. If a person only does ranked with one character, then it's not beyond reason to gear that one character up. As for unranked, isn't there bolster up to 252?

 

The massive amount of criticism the gearing changes in 5.10 have received are proof that they don't work, they proof that players are unhappy with it. Had you bothered to read up on some of the threads you would have known what people were talking about.

 

If you want want to waste your time making foolish speculation about what I bother to do, that is on you. I merely pointed out that your telling the devs to change something but not stating why is bad form, and it is. If you're not mature enough to address that, I understand. It doesn't come as a terrible shock.

If you want want to waste your time making foolish speculation about what I bother to do, that is on you. I merely pointed out that your telling the devs to change something but not stating why is bad form, and it is. If you're not mature enough to address that, I understand. It doesn't come as a terrible shock.

 

I was intending to reply to the rest of your post in a sensible manner, but sadly I reached this point and if you're going to bring up maturity, using it as a crutch to discredit me and my replies then I apologise, but I won't bother to respond to you. Besides, for some reason you come at me in this very hostile manner, so please don't be surprised I have no interest in replying to you.

 

The Devs are well aware of the critiques expressed at the gearing changes, it has been THE topic of discussion on the forums ever since 5.10 had been released. Why you single me out of all the other threads that are out there on this topic is a mystery to me, yet here we are.

 

Have a nice day.

Edited January 16, 2019 by Ylliarus

Yes, it's definitely a grind. I just came back two'ish weeks ago after taking a break in August, and it definitely blows. Though with my mirror alts I'm already about to get my third 258 piece, hopefully a few more pieces when I hit legend next week. I don't mind a new gear tier at all, I just hate the limit on how many crystals you can get a week, and that the 252 weekly drop is a random item you don't get to select.

Yes, it's definitely a grind. I just came back two'ish weeks ago after taking a break in August, and it definitely blows. Though with my mirror alts I'm already about to get my third 258 piece, hopefully a few more pieces when I hit legend next week. I don't mind a new gear tier at all, I just hate the limit on how many crystals you can get a week, and that the 252 weekly drop is a random item you don't get to select.

 

That is another critique however that I have seen expressed frequently, the fact that the gearing changes are alt-unfriendly. The masterwork crystals are bound to one character, making the grind extra long if you have multiple characters to gear up.

Nothing is really wrong with this gearing system. Do people have to work to get BiS? Yes, as it should be. Nobody should be able to get a full set of BiS gear in 1-2 weeks. While I admit the RNG part can be annoying, there are ways to completely remove the RNG. Skip the Ossu weekly, and farm MWS on many alts and purchase the pieces you want on those alts with Crystals, then use legacy gear to finish it off.

 

I think to many of us have simply gotten to used to getting gear really easily, and have forgotten that in most of the MMO's out there it can take months of hard work to get BiS gear, then many more months to Min/max that.

 

As for PvP players not being happy about being forced to do PvE content. I hate to say it, but PvE players have been doing that for years. BW simply wants all of its players to play all parts of the game regardless if we enjoy it or not. I know I seldom do PvP since I don't care for the mechanics of PvP in this game (Loved PvP in other MMO's), however BW continues to try and force PvE players into PvP with CMT's, and UC's for upgrading gear from 5.x-5.9, so we all need to face reality, BW will force all of us to do content we don't care for. Except that reality for what it is.

Edited January 17, 2019 by Toraak

Nothing is really wrong with this gearing system. Do people have to work to get BiS? Yes, as it should be. Nobody should be able to get a full set of BiS gear in 1-2 weeks. While I admit the RNG part can be annoying, there are ways to completely remove the RNG. Skip the Ossu weekly, and farm MWS on many alts and purchase the pieces you want on those alts with Crystals, then use legacy gear to finish it off.

 

I think to many of us have simply gotten to used to getting gear really easily, and have forgotten that in most of the MMO's out there it can take months of hard work to get BiS gear, then many more months to Min/max that.

 

As for PvP players not being happy about being forced to do PvE content. I hate to say it, but PvE players have been doing that for years. BW simply wants all of its players to play all parts of the game regardless if we enjoy it or not. I know I seldom do PvP since I don't care for the mechanics of PvP in this game (Loved PvP in other MMO's), however BW continues to try and force PvE players into PvP with CMT's, and UC's for upgrading gear from 5.x-5.9, so we all need to face reality, BW will force all of us to do content we don't care for. Except that reality for what it is.

 

As I said I personally am not bothered by the gear grind. I just do it at my own pace and don't feel a rush at all.

 

But where does the outrage come from then, I ask? It's been a huge topic of contention between players and I have seen critique after critique expressed at the 5.10 gearing changes.

The 5.10 gear changes (including the time gate attached to acquisition) is the most profitable gearing system for Bioware. Why would they not do it? The delay on getting the new gear means players have to subscribe for longer before they procure it. More sub time = more $$$ for the Bioware folks. Sounds like they have it right.

Listen basically they know this sucks, but they want to keep people playing for a while, subbing, and doing this grind for the next 6+ months while they figure out some new content.. I mean that's it, people have ran out of stuff to do and are leaving the game... this gives players something to do. Don't be surprised if there is a new level/gear grind in 6.0 with more Command Ranks and RNG loot boxes.

Nothing is really wrong with this gearing system. Do people have to work to get BiS? Yes, as it should be. Nobody should be able to get a full set of BiS gear in 1-2 weeks.

Could you make the case for why you say the 5.10 gear changes don't work?

 

I won't claim to speak for everyone who dislikes the system, but I can identify several of the problems I have, which I believe others have as well. DISCLAIMER: I am not a Master Mode Gods from the Machine -capable player nor am I a Gold tier ranked pvp'er. I am a filthy casual, occasional Vet Mode, eager to learn Master Modes, all types of content, player

 

1.) Regardless of how palatable a person may find the masterwork data crystal grind, the crafting pathway for 258 gear is absolutely not faster than the MDCs. This runs counter to the developer's stated goal of having crafting be the fastest way. Now, if you consider that an influence 50 companion will be able to craft the 258 piece in a matter of minutes, as opposed to weeks to get sufficient MDCs … well, then, you're missing the point. Its the resource material requirements, which are absolutely out of whack.

2.) This system renders Galactic Command largely useless for primary toons. It turns the crates into factories for churning out very small quantities of unassembled components. Its a grind from 1-300 that is largely pointless for your primary toons. Its definitely pointless under CR 300 for all toons. GC is still useful for alts or for other discipline sets, but its usefulness has been greatly diminished.

3.) This system shoehorns folks into doing one type of content in one location in the game at end game that isn't even the content for which the gear is designed. There is a rotating weekly for an extra MDC, but it rotates every two weeks. The rotating weekly is broken for 1 out of the 3 versions we've had over the past 6 weeks. Either way, that weekly consists of content that can be done in a few hours, and you have to go right back to that same zone everyone else is in.

4.) More importantly than the slowness of the system is its alt-unfriendliness. To gear up a single toon requires you to grind content on alts, just to earn MDCs, that will immediately go to one or two of your primary toons. The alts become very sophisticated mules for maybe a couple of your mains. All the work done on those toons does not benefit them, except through a neutered galactic command system. GC was good because at least the things you did on that character benefitted that character. Earning MDCs on toon B simply to buy a piece of gear that will immediately go to toon A, who is a completely different class, and in the process essentially setting your toon B back by WEEKS in the gear grind, is not a paradigm that is sustainable.

 

Those are my biggest objections to the system, Mr. Kennedy.

Edited January 17, 2019 by phalczen

The 5.10 gear changes (including the time gate attached to acquisition) is the most profitable gearing system for Bioware. Why would they not do it? The delay on getting the new gear means players have to subscribe for longer before they procure it. More sub time = more $$$ for the Bioware folks. Sounds like they have it right.

 

I imagine that, with the content drought between now and whatever the next story update may be, that is Bioware's reasoning behind having implemented the 5.10 gear changes despite heavy protestations in the PTS forums.

I won't claim to speak for everyone who dislikes the system, but I can identify several of the problems I have, which I believe others have as well. DISCLAIMER: I am not a Master Mode Gods from the Machine -capable player nor am I a Gold tier ranked pvp'er. I am a filthy casual, occasional Vet Mode, eager to learn Master Modes, all types of content, player

 

1.) Regardless of how palatable a person may find the masterwork data crystal grind, the crafting pathway for 258 gear is absolutely not faster than the MDCs. This runs counter to the developer's stated goal of having crafting be the fastest way. Now, if you consider that an influence 50 companion will be able to craft the 258 piece in a matter of minutes, as opposed to weeks to get sufficient MDCs … well, then, you're missing the point. Its the resource material requirements, which are absolutely out of whack.

2.) This system renders Galactic Command largely useless for primary toons. It turns the crates into factories for churning out very small quantities of unassembled components. Its a grind from 1-300 that is largely pointless for your primary toons. Its definitely pointless under CR 300 for all toons. GC is still useful for alts or for other discipline sets, but its usefulness has been greatly diminished.

3.) This system shoehorns folks into doing one type of content in one location in the game at end game that isn't even the content for which the gear is designed. There is a rotating weekly for an extra MDC, but it rotates every two weeks. The rotating weekly is broken for 1 out of the 3 versions we've had over the past 6 weeks. Either way, that weekly consists of content that can be done in a few hours, and you have to go right back to that same zone everyone else is in.

4.) More importantly than the slowness of the system is its alt-unfriendliness. To gear up a single toon requires you to grind content on alts, just to earn MDCs, that will immediately go to one or two of your primary toons. The alts become very sophisticated mules for maybe a couple of your mains. All the work done on those toons does not benefit them, except through a neutered galactic command system. GC was good because at least the things you did on that character benefitted that character. Earning MDCs on toon B simply to buy a piece of gear that will immediately go to toon A, who is a completely different class, and in the process essentially setting your toon B back by WEEKS in the gear grind, is not a paradigm that is sustainable.

 

Those are my biggest objections to the system, Mr. Kennedy.

 

Exactly this. And don't forget how the mods and enhancements are bound to their specific gear piece category and an accuracy enhancement from a boot piece can't be put in a head piece for example if you want to minmax. Which previously has always been possible. Also, the set bonuses don't add up with 248 set bonus gear. So you have to get a full 252 or 258 gear set to get the set bonus (which is a bug true, but one they're taking sweet time to fix)

 

In regards to crafting, I haven't been able to find any of the Forgotten mats on the GTN yet and they're supposedly sellable on the GTN. I had been hoping to craft some of the pieces but sadly, absolutely no luck there yet.

Edited January 17, 2019 by Ylliarus

And don't forget how the mods and enhancements are bound to their specific gear piece category and an accuracy enhancement from a boot piece can't be put in a head piece for example if you want to minmax. Which previously has always been possible.

 

I won't address the set boni issue because its an acknowledged bug, regardless of the time its taking to fix it isn't intended.

 

The intentional change to item modifications being bound-to-anatomical gear slot issue, that is gotten around by purchasing an extra healer chest piece and extra healer feet to replace the enhancements that normally come in a dps piece. Since the mod slot is also bound to anatomical slot and dps/healer pieces already have the unlettered lethal mods, its minimally useful to put it in legacy gear, assuming you have a proper piece to put it in. It is still possible to min-max but it is much more cumbersome let alone time-consuming. It also isn't intuitive, since it may require some classes to buy gear from an entirely different class (Jedi Knights have no heal spec in any advanced class for example.) This is another example of toon B being a mere mule for toon A's gearing. Other people may be OK with this but I have a philosophical problem with toon B doing end game content merely to fuel toon A's gearing and setting toon B back in the process.

The 5.10 gear changes (including the time gate attached to acquisition) is the most profitable gearing system for Bioware. Why would they not do it? The delay on getting the new gear means players have to subscribe for longer before they procure it. More sub time = more $$$ for the Bioware folks. Sounds like they have it right.

 

Since the release population decrease ! The grind and RNG for BIS don't seems to attract players...

I won't address the set boni issue because its an acknowledged bug, regardless of the time its taking to fix it isn't intended.

 

The intentional change to item modifications being bound-to-anatomical gear slot issue, that is gotten around by purchasing an extra healer chest piece and extra healer feet to replace the enhancements that normally come in a dps piece. Since the mod slot is also bound to anatomical slot and dps/healer pieces already have the unlettered lethal mods, its minimally useful to put it in legacy gear, assuming you have a proper piece to put it in. It is still possible to min-max but it is much more cumbersome let alone time-consuming. It also isn't intuitive, since it may require some classes to buy gear from an entirely different class (Jedi Knights have no heal spec in any advanced class for example.) This is another example of toon B being a mere mule for toon A's gearing. Other people may be OK with this but I have a philosophical problem with toon B doing end game content merely to fuel toon A's gearing and setting toon B back in the process.

 

Exactly! The bound-to-anatomical gear slot thing is specifically done to prolong the gear grind. It's why the current gearing changes are completely alt-unfriendly and people keep commenting on it how it needs to be changed. Because I absolutely agree with you there, no alt should be a mule to get our main(s) geared up.

 

It's why Galactic Command, after the devs had listened to the playerbase and made changes to it, actually was an enjoyable and alt friendly way to gear up. But with Ossus Galactic Command has basically been rendered useless.

 

But it's what bothers me about the way how the devs do things. They implement an idea despite people saying "that's a bad idea", then realise "oh my, we never knew the players didn't like that!" when the amount of subs start to drop and then listen to what the players want. Exactly the same has happened with KotFEET's story, majority of the people didn't want that setting and only after years of criticism, negativity and declining amount of subs, did the devs listen to the players and return to the Empire vs Republic story.

 

Since it's happened so frequently already, I don't see why the devs just can't listen to the playerbase from the start. Sure, they're the devs but they are making this game for us, we are the target audience, we have to like it. So surely it's not an outlandish concept to listen to what we - the players and payers - want?

Most of the time I am supportive of Bioware and try to spread positivity about the game and its direction. But not today and not now. Even though I personally am not that bothered by the gear grind, I am in a minority in regards to that as the majority of the players is highly unsatisfied with the 5.10 gearing changes.

 

Therefore, I am appealing to the devs directly through this thread: don't be stubborn. Let your initial idea for the 5.10 gear changes go, there is no merit in buckling down in your belief that you are correct or that this is what the playerbase needs. Because it isn't, this isn't what the players want or need.

 

Don't presume to speak for the players, listen to them instead. Jedi Under Siege could have been a great update if it hadn't been for the gear grind you have introduced (yes I know, the bugs ruined a lot as well). You have made changes that will work detrimentally to the playerbase and therefore I beg you: put your own wants aside and please listen to the playerbase. Put aside what you want to see implemented into the game and listen to what the players are telling you they'd like to see in regards to gearing.

 

Please, don't be stubborn.

 

I'd rather they do away with GC while they are at it, return us to pre-5.0 and give f2p'ers more ability to play the game again. But the facts are that we are just customers, we have no right to demand anything and Bioware are under no obligation to listen to these demands. The trouble is that nothing will change for a while with Anthem so close to launch and every dev piling into the effort.

My suggestion for aquiring the gear would be to reset galactic command (or start a new "tree" on it) when starting Ossus (or latest at 6.0). It would start from level 1 again and give first the blues, non set purples, oranges and slowly also set items starting from lowest tier of the season naturally. Add in some new profession recipes (not just gear but also dyes etc.), pets, mounts and such things and we would again have community spread around doing all kind of things. Then Ossus wouldnt be so heavily lagged and also variety would make it feel fresh bit longer.

 

Also keep the existing ways to go trough MDC route, OPS rewards etc. so people who do harder stuff will benefit from it.

 

Benefits from grinding to lvl 300 on "last season GC tree" would ofc carry on to new system so people who grinded it full would be still getting CXP buffs and such they gained from it.

How do you know what playerbase wants?

You think playerbase is one hive-mind with same thoughts? Borg or smth?

Does that linked thread show what playerbase wants? Those 15-16 posters said smth and that is suddenly whole playerbase oppinion?

Well, Im happy with 5.10, with gear gring and RNG, bugs aside. Typical mmorpg... or Im not part of playerbase, so my oppinion is invalid just it is different?

Personally I like the new gear in that it makes clearing old Nightmare operations content easier to clear.

It's just a matter of time before that advantage is nullified.

EA simply hasn't gotten around to tuning the gear requirements necessary for operations.

Edited January 17, 2019 by xordevoreaux

It's just a matter of time before that advantage is nullified.

EA simply hasn't gotten around to tuning the gear requirements necessary for operations.

 

I'll bet you 50 million credits they don't. The blowback would be catastrophic and there's no reason to do it. They "tuned" the dps and heals for operations many times in 5.0.

Edited January 18, 2019 by RobertFKennedyUS