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KotFE: What's Left


DomiSotto

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This is really sad.

I mean, I can even find reasons for my favorite characters (BH, Trooper) that are not best suited for KotFE to participate in it.

I can devise plots that justify even my smuggler to be Valkorion's chosen one.

Problem is: this is getting old after 3rd character.

The story is ok, but not great. Many SW plotholes (where did DS/LS conflict go? Knights of Zakuul using force not falling to LS/DS?) but I could live with that.

 

But the repeating.... And there's simply not much to do

1. How many times do I have to run SF H2? I did it all. 2-man, 4-man, solo, solo for 1 and only achievement (even during the 1 week companion nerf), ranged, melee, alliance buffs/no buffs. If I do it again I'll probably just uninstall the game...

2. The grind on levelling planets -good idea, but it is either mind numblingly easy (Ilum, Tats, Hutta, Tariss etc) or surprisingly hard in few cases (Makeb and... Alderaan former imp bonus). But once I did every mission like 5 times it gets much too old

3. Some good ideas like forced pvp, forced World Boss or trophy hunting. But again -it is fun for 1-2 characters. I'm done on my JK, almost done on my BH, in the middle of things on my Commando and I'm dreading the gamethrough with my Inquisitor or Sage....

4. The vanilla game difficulty. Companions solo the game. No fun with equipping them, no fun with different roles. Khem Val can heal. Not fun for me.

 

I can't even create new character, and re-live their story again, as the even easier fights will put me to sleep.

 

Duh, even the DK gen chat lost its charm as half of DK residents now either left or grind SF on Odessen.

 

Overall -good try conceptually BW, ****ed up on implementation. You lost me, I'm not staying. No sub reward is gonna keep me.

In the immortal words of Han Solo" "No reward is worth this"

 

Pretty much my opinion as well. I've actually let my sub lapse once already but purchased a month because I really didn't want to walk away from my account but I'm just finding myself doing things I don't even enjoy just to have something to work towards like pvp. It's probably better anyway that I just leave before I end up bitter about the changes. It was a nice try; I'll give them that.

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I kinda got that feeling too, Domi. My Vanguard was a lot of fun, and I actually enjoyed playing a less, I dunno, super special awesome character. I appreciated that he was a good, tough soldier, but not a person of galaxy-shattering relevance, y'know?

 

While deciding who to take through KotFE, my Vanguard probably won't make the cut (unless I really want a certain companion for him). It isn't that a Trooper absolutely cannot pull off the reluctant/unlikely hero, figurehead type of character . . . it's just that I have other characters that are just so much better suited to KotFE, and the story doesn't have enough differences for me to want to take all my characters through it. So step aside, Trooper, my Inquisitor and Consular will handle this. :p

 

Ever since a series of unfortunate events, no enemy of his dies when he shoots them fair and square. Not only the 300-years old, or the millennium old powerful entity far beyond his scope and understanding (seriously, is he the best we got to deal with those? Can't we get a Jedi specializing in that sort of stuff?) , now apparently even the whiny teenage brats use the revolving doors installed on the gates of the afterlife. In fact, I am almost positive one of them is actually Darth Zhorrid come back again in a double afterlife cheating whammy.

Funny you should mention that; Vaylin immediately reminded me of Darth Zhorrid. xD Albeit a hotter, stronger version, but she has that same petulant childishness about her.

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I'm curious - a lot of people are specifically citing Valkorion's praise of the character and treatment of them as being a dealbreaker. To paraphrase, the "In all my centuries, you alone have merited my full attention" or whatever.

 

Is... is no one going to assume that he's lying and using our character for a completely different reason? It's not necessarily because we're so super special awesome. It could be for some completely arbitrary, manipulative Valkorion reason.

 

If your character does start to trust him too much, even NPCs such as Lana will remind you that he's a master manipulator who rarely says what he means. He's good at finding the right line to get the right response out of whomever he's trying to work over.

 

At this point in the story, there's nothing to indicate whether that line is an honest admission or a wicked-tongued attempt at flattery and puppeteering. I just find it intriguing that so many people seem to be assuming it's the first and not the second.

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I'm curious - a lot of people are specifically citing Valkorion's praise of the character and treatment of them as being a dealbreaker. To paraphrase, the "In all my centuries, you alone have merited my full attention" or whatever.

 

Is... is no one going to assume that he's lying and using our character for a completely different reason? It's not necessarily because we're so super special awesome. It could be for some completely arbitrary, manipulative Valkorion reason.

 

If your character does start to trust him too much, even NPCs such as Lana will remind you that he's a master manipulator who rarely says what he means. He's good at finding the right line to get the right response out of whomever he's trying to work over.

 

At this point in the story, there's nothing to indicate whether that line is an honest admission or a wicked-tongued attempt at flattery and puppeteering. I just find it intriguing that so many people seem to be assuming it's the first and not the second.

 

I absolutely agree with you. My Smuggler is a bit of a bubblehead so she believes him, but my Bounty Hunter is like get the F away from me, you jerk, I know how crazy Sith are. My Warrior will probably lick his boots, my dark side Assassin is a nut job so she will welcome him with open arms, and my light side Sorceress will probably play submissive at first just to throw him off.

 

The strange thing is, for my various Jedi, all I can see is "RAAAAAR" since this dude singlehandedly killed how many people? and that really doesn't fit at all. How does one remain detached while waging war?

 

The thing I hate the most is that Iose the companions that I love, and none of them are back yet. I feel like I want to put the game on hold until I see them again. I don't think that's what BioWare was after, but I really don't understand how they could not get how attached to our companions we are. (And no, I don't want to just summon them out of the story, because the story matters to me.)

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Is... is no one going to assume that he's lying and using our character for a completely different reason? It's not necessarily because we're so super special awesome. It could be for some completely arbitrary, manipulative Valkorion reason.

 

If your character does start to trust him too much, even NPCs such as Lana will remind you that he's a master manipulator who rarely says what he means. He's good at finding the right line to get the right response out of whomever he's trying to work over.

 

At this point in the story, there's nothing to indicate whether that line is an honest admission or a wicked-tongued attempt at flattery and puppeteering. I just find it intriguing that so many people seem to be assuming it's the first and not the second.

 

He might be exaggerating, but regardless of the extent of his obsession with the Outlander, it seems pretty irrefutable that he is obsessed to at least some degree with the Outlander.... and at the end of the day that's what I have an issue with.

 

I mean... what the hell could the aforementioned galaxy conquering, world eating, millenia old immortal invincible possibly need my Smuggler for? My Smuggler is (or, rather should be) an insignificant worm to Valkorion. Why would Vitiate forsake control of his millenium long Sith Empire, disregard his desire to consume all life in the Galaxy, forsake control of his eternal Empire that he clearly cared about, and allow himself to be killed all so he could share the mind of a Smuggler?

 

Sure, you can disregard Valkokrion's words as manipulation or whatever, but not his actions. And his actions back up his words. Why would he forsake all his centuries of political and military power, and even his physical life all to share the mind of the Smuggler if he didn't actually really, deeply care about the Smuggler in some way ("merit my full attention"). And even if he his just using the Smuggler as a means to an end as you're proposing.... I say again.... what possible end does Valkorion want accomplished that he, an immortal invincible god with immense political and military capabilities, couldn't do, but a ~30 year old smuggler can?

 

In any case.... the story isn't over yet, and I'll be around to see what Bioware does with it. But I'm very, very skeptical that Valkorion's presented obsession with the Outlander will be resolved in a way that is a satisfying, sensible conclusion to what has been presented thus far to his character and story, and the stories of SWTOR and even KOTOR as a whole.

Edited by Swissbob
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I mean... what the hell could the aforementioned galaxy conquering, world eating, millenia old immortal invincible possibly need my Smuggler for? My Smuggler is (or, rather should be) an insignificant worm to Valkorion. Why would Vitiate forsake control of his millenium long Sith Empire, disregard his desire to consume all life in the Galaxy, forsake control of his eternal Empire that he clearly cared about, and allow himself to be killed all so he could share the mind of a Smuggler?

 

My thought was always that he was trying to hide in plain sight.

 

Also, who doesn't want a new 30 year old body?

Zash certainly did.

 

Edited by Cedia
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My thought was always that he was trying to hide in plain sight.

 

Also, who doesn't want a new 30 year old body?

Zash certainly did.

 

Well, first.... why hide? All of his previous goals, whether it was to bring the Sith to greatness, conquer the galaxy, bring Zakuul to greatness, or consume all life in the galaxy.... all of them don't really involve hiding, and in fact he's gotten farther away from all of them by.... well.... forsaking all progress on all of them to inhabit the Smuggler's mind.

 

And second.... how does inhabiting the Smuggler's mind help him hide? He was doing a damn good job of staying hidden it before that.... all throughout the vanilla storylines, the Emperor was a completely mysterious figure that basically no one know how to contact or confront, as he worked through various host bodies and servants. After Shadow of Revan, he was an invisible force spirit travelling somewhere in the galaxy.... no one had any clue where he was, or where he was going to strike (not to mention he hid whole Empires for decades and centuries at a time, all while participating in galactic events without anyone even knowing it). He's pretty damn good at hiding.... I don't think he needs my Smuggler for that.

 

In fact, if anything, it makes him more of a target... while before no one knew where Vitiate's spirit was or how to even fight it, now a whole bunch of people know he's inside a smuggler.... and can point to the smuggler and say "Valkorion is right there"....

 

So.... I don't really get what you're saying.

Edited by Swissbob
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Is... is no one going to assume that he's lying and using our character for a completely different reason? It's not necessarily because we're so super special awesome. It could be for some completely arbitrary, manipulative Valkorion reason.

 

Becouse then he is doing a terrible job of it. Even my smuggler, who loves hearing how great he is, would get suspicious at some point. My trooper would instantly try to boot him. My BH would rather shoot himself then be posessed by a ghost.

 

Literally no character have a reason to belive entire "chosen one" ********. Those who are fit for it, like knight or warrior, know better. But we are forced, becouse they decided we should. So it's still a ****** storytelling, just for different reason.

 

And honestly, we all played enough Bioware games to know how will it end. Our smuggler WILL END UP ULTIMATE HERO, no matter how fit or unfit he is.

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My smuggler rose from a loser that lost his ship on some backwater planet, to the head of the galactic underworld and then when on to fight Revan and the Emperor himself. This is no mere movers of goods.

 

My agent fought a member of the dark council to a standstill, stopped a conspiracy that was 1000,s of years in the making, fought the Dread Lords, Revan, the Emperor and walked away victorious every time. This is no mere spy, this is someone that despite no ability to use the force, has been used by the force to lead the battle.

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Well, first.... why hide? All of his previous goals, whether it was to bring the Sith to greatness, conquer the galaxy, bring Zakuul to greatness, or consume all life in the galaxy.... all of them don't really involve hiding, and in fact he's gotten farther away from all of them by.... well.... forsaking all progress on all of them to inhabit the Smuggler's mind.

 

And second.... how does inhabiting the Smuggler's mind help him hide? He was doing a damn good job of staying hidden it before that.... all throughout the vanilla storylines, the Emperor was a completely mysterious figure that basically no one know how to contact or confront, as he worked through various host bodies and servants. After Shadow of Revan, he was an invisible force spirit travelling somewhere in the galaxy.... no one had any clue where he was, or where he was going to strike (not to mention he hid whole Empires for decades and centuries at a time, all while participating in galactic events without anyone even knowing it). He's pretty damn good at hiding.... I don't think he needs my Smuggler for that.

 

In fact, if anything, it makes him more of a target... while before no one knew where Vitiate's spirit was or how to even fight it, now a whole bunch of people know he's inside a smuggler.... and can point to the smuggler and say "Valkorion is right there"....

 

So.... I don't really get what you're saying.

 

Well, the entire galaxy started hunting him after Ziost, and it only got worse when he showed himself by attacking. I don't think he's scared, but I think he certainly knows that everybody except those in Zakuul are after him. Also, maybe he's thinking ahead -- what happens when people in Zakuul find out what a monster he is? Won't the pitchforks come out? Maybe this is his escape. At the very least, I think it's his way to test his children and perhaps escape them also.

 

And as it stands, very few people know that he is in your character's mind. It isn't common knowledge.

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I will straight-up admit I have never played another Bioware game, so I have no previous history to color my view of their storytelling.

 

I would disagree that his actions support his words - all they prove is that he needs the PC for some reason, not that he respects them or values them in their own right. And for some classes, the lie may be exaggerated, but it's got the right texture. A lot of Warriors might be like "never again, liar" but I'm sure plenty of them thought being hand-picked by the Emperor himself to be his Wrath was important. They would want to believe the lie, to recapture the feeling they had before SoR or Ziost. The Jedi Knight might not want to hear it, but it's got the right texture for them to believe it, thanks to their confrontation and victory in Chapter 3.

 

The reason he gives behind the lie is even more palatable - the part about matching his will to survive. However we choose to roleplay our characters, their mettle is unquestionable just because they've made it to the part in the story where KotFE takes place. Most of them have done something that no one else could, even if (in the case of Trooper) it was just part of their job, or (like Bounty Hunter) defending their way of life.

 

I don't think we should be making any assumptions about his motives this far along in the story. It could be as simple as needing a strong, new body and choosing our PCs. It could be as complex as needing to hitch a ride in us as part of a step in some century-spanning, Rube Goldberg-like chain of events that leads to a particular outcome he desires. Is the writing staff at BW talented enough to pull off that last one? I don't know. I've read plenty of authors who were, and I'll give them the benefit of the doubt while I play through the story.

 

Especially as they're stressing the concept of 'destiny' so much, in so many ways and offhand comments, that it seems more probably they'll subvert it than embrace it.

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The only thing left from the past is a single letter you might get

from your love interest.

My trooper got two, one from Aric and one from Theron. Here, however, is where my experience of KotFE and the persona of my characters differs from yours.

 

I had been thinking of her as hooking up with Theron again when he showed up. (Footnote: I did chapters I to IX on an insta-60 first, so I knew more or less what was coming.) Then she got to the scene by the pool with Lana, and you know what? I couldn't do it. I couldn't turn down the thing the game was offering her. The events she had just lived through, with her whole world being turned on its head, combined with the amazingly well done visuals of that scene, hooked up with some s**t going on in my life and the life of an old friend(see below), and I clicked [Flirt], then and any time a Lana conversation offered it afterwards. And I did it right in the notorious one as well...

 

Why? Because my character's persona isn't in the game. It's in my head. She is, partially, a reflection of me (which is odd, because I'm not a woman, nor am I a cyborg, nor a soldier, nor a citizen of the Republic). If you think about it, it can't be any other way - the game offers choices at each dialogue wheel, and those choices do not all reflect the same sort of personality. Somehow, you decide which you want, and the combination of all those decisions *becomes* the persona of your character.

 

Anyway, for the terminally curious, here, in broad strokes and a spoiler box, is what lurked in my head that hooked up with this previously-straight soldiering woman who fell for Lana.

 

The thing in my life is simple, and really serves mostly as a reason why I wound up having a conversation with the old friend. Back in July, my wife finally succumbed to a kidney cancer. After she went, an old friend I had met when I worked in London suggested I should have a day out, and come down to see her for lunch in Paris (for entirely separate reasons, we both now live in France). There was no romantic "exchange" between us, just lunch and a conversation, but that conversation revealed things, like why she had moved to Paris in the first place.

 

See, she had said, more or less in so many words, that she moved to Paris because her father had come down with some more treatable form of cancer. On the face of it, that's a pretty weird thing to say, because her father *doesn't* live in Paris. I asked what she meant, and she explained.

 

Like my trooper, her life was turned upside down by the news. She broke off a long-duration straight relationship, and followed a somewhat tortured path involving artists' colonies and similar, and hooked up with a woman in the aftermath. (She sounded like this had actually surprised her.) And two months later, as Kylath Argentis, formerly C/O Havoc Squad, looked at Lana Beniko by a pool in the Endless Swamp on Zakuul, this conversation crawled out of my memory and clicked on a [Flirt] option for me. By doing that, it became part of her persona.

 

*This* is how we construct the persona of our character, by synthesising elements from around us, combining them with our preconceived ideas of who and what the character is. That is, it is real role-playing, creating a detailed role, a whole person, for our in-game avatar.

 

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To players who love this solo planet story / Alliance companionville expansion: well met and I am truly happy for you. To Bioware from a purist backer: you can have your expansion - just f***ing give us the rest of our game back. Please.

 

I don't know how level synch can be this disruptive for you and your wife or anyone else (referring to your post prior to this one.) I started a jugg last weekend because I wanted to experience the class story arc again. I did all the quests on Korriban, and from there just did the class quests and a couple heroics on each planet. Until I got to Voss, I was so overlevelled for each world (I was lvl 32 when I hit tatooine, for example) i had to be synched down for the world. And I still felt the gear progression and with all my lvl 32 abilities I still felt powerful. I guess to some players powerful is not drawing aggro so they can farm mats or rp or whatever. That's fine, but out of many issues with this expansion--whether I agree with them or not-- level synch is the most frivolous and the one true "non-issue" for this game.

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I don't know how level synch can be this disruptive for you and your wife or anyone else (referring to your post prior to this one.) I started a jugg last weekend because I wanted to experience the class story arc again. I did all the quests on Korriban, and from there just did the class quests and a couple heroics on each planet. Until I got to Voss, I was so overlevelled for each world (I was lvl 32 when I hit tatooine, for example) i had to be synched down for the world. And I still felt the gear progression and with all my lvl 32 abilities I still felt powerful. I guess to some players powerful is not drawing aggro so they can farm mats or rp or whatever. That's fine, but out of many issues with this expansion--whether I agree with them or not-- level synch is the most frivolous and the one true "non-issue" for this game.
My wife and I are SWTOR purists who want to feel level progression as we advance through content again ... not feel chauffeured through an idiot proofed environment that silently levels with us. Up until KotFe we easily played 16 to 20 hours a week, and have done enough of it to know that there is a marked difference. Maybe that's because we actually play through stuff instead of power leveling over it.

 

We are SWTOR purists who want to feel genuine gear progression again, for both character and companion, as we level through planets and flashpoints ... trinity based and level appropriate flashpoints that test our progression at the conclusion of every planet and drop level appropriate gear.

 

We want our companion customization back. Not Barbie dress up doll customization ... REAL gear customization.

 

To paraphrase George Carlin, 4.0 cemented the pussification of SWTOR. Freedom of choice and a leveling / gear progression system that mimicked end game progression for both character and companion is what made SWTOR our game. It's why we have almost 40 level 60 alts between us.

 

The level-appropriate Star Wars MMO we've endeared ourselves to is gone. Not even the courtesy of retaining key parts of it as an option ... Just f***ing gone. I'm glad you and others are happy with this one size fits all MMO. I get it. My wife and I are screwed. I get that too.

 

We were hoping for an extension of SWTOR, but got a KOTOR3 wannabe instead.

Edited by GalacticKegger
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My character used to be a Major of the Republic Army, loyal to his wife, and happy to be the the cavalry. He'd jump in his ship, go on another Mission Impossible, kill some Imps, quibble with his superior over doing the right thing... and go kill some more Imps. He had a squad that save for one person was willing to put their life on the line for him.

 

What is he now? Well, not much, really. He's lost everything, including his wife, his Republic, his squad,and his personality.

 

Ever since a series of unfortunate events, no enemy of his dies when he shoots them fair and square. Not only the 300-years old, or the millennium old powerful entity far beyond his scope and understanding (seriously, is he the best we got to deal with those? Can't we get a Jedi specializing in that sort of stuff?) , now apparently even the whiny teenage brats use the revolving doors installed on the gates of the afterlife. In fact, I am almost positive one of them is actually Darth Zhorrid come back again in a double afterlife cheating whammy.

 

Major was under the impression that Yunn, the good guy he's recruited on Hoth all those months ago, and who fought by his side from then on, will need but a comm call to rejoin. But apparently he needs to fly somewhere. Then rinse and repeat it. Where is communication technology when you need it? Or has the Galaxy adopted Alderaan's snooty approach to ignoring the modern conveniences?

 

Don't know about you, folks, but I used to think of the Easter egg hunt quests as a necessary evil to level up some, while teasing out the main story-line. But now, the Easter Egg Hunt is the main story-line.

 

So, one character destroyed, the story abandoned, and the enemies that could never be defeated.

So true...

I'm not so sure. I couldn't believe that when I started getting emails from Alliance people that I *never* tried to CONTACT MY SPOUSE AFTER FIVE YEARS of being away! I mean really the beginning (of the expansion) makes sense when you physically cannot contact your former crew/spouse, but when you can finally (in story, mind you) see a mailbox, I am making a 60 second detour to send Elara an email saying "Hey, I was a POW, but I'm alive (and escaped). Will explain after I deal with the Eternal Empire. Love ya."

 

HORRID writing that makes our "romances" feel completely inconsequential. If your character felt anything at all they'd contact them, or at least *try*. This needs to be addressed before they write any more chapters so that maybe some things could be salvaged.

 

Note that I am liking the story a lot, other than what I ranted about above.

And...

My biggest gripe about this situation is when you gift up a companion (or several) and they disappear. I mean if you get Vik to Influence 50 pre expansion and he is not an option to return when you see him, that really doesn't make sense. (I imagine that at Influence level 50, that companion absolutely adores your character, is willing to take a bullet for you, kill for you, works extremely hard at making you happy, etc.) But the "canonical story line" treats them all as not having an Influence score (or worse by having a fixed score).

 

If I have treated Vik like a criminal the whole (basic) story (well he is) and we run into each other in the (new) story, having him tell me to 'go pound sand' makes sense, but if we've been scamming the Republic for extra credits this whole time he might be quite excited to get the "good 'ole days" back. And I understand that they didn't track how you have treated them in all the conversations all this time, but this could at least be represented by the Influence score.

 

Choices *should* matter more.

 

I normally don't quote myself, but these really are what the problem with how they are dealing with certain aspects of *your* character's development - there isn't any.

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1) Sadly post 4.0 isn't for long-standing players.

2) It's for people who want to try SWTOR long enough for a month or two's sub, or a few CC sales. Then they become long-standing players. - So see point 1

3) Current endgame is BW's way of encouraging veterans to move on and free up server space.

 

Maybe the Emperor's vision that there was nothing new in the galaxy is just a mirror for the game, once you've reached 65 the long way a few times.

 

I kinda agree with some posters here. There was no reason for a 'god' of the galaxy to be interested in a simple soldier, a smuggler, bounty hunter...... He didn't control Marr or Satele, or Saresh, Garza or any of the other mega-important players in the shape of the galaxy.

 

I also think the story is a re-hash of the agent's tale. - Where you're unsure who is pulling the strings, or whether what you see and feel is real or someone else's imagination.

 

Such a shame that we've had the best out of this game, and it's now in it's twilight years.

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I have only taken one toon, my BH, through the chapters and the Alliance grind, got to 20 on all four wings. Two other toons through the chapters but just dropped them at that point due to the alliance grind and the other five are still sitting at 60 due to looking at the alliance grind. Doing H2s on all of them is just too much.

 

But as far as story, I go onto my ship with my BH to go someplace and now it is empty and I think, in his place I would feel so isolated and lonely, all his friends are gone. He is some sort of figurehead leader but it must be a terribly lonely position to be in. The new "companions" follow him but they are not friends as such, they do not live on the ship with him. You do not imagine them sitting around the bridge or the common room talking over old escapades, having a meal and laughing about things they have done like I could imagine the original crew doing. It is sad and lifeless. And I log out to do something more cheerful.

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1) Sadly post 4.0 isn't for long-standing players.

2) It's for people who want to try SWTOR long enough for a month or two's sub, or a few CC sales. Then they become long-standing players. - So see point 1

3) Current endgame is BW's way of encouraging veterans to move on and free up server space.

4) Reinvented early game is BW's way of encouraging veterans to move on and free up server space.

I'm one of 'em. Hope you don't mind my taking the liberty of adding #4.
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I would disagree that his actions support his words - all they prove is that he needs the PC for some reason, not that he respects them or values them in their own right.

 

The fact that he gave up his Empire(s), seems to have abandoned his plan for consuming life in the galaxy, and even let himself give up his physical life all for sharing the mental space of the Smuggler communicates to me that he really does have an obsession with said Smuggler.

 

I mean.... what could he possibly *need* the Smuggler specifically for that he couldn't accomplish with all his seemingly infinite power in the force, and military and political might? And what goal is worth giving all of that up in order to achieve?

 

Maybe there's an answer.... but I can't think of anything that makes really any sense at all. I guess time will tell if Bioware really does have an awesome master plan for the story.... but until that time, the most likely answer seems to be that the story they've presented us at face value really is the story.

 

The reason he gives behind the lie is even more palatable - the part about matching his will to survive. However we choose to roleplay our characters, their mettle is unquestionable just because they've made it to the part in the story where KotFE takes place. Most of them have done something that no one else could, even if (in the case of Trooper) it was just part of their job, or (like Bounty Hunter) defending their way of life.

 

I'm not going to deny our PC's are very exceptional individuals.... but they're nothing special compared to Revan or Malak... Darth Nihilus, Naga Sadow, Exar Kun or Mandalore the Ultimate. You don't even need to go back that far. What makes the Smuggler so much more impressive than say.... Satele Shan, Chancellor Saresh, or Darth Marr? Our PC's "will to survive" or ability to "leave their mark on the galaxy" (as Valkorion puts it) really isn't anything special in this galaxy of wizards who live for centuries and can destroy whole planets and/or civilizations with their magical powers.

 

While, say, the Smuggler for instance has pulled off some of the greatest feats in the war, their power, achievements, and overall impact on the galaxy pales hugely in comparison to some of the biggest figures in galactic history since Vitiate's been alive.... Not to mention Vitiate himself, who is practically a god at this point. This is why the "merit my full attention" line is so preposterous.... He's been around for centuries, pulling strings from Unknown Space and orchestrating multiple wars on a galactic scale, with heroes and villains of magnitudes much greater than that of SWTOR's smuggler PC, causing likely billions to deaths all while growing his own power to an insane, ridiculous level.

 

Even if its a lie..... its a lie so ridiculous that our PC's should not buy it at all.... and the fact that he just casually mentions that all of his actions have been focused around our PC's for centuries before they were even born, with little further explanation or questioning by our PC's communicates to me that Bioware, and everyone in the world that they created, thinks it is a perfectly plausible idea.

 

I don't think we should be making any assumptions about his motives this far along in the story. It could be as simple as needing a strong, new body and choosing our PCs. It could be as complex as needing to hitch a ride in us as part of a step in some century-spanning, Rube Goldberg-like chain of events that leads to a particular outcome he desires. Is the writing staff at BW talented enough to pull off that last one? I don't know. I've read plenty of authors who were, and I'll give them the benefit of the doubt while I play through the story.

 

Well.... as I've said, it isn't case closed. I'm riding this story out to its conclusion, and I'm not going to make any final judgements until there's something final to judge.

Edited by Swissbob
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Well, the entire galaxy started hunting him after Ziost, and it only got worse when he showed himself by attacking.

 

And Ziost was a resounding victory for him, and afterwords he escaped without anyone knowing where the heck he went. It doesn't matter if everyone's looking for him if they are completely incapable of finding him, as they are shown to be time and time again as he escapes and hides not only himself but whole Empires from the entirety of the galaxy for decades to centuries at a time.

 

 

I don't think he's scared, but I think he certainly knows that everybody except those in Zakuul are after him. Also, maybe he's thinking ahead -- what happens when people in Zakuul find out what a monster he is? Won't the pitchforks come out? Maybe this is his escape. At the very least, I think it's his way to test his children and perhaps escape them also.

 

What is the immortal, invincible, godlike Valkorion have to worry about some civil unrest? Why does he need to escape from civilians with conventional weaponry when he's been shown time and time again to be unkillable, as his force spirit can evade throughout the galaxy, and even inhabit more than one place at a time?

 

And as it stands, very few people know that he is in your character's mind. It isn't common knowledge.

 

Well, you're right, but a few people is more then zero people. And if he took of by himself into the galaxy, zero people would know where he is, as he's effectively been able to do in the past.

 

My smuggler rose from a loser that lost his ship on some backwater planet, to the head of the galactic underworld and then when on to fight Revan and the Emperor himself. This is no mere movers of goods.

 

My agent fought a member of the dark council to a standstill, stopped a conspiracy that was 1000,s of years in the making, fought the Dread Lords, Revan, the Emperor and walked away victorious every time. This is no mere spy, this is someone that despite no ability to use the force, has been used by the force to lead the battle.

 

You're right, our PC's are exceptional individuals, and my "illegal goods transporter" phrase was an understatement, of course.

 

But the Smuggler is really nothing special at all when compared to really any of the major actors in galactic history in the 1,000 + years Vitiate has been alive. Compared to Revan, Malak, Traya, Nihilus, Naga Sadow, Marka Ragnos, Sion, Mandalore the Ultimate, Exar Kun or Ulic Qel-Droma, Freedon Nadd, Meetra Surik, and especially Vitiate/Valkorion himself, the Smuggler is pretty insignificant and unimpressive.... or at MOST (and this is being extremely flattering to the Smuggler) roughly equivalent.

 

While being an exceptional individual, the smuggler doesn't really make sense as "meriting the full attention" of the godlike Valkorion for "all his centuries".... during which force users of extreme power and impact have made their mark on the galaxy.... much more so than the Smuggler. And even if.... even if the Smuggler was the best of the bunch, he is still pales hugely in comparison to the immortal, invincible, galaxy conquering god, Vitiate himself.... which raises the question: Why is Valuation so obsessed with someone who is so obviously his inferior?

Edited by Swissbob
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(stuff)

 

I do have to thank you for the reading material, and yes, I'm being completely serious. It's rare to read such well-thought out and well-presented theories on a game forum.

 

The bottom line is, though, we just don't know for sure. It could go one way or another. I'm really hoping for a surprise since I have very much enjoyed Mr. Karpyshyn's work in the past.

 

I'm not so sure. I couldn't believe that when I started getting emails from Alliance people that I *never* tried to CONTACT MY SPOUSE AFTER FIVE YEARS of being away! I mean really the beginning (of the expansion) makes sense when you physically cannot contact your former crew/spouse, but when you can finally (in story, mind you) see a mailbox, I am making a 60 second detour to send Elara an email saying "Hey, I was a POW, but I'm alive (and escaped). Will explain after I deal with the Eternal Empire. Love ya."

 

HORRID writing that makes our "romances" feel completely inconsequential. If your character felt anything at all they'd contact them, or at least *try*. This needs to be addressed before they write any more chapters so that maybe some things could be salvaged.

 

Note that I am liking the story a lot, other than what I ranted about above.

 

So I was thinking about this just now in the shower. (Thinking about Torian in the shower, yes, I am so busted. *ahem* ARGH, and is that ever a terrible pun.) Anyhow, I haven't taken my Bounty Hunter through yet, so if they mention what the Mandalorians are currently up to, please feel free to disregard this theory.

 

I think the Mandalorians have just backed up to somewhere safe and secret to properly get ready for this war. Because war is srs bsns for Mandos. If that's the case, then it makes sense why we haven't heard from Torian or Akaavi, and anyone else that is tagging along with them.

 

Before I played my Mercenary gal I hated Mandalorians. Why? Because of the horrible cliche that is Ceta Farr -- big, manly, arrogant and snotty. Ugh, I slap her every time I see her now, no matter what character I'm on.

 

But now I'm a huge fan and I really hope that they will play a big part in the story to come.

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