My friends and guildies will keep me in this game longer than any gear grind or "solo" content.

 

People still aren't getting it. People (Atleast for me) aren't saying "No change/system fine," what they are saying is "Split Brackets are a bad idea." Matchmaking on a criteria with safeguards to keep queue's low is the better idea, especially if it can be coupled with the player base rising to the level of the competition, rather than asking it to be lowered to them.

 

This. A thousand times this. I hate getting rolled by much better geared/skilled players as much as the next guy. Note that I'll at least admit that what I'm getting killed by are better skilled/geared players. Happens when I'm in a premade and when I solo queue. My response is to get better gear and get better skilled.

 

I have a simple question, how many people would quit playing regular warzones if the queues were split, and the only one that popped regularly was the solo queue warzones?

 

I get the feeling the vast majority would simply suck it up, solo queue themselves and play in that bracket.

 

On the contrary, how many people that normally premade in the current system, refuse to solo queue when their friends are not online because they know its the only way to actually remain competitive? I'd say a majority. If all of those players are instead solo queueing because everyone is doing it, wouldn't that in turn improve queue times rather than hurt them?

 

I mean, I get that people want to play with their friends, but I think improving queue times and the competitiveness of warzones is more important when you want a thriving PvP community.

 

I premade, and I solo queue. I'd rather feel free to solo queue any time of the day and sacrifice the ability to premade, if it meant I knew the games would be 50/50 as far as how good each team is, and the pop times would be almost instant.

 

I'm gonna say it right now. If I couldn't play with my friends/guild mates whenever I logged on and was looking for PVP then I'd simply stop PVPing. I am not, by nature, a PVP player. I play MMOs to meet people, and achieve a common objective with them. The nature of this kind of gameplay is what I find attractive about MMOs, and my aversion to PVP otherwise is why I DON'T play FPSers online competitively. If they forced me to solo queue, an experience which I find perpetually frustrating when I do it just to grind out a daily, I would most likely stop PVPing altogether and stick to the PVE side of the game.

 

Like Doom said, my guild is solely responsible for my still having a subscription to this game at all. If not for them I'd have quit awhile ago. But we don't always have 8 people on, or if we do it's not the right composition. The great thing about normal warzones is you don't actually have to care that much about composition when forming premades in guild. Ask who wants to PVP, group up and go. All the fun of teaming up with none of the stress of making sure you're 100% competitive like what happens with ranked.

Edited November 22, 2012 by ArchangelLBC

So many of you have so many friends that you so want to play with at a higher level of competition and yet the ranked WZs are deserted. Truly mind boggling wouldn't you say?

 

We don't need split queues just don't let any pre-made face only PuGs in an warzone and I'm happy as a peach. Pre-made + PuGs vs Pre-made + PuGs is fine in my book. It will suck a bit at the beginning when ****** Pre-mades will face good Pre-mades but they'll soon just disband and solo queue hoping for a good pre-made to carry them. This way good 4 men pre-mades will have their competition in normal WZs, we get rid of the leeches and the games will be more balanced and fun with decent queue timers.

Oh my dear god I've been invalidated. Shoot!!! And you nugget want ranked solo queue huh? Wouldn't you, dude with only 3 friends, like that? Tell me, when you are writing this down, do you do it with a straight face? Damn, it must be so easy to be you.... Well good night for now! Catch u lot tomm 0/.

I have been clamoring for cross server pvp ques since launch, and i am mystified as to why they do not have them right now, i am assuming that they dont know how to do it.

 

Hint to BW, if the player base = your paying customers feel it is needed esp for pvp then hire someone who can make it happen. this is supposed to be a moderm MMO, not having a cross server que in place is hilarious at best and it certainly wont draw in those subs from the F2P you instilled.

Oh my dear god I've been invalidated. Shoot!!! And you nugget want ranked solo queue huh? Wouldn't you, dude with only 3 friends, like that? Tell me, when you are writing this down, do you do it with a straight face? Damn, it must be so easy to be you.... Well good night for now! Catch u lot tomm 0/.

 

Oh my bad. thought you were trying to have a discussion. So silly of me. Continue with your idiotic trolling then.

Here are some personal statistics over the past 3 days from solo pvp'ing on the Republic side of the Progenitor server. I used Recruit gear only at the start to see the incentive a new player will have. To see if he will keep playing pvp:

 

Played 38 matches over the course of 3 days:

 

Won: 4. Lost: 34.

Number of times queued against a premade (3 or 4 people from the same guild): 23

Number of times queued with a premade (3 or 4 people from the same guild): 2

Number of times lost against the Republic: 0

Number of times lost against the Empire: 34

Number of times won against the Republic: 4

Number of times won against the Empire: 0

Number of times grouped without a healer: 17

Number of times faced an enemy group without a healer: 1

Number of times faced an exceptional enemy group (4 or more players with War Hero title or above): 10

Number of times queued with an exceptional group (4 or more players with War Hero or above): 1

Number of times queued with an inadequate group (4 or more players in Recruit): 10

Number of deaths: stopped counting.

 

As you can see from this limited survery, queuing solo meant losing the overwhelming majority of the games (a ratio of 4-34), almost all of them against the Empire. I've been in 4 true PuGvsPuG matches and incidentally every single one of them was Rep vs Rep we won.

 

23 times ouf of 38 (all in Rep vs Imp) we faced three or more players from the same guild. On my team this happened twice but we lost those matches as well due to the fact that:

 

10 times out of 38 we had 4 or more people (!!!) in Recruit gear (myself included of course), whereas 10 out of 38 times we faced enemy groups where 4 or more people were sporting War Hero, Conqueror, Warlord etc. titles.

 

This was further compounded by the fact that 17 (!) out of 38 times our team did not have a healer. Only once was I in a match where I could not find an enemy healer to mark.

 

I did not exactly count how many times our group was utterly annihilated (0-6 huttball, 100-0% novare etc.) but there were a lot of instances where we could not hold a single node in Civil War. Coordination was ok, we always discussed tactics, 9 out of 10 times people called out inc but the general lack of healers AND the overall gear advantage enjoyed by the enemies AND the fact that 23 matches had 3 or 4 people from the same guild made sure that no amount of coordination would make a difference.

 

Look at the numbers and tell me why a new lvl50 would bother to play pvp again after this?

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

Facing premades more than half the time (23/38) was part of the reason we kept losing but not the only part. The drastic lack of healers wasn't helping either. And the fact that in almost every 3rd match or so we had 4 people in Recruit.

 

I haven't tried pvp as an Imperial yet. I'm curious to do some statistics when I hit 50 to see if it's easier to level up somewhat as an Imperial.

 

I've seen many opinions by many people (some say it's fine, the majority call for changes) but I think there is something very wrong with pvp if solo queuing means autoloss.

 

If I were taking note of all those stats during a PVP match I would probably HAVE those stats as well. When I PVP I only get to see the name of the player who killed me when I'm dead coz I'm too busy fighting. May be you would do better if you focused on killing the enemy or doing objectives instead of writing down titles and guild names and what not.

Edited November 23, 2012 by BossDuane

While I am sure it varies for everyone, it does indeed seem solo players get dumped into teams with other solo players. The system, for convenience reasons definitely puts groups together. I have zero stats to back this up but it's definitely how it feels every day.

I DO NOT notice pugs being grp'd with pugs while grps are with grps. I'm almost certain it's first come, first served.

I DO NOT notice pugs being grp'd with pugs while grps are with grps. I'm almost certain it's first come, first served.

 

They can't even implement a "healer/tank/damage" system for the PvP queue like they do for the FP queue. You REALLY think they even try to separate premades and PUGS at all? It's almost certainly first come, first serve, and that also means that the majority of your matches will be against the same opponents. You all get done at the same time and go right back in the queue at the same time. Queue mashes you together again, repeat whatever happened in the previous warzone. Talk about mind numbing.

They can't even implement a "healer/tank/damage" system for the PvP queue like they do for the FP queue. You REALLY think they even try to separate premades and PUGS at all? It's almost certainly first come, first serve, and that also means that the majority of your matches will be against the same opponents. You all get done at the same time and go right back in the queue at the same time. Queue mashes you together again, repeat whatever happened in the previous warzone. Talk about mind numbing.

 

please say you are joking about matching heal/tank/dps for wz... srlsy want that?

and about first come first serve, you can always wait 5 minutes (take weee weee, brush your teeth) and not be with same group you lost last time.

EA you need to address this issue as it is becoming worse and worse. Monetizing the cartel was a smart business move and it wasn't done too badly, but if you don't fix this issue, i'm afraid you will have far fewer players using your cartel market . Reduce the number of stuns and come up with a matchmaking system, anything. What is so difficult to understand? The players have spoken, except for the one guy who has made 50 posts defending the status quo.

Indeed we have well over a thousand responses, thirty thousand views and over 110 pages. That makes this the single largest thread ever ignored by the developers! Awesome job Bioware but if you continue to ignore us, then at least don't lie to us that you have a team that reads forum posts.

 

If you think this thread will just disappear, then you clearly have 0 idea of just how bad the state of PvP is. The thread will stay here but people from your game will keep disappearing instead! So yeah, keep bleeding yourselves to death, lose all the subs and destroy the most expensive game ever developed with:

 

A. Developer negligence (you are unaware of the issues with the current state of PvP)

B. Developer ignorance (you are aware of the issues with the current state of PvP but you just flat out don't care)

C. Developer incompetence (you are both aware of and care about the current state of PvP but cannot do anything about it for whatever reason)

D. All of the above?

 

Keep alienating your player base, we all know how beneficial it is for any MMO game! Keep up the good work!

, then at least don't lie to us that you have a team that reads forum posts.

 

I'm pretty sure the community team hav read the thread and told the devs about the perils of PUGS. We are just not getting an answer.

i think there should be a queue for solo-ers, and a queue for premades, for unranked 50 and 10-49, so 4 different queues.

Looks like Bioware' developers themselves love play in premade on regular WZ and roflstomp pugs...

I DO NOT notice pugs being grp'd with pugs while grps are with grps. I'm almost certain it's first come, first served.

 

All we know is one of the devs (I forget who) *said* many months ago back near launch that the que system did try to match groups against groups. But with 2-3 wz's running even in prime time, that leaves basically no room for even this basest kind of matchmaking to work without cross server....

 

Epic failure that x-server STILL isnt implemented, and that's really what this thread and the hundred others like it are really about. BW is STRONG in the excuses.

Edited November 23, 2012 by Polebreaker

please say you are joking about matching heal/tank/dps for wz... srlsy want that?

and about first come first serve, you can always wait 5 minutes (take weee weee, brush your teeth) and not be with same group you lost last time.

 

grp finder systems like that get abused in every mmo (ppl pretend to be tank/heals if they're a class that can tank/heal). however, I don't see how it's a bad thing to ask ppl to select a role and give preference to which team they play on based on those roles. but again, you're asking them to do a lot more work on the modification of code, and they probably aren't capable of doing this successfully. especially when you try to balance roles with ppl in grps. that sounds worse than trying to implement x-server to me -- at least as far as variables and restrictions/checks.

sigh....

 

pls answer this:

 

i pay as much as any "solo queue plox" guy....my wz exp is ruined by playing with randoms..since 90% of them are clueless mindless keyboard turning cliker zergrs.Why should i be obligated to queue with them?(yes because the queue times , as it is, if they get separated for premades they will get much worse)

 

i even get frustrated with the 4 randoms that join my premade side sometimes..

most of these solo queue people are unskilled keyboard turning clikers completely unaware of whats happening around them, tunnel visioning dpsrs..slow "without mouse over macros" healers ,..that dont use focus frame...focus interrupts...focus ccs....cant look at the game and understand when a quick swap is about to happen...and the list goes on...and on...and on, overall terrible pvpers that for some reason look at the final table and damage/medals will = skill.....this si the kind of people that never strives in rated pvp exactly for these reasons, and they fail to understand that the best way to improve is actualy with playing with others, learnign with others, creating synergie with your team!ASK any pro sponsored pvp player(not me..or anyone that plays swtor for the matter) what do they think, everyone will tell you about the value of teaming up to improve yourself.

 

 

i pay as much as you , i dont want to wait longer for queues..and randoms ruion my wz exp, why are these reasons less valid then the "i want solo queue" ones?

 

 

ps-if you loose, msot of the time is a matter of coordination and skill, its not about the gear gap(since bm can be obtained in 3/4 days and augmented is pretty close to wh)....also WH gear will cost wz coms in a couple weeks eliminating most of the gear gap.

 

 

(sorry for my english)

Edited November 23, 2012 by filipesantana

i pay as much as you , i dont want to wait longer for queues..and randoms ruion my wz exp, why are these reasons less valid then the "i want solo queue" ones?

 

you're making as much an argument for solo queues as against them. in fact, most of your post is about how bad it is to queue with solos, so..really...more of what you say supports solo queues. make of that what you will.

Before f2p it wasn't problem. Now?

 

I find my self in WZ with people around 15k in recruit and half BM gear. Against 4 or mroe warlords.

 

I've seen 2 of those burn through 6 of my teammates in less then minute. What do you expect of us to do in this kind of fight? Yes, I'll wait for guildmates and quee with 3 of them tonight (healer, van dps and random dps). And you know what will happen? Same thing just on opposite side, seen that before, didn't like it, that is no fun pvp.

those useless backstabbing pigs in blankets, dev team need to abolish premade groups for pvp all together yes theirs going to be god knows how many l2p or stop qqing posts to this one but who gives a flying S*** its the guilds like lord of the drinks that spoil pvp for my server but then again its also the retarded imperials i get stuck with and yes i know theirs gonna be stop pugging go with guildies blah blah blah that would be nice if i was i was in a guild that liked pvp after the 10-49 braket

sigh....

 

pls answer this:

 

i pay as much as any "solo queue plox" guy....my wz exp is ruined by playing with randoms..since 90% of them are clueless mindless keyboard turning cliker zergrs.Why should i be obligated to queue with them?(yes because the queue times , as it is, if they get separated for premades they will get much worse)

i even get frustrated with the 4 randoms that join my premade side sometimes..

most of these solo queue people are unskilled keyboard turning clikers completely unaware of whats happening around them, tunnel visioning dpsrs..slow "without mouse over macros" healers ,..that dont use focus frame...focus interrupts...focus ccs....cant look at the game and understand when a quick swap is about to happen...and the list goes on...and on...and on, overall terrible pvpers that for some reason look at the final table and damage/medals will = skill.....this si the kind of people that never strives in rated pvp exactly for these reasons, and they fail to understand that the best way to improve is actualy with playing with others, learnign with others, creating synergie with your team!ASK any pro sponsored pvp player(not me..or anyone that plays swtor for the matter) what do they think, everyone will tell you about the value of teaming up to improve yourself.

 

 

i pay as much as you , i dont want to wait longer for queues..and randoms ruion my wz exp, why are these reasons less valid then the "i want solo queue" ones?

 

 

ps-if you loose, msot of the time is a matter of coordination and skill, its not about the gear gap(since bm can be obtained in 3/4 days and augmented is pretty close to wh)....also WH gear will cost wz coms in a couple weeks eliminating most of the gear gap.

 

 

(sorry for my english)

 

yes plz BW listen to this guy. He admits there are tons more solo quers and you need to make solo que separate from grp que or youll lose more subs and your game.....

I think 1.6 might be bw's way of wimping out on this topic while trying to help it. By that I mean there are several major advantages that premades have and 1.6 will help with some of these.

 

1. Communication obv. - this patch does nothing but the average premade doesn't use this to its fullest extent anyway.

 

2. Composition - in swtor this is a big deal because beyond tank + healer combo we also have protection and we have the tankasin which is great against lower geared pugs. This patch won't do much here except it will help in some ways. Geared tankasins are so good in pugs mainly due to higher tier gear. With same gear they are good 1v1 but they need better gear than the other team to be great pvp dmg dealers since pvp dmg is about burst (they can still top the chart without better gear but that means they were throwing out a lot of trash dmg). Also, tank/op/sorc combos in matches like huttball will be less invincible to the average pug since they were relying on their composition + gear.

 

3. Gear - The premades that you see frequently are usually pretty hardcore. They play more than others and have better gear. Also, the horrible mess that is ranked allowed many of these mediocre or worse players great gear by wintrading (should be banned imo). Playing since release some of the major premaders that people think are good I remember them in same gear while in a pug and they were horrible lol. Its rare that you see hardcore premades in crap gear. 1.6 will help this in a major way! These premades will be more geared still and still have a decent advantage (a few % on an entire team is still pretty large but I think it is def reasonable and def beatable).

 

So gear is one of the major problems with premades and composition is greatly improved by gear. So 1.6 will help a lot in both of these respects. Premades will still have a major advantage but 1.6 should still help a lot.

 

Now matchmaking is still what we need but bw wimped out of that.

 

One interesting thing though is 1.6 might help the split q idea. I think we will lose some bad premades due to swtor becoming gw2 type excuses but with a lower barrier to entry of being a geared premade more people might want to form them. Idk if this will be the case in a large way but i'm sure at least a few more premades will form.

There's a reason why World of Warcraft and other highly populated MMO's are overwhelmingly successful and we're not. An abundant of other superfluous reasons aside that do not pertain to the topic, they sure as hell do not force the horribly dysfunctional and terribly unbearable Premade Vs Pug atrocity on players and they fully support Cross Realm function. Arguing that this game is new, is no excuse, the company should have been wise enough to foresee this problem coming into the MMO industry, this is nothing short of a blind oversight and ignorance.

 

With the new influx of new and returning players, a queue for lesser geared/skilled and coordinated players looking for a casual experience is crucial. It's not a question of laziness, or being social or not, it's a matter of attracting and holding onto new players with the game experience. All it takes is 1-2 terribly one sided, unbearable games to repel players away from the said content (PvP) or the game entirely, permanently. Be realistic here, do you honestly think the vast majority of the playing population's first thoughts are going to be, "Oh gee, I just hit level 50 and had an absolutely terrible experience in PvP in this game, I want to do that again, I'll spend countless hours looking for geared players naive or generous enough to take me into their premade group and from now on constantly dance around other people's schedules just to avoid an unbearable game experience?" No, the answer is no, the average, casual, player (which constitute the vast majority of the playerbase) will simply quit, it is far easier and much less time restrictive and consuming. There are far too many games out in the market to settle for something so archaic, annoying and not to mention preposterously dysfunctional.

 

I play premades all the time, heII I just came out of one, we roflstomped 3 games in a row. I also suffer through solo play from time to time because I enjoy PvP an no friends or guild mates are around. I wouldn't so much say I have a bias one way or the other as I would say I grasp the overall concept of what makes MMOs attractive, fun and successful; a frustrating, relatively unavoidable or unreasonably time consuming problem for the average casual player is not part of that equation. Clearly PvP and arguably the game itself are slowly dying, this is one of the top 5 reasons why.

Edited November 23, 2012 by LeonHawkeye

Exactly Leon. It is not a question of laziness of puggers are the mediocres of premades even but one of money. If it stays the way it is most casuals do say F you to pvp.