I disagree. WoW, Rift, STO, CO, Aion, are not like that at all. LOTRO isnt either for that matter. Again, name another MMO that is linear and anti-explore as this one. Im sure there are some, maybe one's I havent played.

The entire Guild Wars franchise.

Have you actually played WoW? It's easily 10x more linear than this.

 

I have played 15 minutes of WoW but I still highly doubt this assertion, because...

 

It is not possible to make a more linear PvE game than TOR.

 

Gameplay Facts:

- There are no alternative newbie zones for any class.

- Those newbie zones are identical for 25% of all classes.

- After the newbie zones, there are no options at all but to follow the quest path you are forced into.

- After the newbie zones, content is 90% identical for each faction.

- Of the 10% of content that is not identical, it is mostly just a case of taking Door B, instead of Door A at Quest Location #14.

- If you replay any class, it will be identical in every aspect to the previous playthrough. The only changes possible are quest "choices" that in no way change the outcome or path of the quest line. This also counts for advanced classes, ie. the game is identical as a Sage or Shadow.

- If you play another class of the same faction, the game will play 90% identically to the other. A Jedi and Smuggler share 90% of all quest content, for example.

 

Pre-emptive Counter Arguments:

- Flashpoints are NOT alternatives to questline levelling. They are the same mission, on the same map, with the same mobs. There are also only a handfull of them.

- "You don't have to do every quest!" Bull. 90% of them are designed explicitly to be done in concurrence with class quests. They take you to the same place to kill the same badguys. Besides that... When "avoiding content" is your solution to not repeating content, you just don't understand the problem.

- Space missions might be considered an alternative... if they weren't an Intellivision game from 1980 with better graphics.

I only read the first ten pages but. I see there are two distinct arguments going on here:

 

#1 - the areas in which we play in are not big enough. If you want to explore a given planet you are prevented from doing so through various means. Some players want to actually explore the planets for no other reason than they want to.

 

In response...this boils down to perspective. As someone else said, each planet gets more and more expansive as you level so there is more to see. But when you realize that each area is on a PLANET, the area in which you can explore can seem small. Look at this way, the United States is a big country and it can take an individual a VERY long time to visit every nook and cranny, but when compared to the entire world, that one country ain't so big. So from that perspective: area vs planet, there is a LOT more exploration potential.

 

That being said, this is a development decision. Due to resource constraints sometimes certain "features" must be sacrificed to get other "features" done in a timely fashion. In the case of SWTOR, Bioware decided that story was more important than exploration. To this end, they created areas in which the story takes place and ignored the rest.

 

#2 - the path(s) through which we level our characters are too linear. There is no way to alter a given character's path. Furthermore, once you are done with a given planet there is little to no reason to go back

 

On the second part, I have to agree. But having played many MMOs, this is the way it is. Some have claimed that in other games some low level areas have resources that are worth going after. While this is true, I found that process boring (I remember killing fairies in one specific area of EQ1 to get a material for Halas Meat Pies). I would rather have all the materials I need for the stuff I want to do in the areas that are level appropriate.

 

As to the first part, I disagree. On every planet there are four types of missions/quests:

 

- class story (yes you have to do these if you want to at least get your full compliment of companions)

- planet story

- side quests

- heroic (group) quests

 

None of the last three are required in order to level your character. I leveled a character doing nothing but class story on each planet. I filled in the rest of the leveling process with space combat, flashpoints and warzones.

It sounds to me that people expect this to be like WoW, where everything is explorable. Only issue is that WoW is ONE planet and they are able to connect all their zones together. Star Wars in general cannot do that unless you only want one planet. They have to work with what they have. To create massive maps for each planet with the way SWTOR is designed just wouldn't work well IMO. Now I do agree that little things bug me. Like how there really are walls on Taris, you can't walk on mountains, ect.

I'm going to chime in with an insignificant opinion.

 

As someone who never played mmos before, and was drawn to TOR for the singly-playery stuff, I enjoyed leveling classes. I felt that it gradually brought me out of a single-player shell into wanting to group with others to try out Heroics and Flashpoints. I liked that the bonus series brought be back to areas of the planets I hadn't seen before. I liked that I never felt purposeless and always had something to do and a place to go (by comparison I've started every single Elder Scrolls game ever made and have yet to finish ANY of them).

 

Now, I've seen posts from a lot of people who are used to MMOs, and have seen ways that other MMOs do great things and are complaining that SWTOR doesn't have these things.

 

I hear about this other stuff TOR doesn't do and I think, "What a great idea!"

 

I'm not yet bored enough with TOR to leave. I still have a few class quests to finish. XP perks help me to skip over stuff I've seen before. Jumping between pub and imp also help. I also found a group of like minded people that I enjoy hanging out with in vent while I play.

 

But, as much as I currently enjoy playing this game, I would be thrilled if some of these suggestions were implemented. Give me optional planets to level in. Add more zones to existing planets for higher level characters to return to. Add more meaningful easter egg stuff for explorers. Add some dynamic stuff that changes up the planets like day/night.

 

There's no reason to shut down the people clamoring for more stuff to do in TOR. Won't it make a better game? Even if you are thrilled in every way with this game as it exists right now, wouldn't you like it MORE if some of this other stuff were added?

I'm going to chime in with an insignificant opinion.

 

As someone who never played mmos before, and was drawn to TOR for the singly-playery stuff, I enjoyed leveling classes. I felt that it gradually brought me out of a single-player shell into wanting to group with others to try out Heroics and Flashpoints. I liked that the bonus series brought be back to areas of the planets I hadn't seen before. I liked that I never felt purposeless and always had something to do and a place to go (by comparison I've started every single Elder Scrolls game ever made and have yet to finish ANY of them).

 

Now, I've seen posts from a lot of people who are used to MMOs, and have seen ways that other MMOs do great things and are complaining that SWTOR doesn't have these things.

 

I hear about this other stuff TOR doesn't do and I think, "What a great idea!"

 

I'm not yet bored enough with TOR to leave. I still have a few class quests to finish. XP perks help me to skip over stuff I've seen before. Jumping between pub and imp also help. I also found a group of like minded people that I enjoy hanging out with in vent while I play.

 

But, as much as I currently enjoy playing this game, I would be thrilled if some of these suggestions were implemented. Give me optional planets to level in. Add more zones to existing planets for higher level characters to return to. Add more meaningful easter egg stuff for explorers. Add some dynamic stuff that changes up the planets like day/night.

 

There's no reason to shut down the people clamoring for more stuff to do in TOR. Won't it make a better game? Even if you are thrilled in every way with this game as it exists right now, wouldn't you like it MORE if some of this other stuff were added?

 

Well said Khevar. And your opinion is not insignificant my friend.

WoW's exploration is only slightly better than this game. There is often two choices of zones to level in rather than the set path in SWTOR. The zones are all connected and exhaustion areas aren't as prominent. I also really liked how the dungeons were tied into the zones themselves.

 

The only major exploring I did was jumping into an unfinished Hyjal back in Vanilla WoW.

 

SWTOR's attention to detail is so much better though. Technology aside, WoW's zones were designed in broad strokes, while SWTOR's planets are crafted with finer detail.

Is it December of 2011? A year later and people are still griping about this? It shouldn't be that hard to figure out why a leveling game with a class story specific to each class is "linear". If you want a sandbox game, then go play one. Do you go into a Chinese restaurant and complain that they don't serve hamburgers?

Is it December of 2011? A year later and people are still griping about this? It shouldn't be that hard to figure out why a leveling game with a class story specific to each class is "linear". If you want a sandbox game, then go play one. Do you go into a Chinese restaurant and complain that they don't serve hamburgers?

 

A more apt analogy would be "Do you go into a Chinese restaurant and complain they don't serve Chinese food?"

 

It's an MMO, it should not be linear. As a 10-25% retention rate would attest to.

A more apt analogy would be "Do you go into a Chinese restaurant and complain they don't serve Chinese food?"

 

It's an MMO, it should not be linear. As a 10-25% retention rate would attest to.

You've had zip to say about this game that is in any way balanced or objective. There is a difference between discussing and trashing. Please learn it. Edited December 11, 2012 by GalacticKegger

Is it December of 2011? A year later and people are still griping about this? It shouldn't be that hard to figure out why a leveling game with a class story specific to each class is "linear". If you want a sandbox game, then go play one. Do you go into a Chinese restaurant and complain that they don't serve hamburgers?

 

Its not that we are going to a Chinese restaurant and demanding hamburgers. We are going and wanting a variety of chinese food...do i want fried rice, steamed rice or fried noodles? Do i want the shrimp or the chicken? i guess i'll have the steamed rice and chicken this time, but next week i'll have the fried rice and shrimp! SWTOR's linear zones is like a restaurant that serves rice and chicken every day 24/7/365.

 

You have no choice but the level in your designated starter zone

You have no choice but to go to Coruscant/Drummond Kaas next

You have no choice but to go to Taris/Balmorra next

and so on

 

EDIT: sure you have the option of PVPing or doing space combat to skip zones, but thats not something i want to do.

 

In WoW you can start a Human toon and level in Elwynn > Westfall > Duskwood etc. But say you start a different class, this time a Night Elf. Well you can roll a night elf, but you have the option of going to the human starting zone and following the same leveling path as before this time as a night elf. Or you can just start in your night elf starting zone and follow the night elf areas, or you can go to the dwarf/gnome starting areas and so on. LOTRO and GW2 also give you several zones to choose from as you level.

 

I dont want a sandbox game, i want a themepark with more then 1 ride. I dont want to dread having to level another toon knowing that everything will be exactly the same.

Edited December 11, 2012 by swtonewbie

They are on a flat surface and design with one consideration at a time!

YASWGFBBT

 

Yet Another Star Wars Galaxies Fan Boi Butthurt Thread.

The alternatives only really held true in the old zones when you were pre level 50. In the expansions you almost had to progress thro the zones in the same order.

 

Even when you had alternative leveling zones, the chances are you would level in your races area as it was quite an effort to head over the water and then spend along time running on foot to get to the alternative zone.

 

 

This was when WoW started to go downhill for me, BC, I quit just before WOTLK.

30 minutes in a WZ queue? Man ... which server? I'm on Harbinger and it takes no more than a few minutes tops for WZs to pop. Most take less than a minute, even in non-peak times.

 

I agree completely with your design choices assessment. Design choices abound though one size will never fit all. Just not possible. So the game lives or dies on its merits; and for being just short of a year old its merits are many.

 

Bioware chose 8 separate and concurrent class stories over mutltiple open quest zones for starting players. That's not a "feature" nor a limitation of the game - it is a design choice as you accurately pointed out, and one that is radically different from other MMOs. Whether that is good or bad is up to each individual, and no singular opinion has the final say. Though some futily try to make theirs so.

 

 

Yup, did it between a couple, Korriban is small on a speeder.

 

 

I don't really understand why they don't let you pick up quests on another starter planet, it seems fairly pointless to me.

 

Unless they technically couldn't figure out a way to do it (although that doesn't really explain heroics), in which case it's just one of a long list of things that should have been implimented better, but wasn't.

I disagree. WoW, Rift, STO, CO, Aion, are not like that at all. LOTRO isnt either for that matter. Again, name another MMO that is linear and anti-explore as this one. Im sure there are some, maybe one's I havent played.

 

WoW is basically a small world, and yes its the same design. The only difference is really the scale of potential you can't do much with one world in WoW. Whole galaxy is different.

 

The reason why I say its the same is because you have instances that are larger then the outside would appear and expansion zones that require you to get on boat, portal, etc. The only difference is now you can fly inbetween zones classed as flyable. You can't pull that crap in an instance.

 

Finally at least SWTOR gave us a player home our starships and we can use to go to different zones and at least fly in rail gun gamestyle space combat atm.

 

So your point is pretty moot. The game is basically a bunch of mini sand boxes made through the illusion of programming and story to seem pretty far and big and when look at money grubbing don't care about you cause you're a wallet WoW blizzard I thank god this game is out.

 

Best fun and bad bugs I still take this game over the years I played WoW.

 

Only other game I will play is DCUO, but thats a completely different game style all together.

its a bit restrictive, lets be honnest... The game have lots of "capital cities" but they are actually low level, mission based capital cities.. we all end up in a metal cage somewere in the space. Farming wz and ops....

 

Just consider, why nobody makes a city as his capital, when he gets 50.... U get the point... Thats why some people including me, screaming about world content.

 

courasant for example is such an important city in the story, but its such an un-important city ingame... except if they have some feature plans about it.

 

the worlds I love to see lots of changes and world content for all levels, are.... Courasant, Hoth and Corellia.. I would love to see in a feature expansion the rebuilt of Corellia as a capital.... and also a world that we can built our own guild or personal capital space stations and fleets (with hirelings)... Courasant a bit more active, even for space invasions...etc.. (for the republic side)

Edited December 11, 2012 by Oyranos

The scope of the game is actually quite large, its' just it feels very restrictive because much of that size is divided into factions, class, or mission areas. Some of which might also be engine related, because other MMOs have done the whole 'mission area' concept yet those areas didn't require a single choked entry/exit point to enter.

 

Technically it shouldn't be a problem since going as far back as Guild Wars, studios have shown there are methods available if you want to implement a form of instanced-narrative into your story.

 

Its' just SWTOR tried to desperately hold onto the idea that it could provide an open expansive world, despite its' reliance on instances for the narrative, and restrictions to keep the factions separated so their experiences on the same planet would be different.

 

WoW had to topple a similar issue. With regards to how in Vanilla in an effort to keep the factions separate and unique many obscure faction specific areas ended up being dead and empty, with them either being devoid of content, or full of content only a handful of people would bother with. (Which is why in all subsequent expansions they just put the factions in the exact same zones, main cities, etc) It did end up blending the factions a bit but it succeeded in making the zones more expansive, and interactive.

 

I feel like for future content SWTOR should just make a choice. Either jump fully behind the instanced nature of the gameplay to give each faction a larger environment when they play their instance of a particular planet and regulate cross-factions interactions to designated neutral Hubs and open-world. Or throw the factions into the same zones completely and stop trying to divide the areas between them for the sake of the narrative. (i.e. things like Alderaan having faction specific House Panteer for both Republic and Empire, good for the story maybe to give each faction a more personalize touch, but to accomplish that the zones are essentially divided giving a player only half the zone to work with on any given characters playthrough.)

Edited December 11, 2012 by FROIDBUSTER

Yup, did it between a couple, Korriban is small on a speeder.

 

 

I don't really understand why they don't let you pick up quests on another starter planet, it seems fairly pointless to me.

 

Unless they technically couldn't figure out a way to do it (although that doesn't really explain heroics), in which case it's just one of a long list of things that should have been implimented better, but wasn't.

I'm thinking it's less technical and more a simple case of it not being an overnight implementation kinda deal. That would essentially add an additional 20% to the game, much of which would be voice animation. Not to mention having to restoryboard and rescript to tie the questlines in. Edited December 11, 2012 by GalacticKegger

I'm thinking it's less technical and more a simple case of it not being an overnight implementation kinda deal. That would essentially add an additional 20% to the game, much of which would be voice animation. Not to mention having to restoryboard and rescript to tie the questlines in.

 

The non-class quests are generic though, they wouldn't have to be rescripted. In fact I'm not even sure they unlock with the story now I come to think of it on your start planet.

That's probably where SWG's budget went. Spending tons of money making rollings hills of nothing where you actually stumble upon a cave that has 0 importance, literally nothing to do, but grind enemies, but if you're lucky maybe you'll find a collectible item that does absolutely nothing to your ingame experience other than telling your friends: "Hey! I just found Blasbo Bubbins crusty toothbrush!"

 

By the way, having large open areas is nice, but not to the point where quests are boring, tedious, long drives to distant locations.

 

Good point, I'm mean who doesn't like pointing their toon in one direction, toggling autorun, and finding something to do for a good 10 minutes until you arrive at your location, but God forbid you tab back into the game and see that a 5 inch tall rock brought your toon to a complete stop barely 200m from where you started.

 

ROFL "blasbo bubbins"

I don't really understand why they don't let you pick up quests on another starter planet, it seems fairly pointless to me.

 

Story.

 

Korriban and Tython assume that your character is force sensitive and the quests reflect that. For example, there is a quest early on Tython where your character must be not just a force user but a gifted one in order for the quest to make any sense.

 

Likewise, Hutta and Ord Mantell isn't designed for the NPCs to be force sensitives. For example, there is a quest in Hutta where the NPC would never dare talk to a Sith, even an acolyte the way that he does.

Story.

 

Korriban and Tython assume that your character is force sensitive and the quests reflect that. For example, there is a quest early on Tython where your character must be not just a force user but a gifted one in order for the quest to make any sense.

 

Likewise, Hutta and Ord Mantell isn't designed for the NPCs to be force sensitives. For example, there is a quest in Hutta where the NPC would never dare talk to a Sith, even an acolyte the way that he does.

 

 

Yet apparently you can get them with another player if they share them.

 

And again most of the quest are generic, they aren't main story quests, for example on Korriban there's no mention of the force when you're killing force mad troops, you just have to kill X of them.

Please name one game that allows you to explore every area you can see. Honestly, I would like to try it because exploring is one of my favorite activities. Artificial walls have existed in every MMO I've played and there have been a lot.

 

Vanguard SOH you can go anywhere on all 3 continents.

If you have a flying mount you can land on top of any mountain, any island, any huge building or artifice.

If no mount, you can walk/climb/ride anywhere. Any land you can see you can go to.

Any island you can see you can go to. Even at level 11 you can land safely somewhere in a level 50 area.

Vanguard SOH you can go anywhere on all 3 continents.

If you have a flying mount you can land on top of any mountain, any island, any huge building or artifice.

If no mount, you can walk/climb/ride anywhere. Any land you can see you can go to.

Any island you can see you can go to. Even at level 11 you can land safely somewhere in a level 50 area.

I had never heard of Vanguard so I decided to look it up and see what it was.

 

First thing I found was this description in Wikipedia:

 

"Gamespy awarded Vanguard the "Biggest Disappointment" award for 2007. Vanguard also won the awards in the categories for "Least Fun", "Most Desolate" and "Lamest Launch" in the MMORPG.com MMOWTF Awards for the worst games of 2007."