kckkryptonite Posted January 25, 2012 Share Posted January 25, 2012 (edited) So you want to remove PvP stratification and make it exclusively PvE that causes it? Okay. Edited January 25, 2012 by kckkryptonite Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KOTOR-LOVER Posted January 25, 2012 Share Posted January 25, 2012 OK I'M GOING TO EXPLAIN WHY EXPERTISE IS NEEDED!!! People are confusing expertise with gear progression. For our example, I'll take away expertise. There is no expertise anymore in the game. But we still have gear progression meaning tier 1, tier 2, tier 3 armor and weapons. Now tell me, A VALOR 60+ PLAYER IN FULL BATTLEMASTER VS A FRESH 50. The gears do not have expertise. What do you think will happen? Do you think the the fresh 50 will somewhat miraculously have a chance? Of course not. With or without expertise, that fresh 50 is going to get rolled BECAUSE OF GEAR!!!! BECAUSE THERE IS GEAR PROGRESSION. Expertise is there so that people who raid will not be able to suddenly go to warzones and wreck pvpers through gear. It's the only reason expertise is there. That's why it needs to be gear AND expertise. Everything needs to be equal. The fresh 50 will not win for one reason only in this case: skill. The valor 60+ player will be SO much better that they will obviously win! Why must players be rewarded for playing more when they are most likely already better at their class!??! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zombifikation Posted January 25, 2012 Share Posted January 25, 2012 You do not have to finish with the most kills in a warzone to get champion bags. You can get them via team wins or ilum quests. /discussion. There is nothing preventing a new 50 from getting the gear. This is nothing but PVE carebears wanting to roll people in PVP. Pretty much. It would then turn into wow, where you would have to pve first before attempting PvP. Now you don't have to. Sure its a grind, but when isn't something in an mmo a grind? Everyone will get there eventually and be equal apart from skill, where the true players will shine through. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xxdragonragexx Posted January 25, 2012 Share Posted January 25, 2012 (edited) To the people that want to REMOVE GEAR PROGRESSION. It will probably be nice. You don't have to grind and everyone is equal and so on. But it will never happen. This is a MMO that is modeled to cater the majority which basically means gear progression will always be here. That's why it needs to be gear AND expertise. Everything needs to be equal. The fresh 50 will not win for one reason only in this case: skill. The valor 60+ player will be SO much better that they will obviously win! Why must players be rewarded for playing more when they are most likely already better at their class!??! Ok, you win. I agree. I give you a cookie or something. Too bad it will never happen. They will never take away gear progression. Edited January 25, 2012 by xxdragonragexx Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ztee Posted January 25, 2012 Share Posted January 25, 2012 That's why it needs to be gear AND expertise. Everything needs to be equal. The fresh 50 will not win for one reason only in this case: skill. The valor 60+ player will be SO much better that they will obviously win! Why must players be rewarded for playing more when they are most likely already better at their class!??! Question is, why shouldnt they? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darth_Vampirius Posted January 25, 2012 Share Posted January 25, 2012 If expertise goes, then they need to do either one of two things.#1 Permanently ban raiders from PVP. You went on a raid? Fine, now your WZ icon is greyed out forever.OR#2 Delete classes from the game entirely. Since niether of these will ever happen, Expertise is fine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KOTOR-LOVER Posted January 25, 2012 Share Posted January 25, 2012 Question is, why shouldnt they? Then they get an unfair advantage and PvP is no longer based only on skill? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darth_Vampirius Posted January 25, 2012 Share Posted January 25, 2012 Then they get an unfair advantage and PvP is no longer based only on skill? If you want PVP based on 100% skill and nothing else, go play Gears of War. MMOs are not like that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Berinima Posted January 25, 2012 Share Posted January 25, 2012 Still, expertise how it works in this game is flawed by design. A possible solution to make everybody happy could be: http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=231300 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Razot Posted January 25, 2012 Share Posted January 25, 2012 (edited) If you want PVP based on 100% skill and nothing else, go play Gears of War. MMOs are not like that. No PVP stat. Not even one point of expertise was used during filming.... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kGDWsIF37g4&feature=related You wont get it but "I was there!!" I was really was... Edited January 25, 2012 by Razot Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StealthStalker Posted January 25, 2012 Share Posted January 25, 2012 OK I'M GOING TO EXPLAIN WHY EXPERTISE IS NEEDED!!! People are confusing expertise with gear progression. For our example, I'll take away expertise. There is no expertise anymore in the game. But we still have gear progression meaning tier 1, tier 2, tier 3 armor and weapons. Now tell me, A VALOR 60+ PLAYER IN FULL BATTLEMASTER VS A FRESH 50. The gears do not have expertise. What do you think will happen? Do you think the the fresh 50 will somewhat miraculously have a chance? Of course not. With or without expertise, that fresh 50 is going to get rolled BECAUSE OF GEAR!!!! BECAUSE THERE IS GEAR PROGRESSION. Expertise is there so that people who raid will not be able to suddenly go to warzones and wreck pvpers through gear. It's the only reason expertise is there. Search for "Wards" or "Ward" and "Warhammer", or check my post history for recent posts regarding the idea. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pinealogik Posted January 25, 2012 Share Posted January 25, 2012 If you want PVP based on 100% skill and nothing else, go play Gears of War. MMOs are not like that. So MMO are for skill-less noob then? Okay, sound fun. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dalnar Posted January 25, 2012 Share Posted January 25, 2012 Expertise is like disease developed to cure another disease. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yamok Posted January 25, 2012 Share Posted January 25, 2012 If PVP needs a reward system, then have it apply expertise to your character, not gear. It has no use outside of PVP, but while in PVP it "activates". The higher the valor you have, the more "expertise" your character earns. I hate a system where you have to "swap gear" constantly. EverQuest 2 had a style where every ability you had did something different depending on if you were PVPing or PVEing. If you hit a mob with a super hit, you did 15,000 damage. If you used the same ability on a player, it did 3,000 damage. No gear changes needed. It auto applied to skills....not gear. this is a great idea! and some1 else mentioned a % per every 10 valor ranks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flogy Posted January 25, 2012 Share Posted January 25, 2012 Easy Solution to PvP outside of bugs and imbalance: 1. give players a gear score 2. rank players based on valor rank and the gear score 3. group servers into "battlegroups" so when you Q for a warzone you Q with many other servers. 4. some *********** entry level pvp gear (player made gems/gear) Pvp doesn't seem "broken" but it does seem a bit ****ed up, on my server (the harbinger) republic gets rolled Hard and it just seems like a huge difference in gear. I'm not sure if that is due to the Sith having been more active in pvp or exploiting it or both but its frustrating to a point that even though i never post on game forums (5years in wow 0 forum posts) here I am, ************ about pvp having just come from a crushing defeat on Alderaan. I love the idea of pvp in a MMO but whats the point if the avg. life expectancy of everyone on my team is like 1 min. Say what you will about world of warcraft, battlegrounds kicked *** I still remember my 1st grinds in Alteric valley fighting my way to SP then across the bridge into Dun Baldir. Know what I remember about star wars pvp? Getting rolled hard by the opposition and i cant do **** about it. So please see the steps above and get on it Devs. Not sure about the rest of you but if things dont change I'm heading back to wow for some solid pvp, with the right enchantment anything can look like a lightsaber. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yamok Posted January 25, 2012 Share Posted January 25, 2012 Easy Solution to PvP outside of bugs and imbalance: 1. give players a gear score 2. rank players based on valor rank and the gear score 3. group servers into "battlegroups" so when you Q for a warzone you Q with many other servers. 4. some *********** entry level pvp gear (player made gems/gear) Pvp doesn't seem "broken" but it does seem a bit ****ed up, on my server (the harbinger) republic gets rolled Hard and it just seems like a huge difference in gear. I'm not sure if that is due to the Sith having been more active in pvp or exploiting it or both but its frustrating to a point that even though i never post on game forums (5years in wow 0 forum posts) here I am, ************ about pvp having just come from a crushing defeat on Alderaan. I love the idea of pvp in a MMO but whats the point if the avg. life expectancy of everyone on my team is like 1 min. Say what you will about world of warcraft, battlegrounds kicked *** I still remember my 1st grinds in Alteric valley fighting my way to SP then across the bridge into Dun Baldir. Know what I remember about star wars pvp? Getting rolled hard by the opposition and i cant do **** about it. So please see the steps above and get on it Devs. Not sure about the rest of you but if things dont change I'm heading back to wow for some solid pvp, with the right enchantment anything can look like a lightsaber. O God not Gear score! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flogy Posted January 25, 2012 Share Posted January 25, 2012 Easy Solution to PvP outside of bugs and imbalance: 1. give players a gear score 2. rank players based on valor rank and the gear score 3. group servers into "battlegroups" so when you Q for a warzone you Q with many other servers. 4. some *********** entry level pvp gear (player made gems/gear) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CupieFoxtail Posted January 25, 2012 Share Posted January 25, 2012 Without expertise, how am I supposed to beat two significantly less skilled players? They'll kill me after I get just one of them down Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Avindra Posted January 25, 2012 Share Posted January 25, 2012 Stop right there. In every other non-mmo game, the biggest reward is skill over time. You get BETTER at the game you are playing if you put more time into it. That's what PvP needs to be about. Skill and that's it. Not gear nor anything else that gives players that play more an unfair advantage. I beg to differ, I have played many mmos where there were really bad players who got gear then became passable. Still bad but atleast now they could do their job. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Avindra Posted January 25, 2012 Share Posted January 25, 2012 Expertise is an Empire only stat, Republic dont have access to it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Viikuna Posted January 25, 2012 Share Posted January 25, 2012 Without expertise, how am I supposed to beat two significantly less skilled players? They'll kill me after I get just one of them down Without expertise, how it's fair that pure PvE carebear with ~10 valor rank could run rampart and be equally as good as those with 60+ valor rank and full PvP gear? Expertise is here to remove the need to do PvE for item X, if it's PvP you want to play. Expertise is here to remove the need to do PvP for item Y, if it's PvE you want to play. Expertise is here to not allow that top tier Operation weapon drop to be best in slot for PvP player, and the other way around (because expertise is wasted stat in PvE) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roak Posted January 25, 2012 Share Posted January 25, 2012 the extra stat is on the wrong gear. if you insist on an extra stat it should be for raid gear tier 1 raid gear has stat that makes tier 2 raid possible/easier tier 2 raid gear has stat that makes tier2 and tier3 raids possible/easier etc Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chiffy Posted January 25, 2012 Share Posted January 25, 2012 (edited) I can agree with this idea as in many other mmo games its always the one who is more op or has more "PVP Stat/s" that wins. Another idea could be to implement Warzone 'Expertise tiers' where instead of you just vs any lvl 50 you vs other lvl 50's in war-zones which are around the same lvl of expertise as you. e.g. 50-100 in expertise stat difference (different numbers possibly).This way the expertise stat stay and the pure PvP player play with other pure PvP players, where as those casual PvP'ers without the gear can go up against other casual PvP'ers. I think this would keep the pure pvp players happy as they would play with 'generally' pure pvp players and it would keep casuals happy as they wouldn't get their butts kicked, in warzones, by the Pure PvP'ers. that's my 2 cents put in. =P Please quote/reply on this idea (OP i would like to hear your input especially). Edited January 25, 2012 by Chiffy Add more Info Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Viikuna Posted January 25, 2012 Share Posted January 25, 2012 (edited) the extra stat is on the wrong gear. if you insist on an extra stat it should be for raid gear tier 1 raid gear has stat that makes tier 2 raid possible/easier tier 2 raid gear has stat that makes tier2 and tier3 raids possible/easier etc If the extra stat would be on PvE gear, that would make it better for PvP. And only make PvE gear better for PvE, while not making PvP gear better for PvP. PvE Item (not real, but to give example): 110 Aim 75 Endurance PvE Extra stat PvP Item (not real, but to give example): 85 Aim 100 Endurance If i would be playing dps in PvP, i would 100% sure choose the PvE item for bigger burst/dmg numbers. Even as healer i would choose the given PvE item for PvP (higher health pool only allows me to take more dmg, without healing myself, before i die.) However, if that 'extra stat' is in PvP gear and PvP releated (like it is currently): * The PvE item would still be better for PvE * The PvP item would be better for PvP So yes, the 'extra stat' is on the right gear. Edited January 25, 2012 by Viikuna Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roak Posted January 25, 2012 Share Posted January 25, 2012 If the extra stat would be on PvE gear, that would make it better for PvP. And only make PvE gear better for PvE, while not making PvP gear better for PvP. PvE Item (not real, but to give example): 110 Aim 75 Endurance PvE Extra stat PvP Item (not real, but to give example): 85 Aim 100 Endurance If i would be playing dps in PvP, i would 100% sure choose the PvE item for bigger burst/dmg numbers. Even as healer i would choose the given PvE item for PvP (higher health pool only allows me to take more dmg, without healing myself, before i die.) However, if that 'extra stat' is in PvP gear and gear PvP releated (like it is currently): * The PvE item would still be better for PvE * The PvP item would be better for PvP So yes, the 'extra stat' is on the right gear. another not real example: endgame item: 85 aim 100 endurance armour slot: raid reward: changes item to exclusive skin, pve extra stat (modifies damage/healing/defence in raids only) pvp reward: changes item to exclusive skin, counts towards set bonus Makes pvp less about gear, doesn't give pve gear an advantage in pvp the extra stat is on the wrong gear. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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