EDIT:

 

Upvote the reddit thread, keep this thread bumped, let Bioware know we are *not* a minority they can just ignore.

 

 

EDIT2: More or less every argument against boils down to "I don't want this because I think it gives an advantage to people who can afford joysticks/gamepads" or "I don't want this, because I think it's dumb, and therefore there should not be an option." or "I don't want this, because it takes development time away from X"

 

Response to number 1: People say that about fight sticks in Fighting games, yet you'll still see people at tournaments using both a controller and a fight stick.

 

Reponse to number 2: You are what is wrong with this community. Just because you won't use something doesn't mean it shouldn't be there. It's an option that will bring in more customers and increase options to the customers already here. It doesn't hurt anyone who doesn't want to use it, and only helps the people who do.

 

Response to number 3: No, it doesn't. Video game design doesn't work like that. The people doing interface coding aren't the people doing art assets, or level design, or class design/balance. Video game design is full of specialists and people who can do general things. Interface coding is usually done by people who do a lot of under the hood stuff, as in not the people who are making new content for the game.

 

 

Hear me out.

 

You are creating an online vehicle combat game. While it is possible to control these things with a mouse and keyboard, people who prefer precision when it comes to moving with a vehicle will often vote for a joystick/flight stick, and maybe even a controller.

 

Additional input support with a gamepad isn't difficult, xinput is natively supported in windows machines which allows all xbox 360 (and now xbone controllers) to be used as a PC controller. There are multiple bindings available already, and if you separate flight controls from on ground controls, this allows multiple bindings for each.

 

I know there is very little reason to have a joystick on the ground part of SWTOR, awesome you've gotten away with it forever, but when you create a flight section of the game where people want to move - a controller is a great addition.

 

Mouse smoothing/etc. can work, it's possible - but you are shutting yourself off from a large crowd of enthusiasts who prefer (and dare I say demand) controller/joystick support.

 

As is, this is how the current control scheme works. Your mouse x and y control your x and y flight by sending your ship moving towards your cursor (which is also your firing arc). You can turn to a maximum around a big circle that is around the center of the screen, after that you can't shoot any further or turn any faster.

 

This could be done on a joystick simply by removing the big circle (because at this point it's just clutter) and forcing the circle to reset (either immediately or slowly) to the center when the joystick goes neutral, and when it is at it's max, be where that circle would be.

 

This would create balanced joystick support without giving an inherent advantage to either party.

Edited January 10, 2014 by Swerto

While I agree that native support would be the best, mapping controllers is a way that you can use 360/ps3 controller. Set one thumbstick to "wsad" for movement, the other for mouse up/down/left/right, and then other buttons for mouse clicks or whatever keys are used for abilities. You can also change the sensitivity of button clicks/ mouse movements. I use an application called xpadder to map my ps3 controller, and it works great with the flight in battlefront 2. Not ideal, and confusing to map at first, but definitely a viable option. Edited November 21, 2013 by desint
Grammar

They're not going to do that. I'm afraid they have a strong aversion to adding anything to this game that other games have done very well. It's like they go out of their way to do things differently just for the sake of being different, and not for what works well. Edited November 21, 2013 by Hambunctious

No

 

This is a MMO. It is primarily an MMO. It is advertised as an MMO. The standard user interface for an MMO is a keyboard and a mouse.

 

As such, the vast majority of all players will be using a keyboard and a mouse to access the game.

 

To keep things 'fair' all players should have to use the same interface devices to use the game, and so at least leaving the control defaults/native support to keyboard and mouse creates this basic, level, playing field.

 

If you want to u se a joystick and re-map it to work with the control scheme presented in the game. Fine, but it will have to be effort on your part and NOT native support so that, again, the playing field is level and the default/standard/official control scheme is what everyone who signed up to play an MMO already has.

It depends on how they do it really, sometimes, joystick support isn't required.

It depends on how they do it really, sometimes, joystick support isn't required.

 

Ive never seen that proven true in a full 3d flight game.

No

 

This is a MMO. It is primarily an MMO. It is advertised as an MMO. The standard user interface for an MMO is a keyboard and a mouse.

 

As such, the vast majority of all players will be using a keyboard and a mouse to access the game.

 

To keep things 'fair' all players should have to use the same interface devices to use the game, and so at least leaving the control defaults/native support to keyboard and mouse creates this basic, level, playing field.

 

If you want to u se a joystick and re-map it to work with the control scheme presented in the game. Fine, but it will have to be effort on your part and NOT native support so that, again, the playing field is level and the default/standard/official control scheme is what everyone who signed up to play an MMO already has.

 

 

Support does not mean remove the mouse/keyboard scheme, it means add the option for joystic/controller in a balanced way that doesn't' leave an advantage for either party.

While I agree that native support would be the best, mapping controllers is a way that you can use 360/ps3 controller. Set one thumbstick to "wsad" for movement, the other for mouse up/down/left/right, and then other buttons for mouse clicks or whatever keys are used for abilities. You can also change the sensitivity of button clicks/ mouse movements. I use an application called xpadder to map my ps3 controller, and it works great with the flight in battlefront 2. Not ideal, and confusing to map at first, but definitely a viable option.

 

Why would you do that when battlefront 2 natively supports joysticks/gamepads?

Why would you do that when battlefront 2 natively supports joysticks/gamepads?

 

I honestly didn't know it had native support, I mapped the controller before I even installed the game.

No

 

This is a MMO. It is primarily an MMO. It is advertised as an MMO. The standard user interface for an MMO is a keyboard and a mouse.

 

As such, the vast majority of all players will be using a keyboard and a mouse to access the game.

 

To keep things 'fair' all players should have to use the same interface devices to use the game, and so at least leaving the control defaults/native support to keyboard and mouse creates this basic, level, playing field.

 

If you want to u se a joystick and re-map it to work with the control scheme presented in the game. Fine, but it will have to be effort on your part and NOT native support so that, again, the playing field is level and the default/standard/official control scheme is what everyone who signed up to play an MMO already has.

 

I have to say I don't agree at all, SWG did it just fine, keyboard and mouse for ground based stuff and then if you wanted you could switch to a joystick for the space flight and no one complained about it being unbalanced or somehow wrong because it was an MMO.

 

Anyway in keeping things "fair" by insisting that everyone uses the same interface devices i really don't see the difference in one person using a joystick fighting one person using a mouse when in space when you compare that to one person using a 12 button mouse and a keyboard with a load of macro keys fighting someone with a standard 3 button mouse and normal keyboard on the ground. For your argument of fairness to really stand up then the game would have to somehow restrict people from using anything but a basic set up.

I completely agree. Joystick support is a must for any flight sim.

 

Off-topic, but have you ever played one of the old X-wing games with a flight yoke? Totally awesome.

I played in the beta.. It really doesn't need joystick or controller support.. I did just fine with mouse and keyboard.. So it doesn't need to be a priority at all.. In fact, I wouldn't even say that it needs to be considered..

 

I really think people should give it a chance and at least try it before saying it needs this or needs that.. I mean isn't even out yet.. Come on now..

I played in the beta.. It really doesn't need joystick or controller support.. I did just fine with mouse and keyboard.. So it doesn't need to be a priority at all.. In fact, I wouldn't even say that it needs to be considered..

 

And why the heck not? I don't think it will be hard without a joystick, but I simply enjoy using a joystick to fly in simulators. It's as basic as that. And I don't believe it's that much to ask.

No

 

This is a MMO. It is primarily an MMO. It is advertised as an MMO. The standard user interface for an MMO is a keyboard and a mouse.

 

As such, the vast majority of all players will be using a keyboard and a mouse to access the game.

 

To keep things 'fair' all players should have to use the same interface devices to use the game, and so at least leaving the control defaults/native support to keyboard and mouse creates this basic, level, playing field.

 

If you want to u se a joystick and re-map it to work with the control scheme presented in the game. Fine, but it will have to be effort on your part and NOT native support so that, again, the playing field is level and the default/standard/official control scheme is what everyone who signed up to play an MMO already has.

 

Up until the last paragraph you sounded like somebody who is childish. 'I don't want/have a joystick to play the game with so nobody else should be able to either.' After the last paragraph you just sound foolish.

 

In a FLIGHT environment, FLIGHT control is essential. Joystick support should be a priority..

Edited November 24, 2013 by MatHughesQC

And why the heck not? I don't think it will be hard without a joystick, but I simply enjoy using a joystick to fly in simulators. It's as basic as that. And I don't believe it's that much to ask.

 

Go play X-Box then or a Play Station.. This is an MMO and not a flight simulator..

 

Is it to much to ask?? I don't know.. Depends on how hard it would be to do.. But as I said.. It isn't necessary.. Why don't you just wait and learn the controls as they are and you will see they aren't that bad.. They are pretty good in fact.. Still if you don't like them after you tried them, then sure.. Asking for a controller would be appropriate.. But most people haven't even tried it yet.. You don't even know what we are getting if you are calling it a simulator.. There is no cockpit view..

 

Think of what we have now, just not on rails.. That is what we are getting and the controls are just as simplified..

Edited November 24, 2013 by MajikMyst

Just put him on ignore, he's a forum torll who gets his rocks off by telling everyone that their suggestion is dumb and that bioware has a perfect game that has no necessary changes.

 

Wow.. Calling me a troll already?? That didn't take long??

 

Give a rest dude. People are entitled to their opinions and entitled to not like your ideas.. But I have come to realize that you have incapable of defending your own views.. You will just throw insults, tell them not to post in the forums, and tell others to ignore them.. I guess actually supporting your view is just to difficult..

 

It isn't my fault that so far, not very many people actually like your ideas.. There a lot of good ideas on this forum... I just haven't seen one from you yet.. I am still hoping though..

 

The only thing wrong with this idea is it is premature.. Hardly anyone has actually tried it yet.. They have no clue what it is we are actually getting.. Even though it has been spammed all over the forums and linked countless times.. I don't think it is to much to ask to actually try it as is first and give it a chance, and then if you want a controller fine.. At least then you can qualify it with reasons why.. As it is now, anyone that disagrees with you, you will be rude to them call them a troll and tell others to ignore them.. Which is really pathetic on your part..

 

Seriously.. Give a rest.. When you tried and at least know what you are talking about.. Then you can make suggestions to improve upon it.. As it is now you are just barking in the wind about something you haven't even tried.. Because when you try it.. I think you will see, it really doesn't need a controller..

Edited November 24, 2013 by MajikMyst

Go play X-Box then or a Play Station.. This is an MMO and not a flight simulator..

 

LOL, and that is why nobody should listen to these people.

Edited November 24, 2013 by Mallorik

LOL, and that is why nobody should listen to these people.

 

No no no no, this game was designed for people like him, and that's why it failed to live up to expectations. The game would have been better off if it had catered to the 1.3 million who left in the first 3 months after launch, and not to people like that guy.

 

They, the devs, listened to all the beta testers who told them everything was perfect, and not to the ones who told them the truth. We even had Georg in there telling testers to like it, or leave. He wasn't very smart, evidently.

No no no no, this game was designed for people like him, and that's why it failed to live up to expectations. The game would have been better off if it had catered to the 1.3 million who left in the first 3 months after launch, and not to people like that guy.

 

They, the devs, listened to all the beta testers who told them everything was perfect, and not to the ones who told them the truth. We even had Georg in there telling testers to like it, or leave. He wasn't very smart, evidently.

 

Wow... You have it all figured out don't you.. That is why we have a guild bank because we told them the game was perfect.. That is why we have any events at all is because we told them the game was perfect.. That is why we have a ready check, because we told them the game was perfect.. That is why we have countless other things and countless bugs have been fixed because we told them the game was perfect..

 

Yup.. I would most certainly agree that you have it all figured out..

Edited November 25, 2013 by MajikMyst

LOL, and that is why nobody should listen to these people.

 

Why?? Because you know you everything about everything and your opinion is all that matters?? Oh right I forgot.. My bad.. Carry on..

 

Let me know when can share your opinion without being insulting.. People might listen to you at that point..

Why?? Because you know you everything about everything and your opinion is all that matters?? Oh right I forgot.. My bad.. Carry on..

 

Let me know when can share your opinion without being insulting.. People might listen to you at that point..

 

No because you are telling people they shouldnt be asking for js support and if they want to play a flight game that has it they should play another game.

 

And im not trying to get anyone to listen to me anymore, ive made my arguments already. Now im just pointing out the ignorance of the people on this board fighting to keep options out of the game that might bring in more players.

 

If you don't like being insulted stop posting on subjects you know nothing about and offering solutions like go play another game.

No

 

This is a MMO. It is primarily an MMO. It is advertised as an MMO. The standard user interface for an MMO is a keyboard and a mouse.

 

As such, the vast majority of all players will be using a keyboard and a mouse to access the game.

 

To keep things 'fair' all players should have to use the same interface devices to use the game, and so at least leaving the control defaults/native support to keyboard and mouse creates this basic, level, playing field.

 

If you want to use a joystick and re-map it to work with the control scheme presented in the game. Fine, but it will have to be effort on your part and NOT native support so that, again, the playing field is level and the default/standard/official control scheme is what everyone who signed up to play an MMO already has.

 

Yes well I do agree that use of an controller would be an unfair advantage to that one portion of the game. It's not like it's an impossible feat either. There are plenty of third party programs and such which can allow a person to use a controller even for games that weren't meant for console controllers of any kind.

 

If you don't believe me here's a video of a guy playing world of Warcraft with a Wii remote and nunchuck.

 

Point I'm trying to make is while it won't be as easy if the support isn't just handed to the players people will be using controllers anyway. There's too many tools and reliable methods for a player to do that. All that adding in direct support do would be making it easier for the majority of players who do have an X-box controller to plug in.

 

I'd rather have it semi balanced then fully dominated by the minority that have the technical knowhow to figure out how to do it themselves. Why? Because I prefer even matches. They're more fun.

Yes well I do agree that use of an controller would be an unfair advantage to that one portion of the game. It's not like it's an impossible feat either. There are plenty of third party programs and such which can allow a person to use a controller even for games that weren't meant for console controllers of any kind.

 

If you don't believe me here's a video of a guy playing world of Warcraft with a Wii remote and nunchuck.

 

Point I'm trying to make is while it won't be as easy if the support isn't just handed to the players people will be using controllers anyway. There's too many tools and reliable methods for a player to do that. All that adding in direct support do would be making it easier for the majority of players who do have an X-box controller to plug in.

 

I'd rather have it semi balanced then fully dominated by the minority that have the technical knowhow to figure out how to do it themselves. Why? Because I prefer even matches. They're more fun.

 

I don't know how balanced it is going to be.. Even in the Beta, there were some folks that were just clean the room with anyone they chose.. Dulfy being one of those people.. Her and her crew irritated the crap out of me.. They were most certainly good.. You had to be one your game to beat them..

 

I completely agree that people will use some sort of 3rd party system to use a controller.. And that is fine.. And maybe in the future, Bioware will add native support.. Who knows.. I tend to think that Bioware will leave this as a 3rd party solution.. I do have a USB controller on my computer.. I might give it a try at some point.. Again who knows..

Edited November 25, 2013 by MajikMyst

Now to clarify.. Him calling it a flight sim is not accurate to what we are getting.. I'm sorry.. But what we are getting nothing close to a flight sim.. To me, anything with a cockpit view can be considered something of a flight sim.. We are not getting that and we aren't getting anything close to that..

 

What we are getting is EXACTLY what we have now minus the rails.. The controls are exactly the same.. Except now you have to press forward and your ship accelerates.. Back and it slows down.. Left and right turns, or you can use the mouse to simply point the nose.. Which actually is a targeting reticle in front of your ship.. It is how you aim your lasers and missles.. You then have maneuvers that you can bind to specific keys.. These are preset maneuvers.. Loops and stuff.. Nothing that you actually perform.. You press a button and your ship does a flip.. There is a speed boost button.. This makes you go faster.. Navigation is a combination between your mouse pointing the reticle the way you want to go and you pressing forward on your keyboard.. Hardly a flight sim.. I think your left and right keys can either be turn or strafe.. But there is a separate section for key binding for your star fighter..

 

All I am saying is that people should give what we are getting a chance before they go QQ about a controller option.. Since what we are getting has very simple controls.. I think a controller would actally be a bad idea..

 

Sounds a lot like Rogue Squadron 3-D from back in the day, and yes, that had joystick support. Really not sure why you're throwing a fit over the idea of the release including native support for a certain kind of commonly used controller.

Get back to me when you have actually read my post.. You shouldn't respond to any post that you didn't actually read.. Just saying..

 

Now to clarify.. Him calling it a flight sim is not accurate to what we are getting.. I'm sorry.. But what we are getting nothing close to a flight sim.. To me, anything with a cockpit view can be considered something of a flight sim.. We are not getting that and we aren't getting anything close to that..

 

What we are getting is EXACTLY what we have now minus the rails.. The controls are exactly the same.. Except now you have to press forward and your ship accelerates.. Back and it slows down.. Left and right turns, or you can use the mouse to simply point the nose.. Which actually is a targeting reticle in front of your ship.. It is how you aim your lasers and missles.. You then have maneuvers that you can bind to specific keys.. These are preset maneuvers.. Loops and stuff.. Nothing that you actually perform.. You press a button and your ship does a flip.. There is a speed boost button.. This makes you go faster.. Navigation is a combination between your mouse pointing the reticle the way you want to go and you pressing forward on your keyboard.. Hardly a flight sim.. I think your left and right keys can either be turn or strafe.. But there is a separate section for key binding for your star fighter..

 

All I am saying is that people should give what we are getting a chance before they go QQ about a controller option.. Since what we are getting has very simple controls.. I think a controller would actally be a bad idea..

 

This is just a case of people haven't actually played something and they simply can't know what would improve it until they have played it..

 

A cockpit view doesn't make a game a "sim" not even close. Realism makes a game sim. there are pleanty of "arcade" flight games out there with js controls and cockpit views that aren't "sims" HIS, WOWP and war thunder all fall under this category and all have js support, you know why? Because people who play those kind of games like joysticks and they wont be coming to play this game if it doesn't have them.

 

And I have played GS, a lot. Its been on the pts the last two weekends, I only played one game this weekend because of the teso beta but I logged on just to double check that the stupid point and click flying was still in.

 

Im not giving it a chance because Ive seen it and I know what flight people want, joysticks. I know if im looking at a new flight game being released and i see mouse only, i dont even bother to read any more about it. That's how important it is to people like me, well that and the fact that if its mouse only it wont last a year outside of asia.

 

Yeah the majority of mmo players don't have joysticks but they have game pads and you better believe the majority of flight people do. So if bioware has your attitude of "Go play X-Box then or a Play Station.. This is an MMO and not a flight simulator" Then good for them, I hope they are happy spending all this time and money on an expansion that tens of people will come to swtor to play and the part of the existing player base who like flight games and are not turned off by the pvp only aspect who will play it.

Edited November 25, 2013 by Mallorik