I hate Marauders. And Sentinels. I will never join another flashpoint where I have to heal for one again.

So, first was Athiss, my Sorceror 21 Healer, a Powertech 22 Tank, a Sniper 21 DPS, a Marauder 19 DPS. The DPS won't stop pulling until he dies, because he's got Rage and he's going to spend it, and if other people have no resources to spend that's not his problem. He wears a mix of Cunning and Strength armour, he needs on a piece of Cunning armour and excuses himself saying he thought it was useful because it's medium armour - so the PT and I patiently explain the difference between Cunning and Strength armour and why he needs the second and doesn't need the first. He breaks CC repeatedly, both mine as Sorc and a couple of Droid hacks from the Sniper, even after it's explained why that's not needed. He ignores adds to focus on the most powerful enemy, even when the PT asks him not to. He dies in the last fight, because he won't stop swinging to get away from the fire. Then he Needs on a sniper rifle, just because.

Well, that's bad, but I like to believe it's a new player in their first real FP where roles matter. Surely te same can't be true at higher levels. I switch to Republic, get my Combat Medic out, queue, and almost immediately get a Maelstrom Prison run. Well, I'm level 40, so it's a little bit below my level, but why not it's not as if I need something harder. a Shadow and Sage from the same guiild, and a Sentinel.

The Sentinel is less competent than the Marauder, and rude in chat to the healer who wasn't keeping him alive and the tank who wasn't holding aggro. As far as I could tell he never did anything to lower his own threat, and concentrated on attacking whichever target the tank was on "because burning down the mobs quicker is better!" As you can probably imagine, a Sentinel determined to keep using their Focus rather than "letting it go to waste" is rather good at taking aggro from a Shadow with no/little force, and if the tank doesn't have enough to aggro the other mobs then they look for a target like the healer to turn into a smear on the ground. Almost the whole time that Sentinel was in the group then I was tanking encounters by healing myself through the damage everything was inflicting, while the sage off-healed and the shadow and sentinel did DPS. Rather predictably he didn't try to use cover to avoid the laser. Immediately afterwards we vote-kicked him, and got a perfectly nice Vanguard DPS a few seconds later who finished the mission with us.

You'll excuse me if I take that experience with a grain of salt since Oriconian tanking gear mostly favors Endurance and their enhancements have Accuracy and Alacrity on them. Even some Dread Forged pieces (shadow tank gloves, for example) have a completely useless enhancement. While a dps and a healer can get by with some more accuracy or alacrity, these are useless for a tank and have to be replaced. Gearing a tank has always been a terrible chore and BW has done nothing to make it a bit easier, let alone bring it on par with dps and heal classes.

I should take a moment here to remind you that any spec with a short-term ICD without a synched up normal cooldown will be screwed over by alacrity, e.g. Assault/Pyro spec, Infiltration/Deception spec, ect... and in other cases (Watchman/Annihilation Sentinel/Marauder, Vigilance/Vengeance Guardian/Juggernaut) it doesn't do anything at all.

So a couple of stories today from me:

While on my 41 Vanguard (Shield Spec) in KDY, I was grouped up with a couple of commando DPS (28 and 50), and a Guardian (15), I've really got to hand it to the Commando's they did a great job jumping from DPS to Heals and back again, but the guardian.... wow, I thought it was almost cute how they thought to use Guard on me all the time, I'd remove it, they'd cast it on me again... no matter I still kept the act as the agro whore. My issue with the guardian, is they never let anyone recover from the fights, so all three of us troopers were going into fights at 50% or less resources, so glad I've got a bunch of skills that I can use for free in my spec... but even when we asked them to slow down, we got no response from them, nothing! What is KDY teaching people about group etiquette?

The next one comes from my 35 Merc Arsenal spec, I will never understand why some people que for roles they will not run... The last run I did on boarding party, was an all Bounty Hunter run, it would've been great, if the 'healer' and the other 'DPS' had actually qued for the roles that they wanted to play... what we had for that run, was two tanks and two DPS, till I took my 25 points spent in arsenal, and proceeded to heal the group, while the 'healer' only wanted DPS.... Now I managed to pull it off, but only just, makes me think about re-specing as a healer.... so again I wonder what KDY is teaching people...

Now don't get me wrong I think KDY is a great idea, just a bit on the poor execution this tactical flashpoint system is, if you ask me, is not teaching people what they need to know, if you go outside of KDY.

Actually its really not that odd to get strength gear as a shadow(tank). A lot of your attacks are melee which benefit from strength as much as it does from willpower. Add to that that a 180 strenghtshield will have the offhand forcepower which is one of the best upgrades available in your gear.

In short this tank wasn't odd, he was being smart about his gear and very knowledgeable about how his class works. Which furthermore got shown by apparently his skilled gameplay.

Greetings--

I saw this and I had to respond, because as someone mentioned earlier, we have many 'kdy cadre window lickers' who will believe anything. It said in your post that you had experience with all three tanking classes, but you must have let your poor shadow rust. This above me, is plain bull. strength is a MAIN STAT for the warrior class. As a shadow/sin of any class but especially tank, never never use anything with strength. I don't know how people saw this and didn't react. maybe its a troll post. As a 2yr shadow tank, please guys, always use mods with your main stat! DO NOT ever use another classes main stat for a dps gain. The augments you want are the shield, absorb and to a lesser extent defense. A good Shadow tank always always stacks MITIGATION. Now I may not be the best or the most knowledgeable, but this line "It's really not odd to get strength gear as a shadow' and 'Alot of your attacks will benefit from strength as much as willpower' are extremely wrong statements. Call me crazy, but if ya don't believe me, go talk to a shadow tank, or to the shadow forums, and ask people that know their stuff. If you are looking for a dps gain as a shadow tank, use a power crystal in your MH, as the shadow tank can stand to lose +41 endurance. And never take advice from someone who thinks it's OK to use another classes main stat in your gear, next thing ya know they will say its ok to use accuracy because you wanna make sure your hits are accurate, lol. Anyway, sorry for the rant guys, but I just couldn't let something so wildly wrong go unanswered. Also sorry for the wall of text, I'm on my cell and its already a pain in the behind typing. Be well.

P.S. About the guys using his deeps set and his guardians shield cause he was broke, if he did a good job still, then tally ho, carry on.

So I got a quick Czerka Core Meltdown (normal) just now.

Before we even fight that first patrolling alarm droid where you enter the instance proper, the Commando in the group --yes, a Commando-- asks in /party:

"So who's got the off-heals?"

A Commando.

At level-cap.

Asks this.

I guess that, like me, the other two thought that too stupid to even dignify with a response, but, as I was typing something to the effect of it not strictly being needed if you don't play like a complete retard, this guy runs back out to where the phase barrier is, and sure enough, two-three seconds later, "[Commando's Name] has left the group."

Me in /party: "Jesus Christ, these people."

Has this game's community plummeted so far that someone playing a mirror of the the class who is either,

A) The most powerful single-target burst-healer in the game if heal-spec'ced

or

B) Has arguably the game's best off-heals if damager-spec'ced

Can't be arsed to drop a Kolto Missile on a party member every now and then, even just as we're running along between pulls? I mean I do that almost unconsciously on my damager-Mercs even in a Trinity-group, for ****'s sake!

Even by the pathetically weak and low standards of this game, there is a level of craven carebear badness that should not, not ever, be tolerated, IMHO --people like that are a disgrace to the Rep-side mirror of my favourite AC, I really wish there was something PvP-ish that I could do to them in-game to enforce a little "community standards."

Oh, our all-pure-DPS group got through it just fine, with me doing the odd bit of Slinger-tanking on the bosses, but I'm not un-ignoring this idiot to tell him that. Enjoy your that-much longer queue-times, baddie!

E:

Bads gonna bad, and as we say in Canada: "What can ya do, eh!" I know, I know: It's just a game, but there should still be reasonable limits, no?

If the healer is under attack then it is always the tank's fault (unless mechanics ofcourse).

No, it's not always the tank's fault. DPS priority exists because sometimes the tank cannot be in all places at once. If the tank is holding the attention of 2 silvers, and 1 weak is on the other side of the room hitting the healer, it's the dps's fault for not getting that weak.

Tank controls the fight and has an overview of the fight. If the tank notices that the dps are ignoring some weak mobs which are now on the healer, then the tank has to grab them.

Think about what you've said here. If the dps are ""ignoring"" weak mobs, it is clearly the dps's fault. Which means the dps should go get that mob, not the tank. The tank can try, sure. But if we are assigning blame, it would fall on dps.

Better said, if the healer gets agro from the tank, then the tank did not hit everything.

Ofcourse you can mention to the dps to take those weaker ones first since it its their 'job' (or task? Sounds so not fun). But the tank is responsible for minimizing the damage dealt to the healer, even if the derp dps gets more incoming damage for ignoring his task/job/killing priority (and attacking the strong one first).

It's not a matter of the healer getting aggro FROM the tank. If the mob goes unhit, nobody has aggro on it. The healer then becomes the sole aggroer of that mob or mobs.

A dps ignoring kill priority will not necessarily take more damage. If they attack the gold that the tank is on, for instance, they will not take more damage (but the healer will get hit). A dps WILL take damage from following kill priority if the tank is not able to get that weak, but that should be easily handled by them. Also, you have the healer (damage free, by the way, because of proper kill order), who can heal the tiny damage from the weak.

Sadly, often when I dps I see both my co-dps and the tank taking on the strong, leaving me on healer protection duty.

It's a joint effort by the team to protect the healer. Even the healer (line of sight to avoid death until someone realizes, for example. Don't stand there and blame people for dying when you could have easily positioned yourself behind a box and still be in healing range)

Greetings--

 

I saw this and I had to respond, because as someone mentioned earlier, we have many 'kdy cadre window lickers' who will believe anything. It said in your post that you had experience with all three tanking classes, but you must have let your poor shadow rust. This above me, is plain bull. strength is a MAIN STAT for the warrior class. As a shadow/sin of any class but especially tank, never never use anything with strength. I don't know how people saw this and didn't react. maybe its a troll post. As a 2yr shadow tank, please guys, always use mods with your main stat! DO NOT ever use another classes main stat for a dps gain. The augments you want are the shield, absorb and to a lesser extent defense. A good Shadow tank always always stacks MITIGATION. Now I may not be the best or the most knowledgeable, but this line "It's really not odd to get strength gear as a shadow' and 'Alot of your attacks will benefit from strength as much as willpower' are extremely wrong statements. Call me crazy, but if ya don't believe me, go talk to a shadow tank, or to the shadow forums, and ask people that know their stuff. If you are looking for a dps gain as a shadow tank, use a power crystal in your MH, as the shadow tank can stand to lose +41 endurance. And never take advice from someone who thinks it's OK to use another classes main stat in your gear, next thing ya know they will say its ok to use accuracy because you wanna make sure your hits are accurate, lol. Anyway, sorry for the rant guys, but I just couldn't let something so wildly wrong go unanswered. Also sorry for the wall of text, I'm on my cell and its already a pain in the behind typing. Be well.

 

P.S. About the guys using his deeps set and his guardians shield cause he was broke, if he did a good job still, then tally ho, carry on.

I think the point was about the the armouring in The shield, not the mods or augments.

Having a 78 armouring (in shield for tanks) or saber, or blaster, is better than a 72 or 69 one, no matter the mainstat, simply because of the tech power and armor rating that a 78 one brings.

IE, a scoundrel would go for a 78 aim barrel over a 66 cunning one because of the monumental tech power, bonus damage, and bonus healing increase.

It's the same basic principal for shadows.

I think the point was about the the armouring in The shield, not the mods or augments.

 

Having a 78 armouring (in shield for tanks) or saber, or blaster, is better than a 72 or 69 one, no matter the mainstat, simply because of the tech power and armor rating that a 78 one brings.

IE, a scoundrel would go for a 78 aim barrel over a 66 cunning one because of the monumental tech power, bonus damage, and bonus healing increase.

 

It's the same basic principal for shadows.

Greetings-

First off, I'd like to say I have great respect for FiB, your guys amazing clear of the dread entity inspired my team to go for it and we have our servers 3rd (i believe its 3rd, maybe 4th). We had so much fun clearing it twice a week to get friends their dread slayer title, and it bonded the lot of us, so thanks guys.

As to your post, I will have to disagree, though you used a tech class, and I'm a new player when it comes to tech classes. That said, if I was to use your example for a shadow tank, and say I will use a 78 might hilt over a 66 resolve/force wielder, that just seems asinine to me. Same with armoring, like you believe the poster was meaning. Please, cause I will admit I could be missing something, tell me what situation would it be OK for a shadow tank to use the 78 armoring from a different class if you only have 66 or 69 armoring. I don't see any situation where that would be beneficial for a flash-point or a raid. Especially considering the fact that no matter what, 4 of your armoring's should be a set bonus piece even if they are 69 armor with the rest being 180 comm stuff.

Now in your example you mentioned 180 aim over 66 cunning for the healing bonus, and I cannot speak to that, so I will defer to your knowledge in that respect. Now please, community, someone tell me if I am way off base here for thinking how I am, and if you think I am, then why? Also because I do not want to derail this thread, I will post a funny story of my own.

I hate Marauders. And Sentinels. I will never join another flashpoint where I have to heal for one again.

Just one thing... Sure those two were utter idiots. Sure there is too many derps mara/sent out there. But no, not every mara/sent is stupid.

A good mara/sent will know they can, and should, begin a fight at 0 rage/focus without any trouble. A good sent/mara will force camo if the tank can't taunt off them once they steal aggro. A good mara/sent will NOT leap ahead. A good mara/sent WILL use his brain.

And just so you know.. a Carnage mara/Combat sent can and will steal aggro from a tank rather easily in the first 15 sec of the fight and they WILL tank through it. In the same way... mDPS can easily steal aggro from tank if they aren't using their threat drop, which mara/sent lack of. Force Camo vanish a mara/sent from the threat table of anything actually targetting him.

Hey all-

Now this didn't happen in a group finder mission, but it is a weird and amusing story non the less.

So, my group and I are going in to clear dread entity. We have 3 amulets on this night, usually we have 4 or 5. For those of you who are not familiar with dread entity he is the super secret boss hidden in terror from beyond hard mode/nim mode. The way he is summoned is by an amulet that only drops when you kill dreadtooth with a 10 stack buff of his dreadful essence. Then you clear tfb hm (though a full clear is not required)

We get into the instance, get everyone in voip, and start the explanations and the tactics. The first pull goes awry, but it's ok, we have a few people who have never pulled it before. We go back in for our 2nd round with the entity. Things are off to a really good start, we're using all the room available to us, and once we get him up the first set of stairs, the boss drops into the floor! Now this is something that happens to me from time to time. It actually is more common then I realized, even for people with really awesome machines. I should also mention that target of my target was not working for some reason, I would do target of my target, and get the boss in my target bubble, but it would say that I was to far or could not see the boss, weird right? So my co-tank and I adjust, and I have to rely only on my area taunt only to keep this boss on me while my MT's stacks go away. Now we are on the 2nd flat area and about to go down the 2nd stairs and 2 dps also lose the boss. m-dps.

In the confusion we lose someone to a knockback into the lightning because he was in the wrong spot. Well, we get the dread entity down to the cave mouth, which is where he is supposed to die, and we have 19% left. I cannot see the boss still. We do a running fight through the cave, losing people who are down in the water and for some reason can't jump back up. We finally get through the cave and out of our group of 16 we have the two tanks (me who can't see the damn boss, lol) 3 healers and 5 deeps. The boss is 6%. The dps start dropping and the healers focus heal the tanks. We are now in the area where the vortex's spawn. I die, my co-tank dies, and the rest of the dps die. We are down to 2 healers and less then 0%. Bless the mando healer and the scoundrel, cause an aoe attack from the mando and xs-freighter flyby in addition to the remaining dots from the boss bring him down.

It was a close one man, and it was a lot of fun. This is a really fun boss to pull. Oh, and with the 3rd amulet, some folks hopped on alts, we pulled it again, and not only did it not dissapear but we killed it at the mouth of the cave.

I know it wasn't group finder, but thanks for letting me share this story.

I fully understand him "being cheap" when it comes to gearing his tanks. It's a real P.I.T.A. Especially if you're gearing two different tanking classes. Tanks have it worst.

Yeah gearing a tank can be a pain, specially if you do not tank Ops very often. My Vanguard knows all too well...

@jrwellwort... The point was actually even simple than that. Strenght boost melee attack on a Shadow. So it's not a completely wasted stat. Force Power boost your Force attack, so the higher the better.

Very true.

I feel I need to clarify the gear he had. The Shadow tank's gear was full Willpower-based tanking armor (all 78/180 quality), Willpower-based lightsaber (also 78/180), crafted Dread Forged implants for tanking with adv. absorb augs, Oriconian tanking earpiece with adv absorb aug, and Obrsian tanking relics with adv. absord augs. The armor itself (legacy set), the lightsaber, and the Strength-based legacy shield generation (78/180) had adv. Might augs in them. So his gear was sound save for the Might augs he had to use and the shield being Strength based. Man just needed to grind money for his proper augs and get a few more Ultimates to grab his 78 Willpower shield.

Had no issues with his tanking. Just found it interesting he had such great gear only to have to use hand-me-down Augs and shield until he could afford to finish his gear.

Ran HM Czerka Corporate Labs last night. I was Scoundrel healing alongside a Vanguard tank, an Assault Commando, and a Combat Sentinel. Everyone was pretty decently geared and we clicked pretty well as a group. We killed the first two bosses without any trouble or deaths, and then while we're at the final cutscene before Rasmus, I make sure to type "Remember, no more than two adds out at a time."

The tank types back something like "We have the DPS to just burn them all". As soon as he pulls, he starts running around letting out all the adds at once and not hitting them. Once we're all frantically trying to deal with them, he deigns to go back and pick up the boss. Of course, my heals are being overwhelmed by the massive amounts of incoming damage, and naturally the blue dudes that haven't been burned yet are following me around and punching me because the tank doesn't have the sense to hit them at all. The Commando dies, but I manage to stabilize the group and rez him once the adds are taken care of, and we finish the kill. I vengefully stop healing the tank once Rasmus hits his burn phase at 30%, but alas, the tank survives the fight.

After the kill, I tell the Vanguard to listen to the healer next time and NOT do the exact opposite of what is recommended, because there's no reason to make that fight difficult for us. He blames the Sent for not killing the adds fast enough. Stay classy, tank.

tell me what situation would it be OK for a shadow tank to use the 78 armoring from a different class if you only have 66 or 69 armoring. I don't see any situation where that would be beneficial for a flash-point or a raid. Especially considering the fact that no matter what, 4 of your armoring's should be a set bonus piece even if they are 69 armor with the rest being 180 comm stuff.

It only relates to offhands. For armor pieces, the item rating determines how much armor value (kinetic/energy damage reduction) you get. But for shields, generators, and foci, the item rating on the armoring determines how much tech power or force power you get! The wrong mainstat is stat pool going to waste, sure, but it may be worth it IN YOUR OFFHAND ONLY.

I got a good one.

Queued for my daily tactical, and everyone was a DPS in dread forged gear. It was Assault on Tython.

Despite no communication whatsoever, we managed to skip every single unnecessary mob (including the bridge one because we had a shadow) and our DPS was so ridiculous that we bugged out all the bosses -

The first guy died after calling in the first wave of reinforcements (at 30% health), but never bothered calling in an artillery strike.

The second guy's droids never exploded, because they were killed too quickly

As for Lord Goh... Well he tried to channel on the relic-thing, but every time he did it, the relic exploded instantly and instead he lied on the floor for 15 seconds. He died before he could finish the second relic.

But yeah, the more you know. Excessive DPS CAN break bosses!

But yeah, the more you know. Excessive DPS CAN break bosses!

I went soloing the Call to Arms series on my level 55 Powertech tank, since I hadn't yet done those quests (Boarding Party and The Foundry) since achievements went live. I don't think this is supposed to happen...

It's not bad tanking if a healer takes damage, only if the healer dies. That being said, there's no real reason a healer should be receiving extraneous aggro. A Tank can engage everything, and lose aggro on a couple mobs to hard hitting dps players without it being a big deal. None of that should blow back on the healer though, unless someone is really screwing up.

One example I believe we've all seen is Hammer station. That second room with the two droids and the three silvers. All of them are ranged mobs, which makes it really tricky. At this point, I just prefer to line of sight that pull and tank everything at once. It's easier. But some people don't understand how line of sight pulling works, and will immediately start to attack (even in a 55HM where you'd think they ought to know better), or they'll cc a droid and gain all the aggro, which then shifts to the healer when he panics and tries to keep them up.

No, it's not always the tank's fault. DPS priority exists because sometimes the tank cannot be in all places at once. If the tank is holding the attention of 2 silvers, and 1 weak is on the other side of the room hitting the healer, it's the dps's fault for not getting that weak.

How about: tank is tunnel-visioning one silver (and obviously not using guard, just a reminder for those who do not know what I am speaking of: http://www.torhead.com/ability/9dWVpRX/guard "While active, the guarded player takes 5% less damage and generates 25% less threat."), the rest of the mobs are attacking the healer, and whichever mob I hit hits me, the DPS? As a medium armor DPS, I'm not exactly off-tank, and my CC and defensive abilities have a cooldown.

It is not always the tank's fault, but in this particular case it was. It is not always the DPS' fault as well. Or the healer's, for that matter.

I was once Tanking on Colicoid Wargames (in 2012) and as we hit the first mob, after the turret minigame, we all died pretty quick after receiving very little healing from our merc healer. After reviving ourselves, the same thing happened again, and after being questioned about the lack of heals, the merc came out with the best (worst) response ever..

"Sometimes healing is too hard so I do damage instead"

How about: tank is tunnel-visioning one silver (and obviously not using guard, just a reminder for those who do not know what I am speaking of: http://www.torhead.com/ability/9dWVpRX/guard "While active, the guarded player takes 5% less damage and generates 25% less threat."), the rest of the mobs are attacking the healer, and whichever mob I hit hits me, the DPS? As a medium armor DPS, I'm not exactly off-tank, and my CC and defensive abilities have a cooldown.

 

It is not always the tank's fault, but in this particular case it was. It is not always the DPS' fault as well. Or the healer's, for that matter.

How many times...?

- Threat reduction is useless on healer if healer is the only one on mob's aggro table.

- Threat reduction is useless if you're the only one hitting the mob.

I was once Tanking on Colicoid Wargames (in 2012) and as we hit the first mob, after the turret minigame, we all died pretty quick after receiving very little healing from our merc healer. After reviving ourselves, the same thing happened again, and after being questioned about the lack of heals, the merc came out with the best (worst) response ever..

 

"Sometimes healing is too hard so I do damage instead"

Wut? Spamming "1" is hard?

Greetings-

 

First off, I'd like to say I have great respect for FiB, your guys amazing clear of the dread entity inspired my team to go for it and we have our servers 3rd (i believe its 3rd, maybe 4th). We had so much fun clearing it twice a week to get friends their dread slayer title, and it bonded the lot of us, so thanks guys.

 

As to your post, I will have to disagree, though you used a tech class, and I'm a new player when it comes to tech classes. That said, if I was to use your example for a shadow tank, and say I will use a 78 might hilt over a 66 resolve/force wielder, that just seems asinine to me. Same with armoring, like you believe the poster was meaning. Please, cause I will admit I could be missing something, tell me what situation would it be OK for a shadow tank to use the 78 armoring from a different class if you only have 66 or 69 armoring. I don't see any situation where that would be beneficial for a flash-point or a raid. Especially considering the fact that no matter what, 4 of your armoring's should be a set bonus piece even if they are 69 armor with the rest being 180 comm stuff.

 

Now in your example you mentioned 180 aim over 66 cunning for the healing bonus, and I cannot speak to that, so I will defer to your knowledge in that respect. Now please, community, someone tell me if I am way off base here for thinking how I am, and if you think I am, then why? Also because I do not want to derail this thread, I will post a funny story of my own.

First off, Thank you One of my favorite things about FiB is meeting so much of our server when we run events, or do clears like that. I'm glad to hear we inspired a great deal of fun!

Secondly, I think you misunderstand me slightly. The only time I'd ever use a different stat is in mainland or off hand, so set bonus doesn't come into it.

For you see, in MH and OH, the hilt or armouring is what decides the force power and Max/Min damage of the item. A strength hilt and a willpower hilt will have the same endurance, so what it comes down to is 70 willpower, vs say (I don't know the exact values btw) 150 force power, 120 minimum Damage and 180 max...

As force power acts the same strength as Normal power, the amount of a Bonus damage/Healing increase you get is more than you'd get from your willpower, as the 78 hilt gives a huge bonus over a 66 one.

Now, the higher the tiers you go, the less difference this makes, and eventually a 69/72 willpower hilt is better than a 78 strength one, but until you get to 69 or 72, a strength 78 hilt would be better off if you can find one from an alt.

So indeed, you should always take mainstat over another stat, but only if it's point for point worth it with bonus damage, tech power etc added in.

So. Strength (78/180 rating) > Willpower (66 rating) hilt

But Strength (78) < Willpower (69/72/78)

Again I reiterate, this is only mainhand and offhand. Never augments, never gloves/legs/chest etc...

How about: tank is tunnel-visioning one silver (and obviously not using guard, just a reminder for those who do not know what I am speaking of: http://www.torhead.com/ability/9dWVpRX/guard "While active, the guarded player takes 5% less damage and generates 25% less threat."), the rest of the mobs are attacking the healer, and whichever mob I hit hits me, the DPS? As a medium armor DPS, I'm not exactly off-tank, and my CC and defensive abilities have a cooldown.

 

It is not always the tank's fault, but in this particular case it was. It is not always the DPS' fault as well. Or the healer's, for that matter.

Wait, are you really complaining about getting hit by a weak mob?

It's WEAK. As in, the healer could probably kill it. And you are a damage dealer. Lotsa damage + weakling robot = quickest pile of scrap metal this side of Tatooine.

Also, since it's impractical to debate every possible scenario, I was simply stating some general rules that seem acceptable by the community.

1. Tank should do his best to gather up all mobs. If can't get all, at least get strongest and those around it.

2. Anything else should be picked up by dps, otherwise they will attack heals.

In your original story, if it really was 2 silvers that the tank couldn't hold, then yes he wasn't taking properly. But his statement about dps getting "ads" (assuming he meant weaks/extras/strays) isn't unreasonable. If he held on to the 2 silvers and a few weaks fought the dps, that is perfectly fine.

in any case: as a dps, it is absurd to think you should not take damage. It's going to happen, even when the tank is doing his job properly.

And regarding guard (heh), if the dps weren't stealing threat FROM the tank, the dps did not need to be guarded. Same goes for the healer. A lot of healers get one tiny scratch and freak out, saying, "guard me or I leave". Keep in mind it's not about the fact that someone is getting hit, but rather WHY they are getting hit.

-Is healer getting hit by a mob that nobody else touched? Guard won't help that.

-Is dps getting hit because he's fighting a weak to save the healer? As long as the tank holds the important mobs, be a helpful team member and fight the weak.

-Is dps stealing aggro from the tank during a boss fight and taking massive damage from the boss? Guard needed.

If you mean by pita that its redonculusly easy to gear up tank than you are correct

Both armoring, mods and enhancements from the oriconion vendor are very viable for tanks to use. They might have higher endurance but in fact the difference with underworld is unbelievable tiny. Just addup the mitigationnumbers and you'll see.

Also in DF/DP there are A LOT of random drops with very good defense/absorb enhancements (the DF-ones) which makes it so freaking easy to gear up. In Macewindies group there's a guardiantank who wondered why the hell the dps where still not geared full 78 DF while he already was for ages.

So ..... yeah ..... Tanks are by far the easiest to gear up.

(FYI I have all 3 tankclasses so gearing wise I'm speaking from my own experience ;-)) \

Ok, firstly, i want to say that, comparative to gearing healers, and dps, gearing tanks does take the most work and time to do so, that should go without saying and is a PITA, speaking from experience of having geared every AC in the game to date exception of marauder, any class that could tank, or heal, i would spec and gear them as such, and just gear the exclusive dps classes. Its not hard to complete fps, and ops, but still more work than the other roles. That should go without saying.

Actually its really not that odd to get strength gear as a shadow(tank). A lot of your attacks are melee which benefit from strength as much as it does from willpower. Add to that that a 180 strenghtshield will have the offhand forcepower which is one of the best upgrades available in your gear.

In short this tank wasn't odd, he was being smart about his gear and very knowledgeable about how his class works. Which furthermore got shown by apparently his skilled gameplay.

FYI, this is COMPLETELY inaccurate that strength benefits a shadow in this way. YES, a shadow does have melee attacks and perhaps logically IRL increasing strength would increase your attacking power on some douche bag LOL, but ingame, and strength DOES NOT at any stage in game increase a shadows dps output, tank or not. Now, you are correct regarding force power, but its ridiculous to think that way about strength on a shadow, its not smart, it is however not understanding your class.

Speaking of which...

 

I went soloing the Call to Arms series on my level 55 Powertech tank, since I hadn't yet done those quests (Boarding Party and The Foundry) since achievements went live. I don't think this is supposed to happen...

ahahah made my mind explode