Not multiple posts Tdmaha.....

 

 

Again, your words, again completely baseless hyperbole.

 

Provide links to more than one thread that I have authored that is a "quitting thread" or you are once again posting fallacies.

 

BTW Tdmaha, using a few of my words and comments does not make you me. You will never be me. Stop trying. Its just embarrassing.

Again you didn't read my post slowly did you I said I will post the links later when I'm on a PC right now digging through all your Shenangians on my phone isn't going to happen.

Be you lol please going on a VIDEO GAME forum everyday for years just to complain yeah trust me Art pretty sure nobody wants to be you.

So the question is, are they now working as intended?

The Changes were said to be on the Jawa Junk and the addtion of a walker (90% movement speed lol)

From everyones posts it obvious that the chance of getting anything worthwhile are now pretty much Zero.

As someone who enjoys crafting for guildies, I have loved these slot machines and personally thought the big drop in over inflated prices was a good thing.

Prices have now started returning to their previous over inflated price although there are players sitting on tons of Mats who will keep these prices artificially high to give them maximum profit, which is not good for the economy.

A simple 8% return on Jawa Junk would enable the majority of players to have the chance to have purple material to craft for themselves at the cost of 75k, but would be expensive enough that most would not waste their time farming the machines for materials.

I'm personally hoping that there was a mistake, but would love to hear Biowares position on this.

Again you didn't read my post slowly did you I said I will post the links later when I'm on a PC right now digging through all your Shenangians on my phone isn't going to happen.

 

Be you lol please going on a VIDEO GAME forum everyday for years just to complain yeah trust me Art pretty sure nobody wants to be you.

sorry all your quitting threads probably got in the way.

I will wait for you to return home and provide proof of multiple quitting threads that I have authored. If you can do so, I will offer my apologies.

If not, you will offer yours.

Maybe then we can get back on topic, if that is alright with you.

I feel that Bioware has hurt themselves the most by this mistake. They killed any goodwill they had over the past 4 months IMO.

I've read the whole of the 'Intention' post made by Eric several time now.

It clearly states in the first sentence the original intention was to make purple grade 11 mats more available to the community.

They clearly got the drop rates wrong for Jawa mat tokens wrong.

The chance for any Jawa token felt about right.

The fact that it was an equal chance between the green, blue and purple tokens was crazy.

Green and Blue materials are easy to come by in game, either through running crew missions (for both) or going out into the game world and harvesting nodes/ killing silver/gold mobs (only for bioanalysis and scavenging).

On the GTN Green mats of top grade are kept viable as they are the base material of crafting used to get the parts required for making augmentation kits.

Blue mats of top grade are the unwanted redheaded stepchild of the materials world, the supply is saturated as they are an unwanted side product of running crew missions for the purples. Most of the time I see them listed on the GTN the cheapest are only just above what they can be sold to a vendor for.

Purple mats hold a premium because of the scarcity of supply (critical crew missions, conquest guild in top 10, cartel market packs). Basic supply and demand equation will raise the market as high as any one wants to pay for them.

Introducing the Jawa mat tokens on the Contraband slot machine was not a bad idea, just badly implemented.

A key point to the above declaration of Eric's is that there was no mention of the reputation tokens and their desire to open up the Contraband Rep vendors to non-cartel pack using players. This was an obvious intention, maybe it didn't need stating, it is certainly an aspect that has less impact upon the economy. Unless you are one of those traders sat on Masks of Revan and trying to get 10 million credits for them.

Reputation tokens are only valuable as an item while your reputation sits below legend, as soon as that rank is reached they offset the credit sink of the slot machine.

What is interesting is the psychology of the winning animations:

Loss :- Spinner flashes red.

Win, small (chip refund, Jawa mat token) :- Spinner flashes green

Win, large (Reputation token) :- Spinner flashes green, credit signs

Win, Jackpot (Cartel Certificate) :- Spinner flases green, confettis, descending disco ball.

The band of animation the Jawa mat token was placed in was deemed a trivial win, not worthy of a fuss, while that of the reputation token was more worthy. In light of how the machines were used this is obviously the reverse. Again, just to state the obvious, once reputation is maxed the reputation drops are functionally similar to the chip refund win state.

I am hoping that the devs are using this 'nerfed' state of the Slot machine to try and get the material market normalised before reintroducing a more balanced drop rate of jawa junk.

I would keep Jawa mat token drop rates reasonably high, but there needs to be a different rate of return on them.

While I haven't worked through the full maths I would propose a 10 green : 4 blue : 1 purple ratio , that seem fair and in keeping with how easy they are gained from other routes.

Before the nerf I spent just over an hour sat feeding the slot machine tokens, a total outlay of 250,000 credits (and an hour+ of my life I will never get back) for that I was rewarded:

175,500 credits worth of reputation tokens, redeemed against the initial chip cost = 74,500 credit cost to gain

68 Green Jawa mat tokens

65 Blue Jawa mat tokens

57 Purple Jawa mat tokens

and

15 Cartel Market Certificates (I would argue this is too high a drop rate for certificates, I would suggest 1% is a better return)

74,500 credits for the above rewards whether you are going on to sell them on the GTN or use them is your own crafting is obviously ludicrously low.

Using the 10:4:1 ratio and 1% return on Cartel certificates would reward:

126 Green Jawa mat tokens

51 Blue Jawa mat tokens

13 Purple Jawa mat tokens

and

5 Cartel Market Certificates

If we take the new cost of 750 credits per chip it would have cost 375,000 for 500 chips, less the175,500 from reputation token sold back to vendor, for a grand total credit sink of 199,500 credits.

So the drop rate feels fine at that point, I like seeing the winning animations, but the cost/reward ratio still feels on the high side.

Raising the cost of the token to 1,000 credits per spin comes out at 324,500 credit sink for the above.

I'm not sure if that works out competitive with crew missions but if 'feels' a fairer break even.

And bear in mind that all the other ways of earning the Jawa Mat tokens do not require the player to sit idle. After you have sent your crew members off on the missions you can carry on playing the game, when you purchase a cartel pack it is a single GCD to open the pack, aiding your guild in conquest means you will be completing content (unless you do it solely through crafting)

The Slot machine requires you to do nothing else other than feed chips into it. The rewards from wins are not offset by you killing mobs or running flashpoints while your crew members complete the resource gathering for you.

TL;dnr:

Original loss rate was fine.

Original return coin/ reputation token win was fine.

Original Jawa mat win rate was fine but ratio needs to be altered to 10 green : 4 blue : 1 purple (not the 1:1:1 it was)

Original Cartel Cert reward needs lowering from ~3% to 1%

Cost of chips should be raised to 1,000 credits.

I will wait for you to return home and provide proof of multiple quitting threads that I have authored. If you can do so, I will offer my apologies.

 

If not, you will offer yours.

Deal!

Now don't be going through and editing your posts I know which ones said it.

Deal!

 

Now don't be going through and editing your posts I know which ones said it.

Ok, you have a deal.

So I missed your ONE from YESTERDAY! I said you didn't say anything about them YESTERDAY so posting other pointless rants from a week or more ago was rather pointless.

 

I must have missed it because of all your quitting threads.

 

Nice try though....

Again you keep up Art I said yesterday, and like I said I missed your ONE post from yesterday sorry all your quitting threads probably got in the way.

You clearly said multiple quitting threads that I authored....twice.

Threads I have authored Tdmaha....not posts. You said "your quitting threads" and "all your quitting threads"....you need to provide mulitple links to quitting threads that I authored.

I always believed you were incapable of admitting you were wrong....lets see if that assumption is correct....

I swear, at some point this will get back on topic if it kills me...

Original loss rate was fine.

Original return coin/ reputation token win was fine.

Original Jawa mat win rate was fine but ratio needs to be altered to 10 green : 4 blue : 1 purple (not the 1:1:1 it was)

Original Cartel Cert reward needs lowering from ~3% to 1%

Cost of chips should be raised to 1,000 credits.

I would agree on all points EXCEPT I think that the original drop rate for certs should be doubled.

Ok, you have a deal.

 

Threads I have authored Tdmaha....not posts. You said "your multiple threads"....you need to provide mulitple links to quitting threads that I authored.

 

I always believed you were incapable of admitting you were wrong....lets see if that assumption is correct....

Nope it's post you havent authored any quitting "threads" I know of I like how you are squirming now because you know you have posted multiple POST about quitting. It's always been POSTS not threads if the two words got mixed up that was a simple mistake it's early over here.

Nope it's post you havent authored any quitting "threads" I know of I like how you are squirming now because you know you have posted multiple POST about quitting. It's always been POSTS not threads if the two words got mixed up that was a simple mistake it's early over here.

Oh...so now it's POSTS....nice try.

Simple mistake, eh?

That is an excuse. You clearly meant what you wrote...you WROTE IT TWICE. That is not a mistake.

Of course you could always accuse me of going back and editing your posts.......

You said it was a deal. You need to keep your word. You own me an apology, period.

Back on topic...again....This was my favorite option, if they wanted to go the route of adding a "lucky" buff. It is from another thread, but I would prefer something like this.

fail - 35%/24.993%

token - 20%/26%

lucky buff - 10%

green rep - 16.999%/20%

blue rep - 13%/15%

purple rep - 4.5%/5%

green mat - 0.2%/6%

blue mat - 0.15%/2%

purple mat - 0.1%/1%

certificate - 0.05%/4%

mount - 0.002%/0.007%

Now, this setup would provide the current numbers, but would boost the numbers as shown in the second set if you hit a "lucky buff", that would last for a certain period of time. This is the best option IMO...it gives players the incentive to roll for a chance to get better numbers...not as good as they were, but much better than they are.

This reduces the chances from a pure reset to one of the sets above, which averages out a lower amount overall, but nowhere near as bad as it is now....and players have an incentive to roll.

This would be the option I would choose to make everyone happy.

Perhaps I will post the other two suggestions as well.

Oh...so now it's POSTS....nice try.

 

Simple mistake, eh?

 

That is an excuse. You clearly meant what you wrote...you WROTE IT TWICE. That is not a mistake.

 

You own me an apology, period.

Nope you will be owing me an apology when I link your multiple quitting POSTS later today.

Nope you will be owing me an apology when I link your multiple quitting POSTS later today.

That wasn't the deal. You can't remake the deal simply because someone PROVED you wrong.

You disappoint me Tdmaha. You should be a person of your word. You need to honor the deal.

Otherwise you cast yourself in a rather poor light for all to see.

Here is my most recent quitting POST....

I am REALLY not very happy about this at all.

 

The thing I feel most foolish about is defending Bioware over this change. Boy do I feel like an idiot.

 

I think perhaps it might be time to go....

Perhaps it MIGHT be time to go were my words, Verbatim. This is a post I already provided you Tdmaha in one of my responses. And it not my first POST like this...I also indicated I considered leaving the game when they charged for abilities that people already had.

The only THREAD that I have authored with respect to leaving was this one....

Goodbye but not farewell....hopefully

When i had to leave for a short time for health issues. I DO NOT post "I quit" threads.

So there you are...ONE quitting THREAD I authored, more than one POST. You very clearly posted baseless accusations, and now you seem to want to change the deal to avoid having to admit you were wrong in doing so.

Your own words stand in evidence.

So I missed your ONE from YESTERDAY! I said you didn't say anything about them YESTERDAY so posting other pointless rants from a week or more ago was rather pointless.

 

I must have missed it because of all your quitting threads.

 

Nice try though....

Again you keep up Art I said yesterday, and like I said I missed your ONE post from yesterday sorry all your quitting threads probably got in the way.

You were in error. You owe me an apology per our agreement.

On topic....If I were to guess, I would say that Bioware is going to have to reconsider this drastic nerf, or at least have a longer conversation about it with the playerbase.

I don't think we should shoot the messenger here. I think EM is probably no more happy about this than many here.

That wasn't the deal. You can't remake the deal simply because someone PROVED you wrong.

 

You disappoint me Tdmaha. You should be a person of your word. You need to honor the deal.

 

Otherwise you cast yourself in a rather poor light for all to see.

 

Here is my most recent quitting POST....

 

 

 

Verbatim. And it not my first POST like this...I also indicated I considered leaving the game when they charged for abilities that people already had.

 

The only THREAD that I have authored with respect to leaving was this one....

 

Goodbye but not farewell....hopefully

 

So there you are...ONE quitting thread I authored, more than one POST.

And What was my reply to that POST? Oh look another quitting post by Art probably? So if I clled it a post yesterday I ment a post today.

But all in all you have threatened to quit either by post or thresd multiple times. I know for fact there was one during the training cost uproar.

And What was my reply to that POST? Oh look another quitting post by Art probably? So if I clled it a post yesterday I ment a post today.

 

But all in all you have threatened to quit either by post or thresd multiple times. I know for fact there was one during the training cost uproar.

your quitting threads

all your quitting threads

Where is my apology.

To continue....if that is even possible....

Why they would choose such a drastic turn after posting the machine as it was escapes me. It just doesn't make any sense. And they really believed that a super rare drop mount would have made players happy?

I think it would be obvious to anyone that that was not going to cut it.

Hey LordArtemis & tdmaha, just a friendly reminder that this thread right here is about the Contraband Slot machine, not about the two of you and your little days of our lives soap drama crap. How about you both start a thread elsewhere where you both can debate who owes who an apology and let this thread continue without your soap opera?

In other news, I too have removed my slot machines and put in place the meat tree as a reminder of Bioware's continued fails.

So since Bioware nerfed the slots so damn quick, how about we see the same level of action on all the outstanding 3.0 issues since it was released hmm?

Where is my apology.

Pretty sure I said I will post them later today when I get home and YOU will be apologizing to me silly. I've actually said that a few times now. Slow down a bit when reading post, i understand you are a little worked up because of the consequences of your actions yesterday.

Hey LordArtemis & tdmaha, just a friendly reminder that this thread right here is about the Contraband Slot machine, not about the two of you and your little days of our lives soap drama crap. How about you both start a thread elsewhere where you both can debate who owes who an apology and let this thread continue without your soap opera?

Sorry about that. Fair enough. I tried to keep it on topic.

My suggestions for possible fixes.

I would like to create a list of all of the suggested adjustments to the figures, from different folks, and add them to this list. Please list them as formatted. Thanks.

They could change drop rates as follows....

fail - 24.993%

token - 26%

green rep - 20%

blue rep - 15%

purple rep - 5%

green mat - 6%

blue mat - 2%

purple mat - 1%

certificate - 4%

mount - 0.007%

This would drastically reduce high end scraps without nerfing them out of existence, increase the mount chance to the one during the NarShadaa Nightlife event, and push certificates up to the level they should be. It also keeps failure level below 25 percent like it should be.

Now, if they choose to keep scrap levels at current levels (which, IMO would be fine)

fail - 24.993%

token - 30.55%

green rep - 20%

blue rep - 15%

purple rep - 5%

green mat - 0.2%

blue mat - 0.15%

purple mat - 0.1%

certificate - 4%

mount - 0.007%

Now this doubles old cert drop rate, making it the main prize along with rep tokens, and rolls the extra percentage into the token drop. The failure rate remains below 25 percent.

And here is a third option, if they wanted to go the route of adding a "lucky" buff.

fail - 35%/24.993%

token - 20%/26%

lucky buff - 10%

green rep - 16.999%/20%

blue rep - 13%/15%

purple rep - 4.5%/5%

green mat - 0.2%/6%

blue mat - 0.15%/2%

purple mat - 0.1%/1%

certificate - 0.05%/4%

mount - 0.002%/0.007%

Now, this setup would provide the current numbers, but would boost the numbers as shown in the second set if you hit a "lucky buff", that would last for a certain period of time. This is the best option IMO...it gives players the incentive to roll for a chance to get better numbers...not as good as they were, but much better than they are.

This reduces the chances from a pure reset to one of the sets above, which averages out a lower amount overall, but nowhere near as bad as it is now....and players have an incentive to roll.

This would be the option I would choose to make everyone happy.

oh, how I love this slippery slope baloney.

 

starter gear SHOULD be accessible. starter gear SHOULD be easy to get for everyone. starter gear is NOT even in the same ballpark as latest hard mode tier gear.

 

starter gear is what gets you into content that drops those 198 items.

 

jawa junk? buys materials that are available through normal mission running, you don't even need to be max level or ever group or do much of anything really, other then have 2 available companions to send on bountiful and rich missions. it just so happens that those missions are a form of gambling themselves. it doesn't get you raid drops. it doesn't even do crafting for you. all it does is make that BASIC STARTER crafting more accessible.

 

so please.

 

STOP with the whole "might as well give 198 tier gear" in that regard, getting ultimate commendations from lvl 55 content was MUCH more of a freebie. and didn't really cost you anything, seeing as credits are so plentiful in TFB and SnV, even with wipes, you still come out in a black. NOT counting vendoring drops.

186 gear is not "basic starter gear". You don't need artifact quality gear while leveling. You can very easily run level 60 HM fp's in 178 blues and if you have a team that knows the mechanics you can do the same with the Ravagers SM op.

So starter gear is already easily accessible, because any crafter worth his salt has stacks and stacks of the blue prototype mats they've gathered while trying to get those purple mat drops.

The artifact 186 gear makes HM's easier, makes SM Op's easier, and the artifact gear at lower levels makes leveling easier...but it isn't necessary. I've leveled toons using just the drops I've gotten as loot and mission rewards without any difficulty at all.

The Jawa Junk from slots debacle destroyed all of the effort and credits crafters put forth trying to get artifact mats. The prices people throw around to try to justify destroying crafting in this game fail to take into account the companion hours put into trying to get the mats instead of actually crafting items. It fails to take into account the RE system that requires massive amounts of materials at the green and blue level and the hours of crafting and REing to get the one useful Artifact iteration of an implant or ear piece.

Those prices people complain about are for premium gear, not starter gear. A group in full 186 mods, armorings, enhancements, barrels, hilt and augments can easily destroy HM fps and SM ops as long as they know the mechanics. Stop acting like 186 is starter gear.

Hey LordArtemis & tdmaha, just a friendly reminder that this thread right here is about the Contraband Slot machine, not about the two of you and your little days of our lives soap drama crap. How about you both start a thread elsewhere where you both can debate who owes who an apology and let this thread continue without your soap opera?

 

In other news, I too have removed my slot machines and put in place the meat tree as a reminder of Bioware's continued fails.

 

So since Bioware nerfed the slots so damn quick, how about we see the same level of action on all the outstanding 3.0 issues since it was released hmm?

Hey kharThos there are about 20 other threads about the silly slot machine go post on one of them Arts busy here

And I have posted many times in the past that the real issue, IMO, is crew missions. The returns have to be increased, crit rate increased, and times reduced.

The returns are just abysmal IMO.

Where is my apology.

 

You will not be posting anything of the sort.

Hey kharThos asked you to stop with this. I will tell you again I WILL POST YOUR POST LATER! Now go copy/paste something else thst has to do with the topic.

the slots needed love on the JJ payouts but what we got was a slagged item, that doesn't do squat. MANY people bought hypercrates we can't even make peace with the other items (to sell make money back) as the market is currently saturated with them no one want's them outside the Voss mount , so the only things in these packs that had value where the machines, I see why so many are demanding refunds or un-subbing. It definitely leaves a foul taste in my mouth, and it will definitely affect future purchases from me, as a heavy spender I can't bring myself to keep doing so knowing this is how BW rolls. A bait and switch sale, is lowest of the lows and I will not be caught like this again, fool me once......yada yada

The walker mount is even more proof they could care less, it's clearly rushed , poorly thought out and a poor attempt at making right a WAY wrong move on BW's part. A rancor mount or another equally rare, or color crystals, their is lots of stuff they could have done for the money WE ALREADY SPENT

the slots needed love on the JJ payouts but what we got was a slagged item, that doesn't do squat. MANY people bought hypercrates we can't even make peace with the other items (to sell make money back) as the market is currently saturated with them no one want's them outside the Voss mount , so the only things in these packs that had value where the machines, I see why so many are demanding refunds or un-subbing. It definitely leaves a foul taste in my mouth, and it will definitely affect future purchases from me, as a heavy spender I can't bring myself to keep doing so knowing this is how BW rolls. A bait and switch sale, is lowest of the lows and I will not be caught like this again, fool me once......yada yada

I really don't feel like this was a bait and switch...I think that is going a bit too far, indicating that this was somehow on purpose (if that is what you mean).

I think it was more likely this was one bad decision followed by a worse decision to fix it.

Hey kharThos asked you to stop with this. I will tell you again I WILL POST YOUR POST LATER! Now go copy/paste something else thst has to do with the topic.

And when you do, hopefully you will make a special thread for the two of you cause no doubt you will post something, Artemis will dispute it and you will return serve and so on and so on that I think EASILY the two of you could alone have a thread where only you two post in it and it will have more pages then any other thread here!!

So it was a day or two after the slots came out when Eric posted his now infamous post/lies (Depending where you sit on it). So when will we hear from Eric or Tait or any other Bioware clown about the nerf?

I really don't feel like this was a bait and switch...I think that is going a bit too far, indicating that this was somehow on purpose (if that is what you mean).

 

I think it was more likely this was one bad decision followed by a worse decision to fix it.

I would like to hope not as well, but the way they are handling it, and no comments after the rage in the forums after all the QQ tells me this is all going as planned. If I knew for sure it was bait and switch I wouldn't be here posting as I would already be unsubbed. Let's see how BW fixes this again. SO not accusing BW of anything, but the current batch of "evidence" is not in their favor. lol

I would like to hope not as well, but the way they are handling it, and no comments after the rage in the forums after all the QQ tells me this is all going as planned. If I knew for sure it was bait and switch I wouldn't be here posting as I would already be unsubbed. Let's see how BW fixes this again. SO not accusing BW of anything, but the current batch of "evidence" is not in their favor. lol

That bull this would never have been switched if people didn't QQ last week. There are consequences for actions people take and now some are QQ about the consequences of their original QQing and the rest are QQing because well they have nothing better to do but jump on the hater train.