It's meant to be a filler ability for AoE DPS in situations where your other key abilities are on cooldown, sure this does bring it down to a level where it's very situational, but I don't see that as a bad thing, in particular with this ability it's meant to be situational.

 

It is meant to be your aoe when you are fighting multiple enemies. you have a basic attack if you need a filler. now it isnt worth using at all.

Although that is a fair point, I think that you will be able to maintain aggro anyway even following these changes, you simply just need to readjust your group approach trash if you feel it's wiping your group. Ensure that your DPS focuses specific targets or that you (and your co-tank if in an Ops) alternate who uses AoE taunt on which pack of adds and of course, that you are correctly using your abilities and taunt/threat.

 

oh yeah, I can adjust....just a slight kick in the pants.

A 10% nerf would have achieved that.

 

Yeah that is really strange. Why nerf something dramatically, and then have to increase other abilities (for 2 separate class specs) instead of just a little nerf to the one ability causing the problem?

Edited September 20, 2017 by Decidion

I mostly concerned about tanking. This ability made trash pulls a little easier for jugg tanks to at least come close to the aoe threat generation of sins and PTs. Seems a tad overboard to me.

 

Although that is a fair point, I think that you will be able to maintain aggro anyway even following these changes, you simply just need to readjust your group approach trash if you feel it's wiping your group. Ensure that your DPS focuses specific targets or that you (and your co-tank if in an Ops) alternate who uses AoE taunt on which pack of adds and of course, that you are correctly using your abilities and taunt/threat.

What ability was it dealing more damage than? Assault and Sundering Assault? Why balance around how baddies misuse an ability?

 

Gonna use republic terminology, sorry. Chillin Screaming (CS) does more damage (assuming 33% crit) than Slash (a single target filler costing more Focus than CS) and Blade Barrage (Single target ability part of the standard rotation). Looking at the Parsley logs for both Dummy and Operation bosses, you can see that in the majority of the highest parses, the players are using this information to readjust their rotation to incorporate this overperforming ability as regularly as possible on a single target.

I'm glad the Chilling Scream AoE is getting nerfed, it did an absolutely ridiculous amount of damage. The dot did more damage than the direct damage part of Impale. That's way too much damage to be locked behind a utility.

I haven't done the math with the buffs to dots, but if this indeed leads to a higher single target dps for Vengeance, and not having to take the utility for optimal single target damage, I'm quite happy with these changes. I'm also not entirely sure about the 60% nerf, maybe that's a bit harsh. I think with the utility Chilling Scream should do slightly more damage than Sweeping Slash, that's seems like a good place for it imo.

Chillin Screaming (CS) does more damage (assuming 33% crit) than Slash (a single target filler costing more Focus than CS) and Blade Barrage (Single target ability part of the standard rotation).

Surely you jest. Slash is Assault, the most basic ability in the class. Blade Barrage is Ravage, a former channeled ability which had it's damaged gutted in exchange for not being a channeled ability. The changes to Blade Barrage/Ravage were certainly an improvement to the class overall, but to use them now as justification for additional nerfs seems sadistic.

 

The dot did more damage than the direct damage part of Impale.

Only if you're adjusting for mitigation.

 

I'm also not entirely sure about the 60% nerf' date=' maybe that's a bit harsh. I think with the utility Chilling Scream should do slightly more damage than Sweeping Slash, that's seems like a good place for it imo.[/quote']60% nerf would leave it at about Sweeping Slash values.

 

Speaking of, the sweeping slash utility is weak. It should provide trauma, and have its position swapped with the gutted Chilling Scream utility, as that won't be worth taking any longer.

Edited September 20, 2017 by Ansultares

Slash is Assault, the most basic ability in the class.

 

Slash is actually Vicious Slash, not Assault. So it's the second most basic ability in the spec .

That said looking at top parses, Chilling Scream does more damage than:

• Impale (the instant damage part)
  
• Hew
  
• Vengeful Slam
  

All of those being fairly high hitters, and this AoE dot just deals more damage than those, seems a bit odd, especially since it's locked behind a utility.

Edited September 20, 2017 by AdjeYo

I've honestly been expecting this nerf for a long time. But 60% seems way too far. And I have my doubts that the intended buffs will come close to compensating. I was expecting more like 10% - 15% nerf to chilling scream with a similar sized buff to the upfront damage on one of our bursty moves like impale.

60% nerf would leave it at about Sweeping Slash values.

 

Speaking of, the sweeping slash utility is weak. It should provide trauma, and have its position swapped with the gutted Chilling Scream utility, as that won't be worth taking any longer.

 

So basically it still deals damage in the ballpark of Sweeping Slash and it provides a movement speed boost. Not the most amazing utility, but certainly not trash. As for the Sweeping Slash utility, quite happy with the way it is, it's a solid increase to AoE damage at the cost of a skillful utility.

I've honestly been expecting this nerf for a long time. But 60% seems way too far. And I have my doubts that the intended buffs will come close to compensating. I was expecting more like 10% - 15% nerf to chilling scream with a similar sized buff to the upfront damage on one of our bursty moves like impale.

 

Don't forget, the global cooldowns previously spent on Chilling Scream can be be spent on other fillers. I think this'll even out pretty okay, since one of the dots is getting buffed, all dots are getting buffed through a passive and all melee attacks get a buff, seems not too bad imo.

Slash is actually Vicious Slash, not Assault.

My mistake. I actually did find that, but plainly forgot it in the process of finding out what Blade Barrage is (had to turn to combat proficiencies calculators).

 

So it's not the most basic ability, but the second most basic ability, the single target rage dump ability, with a relatively high resource cost and no secondary effects. I only have it bound in immortal, because only immortal lacks for damage abilities.

 

All of those being fairly high hitters, and this AoE dot just deals more damage them, seems a bit odd, especially since it's locked behind a utility.

I'm not sure how you interpret "locked behind a utility." To me, that suggests that it should be strong, because of the opportunity cost associated with utilities.

 

I trimmed the list you provided, but I find it difficult to believe you're parsing the dot as stronger than impale or hew in single target scenarios. The only explanation which stands out to me is mitigation. EDIT: Mitigation, and some funny business in regards to how dots interact with crticial hit chance.

Edited September 20, 2017 by Ansultares

This change does affect Rage/Focus, but they have other changes as well to compensate. I will be posting those tomorrow.

 

-eric

Will you also give the utility some additional value? It doesn't seem like it's worth much after the change compared to other utilities.

I'm not sure how you interpret "locked behind a utility." To me, that suggests that it should be strong, because of the opportunity cost associated with utilities.

Imo utilities should provide exactly that, a utility. Not making a whole new ability part of your dps rotation. I don't think any other utility in the whole game does such a thing.

I trimmed the list you provided, but I find it difficult to believe you're parsing the dot as stronger than impale or hew in single target scenarios. The only explanation which stands out to me is mitigation. EDIT: Mitigation, and some funny business in regards to how dots interact with crticial hit chance.

http://parsely.io/parser/view/282861/0

Each tick of Chilling Scream does about 2.5k (and then there's 240 tick, but let's ignore that one since it irrelevant), so each usage of Chilling Scream comes to about 10k (and 17.6k critted).

Impale hits on average 9.5k (17.2k critted, slightly slanted due to set bonus proc)

Hew hits for about 9.1k (16.5k critted)

 

Hell Chilling Scream makes up the largest portion of DPS on this parse, 16.3%. Clearly that's somewhat insane for a utility.

Will you also give the utility some additional value? It doesn't seem like it's worth much after the change compared to other utilities.

 

Remember there's still the 35% movement speed increase, and since you'll want to be using Chilling Scream anyways to slow down your targets I'd say there's still some argument to use it in PvP. It's probably gonna see a lot less usage in PvE though.

Thanks for destroying an only viable side of a juggernaut in PVP - damage. Keep doing more autistic stuff, bioware. DON'T FORGET TO BUFF MERC'S SHIELD.

 

- Nightrain

Each tick of Chilling Scream does about 2.5k (and then there's 240 tick, but let's ignore that one since it irrelevant), so each usage of Chilling Scream comes to about 10k (and 17.6k critted).

Impale hits on average 9.5k (17.2k critted, slightly slanted due to set bonus proc)

Hew hits for about 9.1k (16.5k critted)

So, it's mitigation. Just looking at my own tooltips, the utility is 8k, impale, hew and vengeful slam are each ~12k+. They're hitting harder, until you start accounting for mitigation. This is wildly varible in PVP, even as it's comfortably static and in favor of the utility in PVE.

 

Hell Chilling Scream makes up the largest portion of DPS on this parse, 16.3%. Clearly that's somewhat insane for a utility.

I don't disagree, and I said as much when I said I see no problem in moving damage from the utility to the core spec (poor immortal). But my own impression from the changes is that in a PVP environment, I'm looking at upwards of a 20% nerf in damage, with a compensatory 5% buff, for a net loss of 15% damage overall. Not exactly helpful to a class which is focused first in ranked, and can't 1v1 a competent healer.

 

I hope the five or so remaining guards/juggs who still do progression raiding appreciate what a hit we're taking here.

Hey folks,

 

Below are the changes that are coming to Vengeance and Vigilance in Game Update 5.5:

 

 

-eric

 

this is really awesome BUT with no new content/story there nothing to really use it on but ty anyway

this is really awesome BUT with no new content/story there nothing to really use it on but ty anyway

 

This isn't made for new content, only to make old content harder without having to balance it... At least, it's how most peoples here see it. Still waiting for an official confirmation though

 

Hey folks,

Below are the changes that are coming to Vengeance and Vigilance in Game Update 5.5:

-eric

 

Hey, will we see a correction for Enraged Defense/Focused Defense ? The heals it gives now are too low for the actual health pool of the players, making it useless in most case.

Edited September 20, 2017 by supertimtaf

Yeah, you know i'd like to be able to get a speed boost, when necessary, without breaking the aoe tho

 

 

Also right now the only viable option for a jug in competitive pvp is a defense spec and without this utility we're getting really screwed with dps - won't compete against powertech!

Edited September 20, 2017 by Alec_Fortescue

This isn't made for new content, only to make old content harder without having to balance it... At least, it's how most peoples here see it. Still waiting for an official confirmation though

 

 

 

Hey, will we see a correction for Enraged Defense/Focused Defense ? The heals it gives now are too low for the actual health pool of the players, making it useless in most case.

 

They certainly need to revisit PT and Jug defenses badly, considering how many other classes have defenses with no counter to while jug can be just incapacitated and los'd.

Edited September 20, 2017 by Alec_Fortescue

They certainly need to revisit PT and Jug defenses badly, considering how many other classes have defenses with no counter to while jug can be just incapacitated and los'd.

 

The main problem I have with Enraged Defense is that now almost any attack will bypass it, both in PvE and PvP.

In 4.0 the health gained was balanced in a way that you'd actually regain health when attacked. Now, even my Voltaïc Slash will damage a jugg.

I just hope you guys use my idea.

I knew Vengeance AOE with this utility was abit overboard but for Rage was somewhat needed ever since the nerfs to Rage/Fury Smash.

On a flip side Vengeance does lack in the single target department which Rage doesn't.

My idea is to spread Force Crush (Elemental Damage) and make it for both Rage/Fury.

It provides more incentive than a buff to a passive because it is noticeable.

 

(Nerfs should be linked to passives and buffs to abilities.)

 

I will be annoyed if Rage doesn't have the equivalent put into the AOE department and INSTEAD ADDED IN THE SINGLE TARGET DEPARTMENT.

Where it is of no use and to be fair the buff for Vengeance helps towards both single target and AOE.

So it would make Rage redundant.

So we either need Smash back to how it was all them patches ago and just put up with the PvPers whining of Smash monkey this and that or use Smash to spread Force Crush elemental damage.

 

But if that was to happen I'd be happy but I'd be even more happy if you took back the recent bloody slashes buff to Fury for better AOE capability.

 

(Just my two pence.)

Edited September 21, 2017 by DarthSealth

They nerfed Vengeance and supplemented it with tiny boost to dot ticks. lolol.

 

I'm scared for my PowerTech AP spec, even though we have the survivability of a fish on land, I can't help but think they will be "brought in line" to the magical dummy numbers.

 

yay.

 

I'm not looking forward to the next patches.

They nerfed Vengeance and supplemented it with tiny boost to dot ticks. lolol.

 

I'm scared for my PowerTech AP spec, even though we have the survivability of a fish on land, I can't help but think they will be "brought in line" to the magical dummy numbers.

 

yay.

 

I'm not looking forward to the next patches.

 

they already nerf AP in 5.3 because of deadly onslaught (prototype silo missile passive utility) ..so..all is possible with bioware

 

--------

 

can't wait the buff to rage !

Edited September 21, 2017 by Thaladan