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Debunking false ideas about Mara/Sents in PVP


Phasersablaze

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You don't understand your ability very well at all. If you died while using it then you must have clicked it as absurdly low HP and if you ever lose 50% health when you activate it then you need to L2P. Using it at full health is LOL.

 

And FYI there is a LOT of difference between UR and a stun ability. How can you even compare the two? Really guy? You really don't have a grasp of your class if you would trade UR for a 4 sec hard stun.

 

I believe his point is that UR functions similarly to a hard stun, but not as effective. He is both correct and incorrect in this statement. He is correct in that you could stun someone when you have almost no health and beat on them for 4 seconds to win the fight just as easily as popping UR. The negative to UR is that it can only be done at the end of a fight without sacrificing massive amounts of health, so it is indeed less effective than a stun. The downside to a stun, however, is that it only affects one opponent whereas UR mitigates damage by 99% on anyone who happens to attack. In a 1v1 situation, the stun is better, but in a group setting UR is still a superior ability.

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I believe his point is that UR functions similarly to a hard stun, but not as effective. He is both correct and incorrect in this statement. He is correct in that you could stun someone when you have almost no health and beat on them for 4 seconds to win the fight just as easily as popping UR. The negative to UR is that it can only be done at the end of a fight without sacrificing massive amounts of health, so it is indeed less effective than a stun. The downside to a stun, however, is that it only affects one opponent whereas UR mitigates damage by 99% on anyone who happens to attack. In a 1v1 situation, the stun is better, but in a group setting UR is still a superior ability.

 

Yeah but UR has a LOT more used than winning a 1v1 fight. We are talking godmode ability for objectives here. Nothing close to a hard stun at all.

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I really don't get the UR hate - it just doesn't break down under any logical scrutiny at all. At least I haven't heard the logic...

 

What's the difference between UR and a 4-second hard stun ability (assume, hypothetically, that a mara has a choice of either)?

 

With UR the mara is getting cc'd, taking a little damage (no joke - I've died several times from damage while under UR) and the mara is swinging away (if he's not cc'd). So far so good.

 

With a 4 second stun the mara is swinging away, not taking any damage (you're stunned) - he can't be cc'd by you (because you're stunned) _and_ he's getting healed if he has a healer on him, omg.

 

Ah, you say... but I can pop my trinket ability during the hypothetical mara 4-second stun. That is true - that's one def every two min (or so) to stop this hypothetical stun. But, you can always stun or kb or root/snare a UR affected Mara or you can vanish/sprint away or pop heals/defenses of your own or do any number of things - lots more options vs the UR mara - almost all with lower cooldowns than the trinket vs the stun.

 

Are healers afraid of maras running up to them and hitting their UR button? NO (they would -laugh- and hit you with a dot if you pulled that in a 1v1). As a mara, I would much much much rather have a 4 second stun than UR. UR is nice because it lets you pretend your a god when you're fighting 5 people and got them all to focus on you but it's a very short-lived feeling.

 

And let's not forget that while a stun never costs the caster of the stun anything, the caster of UR loses half his health. That is not something you spam for fun.

 

Note, if we're talking about a 2v2 or a 3v3 or a 4v4 situation and the mara is getting heals while popping UR every 45 secs... why are you attacking the mara at all (or -any- dps) and not the healer(s) and/or tanks?

 

Your argument is so dumb I'm not sure I should respond to it, but I will. A stun doesn't prevent a person from getting FFed, which is what kills people in pvp. GBTF on the other hand prevents you from getting FFed. People hate GBTF because it is a guaranteed 4 more seconds of life when being FFed. 4 more seconds is a long time in pvp because that means 4 seconds u can hold an objective longer, kill someone else, or be healed.

 

You do have a stun, its called force stasis. Yes it is a self stun and channeled, but it does pretty good damage. Other classes stuns may be instant, but theirs don't do much damage at all. That is the trade off.

Edited by Smashbrother
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although i agree with you about saberward being a jug/guardian only abilty it wont happen becasue it would require bw to do soem work and re-write the hole jedi/sith warrior class

 

FYI i recently speced my mara into carnage from anihlation

 

It won't, tbh, depending on how they go about it.

 

Baseline Saber Ward could be like Shadow Deflection (Defense bonus alone - most enemies on Korriban that you'd use Saber Ward against are white damage only), while Guard/Jugg Saber Ward could have its current full effect (+50% defense, 25%Force/Tech resist - although I'd bump it up to 25% *all* damage resist, or, at the very least, all *yellow* damage resist, including int/ele).

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Operatives are actually surprisingly strong. Heals obviously, but dps can do quite well too. I've been guilty of mocking operatives, so my GM rolled on, and manages a pretty respectable 1500-600 in untoptimised campaign (we carried him through it). More utility would be nice though.
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This is what people that defend marauders do. You can see it happen multiple times.

 

They provide their reasons there class is balanced, and when that is easily debunked. Well they go back to just trolling and QQing that you are hating on their class.

 

They got the best defense CD's in the game and stealth. One of those CD's is a literal god mode that noone else has, so they gotta give up something. Like removing stealth would be a start.

 

Ah class envy at its finest. Awesome talking points as well, never heard those before. :rolleyes: I also never thought I'd have to point out that my statement about hiding was sarcasm. I guess I forgot I was on the Internet. He didn't debunk anything, I just rather not go back and forth with someone who doesn't accept reality when its presented to them.

Edited by PoliteAssasin
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It won't, tbh, depending on how they go about it.

 

Baseline Saber Ward could be like Shadow Deflection (Defense bonus alone - most enemies on Korriban that you'd use Saber Ward against are white damage only), while Guard/Jugg Saber Ward could have its current full effect (+50% defense, 25%Force/Tech resist - although I'd bump it up to 25% *all* damage resist, or, at the very least, all *yellow* damage resist, including int/ele).

 

All "yellow" damage is tech/force attacks.

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Handicap? Not being able to take 70% of someone's HP without the chance to retaliate is a handicap? Hardly. I started playing Concealment OP after the nerfs, and I find it fan-frakking-tastic. You can regularly cleanse physical/tech debuffs (the vast majority of movement-imparing effects are physical/tech - I find that skill extremely, extremely useful), you have a way to cleanse *every* negative effect off your face with Evasion, you can reopen as soon as Hidden Strtike is available again.

 

Problem is - most "le DPS" Ops think that Toxin Scan is "4 hearz lul, i r dee-pee-ess", and that Evasion's only purpose is to pad their cowardly vanish escape. An even bigger problem is that many of them feel entitled to win the fight if they get the jump on a person (which doesn't require a whole lot of effort with ToR's stealth model).

 

Yes, thats why we see "teams of operatives...operate" lolololololol

 

Every class do well against bads. Thats why discussing with you is quite pointless - "every class can do well"

 

BW uses its method of catering to bads so they buff classes most bads play with. I wonder which class is ont top of food chain lolololololo

Edited by GrandMike
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Yes, thats why we see "teams of operatives...operate" lolololololol

 

Every class do well against bads. Thats why discussing with you is quite pointless - "every class can do well"

 

Weird. My 2200-rated augmented WH Marauder guildie must have been a frakking awful player to lose fights with an augmented half WH/half-BM Operative.

 

Yes, every class can do well. But every class (but DPS Merc, probably) can also own. Provided you know your enemy as well as you know yourself. Far too many people are too quick to cry foul when all they need to do is educate themselves about the class that they're fighting.

Edited by Helig
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Internal/Elemental. Right now, Ward does not seem to increase Internal/Elemental resistance.

 

Le sigh. People really need to learn game mechanics.

 

4 types of attacks: melee, ranged, force, tech

 

4 types of damage: energy, kinetic, elemental, internal

 

melee and ranged are white colored, tech/force are yellow colored. tech/force attacks can consist of any 4 of those damages, where as melee/ranged can only be energy.

 

saber ward covers all.

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Weird. My 2200-rated augmented WH Marauder guildie must have been a frakking awful player to lose fights with an augmented half WH/half-BM Operative.

 

Yes, every class can do well. But every class (but DPS Merc, probably) can also own. Provided you know your enemy as well as you know yourself. Far too many people are too quick to cry foul when all they need to do is educate themselves about the class that they're fighting.

 

Maybe the Op was a 3k+ rated player?

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Marauders don't have the best defensive CDs in the game, they don't have a stealth mode only a 4 second evasive CD, Marauders don't have healing... they aren't healers and they don't stand back and heal but they do have a spec that can raise survivability due to self-healing, and they are not the highest damage output in the game because that honor goes to Mercs who can spam TM on a Operation boss, Snipers, Madness Assassins, and Rage specs of the SW class... but Marauders are part of the highest damage ACs of the game.

 

Marauders don't have the best defensive CDs in the game,

 

Implying Saber Ward is NOT the best defensive CD in the game. And Undying...and cloack of pain.

 

 

they don't have a stealth mode only a 4 second evasive CD

 

That gives +40% speed and +50% damage reduction.

 

Marauders don't have healing

 

Don't remember the skill name but they have a skill that makes them to be healed a bit with every crit. hit with their dots only on one tree.

 

and they are not the highest damage output in the game because that honor goes to Mercs who can spam TM on a Operation boss

 

This is PVP forum not PVE. Everybody knows that Mercs/Commandos SUCKS at PVP.

"Tracer Miss...." CUT "Tracer Mis..." CUT "Tracer Miss...." CUT "Tracer Mis..." CUT "Tracer Miss...." CUT "Tracer Mis..." CUT

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im a sorceror and as a person who can kite real good and do best damage out of all the sorcs in every match and can out damage any maurader i must say this in your defense.....as a sorcerer i have a harder time killing an assasssin than i do killing a maurader. and mauraders usually dont kill me. i see thier defensive crap and i punch the floor and run away simple easy done. shut up about the game being unbalanced cuz its not im not even full WH yet and ive dropped full WH vanguards. and u know sorcs we die very fast. even with the heal and the bubble. we die fast. so with my statement made, in conclusion as a class who dies very fast unless un know how to kite. assassins are actually better than mauraders. also alot of people and i mean ALOT of people are dumb and cant pvp. u have to remember and think rl hard bout this one. Ill even make a new paragraph so u can read it multiple times.

 

Think of all the times u tryed to kill a maurader and he didnt die. theres other reasons too A he can be guarded or healed or even both. and nobody who plays this game knows how to kill the healers first and almost every tank dont use guard in pvp they try to kill and get damage and fail and get told they're noobs. so remember that next time u qq and rage about op classes. Its not biowares fault ppl are too dumb to look thru thier abiliys know em and also try to learn the other classes too so u can pop things at the right time which is obviously what these maurders are doing. personally i was pissed that chain lightning got nerfed from wrath but u dont see me whining. i got an xtra heal now. and still do good.

 

ALSO everyone complains about a dying game when world pvp is non existant because they nerfed merc comms out completely. WHY WORLD PVP WHEN U GET NOTHING!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Edited by fnslayeroc
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im a sorceror and as a person who can kite real good and do best damage out of all the sorcs in every match and can out damage any maurader i must say this in your defense.....as a sorcerer i have a harder time killing an assasssin than i do killing a maurader. and mauraders usually dont kill me. i see thier defensive crap and i punch the floor and run away simple easy done. shut up about the game being unbalanced cuz its not im not even full WH yet and ive dropped full WH vanguards. and u know sorcs we die very fast. even with the heal and the bubble. we die fast. so with my statement made, in conclusion as a class who dies very fast unless un know how to kite. assassins are actually better than mauraders. also alot of people and i mean ALOT of people are dumb and cant pvp. u have to remember and think rl hard bout this one. Ill even make a new paragraph so u can read it multiple times.

 

Think of all the times u tryed to kill a maurader and he didnt die. theres other reasons too A he can be guarded or healed or even both. and nobody who plays this game knows how to kill the healers first and almost every tank dont use guard in pvp they try to kill and get damage and fail and get told they're noobs. so remember that next time u qq and rage about op classes. Its not biowares fault ppl are too dumb to look thru thier abiliys know em and also try to learn the other classes too so u can pop things at the right time which is obviously what these maurders are doing. personally i was pissed that chain lightning got nerfed from wrath but u dont see me whining. i got an xtra heal now. and still do good.

 

ALSO everyone complains about a dying game when world pvp is non existant because they nerfed merc comms out completely. WHY WORLD PVP WHEN U GET NOTHING!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

Sorcs/Sages and Snipers/Slingers are known to be the best classes to deal with Maras (maras are crying about the bubble break stuns them). Even operatives/Scoundrels can just "vanish" and run to survive.

 

Why Marauders have better and more defensive CD's than Juggernauts/Guardians? That has no logic. In WoW terms it would be as Warriors Fury having more defensive CD's than a Warrior Tank.

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Sorcs/Sages and Snipers/Slingers are known to be the best classes to deal with Maras (maras are crying about the bubble break stuns them). Even operatives/Scoundrels can just "vanish" and run to survive.

 

Why Marauders have better and more defensive CD's than Juggernauts/Guardians? That has no logic. In WoW terms it would be as Warriors Fury having more defensive CD's than a Warrior Tank.

 

Kinda bugs me as well. Most tank CDs in ToR are pretty unimaginative/unimpressive, to be honest. The only one I really like is Shroud.

 

To be fair, though. Without those cooldowns, Marauders are a squishy medium armour class without any "physics" skill, ergo knockbacks, or pulls, and melee effective range. Their main job is to do damage, and to do damage they need to be within melee range, and that means the opponent dictates where the Marauder fights them - not the other way around. That means they're fully exposed to damage and to CC. They need those defenses not to be cut down immediately under stunlock upon entering melee.

 

However, I do not think they need *ALL* of those cooldowns, strong as they are, baseline.

Edited by Helig
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Defensive, are we now? Not really going to dissuade you. Believe what you want, if you're warm and comfortable behind the massive wall of strong opinions that you have constructed. I'm comfortable with my playing experience of several 50s, Marauder and poor underpowered Commando included, and that experience tells me that the entire "Marauders are OP" thing is just another "nerf" bandwagon.

 

But as I already said, their defensive cooldowns could use a bit of trimming. Other than that, it's the "RetPaladin syndrome" and nothing more.

 

Sorry to inform you but those are opinions of 2,2+m that left the game. Many of them were PvPers that laughed at what BW was doing.

 

We knew BW balances the game by "bad" factor back in Jan, what we didnt know then is that they would be dumb enough to continue it over time...so teh stellar results and "awesome" game noone wants to play.

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Sorry to inform you but those are opinions of 2,2+m that left the game. Many of them were PvPers that laughed at what BW was doing.

 

We knew BW balances the game by "bad" factor back in Jan, what we didnt know then is that they would be dumb enough to continue it over time...so teh stellar results and "awesome" game noone wants to play.

 

How "many" exactly were PvPers? How "many" were entitled, immature brats (who are usually the most apparent and vocal - but they never represent the actual majority)? How "many" actually were good PvPers? Finally, how "many" exactly listed "class balance" for their reason to cancel their account?

 

As I said, SWToR loses clients not because of class balance, but rather because of severe the lack of endgame content, and being slow and inflexible in terms of fixes for systems that don't work and polishing systems that do work.

Edited by Helig
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How "many" exactly were PvPers? How "many" were not entitled, immature brats (who are usually the most apparent and vocal - but they never represent the actual majority)? How "many" actually were good PvPers? Finally, how "many" exactly listed "class balance" for their reason to cancel their account?

 

As I said, SWToR loses clients not because of class balance, but rather because of severe the lack of endgame content, and being slow and inflexible in terms of fixes for systems that don't work and polishing systems that do work.

 

A little defensive, arent we?

 

PvP is EXACTLY one of those systems and it INCLUDES class balance.

 

SWOTR loses people because its overall bad game, PvP included. Yet, there are still people like you that say everyting is awesome and all the rest are immature brats.

 

Well, it seems that some people dont take it well when people vote with their wallets and negate their personal opinion. people voted with their wallets but EA didnt seem catch on a hint.

 

Enjoy your PvE side-attracton - PvP.

 

Ranked WZs - ahahahahhahahahha

 

And, oh yes, saying that some other games have it bad so its OK for SWTOR to also have it bad is NOT good defence rofl

Edited by GrandMike
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Real fight example:

 

My Mara Focus build: Leap 1700 Smash 5+k (stunned/knocbacked now/rooted) wait - receive dmg like a champ - or if just knockbacked zealous leap back for 2k dmg, hit filler 500-1200 dmg, hit smth else 1-2k + some other attack 1k-2k = cca 11-12k dmg avg. Try to smash again. Everyone shoot stuff in me now since I jumped in melee range, If no cds I'm dead in 2 seconds. Pop cds - if survive - repeat and kill target (if they have no healer or run away or they dont have stealth). Otherwise walk/jump to other target.

 

My brother with his sorc from 30 m range: zip 1k shhh3-4k smash bomp 2k zip 1k 2k 1k 3-4k 2k 1k 2k = 11-12k at the same time or even faster, he was never hit, oponnents hardly noticee him in the fight from distance. If he got hit or jumped upon/focused, he knockbacks oponnent, bubble himself, force speed run - repisition and again zip 1k smash 2k bump 3k etc 2k 1k ... lalalala. Melts ppl no problem, but you will not see shiny 5k + numbers.

 

Nerf maras defensive cds and class will lose everything, not defense, but dps will be reduced heavily because dead mara = 0 dps.

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Real fight example:

 

My Mara Focus build: Leap 1700 Smash 5+k (stunned/knocbacked now/rooted) wait - receive dmg like a champ - or if just knockbacked zealous leap back for 2k dmg, hit filler 500-1200 dmg, hit smth else 1-2k + some other attack 1k-2k = cca 11-12k dmg avg. Try to smash again. Everyone shoot stuff in me now since I jumped in melee range, If no cds I'm dead in 2 seconds. Pop cds - if survive - repeat and kill target (if they have no healer or run away or they dont have stealth). Otherwise walk/jump to other target.

 

My brother with his sorc from 30 m range: zip 1k shhh3-4k smash bomp 2k zip 1k 2k 1k 3-4k 2k 1k 2k = 11-12k at the same time or even faster, he was never hit, oponnents hardly noticee him in the fight from distance. If he got hit or jumped upon/focused, he knockbacks oponnent, bubble himself, force speed run - repisition and again zip 1k smash 2k bump 3k etc 2k 1k ... lalalala. Melts ppl no problem, but you will not see shiny 5k + numbers.

 

Nerf maras defensive cds and class will lose everything, not defense, but dps will be reduced heavily because dead mara = 0 dps.

 

Then everyone should get god mode, cloak of pain style buff and insta stealth(ops can get two now!) with increased movement speed. Almost got that commando down? NOPE he popped god mode and vanished and healed himself back up. Sounds balanced to me.

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How about you trying to play mara/sent first and then come back talk about ir.

 

Tipically I activate stealth when I want to avoid death. In these cases most of the time I am slowed and focused to death so I must go stealth. In these precious 4 seconds Mara can barrely (or CANT at all) get time to hide behind a wall. And Mara CANNOT HEAL - where did you get this ??. Every class can use medpack, when you decide to use is your will. Mara can be killed while invisible also..

 

Stealth is best used to switch focus from self.. Jump smash - everyone focuses you - go invis - attack somone else in 3-4 sec. Most noob players can't focus you again.

Edited by Loladarulz
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im a sorceror and as a person who can kite real good and do best damage out of all the sorcs in every match and can out damage any maurader i must say this in your defense.....as a sorcerer i have a harder time killing an assasssin than i do killing a maurader. and mauraders usually dont kill me. i see thier defensive crap and i punch the floor and run away simple easy done. shut up about the game being unbalanced cuz its not im not even full WH yet and ive dropped full WH vanguards. and u know sorcs we die very fast. even with the heal and the bubble. we die fast. so with my statement made, in conclusion as a class who dies very fast unless un know how to kite. assassins are actually better than mauraders. also alot of people and i mean ALOT of people are dumb and cant pvp. u have to remember and think rl hard bout this one. Ill even make a new paragraph so u can read it multiple times.

 

Think of all the times u tryed to kill a maurader and he didnt die. theres other reasons too A he can be guarded or healed or even both. and nobody who plays this game knows how to kill the healers first and almost every tank dont use guard in pvp they try to kill and get damage and fail and get told they're noobs. so remember that next time u qq and rage about op classes. Its not biowares fault ppl are too dumb to look thru thier abiliys know em and also try to learn the other classes too so u can pop things at the right time which is obviously what these maurders are doing. personally i was pissed that chain lightning got nerfed from wrath but u dont see me whining. i got an xtra heal now. and still do good.

 

ALSO everyone complains about a dying game when world pvp is non existant because they nerfed merc comms out completely. WHY WORLD PVP WHEN U GET NOTHING!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

Show me a video of you beating a similarly geared mara or you're lying or a mara player.

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Then everyone should get god mode, cloak of pain style buff and insta stealth(ops can get two now!) with increased movement speed. Almost got that commando down? NOPE he popped god mode and vanished and healed himself back up. Sounds balanced to me.

 

You misunderstand the point. Melee naturally get more cooldowns because they are obvious and can only attack at 4 metres. They are generally noticed and attacked first because to hit you they must be in your face. Ranged dps need less cooldowns, partly because they can do damage at 30-35 metres, partly because they are less noticeable, and partly because they can kite and still do moderate damage.

 

Please note that marauders can't cloak away and heal. Healing for a marauder is only possible in annihliation spec (excludes rage and carnage) and can only occur if dots are up (so limited if running away). Assuming he is attacking you, the maximum healed will be 18% with full dot stacks, so not really healing himself back up.

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