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Perfect teaching moment here kids...

I'm not going to do this, because I don't want to put in the effort. As a result I will be annoying some and purposely replying in a manner that is inefficient. The fact that lionflash addressed it makes him an elitist in my mind, I'm going to call him a jerk and tell him he doesn't know what he is talking about because I feel his request is F^&*ing absurd!

Now when you step away from it, I'm being ridiculous... Look at me taking criticism and I'll make a deal Lion, all of harbinger stops running Hardmode EV and KP and starts doing other ops at a veteran level and I will start replying to multiple people in one post.

when 99.9999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999%

 

Of this game can't do hardmode anything not EV or KP, why is the development team nerfing dps? At this point what are we worried about if people start doing NiM content often? Isn't that where this game needs to go? Or do we just need to sit in our stronghold because the players in this game are so bad you can't do anything with them.

AGREED!!! This is a MAJOR issue right now, has been since 3.0 tbh.

AGREED!!! This is a MAJOR issue right now, has been since 3.0 tbh.

Thank you! I just want to play the game EA and if you're going to drive off all the people I want to play with then make it so the people I don't want to play with can keep up.

Because time has established that most mmo players don't ever get better!

I'm sorry my opinion isn't in line with yours

Your 'opinion' seems to amount to screeching "Your fun is wrong!" at anyone who has the audacity to enjoy different aspects of an entertainment product than you do.

If you enjoy raiding, that's great - this game has some for you. If you aren't enjoying them - either because of the design or because there don't seem to be enough players running the ones you want to play - that's a perfectly legitimate reason to conclude "hey, this game isn't a good fit for what I'm looking for." But all you've been doing is spitting vitriol at people who are getting legitimate enjoyment out of this game and what it's offering.

And you pay 15 a month?

 

why do you not enjoy ops? (serious question so respond seriously)

Because PvE is predictable while PvP is not. That and I've raided in WoW for years, during BC wrath and cataclysm. I've had enough of it. I also don't like to rely on other players and having a schedule. I don't sub all year round, I come and go when it suits me.

Because PvE is predictable while PvP is not.

So the same maps, play styles, and players coming at you with the same class compositions isn't redundant? Coooooooooooooooommmmmmmm'on

That and I've raided in WoW for years, during BC wrath and cataclysm. I've had enough of it. I also don't like to rely on others players and having a schedule.

This is the Dogma that must be broke! You should be able to pug ALL content. I'm not sitting here saying you will one shot stuff but you should be able to approach content on a daily basis. Hate me if you must but this is why you demand more out of your player base and shame them till they become competent!

Sad but true. We have too high of an attrition rate for the games current difficulty.

 

I'm not talking about leveling quests, I'm talking end game Ops. I believe 90% of the players should be able to complete SM Ops, with 10% being carried by 2-3 players. 50% should be able to complete HM Ops with 50% being carried by 4-5 good players. NiM needs to be able to be completed by 15% of the players, with 6-7 good players carrying up to 2 who aren't.

Couldn't agree more, this is the weakest group of players i've ever seen in this game. The fact that storymode is augmented so all you need to do is hit your buttons on the dam keyboard and players can't do that means that they have little interest in knowing what buttons to put on the bar at the most basic of levels...

I have a theory that most players have mounts on the 1 through 9 keys...

So the same maps, play styles, and players coming at you with the same class compositions isn't redundant? Coooooooooooooooommmmmmmm'on

I guess you just don't understand PvP.

This is the Dogma that must be broke! You should be able to pug ALL content. I'm not sitting here saying you will one shot stuff but you should be able to approach content on a daily basis. Hate me if you must but this is why you demand more out of your player base and shame them till they become competent!

I don't really feel like pugging content I'm already not interested in honestly. As a parent of a toddler and doing work on the side, my time is already quite limited. The last thing I want to do when I have time for myself is pug raids with a bunch of randoms which ultimately leads to more frustration. No thanks.

If that's what you enjoy more power to you. I however do not. That ship has sailed a long time ago.

I have a theory that most players have mounts on the 1 through 9 keys...

This is the Dogma that must be broke! You should be able to pug ALL content. I'm not sitting here saying you will one shot stuff but you should be able to approach content on a daily basis. Hate me if you must but this is why you demand more out of your player base and shame them till they become competent!

I guess you just don't understand PvP.

I understand PvP enough to say that this game doesn't offer any decent PvP since it doesn't have open world. I also played dark age of camelot buddy!

I don't really feel like pugging content I'm already not interested in honestly. As a parent of a toddler and doing work on the side, my time is already quite limited. The last thing I want to do when I have time for myself is pug raids with a bunch of randoms which ultimately leads to more frustration. No thanks.

If that's what you enjoy more power to you. I however do not. That ship has sailed a long time ago.

I understand MMOs to know this was your reason, which is fine but sitting there doing unranked or ranked pvp is going to run you into the same issues...

Ultimately, the player base is the problem, and I don't enjoy the fact that lazy, arrogant people are killing this genre of gaming.

I gotta admit, this made me lol out loud irl

I S%^& you not this might be true!

I think most people do this though;

10 APM via (hit an action, walk to get a cup of coffee, hit another action, pet their 25 cats, hit another action)

I understand MMOs to know this was your reason, which is fine but sitting there doing unranked or ranked pvp is going to run you into the same issues...

So far I'm quite enjoying myself with PvP, apart from how they merged PvP gearing with PvE, I have nothing to complain about. Should it be neccesary to bail out on PvP, it'll upset a lot less people than it would in PvE, pug or not.

I'll stick with that.

Ultimately, the player base is the problem, and I don't enjoy the fact that lazy, arrogant people are killing this genre of gaming.

I think you are your own problem. You can't seem to understand that people just don't like what you like. You can stomp your feet and cry about how people aren't playing the game how it's supposed to be played and demand whatever you want, but you're only shooting yourself in the foot. Nobody or very few people will take you seriously and you'll still go nowhere trying to prove your pointless point. Most people here with the exception of a couple or a few agree with you. Shouldn't this ring a bell? Whatever you're trying to achieve here isn't exactly working out.

All SM stuff absolutely. Most HM stuff needs to be somewhat pug'able (2-3 PuGs) and maybe one PuG for NiM. Our playerbase has dwindled so much that the game needs to accommodate new players who haven't progressed the same way that many of us have.

2.0 Harbinger was pugging all of the HMs, it was the best time this game ever had. Not shocking that the expansion released three ops!!!! (SnV, DF, DP, and remember TFB was an active ops during 2.0 with most players still working on completion).

I just keep my mounts on the qwerty part and save the numbers for my emotes...

But I feel the same about raiding. I like to try it sort of like I like traveling to new places. But I've no interest in repeated visits. Plus, I only learn by doing so lets wipe and try that again. I also leave the keyboard for five to ten minutes every thirty minutes. I actually need a pause. Lets face it, lots of us have done this already in different games. Its not going to be any better here. Like most games we've played, raiding require the time devotion, the scheduling and some times getting everyone geared up properly. And after all that work, the rewards are... well, getting to do all that is probably it.

Not saying I'd never raid again just that its not really something I'm planning now. I remember doing that with 40 peaople then 25 and its now what, 16? 8? It seems the games are adjusting for the fact that raiding isn't something that's attractive to most. Shoot, I'd be fine if raiders got their entire gear set when done or close. A chance at a drop that you may or may not need is the norm. Always thought raiders should get proper level rewards even if casuals protest. It a lot of work just to play and not a very good time investment to me. That's not even considering the bosses can be boring and the trash too deadly (don't know about this game, maybe different).

Maybe I'll start raiding again when its Raid 2+

I just keep my mounts on the qwerty part and save the numbers for my emotes...

lol!

I just keep my mounts on the qwerty part and save the numbers for my emotes...

I love it lol

So far I'm quite enjoying myself with PvP, apart from how they merged PvP gearing with PvE, I have nothing to complain about. Should it be neccesary to bail out on PvP, it'll upset a lot less people than it would in PvE, pug or not.

I'll stick with that.

I hear you, but I would think a Ranked team might disagree.

I think you are your own problem. You can't seem to understand that people just don't like what you like. You can stomp your feet and cry about how people aren't playing the game how it's supposed to be played and demand whatever you want, but you're only shooting yourself in the foot. Nobody or very few people will take you seriously and you'll still go nowhere trying to prove your pointless point. Most people here with the exception of a couple or a few agree with you. Shouldn't this ring a bell? Whatever you're trying to achieve here isn't exactly working out.

Listen baby cakes, I'll be just fine when this game is turned off next year, I've seen it happen to about 10 games I've played and it only ever hurt when SWG's lights went out. When this game finally rots into dust I won't bat an eye.

I do however like this game and wish to play it, but like what I'm saying or not here is the gdam truth... WoW is still king and that's because it is actively making FULL MMO content that is highlighted by new and frequent raids. All you people ever say is well we can play what we want, well I can't because this game isn't creating the content anymore and like it or raiding content IS MORE IMPORTANT THAN ANY OTHER CONTENT.

If EA wants to keep on making story content and force me to play other aspects of the game that aren't raiding here is what happens (and im not alone on this)

PvP- I'm playing overwatch or PUBG because that is actually fun and doesn't feel as old as my dead grandmother

GSF- Well I'd rather play Battlefront or WaR Thunder where they execute flying in a manner that isn't horrible

Story- 100 million other games with better story content because the game is designed solely for it!

My point is I can get a better experience with these aspects of the game elsewhere, but you can't get raiding anywhere else but an MMO hence WHY YOU NEED TO FOCUS ON IT FIRST!

I just keep my mounts on the qwerty part and save the numbers for my emotes...

 

But I feel the same about raiding. I like to try it sort of like I like traveling to new places. But I've no interest in repeated visits. Plus, I only learn by doing so lets wipe and try that again. I also leave the keyboard for five to ten minutes every thirty minutes. I actually need a pause. Lets face it, lots of us have done this already in different games. Its not going to be any better here. Like most games we've played, raiding require the time devotion, the scheduling and some times getting everyone geared up properly. And after all that work, the rewards are... well, getting to do all that is probably it.

 

Not saying I'd never raid again just that its not really something I'm planning now. I remember doing that with 40 peaople then 25 and its now what, 16? 8? It seems the games are adjusting for the fact that raiding isn't something that's attractive to most. Shoot, I'd be fine if raiders got their entire gear set when done or close. A chance at a drop that you may or may not need is the norm. Always thought raiders should get proper level rewards even if casuals protest. It a lot of work just to play and not a very good time investment to me. That's not even considering the bosses can be boring and the trash too deadly (don't know about this game, maybe different).

 

Maybe I'll start raiding again when its Raid 2+

It's very interesting for me to see the cycle of gaming in terms of trends. When I started playing MMOs Eq2, dark age of camelot, and SWG sandbox games were all we had basically because they were cheap to develop and limits of the game implements, now it is the fad of all games because people like me tell war stories about how fun games like SWG were.

I would really love to see a hybrid, a true well made hybrid where these games (mmos) no longer do anything instanced BUT RAIDING! It would be nice to get my enjoyment from interacting with the world and I'm sorry folks actually fighting wars and battles... remember when this game launched and we thought we were going to have a faction fight and plot... well games use to do that. you use to have consequences for the side you picked and it would effect the world (slightly but more than this *********** game).

Ultimately MMOs no longer feel organic, and until they get that feeling back this genre is dead in the water. The other part, and something star wars has, is we have to give a S^&* about the world we occupy. SWG was an amazing game solely because everyone cared about the planets, heroes, and classes they played with... this game doesn't have that: i don't give a S&*( about these worlds, ships, etc...

I'm rambling... enjoy or don't.

I understand PvP enough to say that this game doesn't offer any decent PvP since it doesn't have open world. I also played dark age of camelot buddy!

"It is perfectly fine for me to not care about Warzones, but if you don't care about Operations then you are a terrible, terrible person." Makes prefect sense.

Hows the game doing?

One last note about numbers: it's commonly asked how we balance feedback against data and metrics, so this is a great place to use as an example. Numerically speaking, KOTFE and KOTET were our most successful expansions by a very significant margin. We didn't change anything in the story based on numbers (the numbers would've said to keep doing exactly what we were doing)

I hear you, but I would think a Ranked team might disagree.

Call me when a ranked match takes a really long time, like lets say...pug raids!!! I've never had the need to bail on ranked PvP, it just isn't as time consuming. It's a different story with a raid that can take anywhere from an hour to more depending on how miserable your group is.

Listen baby cakes,

:rak_03:Cute, I remember that word back from when I played maplestory in my teens.

I'll be just fine when this game is turned off next year, I've seen it happen to about 10 games I've played and it only ever hurt when SWG's lights went out. When this game finally rots into dust I won't bat an eye.

 

I do however like this game and wish to play it, but like what I'm saying or not here is the gdam truth... WoW is still king and that's because it is actively making FULL MMO content that is highlighted by new and frequent raids. All you people ever say is well we can play what we want, well I can't because this game isn't creating the content anymore and like it or raiding content IS MORE IMPORTANT THAN ANY OTHER CONTENT.

A lot of things contribute to why WoW is still the king, it isn't solely raids. It certainly is part of it, just like all the others things are a part of it. Not everyone in WoW raids, not everyone pvp's not everyone does pet battles and the list goes on, but they have a whole ****load to offer people.

If EA wants to keep on making story content and force me to play other aspects of the game that aren't raiding here is what happens (and im not alone on this)

 

PvP- I'm playing overwatch or PUBG because that is actually fun and doesn't feel as old as my dead grandmother

Nice opinion.

GSF- Well I'd rather play Battlefront or WaR Thunder where they execute flying in a manner that isn't horrible

That's awesome, I'm glad you have an alternative you find fun.

Story- 100 million other games with better story content because the game is designed solely for it!

Nice opinion again! Just because Mass Effect, and Dragon age have better story, doesn't mean I can't also enjoy story in a game that isn't quite on par. For me that's swtor.

My point is I can get a better experience with these aspects of the game elsewhere, but you can't get raiding anywhere else but an MMO hence WHY YOU NEED TO FOCUS ON IT FIRST!

The day that mmo's have solely raiding, you certainly would have a point. As long as they have more to offer than that, they are going to keep attracting a variety of crowds. Like the ones you dislike. Even if I did listen to you and left the game, there would be no chance at all for me to become someone who enjoys raiding. I just wouldn't have the option. How does that help anyone or you?

@Eshvara: (F going through all my quotes and yours )

I respect your opinions, I think we both skew on the key element of time. Ultimately we are splitting hairs, but I will say this your issue of AFK can effect pvp just as badly as impact-fully as PvE. It's more about quality of players to the task, which is where I'm frustrated at myself, i can't play the game because people are so trashy and I refuse to PvP because players with minimal skill don't make my mammary glands hard

In terms of raiding only, I never said that, but let's make a fun analogy here...

you're an average looking lady but you have huge ****, and you're going on your first date (didn't say what gender the date is so I don't get SJW'd:mad::mad: ...fine she is dating vette everyone happy!?). If you're average lady with ***** going on first date with vette the twilek you're not wearing a down jacket that hides your best asset, you're wearing something that allows your date to know you have spectacular ****! and you will need to buy the cow vette.

If that made no g'dam sense (whatever you're lame) raiding is the best foot of MMO games, so you have to make sure that element of the game is not neglected and its showcases....

SHOCKER HERE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

WOW DOES THIS!

@Eshvara: (F going through all my quotes and yours )

Yes it's annoying af.

I respect your opinions

I don't respect your opinion, though I do respect your right to have one. I don't know how people can respect opinions that are the complete opposite of what they think it makes no sense! :>

you're an average looking lady but you have huge ****, and you're going on your first date (didn't say what gender the date is so I don't get SJW'd:mad::mad: ...fine she is dating vette everyone happy!?). If you're average lady with ***** going on first date with vette the twilek you're not wearing a down jacket that hides your best asset, you're wearing something that allows your date to know you have spectacular ****! and you will need to buy the cow vette.

This was hilarious, I had a good laugh.

If that made no g'dam sense (whatever you're lame) raiding is the best foot of MMO games, so you have to make sure that element of the game is not neglected and its showcases....

:c rude!!

SHOCKER HERE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

WOW DOES THIS!

I think we're done here.

Last complaint I am going to make today: ....

If only, if only.

snip

First point - numbers

I used the avg. DPS score you find on parsly stats. And since you believe your values to be correct, please have a look at the parsely operation results or the one on StarParse. But more about the 'reliability of parsing numbers' in a minute.

Second point - DPS difference & Fifth point - team constellations

Even if you we use your numbers for a moment, the DPS difference is 1%... that's already lower than the variance due to crit. chances, etc. And since you stated that this is irrelevant and just want to prove me wrong for the sake of ibeing right, emphasizing the difference between 'irrelevantly low' and 'without changing the average DPS', let's have a closer look at your numbers.

If you state that using the top parses as a reference proves to be correct (although the sniper used their rolls and other tricks), you thereby state that you accept parsing results as valid data and that it's ok for you to balance classes on the existing top parses.

Furthermore, BioWare did this class balance to equal out the inherent inbalances for melee and sustained specs. In other words, they try to balance the effective DPS classes have in PvE. If you're now stating that the top parses are correct - you didn't take a 5%~10% DPS loss into account when you calculated the DPS difference - you thereby state that BioWare's concept is wrong.

Beceuse either an Annihilation Marauder loses every 11th attack in PvE (that's what a 10% DPS bonus means) and the effective DPS doesn't match the top parses, OR the whole thing is a fraud, and BioWare is wrong with their concept and you and your team were relying on this inbalance.

Fourth point - none of the classes are broken

In accordance to the previous point, stating that 'none of the classes *were* broken' (so you are referring to the past - i.e. the pre 5.3 state) means that the previous top DPS scores were correct (you used them to compare the DPS difference) and that BioWare incorrectly nerfed both sustained sniper specs. They would now have to have a lower effective DPS than any other class. Otherwise, their pre 5.3 DPS must have been broken.

And if we take both your statement and the 5.4 changes into consideration, stating that Operatives and Marauders *weren't* and *still aren't* broken also results in either BioWare's concept to be wrong and the top parses to be correct, OR these two classes were and still are broken as well.

Seventh point - the typical barking, some results and a relativization of the own statements

Here, I gonna add a few state a questions. Feel free to quote them and answer them directly.

NiM was at a good level pre 5.3 - Did you state this?

Which classes did you have in mind when you made this statement? Sorcerers?

Which team constellation did you had in mind?

And does that sound like: "I had a few suggestions, like reducing the magic 5%" and to you?

Please don't nerf DPS more as it's breaking PvE progression - Did you state that?

What classes or teams did you have in mind when you made this statement? An overall class blalance?

Did this phrase or anything you wrote in this context was referring to "I am not asking them to leave classes in the unbalanced state"?

NiM might be easier than you wish, but we are more than 6 months into an expansion - Did you state that?

Tell me how this matches more a "I am all for class balance and their methodology" than a "the current progress matters"?

So basically, you insult me because of your laziness, incorrectness and inaccuracy.

I am not asking for them to leave classes in the unbalanced state they are now, I am asking them to revert part of the changes and balance them around a higher DPS target. From decent suggestions other people have posted since my post, I have come to realize reducing the HP of some bosses would also be a way to make it work.

See, that's a much better statement. It isn't longer than your initial statement, doesn't put individual interests (i.e. progress) over the 'greater good' and is way more precise about potential changes, that Keith and the rest of the team could easily consider in a strategy meeting. And if you would have wrote something like this, I would have never responded in the first place.