Really? Your sure that a SSD wouldn't have that kind of power output? Because ISD's produce even GREATER amounts of power then a Venator.

 

I'm saying you are claiming is bunk, a Venator doesn't have that kind of power output (not even remotely in that ballpark), nor does and ISD, nor does a SSD.

 

You're just throwing out ridiculous numbers with no idea what they actually mean.

 

The tech is only comparable in that it would be able to do damage to the other. Lets look at the rule again...

 

Last I checked, Xizor didn't have a super weapon that rivaled the Death Star Superlaser...

 

Size, Quantity and Power, all 3 of which Xizor's ships outclass Revan's.

 

Revan's ships didn't have similar firepower stats because the technology wasn't available yet, most likely due to the cooling requirements associated with Turbolasers...

 

In all honesty, the power output between Xizor's ships and Revan's ships would not be as far different as you believe.

 

Despite what people like to talk about a vaunted Solar Ionization reactor and how powerful it is, the reality is that it is far less powerful than people would like to believe since it is nothing more than a glorified fusion reactor...

 

The solar ionization apparently refers to how fusion takes place within a star, the fact that Turbolasers are plasma weapons is a good indication that we're looking at fusion reactors, not to say the reactors of that size are not impressive, cause they are, but they can't even begin to produce the amount of power you are saying they can.

 

Another key flaw in your reasoning is that a lot of that power has to be used to contain and maintain the fusion reaction, we're still going to be left with a lot of power to work with, but not anywhere near the number you are throwing out there.

 

Don't misunderstand, Revan's ships would have a disadvantage when it came to available power output, unless he got them seriously refitted, but they wouldn't be nearly as weak as you believe, and Xizor's ships wouldn't be remotely as powerful as you are claiming (I mean seriously, if you want to exagerate power outputs, at least make it look remotely plausible).

 

When Revan's ships have comperable tech to what is seen in Xizor's era, they're likely to be more powerful than the Venator, the biggest issue with Revan's ships would likely be efficiency of the reactors and the intensity of the reaction taking place in the main reactor.

 

What Xizor has the advantage in is starfighters, and that is due to a key flaw in Sith Starfighters even in Xizor's era, Revan's fighters would not have shields just like TIE fighters didn't. Xizor's starfighters tended to have rather powerful shield generators and could match TIE Interceptors in performance, meaning Revan's starfighter squadrons would be seriously outmatched.

 

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

Look, I'm not exactly a Revan fanboy, and I seriously think Xizor has a serious advantage if the fight is dragged out, but not going to turn Xizor's ships into perverbial godships (which they are not), and claim that Xizor has ships that could power the Death Star Superlaser...

 

Star Wars Tech, from the time period of at least Exar Kun (or even earlier) largely hadn't changed all the way up through the New Republic era. Sure hyperdrives became faster and more efficient, some weapon and shield tech was improved over time, but the actual technology seemed to be lost and rediscovered over the course of their history, aside from things like the Death Star and Sun Crusher, there were not very many advancements in Technology.

 

Even lightsabers were relatively unchanged from Exar Kun's time period through the clone wars (aside from the addition of lightsabers being able to work underwater).

 

If we were dealing with Star Trek Technology, then yeah ships from different eras would usually be grossly mismatched, but Star Wars technological advancement seems to have been fairly minimal even over the course of thousands of years.

Edited February 10, 2013 by GarfieldJL

Edit: Just forget this whatever.

 

Edit: Anyway, lets just move on arguing about this is stupid and we really don't need to go into the power output anyway so I apologize for even bringing it up.

Edited February 10, 2013 by Wolfninjajedi

All I am going by is what it stated on the page, trying to bring actual science into this is moot because technology works different in the SWU, its fantasy so trying to say how its impossible to produce such power isn't gonna work here.

 

Examples being seeing lasers being fired, and sound in space. Or LIGHTsabers. More like plasma sabers. Just saying:rolleyes:

Venator's don't use fusion reactors, they use hypermatter annihilation reactors the Death Star used a hypermatter reactor. Which was probably on a much bigger scale.

 

Hypermatter likely refers to plasma, which is the 4th state of matter. Seriously the energy output you're giving us is something you'd expect from a Death Star, not a Venator...

 

I just had to google the power output, and stand corrected on it not being plausible, however you're not going to like what I found...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tsar_Bomba

 

The power output is seriously outclassed by a fission bomb, but even then I seriously doubt Venator has that kind of power output (but that is only for a single instant in time, we're talking a sustained energy output that isn't even remotely realistic), cause the containment needed to deal with the pressures associated with that kind of energy and avoid destroying the ship would be off the scale, and we're still looking at energy outputs in the realm of planetary destruction (literally).

 

Though now why is it impossible that, the ships can't produce such power? I probably should have clarified, at max power with the reactor transferring most power to its weapons that it can produce.

 

So you're telling me 107 Venators would have a larger energy output than Earth's sun....

 

All I am going by is what it stated on the page, trying to bring actual science into this is moot because technology works different in the SWU, its fantasy so trying to say how its impossible to produce such power isn't gonna work here.

 

Or the fact you have a bunch of people trying to throw out numbers that they don't understand to make fictional technology look impressive.

 

107 Venators would supposedly produce more power than our entire sun produces... Looks to me that whomever came up with the fictional stats had no idea what the numbers he threw out actually meant. Unless 107 Venators are capable of incinerating a planet (literally), the numbers you are giving have to be tossed out.

 

384.6 YW – astro: luminosity of the Sun

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Orders_of_magnitude_(power)

 

In astronomy, luminosity measures the total amount of energy emitted by a star or other astronomical object in SI units of joules per second, which are watts.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Luminosity

Its on the page of the Venator is where I got the number, but anyway this is all fantasy trying to apply actual science to this is retarded cause things just work differently in other universes, the SWU has its own laws and rules is what I am getting at. So lets just move on with this. Edited February 10, 2013 by Wolfninjajedi

The bottom line is, Venators are simply better than Revan's capital ships.

 

And remember, these ships were readily avalible reenforcements to small Balck Sun asteriod bases throughout the galaxy, so there are many of these unders its control. Enough to make fleets for Xizor, and destroy Revan's fleets.

Now hold on.

 

Hold on a second.

 

You are trying to compare logic, to something fake?

 

Do you understand what you are doing?

 

This is star wars. THERE IS NO LOGIC

 

PARSEC is a measurement of distance in the SWU

 

All your logic, and google'd examples, are hearby invalid.

The bottom line is, Venators are simply better than Revan's capital ships.

 

And remember, these ships were readily avalible reenforcements to small Balck Sun asteriod bases throughout the galaxy, so there are many of these unders its control. Enough to make fleets for Xizor, and destroy Revan's fleets.

 

That's only due to the different in technology of the eras, the technology seen with the Venator, didn't exist to that level back in Revan's time.

 

We have to view their tech difference due to era's as being largely irrelevant remember, unless there is some other overriding reason why one side would have superior tech over the other.

 

You have a better argument concerning the differences in Starfighters than capital ships, cause Revan would definately have refitted his ships as the technology became available.

OK, looks like we need some klarification here (yes that was a pun ) concerning the matchups between fleets. Firstly lets chuck all the specifics out of the window, because frankly its very difficult to compare two ships from two eras even in Star Wars. Especially considering the time gap is over 3,000 years. And concerning the following rule:

 

'Technology level is universal (unless considered archaic or advanced at the time): blaster fire, armouring, lightsabers etc. are all the same regardless of period, all that matters is size, quantity and power.'

 

We've got to take this with a pinch of salt too. When I say 'quantity' I realise that refers both to no. of ships, but also no. of gun batteries as well. But even those kind of numbers are heavily influenced by time period. A Venator for example, despite being roughly the same size as a centurion, possesses a greater number of gun batteries. I mean there are certain turret types e.g. the heavy dual turbolaser turret, that didn't even exist in that time period. And no ship really possessed anywhere near the number of gun batteries that the likes of a Venator possessed in the Old Republic era. So that's purely an era advantage and pretty unfair.

 

Yet we can make some sort of comparison if we decide the following as K-Canon: the Centurion possesses 75% of the strength of an Imperial I-class Star Destroyer. And the Interdictor possesses 75% of the strength of a Victory II-class Star Destroyer. Those percentages being based on the length of the vessels and that cited comment on Wookieepedia (which is all we have to go on concerning cross-era comparison.)

 

Based on that, I've created the stats below, so you can 'accurately' compare Revan's fleet with whatever Xizor has:

 

==========================

Centurion-class battlecruiser:

 

6 heavy turbolasers

8 medium turbolasers

45 heavy ion cannons

50 point-defense laser cannons

6 tractor beam batteries

4 proton torpedo tubes

 

==========================

Interdictor-class cruiser:

 

25 medium turbolasers

15 point-defense laser cannons

7 heavy ion cannons

7 tractor beam batteries

 

==========================

K-Canon. Non-negotiable.

Edited February 10, 2013 by Beniboybling

'Technology level is universal (unless considered archaic or advanced at the time): blaster fire, armouring, lightsabers etc. are all the same regardless of period, all that matters is size, quantity and power.'

 

At the point where this debate is centered fully around this rule, I think it's safe to say that it's unnessesary, over-complicates things, and forces us to debate things that simply don't exist in the Star Wars galaxy.

 

It's become a pointless wash anyways.

 

I suggest forgetting fleets altogether and that we all start considering endgame.

At the point where this debate is centered fully around this rule, I think it's safe to say that it's unnessesary, over-complicates things, and forces us to debate things that simply don't exist in the Star Wars galaxy.

 

It's become a pointless wash anyways.

 

I suggest forgetting fleets altogether and that we all start considering endgame.

 

This really, I didn't particularly like the rule to start with as I know this was gonna happen sooner or later.

 

Edit: But anyway Beni, just move on and decide the winner I think this has all run its course.

Edited February 11, 2013 by Wolfninjajedi

At the point where this debate is centered fully around this rule, I think it's safe to say that it's unnessesary, over-complicates things, and forces us to debate things that simply don't exist in the Star Wars galaxy.

 

It's become a pointless wash anyways.

 

I suggest forgetting fleets altogether and that we all start considering endgame.

 

It is possible to argue there is an advantage in Xizor's favor concerning starfighters, but then Sith often have a habit of their starfighters (at least for their lowly nonforce sensitive pilots) being unshielded.

 

If Revan manages to find Xizor's location, Xizor is dead unless he can make his escape. So only way I can see Xizor winning this, is either with a trap, or one of his assassins picking off Revan. In a straight up fight Xizor would be completely outmatched.

This really, I didn't particularly like the rule to start with as I know this was gonna happen sooner or later.

 

Edit: But anyway Beni, just move on and decide the winner I think this has all run its course.

 

We can't conclude the battle now! We haven't even discussed scenarios. The majority of the debate has been about the tech rule.

We can't conclude the battle now! We haven't even discussed scenarios. The majority of the debate has been about the tech rule.

 

Hm? Eh I guess, though we did go through some of the scenarios already.

I very much hope everyone is holding back their excitement for the finals. I expect over 396 comments or so help me God I will do something crazy.

 

But concerning this debate, seems to be a lot of points for Xizor and the general consensus seems 'death by assassination/sabotage etc'. But I think we need some more definitive points for Xizor taking out Revan. I mean assassinating him is all well and good, but Revan is a Sith Lord and he is aware that Xizor - being a crime lord - is not going to attempt to destroy him via one-on-one combat or in a large scale duel. He will expect assassination, sabotage etc etc. because that's how crime lords work. To ward against such a threat he will likely do one of the following: lock down his vessel, no-one goes in or out without his permission or retreat to the Temple of the Ancients on Lehon, which is something of a natural fortress not to mention a hidden one. In both situations it suddenly becomes incredibly difficult for Xizor to kill Revan.

 

What's more Revan may very well anticipate evasive and underhanded tactics from the 'Prince of Crime' and so will be wary of charging straight into Coruscant - infact now I think about it its a pretty dumb tactic anyway - only to have Xizor flee. Instead he will likely send assassins to scout the area, if Xizor is there they've got a pretty good chance of killing him. But if Xizor has retreated already (more likely scenario) they will find nothing and report back to Revan. Which means Xizor's decoy will fail (did I just argue with myself there?) That's all I've got for now. I leave you guys to come up for counter points for Xizor and Revan supporters to come up for a death scenario for Xizor...

Edited February 11, 2013 by Beniboybling

The big problem I see with Xizor's assassins actually managing to kill Revan is the fact aside from Malek, Revan's forces were extremely loyal to Revan up until Revan supposedly died and Malek seized control.

 

I don't see it being likely that Xizor could get assassins close enough to kill Revan all that easily.

 

On the flipside Xizor's underlings are too scared to betray Xizor unless they knew it was likely Revan was going to clobber Xizor, they won't jump ship.

 

I could see Revan resorting to orbital bombardment to kill Xizor if all else failed, but biggest death thing I can see for Revan is the building of an HK-48 to hunt down and eliminate the scaled meatbag.

The big problem I see with Xizor's assassins actually managing to kill Revan is the fact aside from Malek, Revan's forces were extremely loyal to Revan up until Revan supposedly died and Malek seized control.

 

I don't see it being likely that Xizor could get assassins close enough to kill Revan all that easily.

 

On the flipside Xizor's underlings are too scared to betray Xizor unless they knew it was likely Revan was going to clobber Xizor, they won't jump ship.

 

I could see Revan resorting to orbital bombardment to kill Xizor if all else failed, but biggest death thing I can see for Revan is the building of an HK-48 to hunt down and eliminate the scaled meatbag.

 

What is an HK-48?...There isn't such a thing, do you mean an HK-50? Though assassinating Xizor is easier said then done, he already has survived an attempt on his life before and he himself is no slouch in combat.

Edited February 11, 2013 by Wolfninjajedi

I very much hope everyone is holding back their excitement for the finals. I expect over 396 comments or so help me God I will do something crazy.

 

My biggest argument might basically kill that number- or grow them, who knows. But I hope it is exciting. Be prepared for spamming- you have been warned.

What is an HK-48?...There isn't such a thing, do you mean an HK-50? Though assassinating Xizor is easier said then done, he already has survived an attempt on his life before and he himself is no slouch in combat.

 

Revan built HK-47 supposedly... What's to stop him from building an HK-48?

Revan built HK-47 supposedly... What's to stop him from building an HK-48?

 

HK-47 was the model of the droid, not the number. No one ever created the parts or manufactured an "HK-48", HK-50's were the next model after HK-47, not an HK-48.

HK-47 was the model of the droid, not the number. No one ever created the parts or manufactured an "HK-48", HK-50's were the next model after HK-47, not an HK-48.

 

The point I was making is what's to stop Revan from making a new highly proficient assassin droid...

The point I was making is what's to stop Revan from making a new highly proficient assassin droid...

 

Because there is no specifics/information that is canon on the droid. Could Revan make another assassin droid? Yes, would it be allowed for this? No, reason being...its pretty much a blank chassis and you'd be able to throw in whatever to make sure the assassin droid is the best thing ever.

 

Without actual canon information, its just not gonna fly here.

Edited February 12, 2013 by Wolfninjajedi

Because there is no specifics/information that is canon on the droid. Could Revan make another assassin droid? Yes, would it be allowed for this? No, reason being...its pretty much a blank chassis and you'd be able to throw in whatever to make sure the assassin droid is the best thing ever.

 

Without actual canon information, its just not gonna fly here.

 

Just use similar specifications as HK-47 or an HK-50...

 

In any event, if Revan can force Xizor into having to play this as a military campaign, Revan will win.

 

If Xizor can force this into an underworld style situation, he has the advantage.

I really want to write a scenario for this, but I'm too lazy at the moment. Keep it open for a day and I'll have one or two, promise. Edited February 14, 2013 by Warren-Stride

Just use similar specifications as HK-47 or an HK-50...

 

In any event, if Revan can force Xizor into having to play this as a military campaign, Revan will win.

 

If Xizor can force this into an underworld style situation, he has the advantage.

 

Then he might just wanna go with an HK-50, there is literally no difference between HK-47 and HK-50. The only notable difference between the two units, is that 47 has a different personality and a long history, and HK-50 having a different armor color scheme....aside from that fact, I haven't seen anything that shows them being different...in terms of being an assassin droid and killing their targets, even if there is a difference between 47 and 50 its probably not that big of a gap.

Edited February 14, 2013 by Wolfninjajedi