This is a fantastic guide for newbs. I'll be pointing newbs I meet to this thread.

I've voted it 5 stars. I hope it gets stickied.

Nice compromise re. Guard instructions, as well.

THANK YOU DARTH THC!

Can't these guys be cc'ed on story mode? Not sure about this.

Can we agree that LOS pulls are a tool to be used when the party isn't geared and experienced? Even then I would argue that the tank can easily hold aggro on all four baddies right where they've spawned. Makes AoE nuking a lot easier and the fight much faster.

Can we agree that LOS pulls are a tool to be used when the party isn't geared and experienced? Even then I would argue that the tank can easily hold aggro on all four baddies right where they've spawned. Makes AoE nuking a lot easier and the fight much faster.

I think LOS pulling might be a topic for a more advanced guide--this is just trying to train people not to suck, not trying to teach them advanced tactics like LOS pulling.

I find it useful at times, but I also find it a pain having to explain it to newbs who will nod and smile when I ask them to sit tight and don't move from this spot, then follow me into the room as I pull. So I guess maybe it might be a nice addition to this guide, but I'm afraid of adding too much complexity, as the beauty of this guide is its simplicity.

BTW, STICKY THIS!

I get what you're saying in general and I can pretty well agree with this early on in FPs up until around the point where you get an AoE taunt and on. From that point on, I definitely do not believe the healer should be the one guarded because by then you have a lot more of your AoE aggro generating skills and the healer shouldn't be drawing any regardless of the DPS screwing up since you should ideally have some form of control on them from your AoE sources and AoE taunting (and one would also hope by now the healer realized the talent in their tree for reducing the threat gained from healing is vital). Like PlasmaJohn said, if there is no one else in the threat table of course the healer is going to pull and a Guard is not going to do anything to stop it, you need to be more mobile or the DPS need to adjust their tunnel vision.

1st of all. I dont support guarding healers for aggro generating purposes. I believe that you should be able to hold aggro without guarding someone. I use guarding mainly for the damagereduction. If you lose aggro on a dps I would investigate why you lose aggro and change the rotation accordingly.

I mean more the situations where you have multiple ranged mobs spread around 30 meters from each other. A perfect example would be directive 7. At the cyborgmini boss you get loads of adds coming from all sides. You have only 1 pull which you should use to pull in the silver droid. This example is not entirely correct since in this case the dps needs to nuke the elite cyborg first and I could changetaunt it to hold aggro. But it demonstrates well a situation where I can't break off the maintargets to gain aggro of all surrounding mobs. They are spread to far to gain AoE aggro.

In these cases I rather use guard on the healer, not to reduce their aggro

Can we agree that LOS pulls are a tool to be used when the party isn't geared and experienced? Even then I would argue that the tank can easily hold aggro on all four baddies right where they've spawned. Makes AoE nuking a lot easier and the fight much faster.

They cannot be CC'd in story mode, either.

The reason LOS works so well on these guys is the Sent/Mara has a knock-back. If he knocks you back into the corner you've used for LOS, well, everyone stays right there for more AOE. If you're fighting them up on their stage, then he and possibly the Sage/Sorc follow whomever was knocked back, limiting the benefit of AOE.

I don't consider LOS to be an advanced tactic. It seems defeatist to me and, when I'm being especially mean, I tend to cal lit „frenchway“. LOS is basically a „we'll just squat here and hope no one attacks us“ and reminds me so much of the Maginot line „tactics“. I'm more into aggressive and swiftly executed offensive moves than cowering in fear of getting hit by a stray blaster bolt.

There's nothing wrong with LOS. This isn't a machismo contest.

1st of all. I dont support guarding healers for aggro generating purposes. I believe that you should be able to hold aggro without guarding someone. I use guarding mainly for the damagereduction. If you lose aggro on a dps I would investigate why you lose aggro and change the rotation accordingly.

 

I mean more the situations where you have multiple ranged mobs spread around 30 meters from each other. A perfect example would be directive 7. At the cyborgmini boss you get loads of adds coming from all sides. You have only 1 pull which you should use to pull in the silver droid. This example is not entirely correct since in this case the dps needs to nuke the elite cyborg first and I could changetaunt it to hold aggro. But it demonstrates well a situation where I can't break off the maintargets to gain aggro of all surrounding mobs. They are spread to far to gain AoE aggro.

 

In these cases I rather use guard on the healer, not to reduce their aggro

It's a lot easier to hold aggro when you have all your class's aggro-holding tools. That is to say, at high level.

This guide is written for leveling flash points. In flash points like Hammer Station and Athiss and Mandalorian Raiders, it's really hard for a tank to always hold aggro because he doesn't have all the right skills yet. Guarding the Healer is a necessity if the Damage Dealers are doing stupid stuff like focusing on the toughest enemy first. Like they always do.

That said, I re-wrote the bit on Guard again.

Some comments:Stacks are only on Hardmode. You just get a debuff on storymode while you are targeted with the laser.

 

Can't these guys be cc'ed on story mode? Not sure about this.

Another tactics is that after three channels you hide behind a pillar to prevent yourself from being pulled.

PD-44 is skippable, but not General Edikar. They changed that in a patch.

Thanks. Updated the above.

On the tunneler, that laser is a lot of incoming damage, even in Story Mode. I've tanked it a lot in Story Mode recently. But maybe the stacks are irrelevant and the Healer should make sure to keep the heals rolling while the laser is on?

They cannot be CC'd in story mode, either.

 

The reason LOS works so well on these guys is the Sent/Mara has a knock-back. If he knocks you back into the corner you've used for LOS, well, everyone stays right there for more AOE. If you're fighting them up on their stage, then he and possibly the Sage/Sorc follow whomever was knocked back, limiting the benefit of AOE.

 

There's nothing wrong with LOS. This isn't a machismo contest.

Please try to troll better. No reason to insult me with such bad trolling attempts.

As for LOS on those guys, the reason it works is because people are too lazy to use their brains. I don't know if you've noticed but their spawn area is surrounded from three sides. If the group positions themselves on either left or right side of the mobs, they will not get thrown far and the mobs will still be in aoe range.

Thank you.

I think there was actualy short time when you could cc those guys in Mando raiders, and that was after launch, not sure and I dont want to argue about this, anyway some time after launch no one botherd with LOS and we just nuked them where they were, except for sentinel/mara guy. Now in HM some people hide behind corner, some dont, I dont really care when I am there with my gunslinger, hunker down and kiss my lower parts, when I am tnaking I am the one who choose where we nuke them and what I do? I jump on mara and trying to keep him in line and it usualy works fine. no hugh aggro issues.

And ofc there is this small problem with LOS when mobs actually shoots through the wall >_< how annoying sadly I dont remember where it was I know it was in some flashpoint. Might be fixed now, dont know. Oh, I know now, it was Black Talon, the droid boss, few months after launch, when you hide in that small room where you had some adds, droid just shot through the wall, very annoiyng.

Slafko I know how much you hate slow tanks you would love that scoundrel-tank guy I met in Eseless the other day

A wonderful idea!

Thanks for putting the time into this guide. I know I'll be directing the newer players I come across over here to give it a glance over.

This post is specifically for leveling flash points. Strong DD's are the exception rather than the rule. Typically the healer draws more aggro than damage dealers. I did note that a strong DD is a better candidate if one is present and edited to include the shift toward good DD's as we level.

 

Reasonable?

No. No, no. No.

BAD TANKS result in healers getting aggro.

No. No, no. No.

BAD TANKS result in healers getting aggro.

This might be somewhat true in most encounters in max level and hard mode flash points. It might also be somewhat true in that other game with slightly different tanking mechanics. But it's patently false in leveling flash points in this game, which is the subject of this thread.

Also, reference the update, which is the most correct statement that can probably be made:

You should guard whomever draws the most aggro.

This might be somewhat true in most encounters in max level and hard mode flash points. It might also be somewhat true in that other game with slightly different tanking mechanics. But it's patently false in leveling flash points in this game, which is the subject of this thread.

 

Also, reference the update, which is the most correct statement that can probably be made:

 

No, you don't seem to understand. The only way for a healer to have aggro on everything is for a tank to idly ignore any mobs. I don't care what level you or the content are, if you POKE everything with your weapon once, you'll generate enough threat to keep it away from a healer.

No, you don't seem to understand. The only way for a healer to have aggro on everything is for a tank to idly ignore any mobs. I don't care what level you or the content are, if you POKE everything with your weapon once, you'll generate enough threat to keep it away from a healer.

You're hilarious. Do you even tank? I mean in leveling flash points?

You're hilarious. Do you even tank? I mean in leveling flash points?

I had a hunch when you argued about who to guard and why, but this proves it, you really don't understand how to tank or how threat works. The way threat works DOES NOT change from level 1 to 55. Try to keep arguing if you like, but I can tell you're a bad tank. Keep on guarding those healers and wondering why you can't seem to hold threat when you open a fight with an AoE taunt.

I had a hunch when you argued about who to guard and why, but this proves it, you really don't understand how to tank or how threat works. The way threat works DOES NOT change from level 1 to 55. Try to keep arguing if you like, but I can tell you're a bad tank. Keep on guarding those healers and wondering why you can't seem to hold threat when you open a fight with an AoE taunt.

I never suggested the way threat works changes from 1-55.

I suggested that the way parties work changes from 1-55. Clearly you have not tanked a low to mid level flash point in a very long time, if ever.

But if you're an expert on the topic of tanking leveling flash points, we welcome your well thought out, informative dissertation. Please. The floor is yours.

He actually tanks for my guild as well as DPS. And so do I.

Healers generate minimal threat. DPS generate moderate threat. Tanks generate high threat. This is basically the order of threat generation. Every healer has threat reducing talents and gets them pretty early in-game. It's also usually accompanied by a healing bonus or reduced knock-back while casting a healing ability. Which is another major reason why a tank should not guard a healer in these circumstances.

A reason to guard a healer: when you're already in combat (and mostly with boss fights) where the mechanics will spawn adds who will go directly for the healer. Then again, in flashpoints there aren't any fights (maybe the dog in Athiss but dps can easily handle them). So basically there's no real reason to guard a healer. And if you're struggling with threat, it gives you more reason to guard a DPS. There's a reason why the Guard tool tip states that the threat generated by the person guarded is transferred to the tank. Give this a shot, you'll find that guarding DPS will benefit your threat on your target. EVEN early in-game.

And opening with taunts is simply stupid. Taunt generates minimal threat but will multiply your current threat. Opening with a taunt means you're multiplying 0 by what, 0.14 I believe? 0 * anything = always 0. Some DPS has to shoot/swing his saber and you have lost threat already.

This is pretty much what Falver is trying to say.

Well done to the OP for taking the time to write such an informative post. I've actually posted a link on our guild forums and direct all members to read it. I've played the game since launch and have been shocked recently to see so much arrogance and bullheadedness by some players in fp's. Marauders leaping onto a boss then whine because they die, healers who dps more than they heal then make the excuse that they forgot, and tanks who just can't keep aggro then ragequit the fp because the group wiped.

As for guard ... I've rarely been guarded as a healer. Some boss fights yes, but that is the tank's choice. As a dps I've often been guarded. I am usually the one bouncing around to save the healer should they get aggro.

Such an awesome thread, and it needs to be stickied.

DARTH THC: would you mind re-posting this in the New Player forum? It really should be stickied over there anyway.

MODS: please sticky this guide, either here or there. I think we can all agree that any newbies who want to do FPs should read this.

 

Seems extremely unlikely to be used by "newbs". Anyone who cares enough to be on the forums and read this post already cares enough to know how to Flash Point well and therefore doesn't need it.

I need it, so thanks a ton! In leveling my sith toons, I rarely did any FPs, but i'm doing them now and tanking/healing and having never seen these at all, tanking has been an adventure (my only FP tanking was Raiders... wow, I wanted to cry and quit after the second boss when afterwards everyone said I did a great job - didn't know rotham or the dogs had no agro table).

Sending this link to my home email so I can keep handy.

No, you don't seem to understand. The only way for a healer to have aggro on everything is for a tank to idly ignore any mobs. I don't care what level you or the content are, if you POKE everything with your weapon once, you'll generate enough threat to keep it away from a healer.

That's a lot of GCDs to hit everything sometimes.

No, you don't seem to understand. The only way for a healer to have aggro on everything is for a tank to idly ignore any mobs. I don't care what level you or the content are, if you POKE everything with your weapon once, you'll generate enough threat to keep it away from a healer.

Depends on how long the fight lasts. If the dps are slow to burn down things and ignore kill order, this might not be true. However, losing the aggro to a healer is still hard if you pay attention to the enemies. You only need to throw a couple of more attacks on that mob, and it'll leave the healer alone.