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Is the Empire really driven that far back?


Denatharion

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Coming from someone with 8 Imperial 50s, all LS V, you couldn't speak to a more loyal and patriotic Imperial :p

So I know just how badly the current situation sucks. And with the new lead writer being the writer who did the JK story (very mediocre at best) it's not looking hopeful for us.

 

However, it is all explained. (I have 2 republic toons I'm leveling, a JK at 43 and a JC at 30).

 

OBVIOUSLY SPOILERS BELOW, READ AT PERIL

 

Due to massive Imperial disorganisation, huge amounts of petty and stupid Sith in-fighting, the Star Cabal & Republic determination to wipe the Empire out, we don't really stand a chance. As Darth Marr says himself during the opening convo on Makeb, he says to my Warrior and my Inquisitor that if the Sith (predominantly -us- being the most powerful and/or influential sith in the empire) don't start working together in solidarity, honour and patriotism we are doomed. The Sith (majority of them) care about nothing else but power, and themselves. They are a blight on the name of sith and should be exterminated (thanks Bane).

 

Anyway, I ramble.

 

Empire wins Balmorra, a HUGE bonus for us. But short-lived. The Republic soon takes it back, gaining them and losing us some of the most powerful droid & weapon factories in galaxy. And we also lose Corellia (a small victory to begin with, seeing as it cost us 1/10 of our entire force, a ridiculously huge loss)- did you not play the Black Hole (Corellia bonus series) daily zone? It's kind of the point of it. We lost Corellia, and in a last-ditch effort before we retreat the planet, a small strike team are sent there (with you leading them) to destroy all infrastructure on Corellia, making it a barren, empty, worthless planet which is a drain on the Republic instead of a gain. (also being the founding planet OF the Republic its a moral loss). However, it's still a loss for us.

 

And as you said, Malgus' betrayal, the loss of another huge swathe of our Fleet (if Empire cannon really is DS, which is lame, then in FE flashpoint the DS option to kill Arkus costs us our fleet, again. Whereas LS saves it...)

And the Dread Masters, like republic getting a destroyed Corellia, its a huge morale loss for us. Dread Masters were one of most powerful weapons we had, and they just buggered off, and are attacking us. YAY!

 

Also, as is announced on Makeb (whether it's true or not), the Republic formally announces the Emperor's 'death'. a MASSIVE win for the Republic (symbolic win if nothing else).

 

The Bounty Hunter kills the Republic's Supreme Chancellor. Seems like a win for us, however all that does is bring in the new chick into power, and she is MUCH better, more efficient and war-mongering than her predecessor. All this does is make the Republic sharpen its teeth and claws.

 

As for Ilum, not a huge loss for Republic. By that time, Jaeric is old and worn-out.

 

Let's not forget (but connected to Dread Guards) EC- lots of Imperial troops defect and are killed, by us.

 

Then of course comes the Star Cabal (Imperial Agent story). a massive secret organisation who plays the Galaxy to their own needs. They puppeted the entire war, and play Republic and Empire for fools. They cause the disbanding of Imperial Intelligence - this is ultimately one of the biggest losses the Empire suffers. Imperial Intelligence is the number 1 advantage the Empire has over the Republic. Intelligence is an absolutely superb ministry of spies and assassins, and this is proven that once it is disbanded, the Republic SIS and army gains their biggest victories against us, and we have NO idea what is going or or how to stop it. The Empire crumbles without Intelligence.

 

Sure there's loads more, but I'm too eager to start playing, so I'm gonna stop writing :p

 

EDIT- how could I forget about Class stories? lol

 

Anyway: All Imperial class story final bosses (except Bounty Hunter, but explained above ^) are Sith.. it's *********** ridiculous. All Republic final bosses, are Sith. It's just SO not fair.

Sith Warrior- kills Darth Baras, genius behind the Sacking of Coruscant and the instigator of the Second Great Galactic War (the one we're in now). Ultimately, a pretty big loss... Baras being one of the cleverest Sith around.

Sith Inquisitor- kills Darth Thanaton, another loss for the Empire. Another clever and powerful Sith, traditional, honourable. The reason for his death is also pretty lame, he made a terrible arch-enemy. pointless

Imperial Agent- Act 1- Kills Darth Jadus (for fair reason, but its still an insanely powerful, clever, and logical Sith) and well, Hunter and the Star Cabal, fair enough. but still not anti-Republic. So.. for ALL of our classes, not once of us makes any big impact on the Republic.

 

However, the Republic is the exact opposite. All we (majority of crappy sith) care about is killing each other, all the Republic cares about is killing us.

You forgot to mention the part were we lost nine, yes nine Dark Council members in the space of a few years. I'm talking Darth Thanaton, Acharon, Jadus, Vengean, Baras, Arho, Decimus, Hadra, and Karrid. And that's not counting whatever happened to Zhorrid and Baras' sister. Oh and you may as well add Malgus and Serevin to the pile to, who were as good as - oh and why not throw Gravus and Lachris in there too. Its not fair! :mad:
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You forgot to mention the part were we lost nine, yes nine Dark Council members in the space of a few years. I'm talking Darth Thanaton, Acharon, Jadus, Vengean, Baras, Arho, Decimus, Hadra, and Karrid. And that's not counting whatever happened to Zhorrid and Baras' sister. Oh and you may as well add Malgus and Serevin to the pile to, who were as good as - oh and why not throw Gravus and Lachris in there too. Its not fair! :mad:

 

You forgot to mention that some, if not all, of those losses were unnecessary, since they occurred due to Sith infighting, which is something you do not see among the Jedi or Republic Military. You may see the SiS and Special Forces exchanging punches but not trying to obliterate one another systematically.

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You forgot to mention that some, if not all, of those losses were unnecessary, since they occurred due to Sith infighting, which is something you do not see among the Jedi or Republic Military. You may see the SiS and Special Forces exchanging punches but not trying to obliterate one another systematically.
So true. Oh and I hear that Imperial Intelligence has disbanded too, Great, just great. What next? Let me guess the Emperor's dea... oh wait. :jawa_wink:
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Well a lot of Jedi were killed too, and some really messed with. BH took out a few of them, so did the Agent. You kill both of Ashara's masters on Taris when getting her. And Taris may be a bigger win than some realize. Remember the Warrior storyline? That special chemical compound that can only be derived from Taris? The one that can make your blaster rifle as powerful as a Turbo Laser. Yeah, that would be nifty.

 

Also, the Republic has wasted a lot of resources and potential super-weapons. The Empire went through a couple of them because of Jedi and Trooper class stories, but still have a good one with the Silencer. Corellia is a loss for both sides. The Jedi had to commit any army of their members to take it back, and some of them turned out to be helping the Empire too. Which further leads the Republic to distrust the Jedi, since a traitor or Sith could be amongst them at any time and no one would know..

 

As for Balmorra, well...that was a hard win for the Republic. They had to put in a tremendous force to take it back and would've been screwed royally were it not for the four main classes coming in to do all the heavy lifting for them.

 

The Star Cabal was screwing both sides and was gonna try and take over the Galaxy til the Agent put'em all down. Doing that also shut down many influential leaders throughout the galaxy who were part of the Cabal and now a lot of worlds are confused and leaderless, including the Twi'leks on Tython. And let's not forget how the Republic messed with the Cathar on Belsavis. Imprisoning their prince and his followers for not joining in the "Hate the Empire!" chorus. Which I suspect leads many of the Cathar to join the Empire soon, despite the events on Taris.

 

The planet was a toxic dump and the Republic was pouring trillions of credits into trying to rebuild it. Not only did their efforts fail, but they ended up leaving all those Cathar and Nikto and others stuck there, fighting for their lives and homes against both the Empire and Rakghouls, only to be wiped out because the Republic said; "Don't worry! We'll protect you!...but first you need to work for us, build things, grow crops...construct weapons of mass destruction behind closed doors."

 

Malgus wasn't entirely wrong. The Empire needs the support of other species in order to grow strong and survive. The way he went about doing it only further damaged the Empire. And one thing though. While Imperial Intelligence may be officially disbanded, all of its members, officers and agents are being incorporated into the Imperial Military. So for now they just can't work as they normally could. And with the Agent free to move about, that can spell a lot of trouble for the Republic. The Agent knows everything about the Star Cabal. Its members, whose helped them, every deal, every place, every dirty deed and play they've made for ages, all within the Agent's hands. That information alone could cause the Republic to collapse if used properly.

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I haven't even touched Makeb yet (still doin some other stuff for fun first). But the way I see it, it'll be rather hard on the Republic. It's like "Citizens! We're gonna win the war! The Empire is driven back! All we need is one good push an-" "This just in! The Republic Senate has been lying to its citizens for years! The Cathar are in an uproar! A Jedi in the Republic SIS got hundreds killed trying to settle a grudge match with a Sith! And they spent trillions building Doomsday Weapons that were stolen and used to kill billions!"

 

*the Republic Senate stares with mouths agape*

 

*an angry mob storms the senate building*

 

*The Imperial Agent walks away after 'delivering' this intel and whistling a jaunty tune*

Edited by ReiKai
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I haven't even touched Makeb yet (still doin some other stuff for fun first). But the way I see it, it'll be rather hard on the Republic. It's like "Citizens! We're gonna win the war! The Empire is driven back! All we need is one good push an-" "This just in! The Republic Senate has been lying to its citizens for years! The Cathar are in an uproar! A Jedi in the Republic SIS got hundreds killed trying to settle a grudge match with a Sith! And they spent trillions building Doomsday Weapons that were stolen and used to kill billions!"

 

*the Republic Senate stares with mouths agape*

 

*an angry mob storms the senate building*

 

*The Imperial Agent walks away after 'delivering' this intel and whistling a jaunty tune*

I laughed so hard. :D
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Would LOVE to know that as well.

 

Reminds me of some old discussions I used to have with people, when KoToR 2 and the original Mass Effect came out. For some reason, some people immediately assume that their vision is the canon one. :\

 

How is it not canon? Well, how are you going to explain in-game when for the majority of people, the Empire is fine, and for a minority of agents, the Empire has been incinerated under Eradicator fire, and Jadus now 'rules' the Empire? it's a pretty huge 'out-there' option, which for the life of me I can't see how it could possibly work.

 

And excuse me? You're putting words right in my... keyboard? I never said mine was canon, did I? huh, DID I? No. :p

 

But anyway that's beside the point. We're discussing why the Empire's on the backfoot, not which story options are canon for the Agent. back on topic in 3, 2, 1

Edited by Kampori
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...let's face it, the Empire are going to lose this war, eventually.

 

That may not entirely be true. We have had some hints from TCW. Mace and other Jedi had talked about things that haven't been seen or used since "The fall of the Old Republic".

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That may not entirely be true. We have had some hints from TCW. Mace and other Jedi had talked about things that haven't been seen or used since "The fall of the Old Republic".
Really? Interesting, I don't recall that explicitly but I do recall what Sidious said that "once more the Sith shall rule the galaxy!" Now I'm aware that Lucas wasn't referring to much in particular, just a vague period when the Sith were in charge. However he could be referring to Darth Ruin's Empire, as that was a Lucas creation, and was very large. But again vague, BioWare could easily make it out that this was the Empire that ruled the galaxy.

 

But again, we are losing pretty badly...

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But it's like any game of Sabaac. You could be losing pretty damn hard...and just then...*Bam* the one card that dropkicks all the others, and you win the whole pot.. It's certainly possible. There is no telling how the story will play out. There may even be a point in the war where both sides must hold a ceasefire to deal with a more immediate threat to both of them. Like the Dread Masters and the Cthulhu lookin thing from TFB.
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Coming from someone with 8 Imperial 50s, all LS V, you couldn't speak to a more loyal and patriotic Imperial :p

So I know just how badly the current situation sucks. And with the new lead writer being the writer who did the JK story (very mediocre at best) it's not looking hopeful for us.

 

However, it is all explained. (I have 2 republic toons I'm leveling, a JK at 43 and a JC at 30).

 

OBVIOUSLY SPOILERS BELOW, READ AT PERIL

 

Due to massive Imperial disorganisation, huge amounts of petty and stupid Sith in-fighting, the Star Cabal & Republic determination to wipe the Empire out, we don't really stand a chance. As Darth Marr says himself during the opening convo on Makeb, he says to my Warrior and my Inquisitor that if the Sith (predominantly -us- being the most powerful and/or influential sith in the empire) don't start working together in solidarity, honour and patriotism we are doomed. The Sith (majority of them) care about nothing else but power, and themselves. They are a blight on the name of sith and should be exterminated (thanks Bane).

 

Anyway, I ramble.

 

Empire wins Balmorra, a HUGE bonus for us. But short-lived. The Republic soon takes it back, gaining them and losing us some of the most powerful droid & weapon factories in galaxy. And we also lose Corellia (a small victory to begin with, seeing as it cost us 1/10 of our entire force, a ridiculously huge loss)- did you not play the Black Hole (Corellia bonus series) daily zone? It's kind of the point of it. We lost Corellia, and in a last-ditch effort before we retreat the planet, a small strike team are sent there (with you leading them) to destroy all infrastructure on Corellia, making it a barren, empty, worthless planet which is a drain on the Republic instead of a gain. (also being the founding planet OF the Republic its a moral loss). However, it's still a loss for us.

 

And as you said, Malgus' betrayal, the loss of another huge swathe of our Fleet (if Empire cannon really is DS, which is lame, then in FE flashpoint the DS option to kill Arkus costs us our fleet, again. Whereas LS saves it...)

And the Dread Masters, like republic getting a destroyed Corellia, its a huge morale loss for us. Dread Masters were one of most powerful weapons we had, and they just buggered off, and are attacking us. YAY!

 

Also, as is announced on Makeb (whether it's true or not), the Republic formally announces the Emperor's 'death'. a MASSIVE win for the Republic (symbolic win if nothing else).

 

The Bounty Hunter kills the Republic's Supreme Chancellor. Seems like a win for us, however all that does is bring in the new chick into power, and she is MUCH better, more efficient and war-mongering than her predecessor. All this does is make the Republic sharpen its teeth and claws.

 

As for Ilum, not a huge loss for Republic. By that time, Jaeric is old and worn-out.

 

Let's not forget (but connected to Dread Guards) EC- lots of Imperial troops defect and are killed, by us.

 

Then of course comes the Star Cabal (Imperial Agent story). a massive secret organisation who plays the Galaxy to their own needs. They puppeted the entire war, and play Republic and Empire for fools. They cause the disbanding of Imperial Intelligence - this is ultimately one of the biggest losses the Empire suffers. Imperial Intelligence is the number 1 advantage the Empire has over the Republic. Intelligence is an absolutely superb ministry of spies and assassins, and this is proven that once it is disbanded, the Republic SIS and army gains their biggest victories against us, and we have NO idea what is going or or how to stop it. The Empire crumbles without Intelligence.

 

Sure there's loads more, but I'm too eager to start playing, so I'm gonna stop writing :p

 

EDIT- how could I forget about Class stories? lol

 

Anyway: All Imperial class story final bosses (except Bounty Hunter, but explained above ^) are Sith.. it's *********** ridiculous. All Republic final bosses, are Sith. It's just SO not fair.

Sith Warrior- kills Darth Baras, genius behind the Sacking of Coruscant and the instigator of the Second Great Galactic War (the one we're in now). Ultimately, a pretty big loss... Baras being one of the cleverest Sith around.

Sith Inquisitor- kills Darth Thanaton, another loss for the Empire. Another clever and powerful Sith, traditional, honourable. The reason for his death is also pretty lame, he made a terrible arch-enemy. pointless

Imperial Agent- Act 1- Kills Darth Jadus (for fair reason, but its still an insanely powerful, clever, and logical Sith) and well, Hunter and the Star Cabal, fair enough. but still not anti-Republic. So.. for ALL of our classes, not once of us makes any big impact on the Republic.

 

However, the Republic is the exact opposite. All we (majority of crappy sith) care about is killing each other, all the Republic cares about is killing us.

 

Because in the end this Empire loses. They disappear for 2 thousand years followed by peace and then war with Darth Ruin's Sith Empire, which ends with the destruction of all Sith and establishment of rule of 2

 

The stories in this era are just telling you why the empire lost. This sith empire is destroyed and perhaps even absorbed into the republic.

 

I clearly remember reading Darth Bane Path of Destruction & Rule of two. This was the main theme between jedi vs sith. The Republic always works together to fight the Empire, while the Sith Empire is always plagued by constant infighting because of the nature of sith. Darth Bane realized this and established the rule of two to ensure that the Sith philosophy is compatible with their goals

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Because in the end this Empire loses. They disappear for 2 thousand years followed by peace and then war with Darth Ruin's Sith Empire, which ends with the destruction of all Sith and establishment of rule of 2

 

The stories in this era are just telling you why the empire lost. This sith empire is destroyed and perhaps even absorbed into the republic.

 

I clearly remember reading Darth Bane Path of Destruction & Rule of two. This was the main theme between jedi vs sith. The Republic always works together to fight the Empire, while the Sith Empire is always plagued by constant infighting because of the nature of sith. Darth Bane realized this and established the rule of two to ensure that the Sith philosophy is compatible with their goals

 

The end of the Sith was when Ka'an was killed on Ruusan with the Brotherhood of Darkness. About a century before that was Knight Errant and the Republic was at war with a conglomerate of Sith Lords (a number of them family members fighting amongst themselves) and the galaxy was split again, the Republic erased coordinates of hyperspace routes so these Sith couldn't follow them back to Republic space and were stranded to fight each other. Darth Ruin may have been before this, but everything is up in the air right now.

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But it's like any game of Sabaac. You could be losing pretty damn hard...and just then...*Bam* the one card that dropkicks all the others, and you win the whole pot.. It's certainly possible. There is no telling how the story will play out. There may even be a point in the war where both sides must hold a ceasefire to deal with a more immediate threat to both of them. Like the Dread Masters and the Cthulhu lookin thing from TFB.
Ah... and this is where I bring you attention to the following, something that slipped my mind:

 

But hope still burns in millions of imperial hearts. DARTH MARR steps forward from his Dark Council seat to guide the Empire's resurgence. Aliens join the Imperial ranks, as Sith recognize the wisdom of Darth Malgus's inclusive ideas. Loyal Sith and patriotic soldiers fight to repel the oppresive Republic, not knowing that they key to the Empire's victory is at hand. ~ Star Wars: The Old Republic Encyclopedia.

 

Never surrender! :D

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quite a few jedi turn to the dark side and even if you dont kill them the council members such as bal taga and the first son step down.

 

also depending on the agent storyline imperial intelligence (the minister keeper ect) establish themselves as a shadow group like the star cabal.

 

so the future may bring new and untold horror for the republic.

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So I just finished Makeb Empire story, here's my opinion:

 

 

I don't understand all the pesimism. Sure Republic is pretty confident, but this was our victory and even though a lot of work needs to be done and Emperor was confirmed to be dead or at least unable to do anything anytime soon, still Darth Marr sounded pretty optimistic at the end and I have a good feeling about that. Sure we are still not winning right now, but there will be more oportunities to change that and the war is far from over. Btw. people saying the story is great were completely right.

 

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So I played ROTHC from the first day of EA and what amazed me was how the empire was portrayed. Darth Marr told me the Empire would be gone within a year if we didnt get the Magic stuff from Makeb (not naming it to avoid spoiling. And further in the Story he tells me we lost 3 planets already during the duration of the operation.

 

Now I know Malgus his acts and that of the Dreadmasters was a severe blow to the Empire, but the Republic suffered to from those. And they lost Ilum (With Master Jaeric Kaedan) and we won Corellia (though costly).

 

Hearing all this made me Q_Q as I am a true Imperial Loyalist ;(

 

Let's be truthful republic won the Corellia back defeated many powerful sith not going to name ony of them to avoid spoilers, They captured alot of commanders while demanding that thousand of political prisoners will be realesed. So to be fair we are loosing this war because of the lack of focus on the war the only ppl focusing on the war were Marr (Best sith in that time) and Decimus maybe angral but that's another story and that was it. The rest didn't bother with the war because they had a power play or they decided to stay out of it E.G Emperor. so yea this sums it up

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As an earlier poster said, the Empire lost a lot of planets and only one on a planet that was already in ruins. (Taris)

 

They gained nothing in this war so far, where as the Republic has had major victories on key planets like Corellia, Ilum and Balmorra.

Edited by spectreclees
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People really need to learn how to read the generic propaganda spin from the real story. Both sides always claim they're totally winning the war and just one step away from totally crushing the enemy. Corellia cost the Empire 1/10 of its troops, but it's implied it cost the Republic even more. Corellia is a founding member and one of the largest industrial planets and had the Empire held it, it'd have more than justified the cost it took to get the planet.

 

When you ask Darth Marr why you're losing despite WINNING Corellia and Ilum, Darth Marr blames that on Sith infighting and military incompetence. Apparently the Sith Inquisitor who is in charge of the fleet wasn't exactly a military genius, but more importantly it's Darth Malgus that really messed things up. The Empire was probably winning as of Ilum, and then Darth Malgus ran off with about half of the Empire's resources so yeah, the Empire is pretty messed up right now. It'd be like if Alderaan, Corellia, Balmorra, and a few other major planets all suceded from the Republic at the same time as the New Republic and declared war on the former Republic.

 

The Sith infighting is bad, but the Republic has just as much incompetence. For example Darth Baras has an elite squad watching wampa caves on Hoth instead of fighting at Corellia, and as the Trooper you get to extract a group of elite pilots who are in jail on Belsavis because apparently the paperwork needed to get those guys out of jail would take too long, or something else equally bogus. The only reason the Republic is winning is because they have the Jedi Knight randomly going rambo and conquering an entire planet by himself. Yes in theory everyone does that but canonically only the Jedi Knight is repeatedly taking down a planet single handedly against all odds.

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