300 million

Yeah, 300 million, 200 million, 100 million, half a billion, everyone seems to have a different number.

Again my friend, the test of MMOs is not vanilla. No company in their right mind would abandon a vanilla game, and you don't need to have a deep understanding of how the industry functions in order to understand why.

MMOs are evolutionary processes. There is a starting point, but no fixed end result. How far we will progress down the "road with no destination" is determined by several factors, population being one of them (obviously), but when you develop an MMO, you don't just bail because vanilla has problems. Once you patch, update and add new content, the old quitters come back.

This is fact.

I can't tell you how similar these forums are to early Warcraft forums. Exact same gripes, same fears, same quits. People flooded out of that game because the servers were out all weekend and there was no PvP whatsoever. No real endgame, no honor... nothing.

Now, these same people are shelling out hundreds of dollars on character re-customization, server transfers, store items (like useless pets), and of course, subscriptions. This was not the case in vanilla, but it is the case now, because the game was "improved" (intelligently) by turning it into a massive playground for gearjunkie raiders.

My point is that no game can die at this stage. The true test of SWTOR won't be until expansion numbero uno.

http://www.marketwatch.com/story/ea-falls-on-broker-concerns-about-star-wars-2012-01-19?siteid=yhoof2\

 

Heres a link to the struggling stocks in january now imagine what it like now considering so many more have unsubed and they are pulling out the give free stuff card hoping people stay.

 

This was said in 2010 by a ex eomployee from EA whom spoke out about how SWTOR would end up.

 

http://www.starwarsmmolevelingguide.com/swtor-a-300-million-failure/

 

How much longer are people going to go into denial that this game is dying, you do realise that free subs count for the sub count technically and companys do it to raise sub figures for estimates for finanical reports technically it not lying even if it is decieving.

First off, BioWare has stated, DE himself specifically has stated that subs haven't changed, just how how many concurrent users are on at any particular time. Please show some undisputable, ironclad, statistical facts that the game is dying? The marketwatch stuff you posted is ancient news. Conjecture isn't going to get you anywhere and EALouse is full of crap because the tripe he spewed has been disputed time and time again. There's nothing wrong with giving a free month to those who they feel they owe it, it's really the right thing to do when a portion of the game is deemed unplayable or free trials or having trial weekends. The economy is so effed up right now that companies got to go to extra lengths to get people to spend what limited entertainment funds they have.

You really dont know what taking place in the actually markets right now withe EA stocks over this game do you? I am telling you this they do not have 1.7 million paying subscribers, most of it is free trials and 30days free offer. It isnt at 1.7 anymore and that figure was in january and even then stock value had droped.

Prove it because DE says otherwise.

If youre still not tired of this game in 10 years or so, you might have something to worry about yes...

but i doubt it will come to that...

look at what games (single player mind you) were made 10 years ago...

Morrowind.

Jedi Knight 2: Jedi Outcast.

Now, whilst those games might still be enjoyable to play, if you still havent finished them (and bought them at release) something is wrong.

And the same will happen for SW:TOR.

It will get canceled. But it will most likely be far far after you have grown tired of the game (in some way, if not to the extent of not wanting to play, then at least to the extent of being able to live without it)

I don't get all the hand-wringing. Who cares whether the game will be around 10 years from now?

If you're having fun, keep playing. Once it's not fun anymore, stop playing.

Welcome to capitalism.

In Mitt Romney's America, games subscribe to you.

First off, BioWare has stated, DE himself specifically has stated that subs haven't changed, just how how many concurrent users are on at any particular time. Please show some undisputable, ironclad, statistical facts that the game is dying? The marketwatch stuff you posted is ancient news. Conjecture isn't going to get you anywhere and EALouse is full of crap because the tripe he spewed has been disputed time and time again. There's nothing wrong with giving a free month to those who they feel they owe it, it's really the right thing to do when a portion of the game is deemed unplayable or free trials or having trial weekends. The economy is so effed up right now that companies got to go to extra lengths to get people to spend what limited entertainment funds they have.

There is alot of us know the real reason why they offered it and we arnt blind. EALouse was correct do you not see the amount of complaints and bad press this game is getting go do a goggle before you defend it for now until you yourself see it for what it is. When other better games are released you will see a bigger drop in subs as well and the truth will reveal itself, companys can only poosyfoot around for so long. With all the bad press this game is getting it wont be attracting many players, word of mouth is a strong arm and with ecomony problems people are more fussy so you only helped the arguement that this game is dying.

There is alot of us know the real reason why they offered it and we arnt blind. EALouse was correct do you not see the amount of complaints and bad press this game is getting go do a goggle before you defend it for now until you yourself see it for what it is. When other better games are released you will see a bigger drop in subs as well and the truth will reveal itself, companys can only poosyfoot around for so long. With all the bad press this game is getting it wont be attracting many players, word of mouth is a strong arm and with ecomony problems people are more fussy so you only helped the arguement that this game is dying.

You're really invested in this idea.

I mean... you're spending all day on the SWTOR forums talking about how SWTOR is dying (in vanilla, lol). Is this because you feel the need to share your disappointment about your personal experience with the game? Are you making a rival MMO and want to drive down subs with your epic doomsday posts?

Simply put, what are you doing here?

There is alot of us know the real reason why they offered it and we arnt blind. EALouse was correct do you not see the amount of complaints and bad press this game is getting go do a goggle before you defend it for now until you yourself see it for what it is. When other better games are released you will see a bigger drop in subs as well and the truth will reveal itself, companys can only poosyfoot around for so long. With all the bad press this game is getting it wont be attracting many players, word of mouth is a strong arm and with ecomony problems people are more fussy so you only helped the arguement that this game is dying.

Again, prove it, baseless conjecture means nothing. BioWare has stated subs haven't changed, prove they have.

Again, prove it, baseless conjecture means nothing. BioWare has stated subs haven't changed, prove they have.

I'm thinking wet blanket troll with far too much time on hand.

Again my friend, the test of MMOs is not vanilla. No company in their right mind would abandon a vanilla game, and you don't need to have a deep understanding of how the industry functions in order to understand why.

Maybe ... none of us can really claim to have a "deep understanding of the industry" (including you, big guy).

... but this is EA. The current Forbes worst company in the US (or was it the world?). The gaming giant that treats their employees like crap and holds the record for "Most F-yous Given To Their Customers" in the last decade.

EA

There is alot of us know the real reason why they offered it and we arnt blind. EALouse was correct do you not see the amount of complaints and bad press this game is getting go do a goggle before you defend it for now until you yourself see it for what it is. When other better games are released you will see a bigger drop in subs as well and the truth will reveal itself, companys can only poosyfoot around for so long. With all the bad press this game is getting it wont be attracting many players, word of mouth is a strong arm and with ecomony problems people are more fussy so you only helped the arguement that this game is dying.

You may be able to sit in mommy's basement have mommy buy every game you want but there are people out there who have to choose, do I buy this game this month or that game this month, these people are who companies need to compete for. I can easily afford SWTOR and the other several mmos I pay for each month unlike my friend who has 2 kids, wife stays home while he works. He has to pick and choose what his gamer funds allow for.

I'm thinking wet blanket troll with far too much time on hand.

Indeed..

Maybe... none of us can really claim to have a "deep understanding of the industry" (including you, big guy).

I disagree. If you've been in mmos for almost 20 years, you probably have some experience dealing with betas, launches, bugs, the development process... perhaps more than someone who just got into the genre and this is their first or second mmo?

Nah, that sounds like bragging, right? I mean, after all, experience counts for nothing. Reading articles and blogs written by developers, examining design feature changes from one game to the next, indulging in each new environment as it came along... totally inapplicable, right?

Face it, everyone here who isn't freaking out about the death of SWTOR, or what state it's in at the moment, or where it could potentially be going, are the ones who have been here, done this, and simply aren't surprised by any of it. They don't have bloated expectations and they don't try to bring others down - they're just having fun.

I get a little more into it than most people because this was my main source of entertainment for a long time, and I paid attention. I'm not lording that over anyone, it's just a fact.

My first MMO was Gemstone II (now known as Gemstone IV), a text-based MMO produced by Simutronics that was launched in April 1988 on GEnie. It's still going strong.

Granted, the development cost is nothing compared to what gets pumped into modern MMOs these days, but nonetheless, games like these that build up dedicated fan bases, hardly ever go away, albeit with some exceptions.

My first MMO was Gemstone II (now known as Gemstone IV), a text-based MMO produced by Simutronics that was launched in April 1988 on GEnie. It's still going strong.

 

Granted, the development cost is nothing compare to what gets pumped into modern MMOs these days, but nonetheless, games like these that build up dedicated fan bases, hardly ever go away, albeit with some exceptions.

See what I mean?

Experience.

Good post.

I disagree. If you've been in mmos for almost 20 years, you probably have some experience dealing with betas, launches, bugs, the development process... perhaps more than someone who just got into the genre and this is their first or second mmo?

 

Nah, that sounds like bragging, right? I mean, after all, experience counts for nothing. Reading articles and blogs written by developers, examining design feature changes from one game to the next, indulging in each new environment as it came along... totally inapplicable, right?

 

Face it, everyone here who isn't freaking out about the death of SWTOR, or what state it's in at the moment, or where it could potentially be going, are the ones who have been here, done this, and simply aren't surprised by any of it. They don't have bloated expectations and they don't try to bring others down - they're just having fun.

 

I get a little more into it than most people because this was my main source of entertainment for a long time, and I paid attention. I'm not lording that over anyone, it's just a fact.

Awesome post!!! VERY well written.

EQ1 is still up and running.

Some of them eventually grow old and die.. some are immortal vampires.

I dont think they will pull the plug so soon even if it declinesmore it will take years to reaaly see it end i belive. But a declining player base will threaten future content and its quality.

Remenber this is probably one the most expensives games ever created if not THE most . And it has a lot of problems(understatement of the year).

Micro-level arguments aside, at a 'macro' level, it's about the journey, not the destination. Better to have loved and lost and all that. Someone in another post said it a bit more elegantly (and I believe there's some Shakespeare in there somewhere):

Living is the time between when you are born and you pass on.

Dying is the time between when you are born and you pass on.

Or something to that effect. It's all about perspective. The idea with any game is to find something fun and play it. I have 'never' understood the mentality where someone looks at an MMO they enjoy (this doesn't seem to apply to other games), and then stand there paralyzed staring at it for fear of 'wasting time' doing things in the game, only to find out a lot of people are leaving or the guild is disbanding or whatever.

If you enjoy the game, play it, nothing is wasted if you are having fun. What you do 'today' to have fun, no one can take that away from you, it already happened.

Live Long and Rotate! (Star Trek/Happy Days Mash-Up)

I don't get all the hand-wringing. Who cares whether the game will be around 10 years from now?

 

If you're having fun, keep playing. Once it's not fun anymore, stop playing.

Wait... so.... what you're saying is... if i do something for entertainment, and it's entertaining, I should keep doing it... and if it stops being entertaining, I should stop doing it?

This is madness! Sheer, unadulterated, madness!

The way in which I pretend to be a magic elf in fairyland... sorry, a magic knight in outer space... is the sole thing which defines my entire existence! Anyone who likes to play make believe differently from me is my mortal enemy (and is stupid, wrong, and probably murders kittens). You... you can't just play a game while it's fun, then maybe stop and play something else, then maybe come back, or, even worse, like two different games, or want to do different things at different times. That's simply not possible. Not at all. There can be only one game which is absolutely perfect and everyone should play, and all the other games are totally stupid and they're all going to die yesterday!

Please, stop posting these insane, incomprehensible, ideas!

PS: To the morons in the audience whose distant ancestors probably got outraged by how J. Swift advocated killing babies (and who probably think Colbert is a real conservative and that Onion articles are real news), the above was sarcasm. Sar-cas-m. Google it, or, as a particularly stupid poster in this thread might say, "goggle it".

See what I mean?

 

Experience.

 

Good post.

Every developer is different; the most applicable evidence we have as to what might happen to TOR is WAR. You're fooling yourself if you think that can't happen here, albeit on a longer timescale (say, 18 months instead of 12).

People are so negative nowadays, as well as impatient.

First off, BioWare has stated, DE himself specifically has stated that subs haven't changed, just how how many concurrent users are on at any particular time. Please show some undisputable, ironclad, statistical facts that the game is dying? The marketwatch stuff you posted is ancient news. Conjecture isn't going to get you anywhere and EALouse is full of crap because the tripe he spewed has been disputed time and time again.

Just look at the promotions this month; that upcoming quarterly report will be padded by how many bought 1-month subscribers interested in a free month or whatever other garbage they were offering for re-subscribing?