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Scum & Villainy (NiM) 8-Man Progression Tracking


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We had the same issue. It came down to the someone screaming "the next person to even mention the purple circle is getting removed from the raid" We spent an entire night trying different things with it. Just to see an overload heal at the right time knock back one of the adds.

 

we had multiple attempts at the last giant styrak phase, where add teleported instantly to the boss from 15M+ dulfy had the videos... all of them besides one... included a purple reticle in his way (telerports him, / jump over it) dulfy also had videos of it that we analyzed... thats why our video has them all stacked in the middle... Also our dps was so high pushed extremely fast made up for the lack of knockbacks in our group :( lol.

Edited by Carlenux
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Here's Suckafish's Styrak Kill Video (Assassin Tank PoV).

 

 

Enjoy :)

 

wow lol got to love Overriedes / entrench and AoE knockbacks, makes it so much easier lol.... you will probably have to adjust that giant phase strategy for your usual group composition, our sorc wasnt even lightning for root >.< lol, so we had sniper, rest were tanks/heals lol

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wow lol got to love Overriedes / entrench and AoE knockbacks, makes it so much easier lol.... you will probably have to adjust that giant phase strategy for your usual group composition, our sorc wasnt even lightning for root >.< lol, so we had sniper, rest were tanks/heals lol

 

Yeah we're definitely going to have to adjust strat for alternative group compostiions, for the progression race we just figured bring in all the ideal knockback/stun ACs and try to get it done lol.

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I love how calmly I say undying rage marauders could've sworn I yelled that ****.

 

 

One day I'll force myself to become decent at lighting for fights like these

 

EDIT: Also wished we killed 1st dragon before three spin phases we didn't in video :rolleyes:

Edited by JDotter
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Congratulations to everyone who has cleared nightmare styrak (and the whole instance).

It's nice to also see Bioware starting to up the difficulty of nightmare raid content.

 

Aye for the most part i think S&V is a step in the right direction, most of the fights are about discipline and executing a strategy not pushing silly numbers. I'm not sure if it's just an artifact of having TFB for so long the tactics are second nature but most fights in there felt like "we have to push harder on the DPS/healing numbers" rather than "we really need to change up our positioning/movement" .

While i think both forms of difficulty have their place in NiM raids it's nice to actually wipe because of mechanical slip ups for once and it really adds to the dungeons longevity (Explosive conflict NiM is still a bloody pain if you dont focus)!

Even if the next raid will only be story+hardmode It'll be nice to see how they use the lessons learned in this NiM tier to design it!

Edited by umbak
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so here's a question and don't take this the wrong way but i've recently learned you can derp your way through the first boss by hiding behind a rock, and avoiding all the mechanics on the 1st boss of SnV. so am sure some people are using this exploit cause if people are, I guarantee for the future of this progression will require stream videos. It's bad enough the content is fairly easy, but to have people exploit there way through cause they can't handle a challenge is ridiculous. I don't know how longs its been there but am reporting the bug and the game is over for whoever is using it. If you want to stay in the competition I suggest you don't use it
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so here's a question and don't take this the wrong way but i've recently learned you can derp your way through the first boss by hiding behind a rock, and avoiding all the mechanics on the 1st boss of SnV. so am sure some people are using this exploit cause if people are, I guarantee for the future of this progression will require stream videos. It's bad enough the content is fairly easy, but to have people exploit there way through cause they can't handle a challenge is ridiculous. I don't know how longs its been there but am reporting the bug and the game is over for whoever is using it. If you want to stay in the competition I suggest you don't use it

 

 

Haven't heard of this sounds real lame.

 

On the subject of exploits/bug/glitches where are people at with snipers using the one ability on thrasher to make the rocket launcher dude easier or assassins doing assassin mechanic stuff (TFB TWH) and stuff like that? Or on DG classes avoiding intended damage/etc.

 

I feel like all the stuff I listed is lame but its mostly a class-class thing.

Edited by JDotter
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I am by no means requiring obviously for this run but will be a thought for the future if people fell they can just exploit fights. My thought is no one has here, and honestly just found out about such a thing tonight. It's a friendly competition, with the spirit of one. It's lame that people think they can get away with it. Just a heads up is all. Other then that SuckaFish Congratulates all guilds in what they have done far, and to those who do not have a clear better luck this up coming week
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I totally agree with your point, gamebreaking mechanics should not be abused. I just dont think enforcing stream is the correct way to go. Either way im not too worried, guilds who needs to cheese their way past bosses, will never beat the real challenges anyways.
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And exactly how do you decide what is an exploit and what is a clever use of game mechanics & class abilities? Where do you draw the line? Here are some examples.

 

1) Using snipers/assassins on DG to avoid damage from Lightning Field/1 shot kill from Doom.

 

2) Killing the Cartel Warlords by killing Vilus Garr and Sunder at the same time, basically skipping 1/4 of the fight.

 

3) Using a high sniper/merc team composition on Styrak to make the manifestations easier.

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And exactly how do you decide what is an exploit and what is a clever use of game mechanics & class abilities? Where do you draw the line? Here are some examples.

 

1) Using snipers/assassins on DG to avoid damage from Lightning Field/1 shot kill from Doom.

 

2) Killing the Cartel Warlords by killing Vilus Garr and Sunder at the same time, basically skipping 1/4 of the fight.

 

3) Using a high sniper/merc team composition on Styrak to make the manifestations easier.

 

All it takes is a little common sense to see where that line is. It doesn't have to be drawn IMO. Those three examples you gave aren't exploits, and I don't think anyone considers them to be. Using a certain class comp in order to make a fight easier is just smart, and is a staple of MMO raiding. There is nothing expoitative about that, but when a guild basically renders a a fight's mechanics null by using some weird unintended positioning, hack, etc., I think most agree that is an exploit. Either way the issue lies with Bioware. Stuff like this shouldn't exist in the first place and they need to fix it before it goes live or at the bare minimum at least very shortly after it is discovered.

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All it takes is a little common sense to see where that line is. It doesn't have to be drawn IMO. Those three examples you gave aren't exploits, and I don't think anyone considers them to be. Using a certain class comp in order to make a fight easier is just smart, and is a staple of MMO raiding. There is nothing expoitative about that, but when a guild basically renders a a fight's mechanics null by using some weird unintended positioning, hack, etc., I think most agree that is an exploit. Either way the issue lies with Bioware. Stuff like this shouldn't exist in the first place and they need to fix it before it goes live or at the bare minimum at least very shortly after it is discovered.

 

Sorry, but I have to chime in here:

 

1) Colonel Vorgath: You kill the front two turrets and leave the back ones (in earlier difficulties you could CC them) up while stacking your raid as far away as possible. This is done to prevent more turrets from spawning and to avoid their damage. Fight mechanics rendered null by using some unintended positioning. This was a commonly accepted strategy.

 

2) Zorn and Toth: I will not go in to details, but there was a way to completely break ALL mechanics and HM and NiM. This method was used. Did anyone QQ about it?

 

3) EC Kephess: The use of the "Sweet Spot" and other areas around the room (namely the doors and behind the Walker) that the barrage did not hit. The majority of players utilized these areas and it was accepted.

 

4) EV Council: Using each members "free" hit to help a team mate out to kill their boss or having one team member kill two. This is commonly accepted, but definitely not what was intended for the fight.

 

5) Trash Skipping: Yeah, trash is there to kill and not skip. Not huge, but just adds to the point.

 

6) EV Turrets: I believe it was intended to have to deal with both turrets, however stacking far to the left or right of them will yield the opposite null and void. This was done in the early days and is not considered an exploit. However, it is not intended.

 

7) Fabricator NiM: Each Jet removed did something different to the boss. People discovered that you did not need the far left one (which removed damage stacks) on the boss. I think it is safe to assume that those stacks were meant to be removed. In the end, the accepted strategy is to stack the boss on the right one and not move him.

 

8) Writhing Horror: The Shadow Tanks ability to prevent the adds from spawning for the puddle. Not widely used, but not addressed by anyone. It isn't intended. It is probably a bug. There is no way to check for it in kill shots (minus combat logs).

 

9) Dread Guards: I am going to put stacking the raid with slingers to avoid the damage. Most accept stacking the raid with particular class a way to make encounters cheep. However it is accepted. In the case of the dread guards, if you can avoid the pivital mechanic of the lightning field you put you raid in a HUGELY advantageous situation (this includes Sage/Sorcs barrier). The fight mechanics are rendered null while this is commonly accepted strat.

 

10) Thrasher: Since PTS I noticed you could get people up to the Snipers without using Thrasher Knock-Up mechanic. I am positive that this was not intended (They tried to correct this in NiM). But, it is accepted to have classes with a "charge" go up there in SM, HM and NiM without being knocked up there. By doing this, you can keep Thrasher in one position and ignore some of his mechanics. Fight = Broken. Community = No QQ about it.

 

11) Operations Chief: If one member dies fighting one of the groups, another can jump in and finish it off. I am pretty sure that the fight was intended to be specific to the Teams you send to kill each group. Should be restrict people from doing this or will we accept it as ok even though it is probably not intended?

 

 

Iwipe has a point. As a community, how do we decide what is ok and what is not? You could go through the above list and make judgements, but what happens when a new creative strategy is used? Does the community vote on it? If so, does this not give the community power to "officially" strip guilds of kills? This opens the door to the kind of restriction and regulation we deal with in America today. This is not something good.

 

Stuff like this shouldn't exist in the first place and they need to fix it before it goes live or at the bare minimum at least very shortly after it is discovered.

 

I do agree with this 100%. I feel that there is either:

 

A) Not a lot of forethought that goes in to these mechanics.

 

or

 

B) Not enough tools on Bioware's end to make things work correctly.

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All it takes is a little common sense to see where that line is. It doesn't have to be drawn IMO. Those three examples you gave aren't exploits, and I don't think anyone considers them to be. Using a certain class comp in order to make a fight easier is just smart, and is a staple of MMO raiding. There is nothing expoitative about that, but when a guild basically renders a a fight's mechanics null by using some weird unintended positioning, hack, etc., I think most agree that is an exploit. Either way the issue lies with Bioware. Stuff like this shouldn't exist in the first place and they need to fix it before it goes live or at the bare minimum at least very shortly after it is discovered.

 

Maybe 1 and 3 you can argue it is just using the right classes (advantage over other ops teams that do not use these classes). However, the Cartel Warlords strat it is still arguable. You are completely skipping the last phase of the fight, making the enrage irrelevant (you can kite these two for a good 2-3 minutes past enrage without much trouble). This makes what it is a rather hard fight into an easy one as long as you can make it past phase 1 and phase 2.

 

The other question is, what is the difference between using terrain to gain an advantage and using certain class compositions to gain an advantage? The end result is the still the same.

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This is fairly interesting, conversation to hear people chime in on. I never realize so many exploits were in this game and how out raged some are. Tells me a lot about the some of the community of this game. Realize we are not disqualifying anyone nor have said you will provide a stream. I would like people to pay attention to that fact. There is no perfect way of doing anything we should all know that. And I realize there are a lot of different ways to do fights and am always happy to see how creative people are.

 

So would we say that, what ever the sniper trick is on Thrasher is comparable to say popping a Satele holotrainer to gain access to all your heroic moments equivalent? That's a question. Is the double kill on Warlords the same as placing a boss to avoid all mechanics of the fight the same? Am just asking the question.

 

This is to simply ask the question now, because hypothetically am pretty sure that if DiLiH or my guild found a place to put Strylak (and obviously we didn't both guilds have kill videos up that you can watch) where we wouldn't have to deal with any mechanics,and just do the dps race. People would be quite outraged not only at Bioware for their failure once again to test anything properly, and us for doing it.

 

In the end although it's a member of my guild that does the tracking, it's up to him to make decisions like that, and is why he invites the community when new content is about to come out. Take my word he rarely ever sides with me on anything, cause if he did, skippers would of been DQ'd during TFB and they weren't. A lot of this is more for discussion, for the future and what the community wants to be like. I understand there is no black and white answers to this. But I think there is a complete difference to Warlords then there is for Dash. Obviously some people completely disagree with me

Edited by ancksunamur
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