Most people understood my comments... Go look at the first sentence of note 3551 if you need further enlightenment..

By most people, you mean nobody it seems.

I see you still failed to actually re-read. Is it really that hard? I can help if you really need me too.

Oh let me guess, the response will be "Well <insert excuse here> happened so...<Excuse#2>"

If you can't hold a meaningful discussion, just admit it....oh wait you have.

Ugh your post is a mess. I try to answer one thing at a time because you're flying so many false or weak assumptions, it's just better for you to only polish one bowling ball at a time. Nonetheless:

 

 

 

Again, Solos can and will join the casual group queue... *stop*

You can't have it both ways.

If X amount of pugs are going to leave because they get stomped, and that X amount is enough to have a cascading effect of Less PuG's > Longer Queue's > More Groups Quit > Population Decline, then giving those PuG's a different queue option has the exact same effect.

Even if PuG's can join the regular (Not, casual, regular) group and solo queue, the same factor (X) of them will leave for the new Solo-only queue option. There is no possible logical explanation that the amount of PuG's taking the new queue option will be less than the original amount of PuG's willing to quit.

Either X is enough PuG's leaving the group+solo queue (either quit or new option) to cause the game population to decline or it's not. If X is enough to effect population, then the solo-only queue doesn't fix the problem. If X isn't enough to effect population, your reason for a solo-queue is no longer justifiable..

Ps. And don't give me lame excuses. My post had to be posted 3 times to get a response, and you responded to other pieces and other people before that. You could have responded to both pieces at the same time, as I've seen you do before. You were dodging.

Is anyone else on a server where one faction re-rolled to toons on the other faction side so they could ride the premades to easy wins?

On jedi covenant all the good imp guilds that pvp'd are pretty much no more.

A typical non-ranked warzones consists of:

Pub Side: Half Premade from one of the five large pvp guilds, tag alongs usually solos and pair groups. Among those solos are healers trying to get into guilds, as they only take healers at this point.

Imp Side: A lovable collection of various players who may have recently turned 55 and are checking out what pvp is like.

Is anyone else on a server where one faction re-rolled to toons on the other faction side so they could ride the premades to easy wins?

 

On jedi covenant all the good imp guilds that pvp'd are pretty much no more.

 

A typical non-ranked warzones consists of:

 

Pub Side: Half Premade from one of the five large pvp guilds, tag alongs usually solos and pair groups. Among those solos are healers trying to get into guilds, as they only take healers at this point.

 

Imp Side: A lovable collection of various players who may have recently turned 55 and are checking out what pvp is like.

Sure, and then you found out the other side sucks just as much as your side.

Is anyone else on a server where one faction re-rolled to toons on the other faction side so they could ride the premades to easy wins?

 

On jedi covenant all the good imp guilds that pvp'd are pretty much no more.

 

A typical non-ranked warzones consists of:

 

Pub Side: Half Premade from one of the five large pvp guilds, tag alongs usually solos and pair groups. Among those solos are healers trying to get into guilds, as they only take healers at this point.

 

Imp Side: A lovable collection of various players who may have recently turned 55 and are checking out what pvp is like.

The Imp guilds are still there.

They also have guilds on the Pub side, like a lot of Pub guilds have Imp sister guilds, and they switch between sides.

I asked a few of them why they switched over and they said that if one side looked heavy they would switch to their other toons to some what balance out the sides.

So if on one night there appears to be more Imps PvPing they will jump on the Pubs and vice versa.

Wow recently recognized the premade farming pug problem and disabled the addons that were facilitating the large premades for battlegrounds. There still is the Blizzard premade queuing of up to 4, but they have instituted a matchmaking system that attempts to match premades vs premades as much as possible, filling in with solo players. I don't know with how much success.

Of course a premade of 4 has less impact anyways when there are teams of 10 -40 and more varied objectives.

I wouldn't mind seeing a similar matchmaking system in SWTOR.

Last night on red Eclipse, I decided to pvp on my new lvl 55 marauder (who incidently has 2 pvp pieces, partisan main hand and the 410 power relic) and unfortunately for me 3 pvp guilds were queuing multiple 4 man groups in regular warzones

one of the matches I played in was against two separate 4 man premades and ended up as a total loss with none of my team getting a single kill. I managed to do 310k damage as was constantly try to kill one of their healers but died 9 times and was still second in damage on my team.

I can't see how this could have been fun, or a challenge for the premades and if I didn't have 4 other toons that I pvp on (1 of which is an elite warlord and 2 are rank 87) then i would not have had a very positive experience if this had been my first venture into warzones. most of the other matches I played in were similar although not quite so one sided.

There definately needs to be an "OPTION" to join the WZ queue and only face solo players. If it is an "OPTION" then as players get better gear and can compete they can chose to queue against premades or not if they come up against multiple premades on any given night.

match making will not solve the issue and would not be needed if a solo only "OPTION" were implemented.

I don't want to group up and form my own premade, i have been put off this idea after seeing the pvp guilds fielding 4 man teams in regular warzones.

To me its like entering an armoured car into a banger race, yes you are going to win but you have missed the point of the race and no-one is going to respect you for the win.

As much as every bone in my body screams against punishing players that excel (especially to appease player who choose not to) I have to say this is an idea I could live with if it was tweaked.

 

I think basing it off valor isn't the best idea since high valor is not equal to high skill (even if it should be) nor does it guarantee the player is geared. Unless you reset the "diminishing" rewards every time another gear set came out, Players who have played the longest will be crippled in gearing for no justifiably "fair" reason.

 

That being said, based on some other measure of a players (or groups) ranking, I could see a reduce in comms (not credits, that's fine as it is). Not to the extent you mentioned, but as in all game mechanics test play is the key to balancing that. It's not my favorite idea, but it's live able.

 

However:

 

I do want to stress I'd prefer to see work on a matchmaking system.

 

I'd also -strongly- recommend that accessibility and rewards for ranked be buffed in order to entice groups to go the -extra mile- (Yes, a group willingly stepping out of regular to move into ranked is going the extra mile, they have every right to be in regular if they like) rather than punish/reduce something. Premades/Groups aren't doing anything wrong, and no one likes to be punished unjustly. Maybe a ranked only daily/weekly with a heavy credit addition, since credit flow is the main complaint I see about pvp rewards.

I am not convinced by options b or c. I would prefer to see option a.

For me better matchmaking so the team compositions are good, and open comms to all is the answer.

I would suggest that to make it more pug friendly that if there is a premade only on one side then the PUGS get some slight advantage (i.e. 20% extra xp/credits) or something to encourage them to stay,

However the matchmaking system is not going to happen on the current servers, and it seems they dont want to add in live voip? So then it becomes how do we resolve it.

All those pugstompers on here who are happy with the current situation need to stop burying their head in the sand. I see multiple posts from people asking why the Warzones take a while to pop, and when they do it is the same old premades, or a few same individuals. Yet they seem unable to put two and two together and realise that by pugstomping they are the cause of this issue.

Simply telling PUGs to L2P, grow up or go and get teammates isnt working. You can scream all you want that it is not your fault, but if you go around pugfarming all the time all you are doing is driving away new players. Like I have mentioned when I started solo queueing COD I would get beat a lot, but because I wasnt playing objectives gradually my kill rates and skills improved. With voice chat other players could shout at me to get to a specific point to help, or to guard a specific flank.

The way the pugfarmers are going you will end up with what is in effect non-ranked premade warzones.

...

 

match making will not solve the issue and would not be needed if a solo only "OPTION" were implemented.

 

I don't want to group up and form my own premade, i have been put off this idea after seeing the pvp guilds fielding 4 man teams in regular warzones.

 

....

I absolutely agree that these games shouldn't happen, but consider this:

It's perfectly fine to not want to group up, but if you did group up, the outcome would have been the same. The top pvp guilds play a ton, and have become really really good. Voice comms are an advantage, but they are absolutely not needed in such a game. In fact, if we run a guild premade, most of the times we are not on voice at all, and we still win most games against non-pvp guild premades, just because we usually have some 50k games combined among us 4, and have learned a thing or 2 along the way.

If you split queues then yes it will be better in the solo queue, but it will also be very hard on casual groups, which are the majority in this game. I believe that a big part of those groups would soon never form, and instead tehy would be "forced" to solo queue, but for those people who think being social is a significant part of an mmo this would be a pretty big letdown.

I honestly think matchmaking, however crude it is in the beginning, would be the only thing that maximizes the amount of "good" games vs stupid roflstomps. Yes those would still happen, but the goal should be to have as few of them as possible.

I absolutely agree that these games shouldn't happen, but consider this:

 

It's perfectly fine to not want to group up, but if you did group up, the outcome would have been the same. The top pvp guilds play a ton, and have become really really good. Voice comms are an advantage, but they are absolutely not needed in such a game. In fact, if we run a guild premade, most of the times we are not on voice at all, and we still win most games against non-pvp guild premades, just because we usually have some 50k games combined among us 4, and have learned a thing or 2 along the way.

 

If you split queues then yes it will be better in the solo queue, but it will also be very hard on casual groups, which are the majority in this game. I believe that a big part of those groups would soon never form, and instead tehy would be "forced" to solo queue, but for those people who think being social is a significant part of an mmo this would be a pretty big letdown.

 

I honestly think matchmaking, however crude it is in the beginning, would be the only thing that maximizes the amount of "good" games vs stupid roflstomps. Yes those would still happen, but the goal should be to have as few of them as possible.

If casual groups are the majority, I have no idea, then why would it affect them? Surely you would jsut end up with more premade v premade?

Not saying I personally agree with split queues. Peoples experience suggests that there arent lots of premades, i.e. resulting in premade vs premade, but that there are enough to make it so that it is usually premade vs pug?

What you are saying is that you want to queue with your friends, who are good players, and you are happy to stomp over people who aren't teamed up.

I absolutely agree that these games shouldn't happen, but consider this:

 

It's perfectly fine to not want to group up, but if you did group up, the outcome would have been the same. The top pvp guilds play a ton, and have become really really good..

True so what is the answer, matchmaking will not happen because it has the same effect as splitting queues. i.e. it will result in poor queue times.

You have to ask why do top pvp guilds (or premades) take part in roflstomping?

They do it because it is profitable! If it was no longer profitable then they wouldnt do it surely???

Voice comms is a huge advantage, and if as a group you are not using them and stomping people, think how much worse it is when premades do have that advantage. You cannot compare typed chat to voice comms.

QFT - It can't be said enough. If you don't know your teammates and IF this game had built in VOIP, imagine how much better it would be? I don't know JimmyBlueShoes the gunslinger. I don't know his play style, his skills, his strengths or weaknesses. HOWEVER, if he starts talking and I'm listening or vice versa, we've summed up a going part of it right there. NOT EVEN COUNTING the speed of voice over typing or the fact that we can keep fighting instead of typing.

If your team can PVP with no voice, great. If you've been playing together for a while and just "know" where your team is going to be, kudos. That's approx 0% of the PUGs out there.

Swijr

Voice comms is a huge advantage, and if as a group you are not using them and stomping people, think how much worse it is when premades do have that advantage. You cannot compare typed chat to voice comms.

Voice is much faster, this at least.

I absolutely agree that these games shouldn't happen, but consider this:

 

It's perfectly fine to not want to group up, but if you did group up, the outcome would have been the same. The top pvp guilds play a ton, and have become really really good. Voice comms are an advantage, but they are absolutely not needed in such a game. In fact, if we run a guild premade, most of the times we are not on voice at all, and we still win most games against non-pvp guild premades, just because we usually have some 50k games combined among us 4, and have learned a thing or 2 along the way.

 

If you split queues then yes it will be better in the solo queue, but it will also be very hard on casual groups, which are the majority in this game. I believe that a big part of those groups would soon never form, and instead tehy would be "forced" to solo queue, but for those people who think being social is a significant part of an mmo this would be a pretty big letdown.

 

I honestly think matchmaking, however crude it is in the beginning, would be the only thing that maximizes the amount of "good" games vs stupid roflstomps. Yes those would still happen, but the goal should be to have as few of them as possible.

Fair arguments but on some points I have to disagree :

firstly though I am not against match making even though in my original post it sounded like I am, what I should have said is that I personally don't believe that match making "On its own" would solve the issue, my preference would be for a solo queue and better match making for groups.

having played with a group of friends (not a premade as these friends were totally random in class/gear/ and even skill) I know that even in this case there is a considerable advantage to be had over the same number of people who randomly queue and are chucked together.

my preference would be for a number of "toggle buttons" which players can use to choose there level of play, so for example you could have Solo/2 man/4 man/8 man buttons but if you are grouped the only option would be to "tick" boxes that are equal to or greater than the number in your group, so effectively a two man group could only choose to go against other 2 man group or groups of more than 2 man.

The solo player could choose to tick any of the boxes they wanted and so could end up as a filler aginst an 8 man pre-made if they wanted, but the difference is they have this as a choice and could just as easily have chosen to just play in the solo only queue.

I for one have no issue playing against premades, my issue is being stuck playing against premades all night and not having another option apart from logging off and trying again on a different night.

its having the choice that is the important part for me

QFT - It can't be said enough. If you don't know your teammates and IF this game had built in VOIP, imagine how much better it would be? I don't know JimmyBlueShoes the gunslinger. I don't know his play style, his skills, his strengths or weaknesses. HOWEVER, if he starts talking and I'm listening or vice versa, we've summed up a going part of it right there. NOT EVEN COUNTING the speed of voice over typing or the fact that we can keep fighting instead of typing.

The OPS chat is bad enough sometimes to the point that it actually turns me away from PvPing because of the crap that gets said in it. Give some of these players a VOIP to the PuG team mates would be even worse and if you think new PvPers have a bad experience now, just imagine what it would be like having 3, 4, or 7 other people cussing you out because you didn't know that there was a "throw" icon for Huttball.

Not saying that there were times that it would have come in handy, but you have to realize for it to actually work your team mates have to be willing to listen and if they aren't going to come running when you type out "west 2" it is doubtful that they will come running if you call it out over voice. If they do come, they would have come anyway.

If your team can PVP with no voice, great. If you've been playing together for a while and just "know" where your team is going to be, kudos. That's approx 0% of the PUGs out there.

 

Swijr

A team doesn't have to be playing together for awhile to "know" anything. What it takes is situational awareness on the part of those players on the team. I have been part of numerous PuG teams that demonstrated outstanding situational awareness where the players shifted to a new location because they knew it was going to be attacked next.

By most people, you mean nobody it seems.

 

I see you still failed to actually re-read. Is it really that hard? I can help if you really need me too.

 

Oh let me guess, the response will be "Well <insert excuse here> happened so...<Excuse#2>"

 

If you can't hold a meaningful discussion, just admit it....oh wait you have.

Fine I'll bite, what would you like me to spell out for the short bus ridahz?

1) VOIP in game is a horrible idea. I wouldn't join even if I could. I don't know you and I certainly don't want to talk to the random ragers in this game. Back when I played Halo, I literally muted every random in my matches that had a mic on.

2) If your argument hinges on a new player getting stomped in their first match and never coming back then you have no argument. If you go into your first 55 warzone expecting to drop a million damage and win 75% of your games thereafter then you're an idiot. I went into my first ever warzone assuming I'd get stomped and continue to get stomped until I got better. I assumed correctly.

3) As a primarily solo queuer (sometimes duo), I can honestly say that none of the solo queue proponents speak for me or all of those who solo queue. You claim that you are protecting those who solo queue, but you're only trying to protect yourself. I can and have beaten good premades before, I don't need you taking the competition out of my warzones. I realize that many want a hybrid queue with a group queue option, but population is too low to support separate queues. I'm not saying population is low now, I'm saying if you split the population in half, it will be too small in each queue.

Anyway, you already know what we have coming in the future. Can't wait to get pulled down by the awesome players in a solo ranked queue.

Does everyone realize that queing solo, especially on a smaller server, does not mean that the voice chat and organization will stop?

I end up in warzones with other regular allies, friends and guild mates often, and its easy to pick a vent/TS/mumble to jump into for just that match. With solo ranked ques, the most likely solution is a server wide TS where teams can jump channels for each match.

Does everyone realize that queing solo, especially on a smaller server, does not mean that the voice chat and organization will stop?

 

I end up in warzones with other regular allies, friends and guild mates often, and its easy to pick a vent/TS/mumble to jump into for just that match. With solo ranked ques, the most likely solution is a server wide TS where teams can jump channels for each match.

this person has a brain

The OPS chat is bad enough sometimes to the point that it actually turns me away from PvPing because of the crap that gets said in it. Give some of these players a VOIP to the PuG team mates would be even worse and if you think new PvPers have a bad experience now, just imagine what it would be like having 3, 4, or 7 other people cussing you out because you didn't know that there was a "throw" icon for Huttball.

Sounds like your issue is vulgarity, not voip. So dont wear headphones?

Sounds like your issue is vulgarity, not voip. So dont wear headphones?

I think he is saying that the magnitude of rage at a new/inexperienced teammate will be exponentially higher in VOIP as opposed to being typed in chat. Whether their language is or isn't appropriate.

Just have any "queue as group" put into a seperate matchmaking system. That way they will either never get games or only be matched with other pre-mades. Everyone wins.

Your definition of "everyone" is different than what the dictionary has apparently...