Thank god there is a topic for this I was going to create one and call it.. Why does Bioware hate Jolee Bindo? Because that is my chosen path. I am some where in the middle because I've taken the choices that I wanted rather than always going for darkside/lightside ++. I've basically ignored the reward effects and played through the way I felt best described my own desired personal journey through the swtor universe.

 

+1 to the OP

 

If gear is going to be restricted based on alignment then at least include a neutral alignment option. Please and thank you. It doesn't have to be anything voice/story just fix the itemization for us neutral players.

 

Because Jolee was wrong, and you shouldn't be rewarded for indecision.

Because Jolee was wrong, and you shouldn't be rewarded for indecision.

 

You are wrong and shouldn't be rewarded for bad behavior and bad posts.

 

It has nothing to do with Indecision. It has everything to do with a mature and grown up view of the force. Only the two idiotic sides "light and dark" are trying to manipulate the rest of the force users. Only the neutral can see both sides and benefit from both and find.. gasp.. BALANCE. something the jedi's claim to seek but fail because instead of balance they bring polar "light" vs siths' polar "dark" which ultimately leads to war, suffering and the near extinction of both orders. Us neutral force users just keep on shufflin.

Edited January 6, 2012 by Aethyrprime

You are wrong and shouldn't be rewarded for bad behavior and bad posts.

 

It has nothing to do with Indecision. It has everything to do with a mature and grown up view of the force. Only the two idiotic sides "light and dark" are trying to manipulate the rest of the force users. Only the neutral can see both sides and benefit from both and find.. gasp.. BALANCE. something the jedi's claim to seek but fail because instead of balance they bring polar "light" vs siths' polar "dark" which ultimately leads to war, suffering and the near extinction of both orders. Us neutral force users just keep on shufflin.

 

Is that why everything in Jolee's life fell apart, and every single person that tried to repeat this philosophy ended up going ******* insane?

 

I appreciate that you want to come up with a unique and new, unconventional, even hipster idea on the Force, but that's been covered, and it's wrong. Sorry.

 

And yes, neutrality is indecision at its finest.

Not everyone is playing a force sensitive character. I as a trooper, couldn't give a damn about the force, or your jedi/sith religion respectively.

 

Smugglers are even a better example. We live by own rules.

 

So that pretty much concludes this argument you're having.

Edited January 7, 2012 by Wolftrot

You are wrong and shouldn't be rewarded for bad behavior and bad posts.

 

It has nothing to do with Indecision. It has everything to do with a mature and grown up view of the force. Only the two idiotic sides "light and dark" are trying to manipulate the rest of the force users. Only the neutral can see both sides and benefit from both and find.. gasp.. BALANCE. something the jedi's claim to seek but fail because instead of balance they bring polar "light" vs siths' polar "dark" which ultimately leads to war, suffering and the near extinction of both orders. Us neutral force users just keep on shufflin.

 

The 'Light Side' isn't some sort of burning bright light, standing in polar opposite. It's calm, it's clarity, it's seeing everything objectively. Likewise, the Dark Side is imbalance, emotional confusion, and all manner of other stuff cluttering up your chi. You're looking at the Force with some sort of yin/yang dualism, but ironically you're actually inviting imbalance and discord into your character's life.

 

As for smugglers and troopers, hey; everyone's got energies and paths inside 'em. It's up to you if you want to clutter those up with bad vibes.

Edited January 7, 2012 by smartalectwo

What kind of conceited bs is that? I play as my toon sees fit in accordance to his own belief system. Don't group us all up.

 

I see no reason why I should suffer for immersing myself in the world they've given us. Smugglers/Troopers archetypes don't mesh very well with the current reward system we have for dark/light side.

Edited January 7, 2012 by Wolftrot

Well the way I see it the DS/LS points should be notches on your belt not deffinitions of your character. If i've done enough evil things to be darkside rank 1 and enough light side things to be light rank 1 then why not be both. Just get rid of the slider and problem solved.

Easy fix, continously run Flashpoints and choose light side or dark side in group communications.

 

It's really not that hard >.> I got Dark II from just running Black Talon multiple times.

 

It's really cosmetic but at the same time these things should also be important; that's why they're implemented.

 

When it comes to being level 50, I'm sure that by that time you should be some awesome Dark Sith Lord (because really, how many caring Sith are there) or some Jedi who follows the light. While I agree that I'm not a maniac that simply chooses Dark or Light all the time, understand that it's there as a gate. Those who choose will simply have a longer time obtaining alignment gear and vice versa.

 

There shouldn't be any straight shots to gear (as there should be many paths and personally this is another path) and I like it like that. Plus it makes you pay attention to your actions so I think Bioware's doing fine.

 

Really, don't complain about this, it's fine.

 

 

Shouldn't have to do this just to bypass a serious flaw in the game.

The most simple solution for me would be to just remove the light/dark restrictions off the gear. I don't know why but bioware always seems to like rewarding one dimensional players who always pick the same type of choice over and over. Those of us who actually take an interest in the stories they have made and care about our characters more than always taking the darkside option no matter what it is only get punished. My main is a sith warrior and I've managed to get dark side 5 thanks to diplomacy and repeating flashpoints since my choices leaned more towards dark than light. However if I pick just ONE lightside option I lose access to my relics and speeder until I can get more dark side points. So that's 104 endurance and the buffs those relics give that get removed from me.

 

We should never be punished for playing our characters with any sort of depth and caring about the decisions we can make.

I can sympathize with how frustrating that would be. I too, like hitting that grey area. There are some sith that just deserve to be sabered across the neck..and so I do it! I haven't really felt its effects though..having diplomacy allows me to play the way I want..yet it doesn't hurt my gear choices.

 

So it is an option..not ideal for some I'm sure, but it is there.

I played my Smuggler to lvl 30 on a RP-PvP-server now and my Light/Dark side stats are 2500:1100, or so. Leading to a Light I-rating

I really like the story and how i can react in my quests. I am playing with disabled hints for the sides in the dialogs, so I can't feel pushed in any direction but do like I want to.

 

My problem comes to competitive gaming. When I am competing in PvP, I have a big disadvantage by now (wasn't that big at 10-20) because of the lack of relics. This also affects PvE, but there it is much easier to accept (I like a hard challenge and in PvE I can choose what to fight).

 

I hope that there will be a solution soon, until then I won't compete on any battlegrounds with this character. Thats really bad, because I really love PvP....

 

 

A possible solution would be, like many said before, to make relics with no requisition of Light/Dark side.

 

Please Bioware, fix this ASAP. This is one of the biggest balance problems I noticed so far (Too much jedi loot is my #2... )

...

And yes, neutrality is indecision at its finest.

 

DS/LS decisions are being rated arbitrarily tho.

 

In Black Talon - there are 2 choices that earn alignment (tho there are several actions that probably warrant it).

 

The final choice is to bring a severely damaged man back to your superiors to be tortured until he dies - a fact supported by the dialog leading up to the decision or to kill right there.

 

Yes - the kill option is done with a bit of malice, but it is definately the more merciful choice.

Kill quick = DS.

Retrieve for torture = LS.

 

As an Imperial Agent RPing Black Talon will almost always net me neutral gain - I choose one DS and one LS choice. Its not indecision - the choices were made according to the storyline. Its a conscious choice not to game the system, but to play the game.

Well.. This thread certainly grew in my absence... XD

 

Since then we've had this article about grey gear and plans to make alignment rewards more powerful: http://www.pcgamer.com/2012/01/11/swtors-alignment-system-will-offer-exclusive-loot-for-neutral-players/

 

Hopefully we'll be seeing grey gear in Patch 1.3 at the latest, though it really would be better for patch 1.2

I always chose what felt right for my character disregarding points and ended up Dark II at 50.

 

Now I grind the rest of DS points through flashpoints and Diplomacy to buy the speeder. Actually I just have 145 points to go. After that I probably start making the choices that feel right for the character again.

Edited January 28, 2012 by Hxxr

 

***. Just read this thread as I was wondering about this. I play a Smuggler. A morally ambiguous person to start with. Who got paid an insane amount of money to decide this was a good idea?

Is that why everything in Jolee's life fell apart, and every single person that tried to repeat this philosophy ended up going ******* insane?

 

Proof for anything you said? The Star Wars universe got covered by a lot of writers, and I'd be surprised to see some kind of obligation on everyone's behalf to demonstrate that being a Grey Jedi 'doesn't work' unless canon is extremely strict in this for some reason (which I doubt).

 

I could make the argument that the LS mainstream Jedi philosophy doesn't work either since they're often in the habit of unintentionally replenishing the Sith's ranks by giving in to their emotions after a lifetime of abstinence. Which would actually make more sense, realistically.

they still havn't made neutral stuff?

it was missing in beta too...

I think the gear should be tied to level and overall alignment points gained (not the side your on).

 

That being said I think there should be a few more cosmetics put in for the actual levels of alignment points. Sith are physically affected by embracing more and more of the dark side. I think Jedi should gain a blue or light white aura as they progress higher into the light side. Sorcs could become haunched, or have their overall height reduced.

 

There are several things they could do, Im just gonna give it time.

I'm playing a very honorable Sith Juggernaut - he is big on the "peace through order" concept the Empire promotes. He feels it is dishonorable, and borderline treasonous, to take actions that undermine the Empire's goals as a whole. As Darth Malgus says in the Athiss post-dialogue "There's no room for Sith, dead or alive, who place themselves above the Empire." That is a sentiment that my character agrees with.

 

Part of the "peace through order" is that so long as the lower classes are doing their duties they should be protected and not hunted, tortured, or just randomly killed for no reason. That would be counterproductive and would only serve to foment discontent and possible rebellion where it wasn't necessary. He doesn't feel a moral obligation to protect them, it is pure machiavellian reasoning.

 

All of this results in the necessity to make light side choices. He couldn't allow the Sith to continue their game of hunting citizens for instance. What I've done to mitigate this impact is default to the dark side choice when it is provided unless it would violate the character's internal code of honor and sense of duty to the Empire. At level 27 he is (barely) Dark II. I don't see an alternative but to "farm" flashpoints such as BT for the extra DS points to offset the story-based choices I make because otherwise I suffer for a lack of gear in a couple key slots.

 

What I would prefer is to see the restrictions on gear changed. Instead of "Requires Dark X" or "Light Y" let's switch it around to "Forbidden to...". Other restrictions are not changed (such as level or class requirements).

 

Dark V -> Forbidden to Light I

Dark IV -> Forbidden to Light II

Dark III -> Forbidden to Light III

Dark II -> Forbidden to Light IV

Dark I -> Forbidden to Light V

 

Light V -> Forbidden to Dark I

Light IV -> Forbidden to Dark II

Light III -> Forbidden to Dark III

Light II -> Forbidden to Dark IV

Light I -> Forbidden to Dark V

 

In this way you don't need to add new gear, you just continue to use the same gear that is already there. Someone who stays very grey gets the advantage of being able to use either side's gear while those that go down the Light or Dark path start getting barred from using the opposite alignment's gear.

I agree, I'd like to roll a neutral character without gear penalties.

There's an empty area in the fleet. You know the spot where the LS/DS vendors are, as well as teh speeders and GTM? There's an empty area, right in the middle of the LS/DS. They may add somethign there, just hope for it.

 

 

But I started out as neutral, but I found myself going towards more ligth side, so I said screw it, I'll go light. I'm up to light 3 atm, but I'm just going to go with whatever feels right to me from now on.

Edited March 2, 2012 by Kikilicious

Is there any way of being evil without being homicidal maniac, who goes on killing rapages every now and then? The only way of being evil as far as I can see it, is just go around and kill everybody even if that hurts your faction(I'm talking about sith here). Sometimes i get light side points for choosing options that will benefit the Empire as oposed to usually killing someone which would grant me the dark side point... Not really sure I get this alligment thing...

You Know there Are often options in conversations that have No Ls or Ds points right?... those ARE the neutral choices.

 

Sometimes they make sense sometimes not so much.

 

When It comes to jedi/sith I think Taking a Straight line path(light or dark) makes perfect sense. Since Most jedi/sith Either Go Dark or Light/Good Or evil, They USUALLY ARE that Black and White... with FEW exceptions In SW lore.

 

For Other classes I Do agree there Should be an alternative to LS/DS Relics, But Those items can be added without making a huge change to the alignment system, Which IMO works, its not perfect but it seems to make sense lore wise, AND since Relics are the ONLY NON-COSMETIC items that are actually effected by it, adding an alternative to them should to work fine.

Is there any way of being evil without being homicidal maniac, who goes on killing rapages every now and then? The only way of being evil as far as I can see it, is just go around and kill everybody even if that hurts your faction(I'm talking about sith here). Sometimes i get light side points for choosing options that will benefit the Empire as oposed to usually killing someone which would grant me the dark side point... Not really sure I get this alligment thing...

 

I read something similar to this over on the Bounty Hunter Forums, but this is what they said:

 

Playing as a Bounty Hunter, your job is to complete a contract. You can choose to kill a bounty, or carbonize them. What you do is inherently evil. However, you can still go by a code of conduct and treat non-bounties with respect and act like a true Mandalorian.

Two of my characters have internal codes of honor they follow and what I decided to do was to pick whether they were light side or dark side and to always pick that alignment choice unless it violates their code of honor.

 

My Juggernaut is Dark Side with an internal code of honor that is centered around promoting order and the stability and prosperity of the Empire. So long as a dark side choice doesn't violate his code of honor, I take it. He's level 30+ now and still DS II (although very solidly so).

 

My Powertech is Light Side with the typical Bounty Hunter's code of "a contract is a contract". He won't double-cross his employers and he will do what is required to complete a contract. So long as a LS choice doesn't involve him violating that code that's what he takes.

 

Honestly though, this is a workaround to the limitations of the current system. I shouldn't have to think "do X unless it breaks the character". It is too metagame IMHO. While it would be great to add a "grey" vendor the far simpler approach would be to change the LS and DS gear from "requires alignment X" to "barred to opposite alignment 5-X" (so dark 2 required becomes barred to light 3). Neutral can wear anything, and the slightly dark or slightly light are limited to light or dark gear for reasons of practicality.