Hey guys,

 

Just wanted to let you know I am passing this on to the combat folks to look into. I will let you know once I have an update. Thanks for bringing this to our attention!

 

-eric

Thanks Eric, looks like we got some more detailed info after the initial post, but if those guys wanna come in and explain any changes that would be awesome.

Make sure you link this post in the stuff for your combat folks to look into, instead of the unsubstantiated QQ that make up 99% of this thread:

 

http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?p=6471948#post6471948

 

TLDR version: Conqueror > PvE crafted implants, ears, weapons right now. Working as intended.

.

You call crafted PvE being better than Partizan working as intended?

while this was true, the solution would have obviously been to create a mk3 set of recruit gear that was better suited to allow new players to be competitive? not to come up with this ridiculousness that is bolster

Oh, I only covered the biggest problem with Recruit Gear.

Then there was the inherent problem of basically giving level 50 starter gear to anyone who hits the level cap. There was no reason to even pick up Tionese except for maybe the set bonus (and it wasn't that hard to collect Columni gear first). And that's not even counting what it does to the crafting economy: again, what reason is there at all to buy level fifty mods when you can just get free gear that's better than anything you can make? And have I even mentioned that War Hero -- which you could buy almost immediately at fifty if you had saved up -- was almost as good as Rakata?

I'm not saying Bolster is perfect but I can see it becoming acceptable after some fine tuning. But the gear-based system we had before was just utterly and horrifically broken. Each new attempt to fix it not only failed but introduced greater problems -- problems that weren't just affecting PvP but unbalanced the whole endgame experience.

You call crafted PvE being better than Partizan working as intended?

No, it's not working right.

All of the Bioware cheerleaders need to figure this out.

The problem with Recruit gear is that people didn't wear it. They'd sell it and then show up in warzones with pure pve gear and handicap their team. When called out on it, the typical reaction was "I don't care".

The solution is simple. I've suggested it many times before and it is mentioned repeatedly in this thread. Change any item worn in a warzone to equal the corresponding Partisan item with a -2 End modifier if it has less expertise than the Partisan item. If an item worn had expertise equal (or better) than Partisan, then it works with it's native stats. Simple. Non-exploitable. Easy for the player base to understand.

I don't understand why people get so upset over there not being enough gear difference.

You know, you could just be good so gear doesn't matter....

Get rid of the difference in armor. Like SWG had it. 1 set of armor for the entire game. Then it is about mods and skill, for PVP and PVE.

A much better approach is to eliminate all stats on PVP gear except for EXP. Lower the number, and instead of it being a static replacement of bolster, make it additive, so a whole set improves EXP around 5% over bolstered add a second tier that is 6% over. Voila. PVP progression without curbstomping.....

I did extensive testing yesterday (until my head was 'bout to 'splode) comparing my Conq. gear with *some* crafted gear. I say "some" because there is no crafted purple 54 off-hand weapon with Aim on it. So I did have the crafted purple ear, impl.x2, and mainhand weap. As is typical for me, sometimes I could take screenshots inside WZs and other times I couldn't. (Frustrating and intermittent bug which results in pages and pages of quickly scribbled down stats).

Post patch with crafted items: Expertise - 1954

RANGED:

Damage (Pri) - 1364-1849

Bonus Dmg - 798.9

Crit Chance - 27.95%

Crit Multi - 75.52

Health - 28994

TECH:

Bonus Dmg - 1351.8

Bonus Heals - 952.6

Crit Chance - 28.47

Crit Multi - 75.52

PVP:

Dmg Boost - 58.10%

Dmg Redux - 36.75

Heal Boost - 19.74

Now substituted with Conq mainhand weapon (Again, Conq. offhand used throughout), and Conq Implants (2) and Conq earpiece: Expertise - 2018

RANGED:

Damage (Pri) - 1378-1863

Bonus Dmg - 812.6

Crit Chance - 26.00%

Crit Multi - 73.85

Health - 31209

TECH:

Bonus Dmg - 1365.4

Bonus Heals - 960.1

Crit Chance - 26.52

Crit Multi - 73.85

PVP:

Dmg Boost - 60%

Dmg Redux - 37.5

Heal Boost - 20.38

I plan to optimize my weapon's item modifications as well as some of those in my armor, but in my estimation, the Conq gear is superior to the crafted, and that's before one factors in the expertise bonuses (both damage and mitigation).

A much better approach is to eliminate all stats on PVP gear except for EXP. Lower the number, and instead of it being a static replacement of bolster, make it additive, so a whole set improves EXP around 5% over bolstered add a second tier that is 6% over. Voila. PVP progression without curbstomping.....

A set without stat, meaning that used outside of PvP it's like being totally naked ?

And meaning that base damage of abilities will be decided by stats coming from other sources, meaning someone with all datacrons and stims will have a huge advantage ? (lower the unbuffed stats are, the higher the advantage given by the buff is).

And meaning that all DPS/Healing specs which don't have increased crit chances in their tree and rely on crit proc will be dead specs because their crit chances will be extremely low ?

And meaning that tanks will be again totally obsolete, as they are fully dependent of ratings such as shielding and absorb in order to be effective ?

...

Hum... no thanks.

I plan to optimize my weapon's item modifications as well as some of those in my armor, but in my estimation, the Conq gear is superior to the crafted, and that's before one factors in the expertise bonuses (both damage and mitigation).

Still makes it better than Partisan which it should not be.

A set without stat, meaning that used outside of PvP it's like being totally naked ?

 

And meaning that base damage of abilities will be decided by stats coming from other sources, meaning someone with all datacrons and stims will have a huge advantage ? (lower the unbuffed stats are, the higher the advantage given by the buff is).

 

And meaning that all DPS/Healing specs which don't have increased crit chances in their tree and rely on crit proc will be dead specs because their crit chances will be extremely low ?

 

And meaning that tanks will be again totally obsolete, as they are fully dependent of ratings such as shielding and absorb in order to be effective ?

 

...

 

Hum... no thanks.

Wait man.... You are jumping to conclusions, but I should have been more clear... Yes a set stat add. Bolster already adjust the stats that matter. If you are low or high in any area bolster adjusts accordingly...

Instead if the dumb *** dye slot, EXP module slot with set bonus. Remove EXP from all mods/arm/enh. Make them two tiers below top tier pve.

This way you still have progression, but the floor and ceiling are now clearly defined, and raiders are still at a slight disadvantage..

while this was true, the solution would have obviously been to create a mk3 set of recruit gear that was better suited to allow new players to be competitive? not to come up with this ridiculousness that is bolster

That doesn't solve the bigger issue that any entry level pvp gear set inherently has - people just not using it. Even if they made it respectable, you'd still have people who wouldn't wear it, would queue with no expertise and hurt their groups. Some form of bolster is needed for non-ranked pvp, but has no place/role in ranked.

Still makes it better than Partisan which it should not be.

I skipped partisan altogether from the very beginning because A) I could see the stats were crappy even before anyone knew of any alternatives and B) I didn't want to spend the money augmenting crap gear that I would be dumping ASAP just to have to start all over with Conq. I just kept what I had: PvE-ized Elite War Hero, and replaced it with Conq. directly (and I kept some of the armor pieces in my inventory until I had enough for set bonuses). Of course, I did this from the beginning of when the cap was raised & new gear tiers were introduced, so everyone was in the same boat/gear race.

That having been said, the gearing alternatives are well known at this point for those new to the 55 bracket (whether main or alts). Altogether, the differences between the tiers is nominal. Do I like having the full set? Sure. Personally, I like the mini-game (as someone put it) of min-maxing my gear.

Hey guys,

 

Just wanted to let you know I am passing this on to the combat folks to look into. I will let you know once I have an update. Thanks for bringing this to our attention!

 

-eric

dejavu all over again

Wait man.... You are jumping to conclusions, but I should have been more clear... Yes a set stat add. Bolster already adjust the stats that matter. If you are low or high in any area bolster adjusts accordingly...

 

Instead if the dumb *** dye slot, EXP module slot with set bonus. Remove EXP from all mods/arm/enh. Make them two tiers below top tier pve.

 

This way you still have progression, but the floor and ceiling are now clearly defined, and raiders are still at a slight disadvantage..

Ah, okay, like this that's good.

But you don't need to make armorings/mods/enhancements two tiers below. You can make so that it's this new slot that will provide PvEers the extra "classic stats" which will give them the edge in PvE, by giving them items for this new slot that do not have EXP on it but mainstat/end/power/whatever and with PvE set bonuses on it.

With this, we get rid at the same time of the problem of armorings tied to a slot since the bonus wouldn't be on armoring (the slot bind would be obsolete and un-needed), and the problem of "do a PvE weapon will give me more stats than a PvP one ?" since they'll have the same weapon rating.

We go back to the situation of old PvP gear, with same ratings, cross compatible mods, but the only difference would be that the stat & bonus difference wouldn't be on armorings but on another slot. The in-game economy would open again to PvPers too.

Bolster would probably be easier to manage : bolster arm/mod/enh (and also ear/implants as they wouldn't need to be different) that are below rating target, do not touch what is above. For the new slots, if empty bolster would give few percents of EXP below PvP items. If filled, no bolster on the slot (or give less for PvE ones).

Hey guys,

 

Just wanted to let you know I am passing this on to the combat folks to look into. I will let you know once I have an update. Thanks for bringing this to our attention!

 

-eric

This isn't the shadow tank forums where we are all hoping for a developer response?

I did extensive testing yesterday (until my head was 'bout to 'splode) comparing my Conq. gear with *some* crafted gear. I say "some" because there is no crafted purple 54 off-hand weapon with Aim on it. So I did have the crafted purple ear, impl.x2, and mainhand weap. As is typical for me, sometimes I could take screenshots inside WZs and other times I couldn't. (Frustrating and intermittent bug which results in pages and pages of quickly scribbled down stats).

 

Post patch with crafted items: Expertise - 1954

 

RANGED:

Damage (Pri) - 1364-1849

Bonus Dmg - 798.9

Crit Chance - 27.95%

Crit Multi - 75.52

Health - 28994

 

TECH:

Bonus Dmg - 1351.8

Bonus Heals - 952.6

Crit Chance - 28.47

Crit Multi - 75.52

 

PVP:

Dmg Boost - 58.10%

Dmg Redux - 36.75

Heal Boost - 19.74

 

Now substituted with Conq mainhand weapon (Again, Conq. offhand used throughout), and Conq Implants (2) and Conq earpiece: Expertise - 2018

 

RANGED:

Damage (Pri) - 1378-1863

Bonus Dmg - 812.6

Crit Chance - 26.00%

Crit Multi - 73.85

Health - 31209

 

TECH:

Bonus Dmg - 1365.4

Bonus Heals - 960.1

Crit Chance - 26.52

Crit Multi - 73.85

 

PVP:

Dmg Boost - 60%

Dmg Redux - 37.5

Heal Boost - 20.38

 

I plan to optimize my weapon's item modifications as well as some of those in my armor, but in my estimation, the Conq gear is superior to the crafted, and that's before one factors in the expertise bonuses (both damage and mitigation).

Thanks for the info.

Yet another evidence that bolster tweaks have brought things to reasonable levels...

Crafted Weapon, Ears, Implant and offhand still have advantage over hard-earned conqueror gear.

Im sorry but lol @ hard earned.

The only thing you have to do to get them is invest time.. it has nothing to do with skill or aiblity or anything else.. you could suck eggs in every WZ you are in, but if you do enough of them you get the shiny new toys

gear has nothing to do with anything other than the fact you need more sunlight.. get over yourselves.

Crafted Prototype (blue) and Artifact (purple) quality items are now identified properly and are no longer bolstered more than intended. Nope. Where do you get these developers and programmers Bioware?

 

Crafted Weapon, Ears, Implant and offhand still have advantage over hard-earned conqueror gear.

I love Bolster. Crafted gear should be the best gear in the game otherwise what's the point in crafting? Grinding for gear is stupid. "I have more gear than you so my hits do more DPS to you and your hits do less DPS to me, that means I'm "good"".

Im sorry but lol @ hard earned.

The only thing you have to do to get them is invest time.. it has nothing to do with skill or aiblity or anything else.. you could suck eggs in every WZ you are in, but if you do enough of them you get the shiny new toys

gear has nothing to do with anything other than the fact you need more sunlight.. get over yourselves.

I sort of agree with this, despite the fact that I'm what you would call a strictly PvP player.

Obtaining gear through PvP rewards really is simply time investment. Having a high-grade PvP gear takes longer time, so empirically there are implications that someone who has that level of gear would also have longer playtime and more experience, and thus, can be generally considered a better, more skilled player...

...but alas, in reality that's not always true. I've seen suckage from all kinds of buffoons with 33k HP, so smug and careless that they're hardly of any use to the team.

Hey guys,

Just wanted to let you know I am passing this on to the combat folks to look into. I will let you know once I have an update. Thanks for bringing this to our attention!

-eric

Thanks Eric, but we never got an update from the last time you said this. You never told us anything was being fixed until the patch notes. We went 3 weeks without knowing anything. How long will this one be?

That doesn't solve the bigger issue that any entry level pvp gear set inherently has - people just not using it. Even if they made it respectable, you'd still have people who wouldn't wear it, would queue with no expertise and hurt their groups. Some form of bolster is needed for non-ranked pvp, but has no place/role in ranked.

How about having 1 pvp set which you can optimize to increase specific stats though you'd have always a fixed amount of expertise. To prevent people from not wearing it or mixing it with pve mods, make the expertise amount (2013 currently) a requirement to enter a warzone... problem solved.

also just noticed that instead of -1 expertise i used to get from my matrix cube, i not lose ZERO expertise by not using a PvP relic......

working as intended?