I suppose the definition of "better" might be part of this question. Having seen several posts about how all the various parts of the scoreboard are next-to-useless numbers for actually measuring how good a player is at "warzoning", it got me wondering... how do you tell if you are getting better at warzone-PvP? I guess if you go with premades, you can go into ranked matches, and tell as a team. But what about individually?

I'd like to think I could "just tell" by how I fare (fair?) in individual melees in the WZ. But they are so varied. Last night, as an example, I played about 6 WZs. They were all so lopsided. For 4 of them my team was getting crushed by the proverbial premades. My numbers, and everyone elses, were dismal. Felt like I melted in any fight I was in. Then the other two were completely the opposite. We melted anyone who dared to show their ugly imperial head.

I guess since the final game I played was one where I was a melter instead of a melt-ee, that must mean I suddenly got awesome at this game! Right?

can measure only if you are honest with your self.

Like 'did I waste my stun/kb/breaker?'

did I protected node so incs could come?

did I foreseen incs for other node before they were called?

some stealther attacked, was I able to kick hiss buttom while calling incs?

did I pass the ball?

if I was my team mate, would I want me in my team again?

I tend to set goals for myself for a match, or even for a whole day of matches.

As an example, I noticed recently that my fighting ability when caught out of stealth on my operative wasn't quite up to par. I spent the next match never going into stealth and working on my non-stealth rotation. I worked out some kinks and thought of some new tricks, and now my game is that much better.

On my mercenary, I made it a point to never be caught out of position- close enough to heal my teammates but also close to a los object. That way I don't get piled on when people realize the guy shooting snot rockets might be a better target than the tank they're wailing on.

Sometimes it's more simple things, like making sure an ability gets used on cooldown. You get orbital strike late in the game, so I didn't have much practice with it on my sniper when I first get 50. I noticed I wasn't using it enough, so I devoted a lot of matches to using it absolutely on cooldown. I got a feel then for what is a good and bad place to use it.

Right now I have a friend that plays a sage with my gunslinger. We're working on class synergy and I devote a game or two every time we play to just peeling melee off him and don't sweat the numbers. Check out this video-

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=248Jvx24_1Y . That was my inspiration. I want to get to this level with my friend. Bonus for me was finding out that Controlz plays on my server (POT5).

This is how I play Real Time Strategy Games, and it was just kind of natural for me to play PvP this way. I know I'm getting better because I'm specifically working on a skill or very particular set of skills (queue Liam Neeson). My team may not win, and my numbers may not be great, but that's not how I judge success. When I accomplished what I set out to do? That's success, and that's getting better.

1 You are not funnel visioning and becoming more aware (well its 5 our team vs 2 on them... where are the rest of them????)

2 No one is jumping to you to score the ball

3 You use stims and medpacks

4 You don't break stuns when someone is capping

5 You take side speeders

6 you actually know how the game is scored

7 You call out BEFORE you are attacked with the number of people

8 YOU ATTACK THE HEALERS first... jesus why do I even have to say that

and finally the best on that almost 80% of people dont do

STOP dont run into the 5v1 fight unless you are stopping something important. Wait for support so you are not just another punching bag. Everyone thinks damage score/ healing is effective.. I vote for who actually played the game and not the guy in the corner doing team death match because they want other ******* to vote for them. That guy can have his one vote and one com to feel better about himself but he does nothing for the team.

I tend to set goals for myself for a match, or even for a whole day of matches.

 

As an example, I noticed recently that my fighting ability when caught out of stealth on my operative wasn't quite up to par. I spent the next match never going into stealth and working on my non-stealth rotation. I worked out some kinks and thought of some new tricks, and now my game is that much better.

 

On my mercenary, I made it a point to never be caught out of position- close enough to heal my teammates but also close to a los object. That way I don't get piled on when people realize the guy shooting snot rockets might be a better target than the tank they're wailing on.

 

Sometimes it's more simple things, like making sure an ability gets used on cooldown. You get orbital strike late in the game, so I didn't have much practice with it on my sniper when I first get 50. I noticed I wasn't using it enough, so I devoted a lot of matches to using it absolutely on cooldown. I got a feel then for what is a good and bad place to use it.

 

Right now I have a friend that plays a sage with my gunslinger. We're working on class synergy and I devote a game or two every time we play to just peeling melee off him and don't sweat the numbers. Check out this video-

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=248Jvx24_1Y . That was my inspiration. I want to get to this level with my friend. Bonus for me was finding out that Controlz plays on my server (POT5).

 

This is how I play Real Time Strategy Games, and it was just kind of natural for me to play PvP this way. I know I'm getting better because I'm specifically working on a skill or very particular set of skills (queue Liam Neeson). My team may not win, and my numbers may not be great, but that's not how I judge success. When I accomplished what I set out to do? That's success, and that's getting better.

Excellent advice *thumbs up* The best of listed here in my opinion, because it covers improvement approach - not some basic rules.

reaction and good decision making for ur teams benefit

1)Reaction->call asap respond to calls asap, 1 guy can change the faith of the game even if only managed to interrupt and died right after he might have bought enough time for reinforcements by responding to a call super fast

2)Good decision making->know ur role and play it!example:

a)tired of meeting ******* in Ancient Hypergates(stealthers) that refuse to guard if u can`t keep a stealther as guard u have to waste 2 non stealth thus weakening ur force for the control of mid,

b)if ur a dps kill the fcken healers,

c)if ur tank switch guard between targets no point keeping it on a guy that never is under fire just because he s ur friend or is a healer and spam those taunts keep enemies off ur healers,

Also do not over commit , many games are lost because of this, even in a zerg vs zerg the moment u out number ur opponents by half immediatly leave that side and run to the other door/node let the teammates finish clean up (u cannot believe how many noobs i meet in wz....seeing 5-6 ppl running after 1-2 guys across the map) when trying get a node u have to put pressure on both(if u have any stealth) or do fast switches inbetween until ur enemies overcommits to 1 side and u just caught them out of position or ur getting heavly outnumberd at this point ur priority is to stay alive as long as possible run behind walls/node/pillars and buy time for reinforcements interrupt them till ur last breath but don`t rambo into them

Edit: forgot 3)NO TUNNEL VISIONget into settings and change the camera zoomed out for better view across the field for example on voidstar when defending i always try to keep my face towards the door if i got my back on it i will look behind everytimes i`m casting/channeling an ability because i know some will try to lure the guard away while a stealth goes behind i do that myself

i try to set goals for myself for each warzone (playing as an operative healer) and see how well i do.

Just a few examples.

- if i happen to get guard keep the tank alive- if both of us lives the more chance we can stop a cap or whatever. But it shouldn't be on the expense of everyone else dying on the team.

- try to arrange basic tactics before start, e.g. decide who goes to attack and who will guard.

- keep myself reminding not to tunnel-vision, and be in range of the node to interrupt a cap if necessary.

- keep an approx. count of our team in a fight versus the enemy team, while keeping an eye on our node defenders health bar as well. Move the hell out of engagement and go to other node as soon as we seem to overpower the enemy. If our team is zerging to me, go back where I came from if it's necessary. I've seen so many matches lost on the mindless zerg it is one of my priorities to not allow it to happen.

- if I happen to be guarding, I must not be ninja-capped.

- try to keep control of mid in huttball... seriously, in pugs it is almost impossible. Once the opposite team scored 6 of the 8 on our team is at our half, leaving mid to the enemy, resulting in another goal, and another. If I roll with my buddies we make a rule not to go defensive, we leave it to the rest of the team.

If I'm able to follow the above I know I pretty much did everything I could for the team. In pugs the biggest problem is that there is no way to actually learn and practice new tactics. We are building a team for ranked now, and in the few matches we played recently we learned more from the opposite team about certain tactics than ever before. So what I can suggest is to set some goals for yourself, follow them, and if you want to learn new stuff go ranked- because otherwise you won't be able to apply them even if you are aware of said tactics.

What class are you buddy? There are different variants to measure yourself based on your AC, which determines your usefulness.

As a shadow I grade myself on the following:

1. Objectives - Am I playing tactically or am I going for kills/damage?

2. Deaths - Am I playing smart or am I jumping in hoping for the best? Also, since I'm usually a solo guarder my deaths can have a huge impact on the flow of the game. If I can kill the attackers then no need to bring help from others trying to capture another objective.

3. Protection - Am I playing selfish or am I playing with team tactics?

the things that make you a good player do not show up on the scoreboard.

most of them have already been posted here, but things like calling incomings early/often, properly guarding so you cant be easily ninja-capped, marking and focusing healers, not zerging mindlessly, using your CC to help achieve objectives, etc.

if you do all the little things, the better you will get at them, and that will eventually transfer over to increased performance on the scoreboard.

This is a good thread with good responses!

Too many people think that big damage, medals and mvp votes indicate how good you are - it does not!

SWTOR has warzone objectives. If you want to win, you play for the objective.

You don't need the best gear for that, just a good head on your shoulders!

When you start getting more MVPs but it is not definitive.

The question is kinda silly,you are getting better when you are successful at certain things that you just did and feel good about and you weren't able to do before.For example holding grass for enough time againts 2,3, people till reinforcements arrive.

I suppose the definition of "better" might be part of this question. Having seen several posts about how all the various parts of the scoreboard are next-to-useless numbers for actually measuring how good a player is at "warzoning", it got me wondering... how do you tell if you are getting better at warzone-PvP? I guess if you go with premades, you can go into ranked matches, and tell as a team. But what about individually?

 

I'd like to think I could "just tell" by how I fare (fair?) in individual melees in the WZ. But they are so varied. Last night, as an example, I played about 6 WZs. They were all so lopsided. For 4 of them my team was getting crushed by the proverbial premades. My numbers, and everyone elses, were dismal. Felt like I melted in any fight I was in. Then the other two were completely the opposite. We melted anyone who dared to show their ugly imperial head.

 

I guess since the final game I played was one where I was a melter instead of a melt-ee, that must mean I suddenly got awesome at this game! Right?

I hate to say it but stats are a good start.... some will disagree but it does give indication that you understand your class and it's abilities. So the scoreboard CAN be some indication.

Also, team work... as a tank or healer are you supporting your class or playing the role for your own survival?

I had a guy rage on me in regs for being a noob because we rolled them and apparently I was a p**** for stacking healers on our team... IDK even know where to start but anyways... my point. I LOL'd at him at the end because he literally had 45K damage and 450 prot... no, I'm not missing any zeros, as a PT tank. Clearly a player who rolled a tank just so he didn't die as often... 450 prot could be done by doing a single target taunt on a healer who accidentally tapped his basic attack. So, be for your team more and for yourself less... Don't be this guy.

Even in a regaular war zone with random players... this is in the end a team game. As a carnage marauder for example... many would look at it as just a DPS job... kill stuff and move on. I look at how it can help the team in multiple ways, for example... is my predation up when we need to rotate, making it easier for my healers to kite by peeling for them and keeping attackers rooted. Things like that get over looked but it's that kind of team play that makes good players. The list can go on and on but that's jsut to give you an idea to look outside of the box.

Huttball for example... are you apart of carrying the ball, controlling mid? Or are you just attacking anything that moves?

More often than not, wins go to better team work and not individual skill. Not that individual skill isn't very important... but it doesn't make a good player. There needs to be a happy medium for the two.

For me, things just start to slow down more and then from there, I start to realize when I missed a chance to do this move, or if I was attacking someone right as a teammate mezed them (sometimes, you are at a point of no return and can't stop it, but you learn to understand when that is going to make sense and watch out for it). It then just becomes a matter of time where you see individually things that you left on the table.

When I first started, it was run back in and start attacking right away. Would pick up good numbers, but how many times I was running into a 2 or more vs 1 was ridiculous. So I learned to try to anticipate and play as a teammate rather than the solo hero. Still think I could do better.

Another example is, I see my stealth buddy running next to me toward a guarded node, as much as I want to engage and get us in a 2 v 2, I learned I can provide a great decoy sometimes and draw the other team off to attack me. I understand when I as a stealther might be the best guard available. I look for my healers and do anything I can to buy them time or keep someone off them.

Another thing I noticed getting better at is I will use a stun that doesn't fill resolve. If they break it with less than full, I hit them with another stun or mezz and they are stuck. Understanding that helps you understand when to use your breaker. You also need to figure out that just throwing stuns randomy on people are bad in some situations, like someone carrying the Hutt Ball. Other times, waiting for their white bar to go down before trying to use a stun or mezz is a good idea as to not waste a stun. Watching that resolve bar is a good idea in general.

There's so many things. I guess the important part was in the beginning about the game slowing down for you. The more comfortable you are with the class you are playing, you will just know when you screwed up and use that to learn from it even if it worked out.

I suppose the definition of "better" might be part of this question. Having seen several posts about how all the various parts of the scoreboard are next-to-useless numbers for actually measuring how good a player is at "warzoning", it got me wondering... how do you tell if you are getting better at warzone-PvP? I guess if you go with premades, you can go into ranked matches, and tell as a team. But what about individually?

 

I'd like to think I could "just tell" by how I fare (fair?) in individual melees in the WZ. But they are so varied. Last night, as an example, I played about 6 WZs. They were all so lopsided. For 4 of them my team was getting crushed by the proverbial premades. My numbers, and everyone elses, were dismal. Felt like I melted in any fight I was in. Then the other two were completely the opposite. We melted anyone who dared to show their ugly imperial head.

 

I guess since the final game I played was one where I was a melter instead of a melt-ee, that must mean I suddenly got awesome at this game! Right?

Short answer - situational awareness.

Long answer - as you grow as a player, you'll start noticing that a lot of things you had to think about specifically become reflexive. Using skills, scanning area, pinpointing enemies and enemy types, assessing threats, adjusting own position to minimize your personal exposure and to maximize your own threat zone.

You'll start zooming the camera in and out on reflex at certain map spots, you'll turn camera around corners, you'll travel the safest, least exposed paths in warzones, you'll stop thinking about what skill are you going to use next, you will interrupt what needs to be interrupted, and nothing else, you'll be one step ahead of the enemy with your countermeasures.

You will want to reconfigure your UI multiple times. You will want to rebind your keys and find new efficient keybinding combinations and setups. Don't be afraid to strip everything down and build a new setup from scratch.

And, finally, you'll notice that you grow as a player when you stop feeling frustration over small things. You'll learn to be efficient and have fun by playing smart, even if your entire team is composed of the most awful of bads.

Short answer - situational awareness.

.

This is a good short version of everything said here... while understanding your class and putting up some numbers factors into it... I know many people who can put up insane numbers but are considered bad players by most.

IMO, First, fully understand your class. Then start to understand every other class and how you can counter each of them while they are trying to do their job.

Self- critique and being able to take criticism I believe makes for the best players, and the want to always improve.

just understanding the role of your class, what makes you better then every other person who plays your class?

IE: A bubble sorc

Did I keep everyone's bubble up, while being attacked?

Did I not redo the bubble before the stun was popped? (so I could get 2x bubbles per person as soon as their first is done)

Did I use my pulls to advance my team to the right area or to save them from being FF'd?

Did I use my overload almost every time it was off CD, so that I basically controlled the enemy's movement for 6 out of every 20s?

Did I push my overload to the highest reach/distance it can go? (IE if i am knocked off near the 2nd fire on the pit, did i jump back towards the fire while overloading to knock the enemys off?)

Am I using all of my escapes / pots to the maximum efficiency?

Am I constantly watching to LOS people and still keep my team alive?

Drilling every small thing into your own head will make you better than others.

Wow, thanks for all the great replies! You've all given me so many things to think about!

I play a shadow tank (on POT5 - Imagynary). I've traditionally been the solo guard at the "off" node, and I think I do fairly well there. Got ninja capped early in my career and learned my lesson about not being distracted. I probably should focus on learning the other classes, and then actually paying attention to the class I'm fighting. I think that might be my biggest blind spot, since I at least think about most of the other stuff mentioned once in a while. Still, so much to remember... throw those taunts out, swap guard, CC things attacking healers, stop the cap, don't fill the resolve of the ball carrier, keep track of balance of numbers, watch for "inc" calls, learn rotations better so I'm not constantly trying to attack with an ability on CD, stop trying to use CC on people with full resolve bars... sorry, my head is spinning now.

When you start getting more MVPs but it is not definitive.

 

The question is kinda silly,you are getting better when you are successful at certain things that you just did and feel good about and you weren't able to do before.For example holding grass for enough time againts 2,3, people till reinforcements arrive.

MVP's, don't think so, found that the more you try to do good (like planting and stuff) you don't get MVPs.. people go for numbers when voting, either top healing, top medals or top damage. (or special preferences like that guy who always comes first when I call ics)

MVP votes don't indicate any more than damage heals or objective points. Often people just vote for their guildies or group members regardless of the outcome.

Huttball is an example of a warzone where you can be the biggest contributor to your team's victory and have low damage/heals and few objective points, by means of firepulls/friendly pulls/KB off platforms/goal assists/ccing enemies on your carrier/rooting enemies/predation/etc.

I'd say any time you go into a game and learn something, it's a sign you're getting better. If you aren't learning anything, you're probably not improving much. Try something new in that case.