First of all, never got a chance to say, thank you for your amazing guides and the help you provide in these forums and in SamuelAU's Sharpshooter guide!

 

I've been playing Marksman and Hybrid on my Sniper for quite a while now depending on the boss and feel relatively confident, but I've been asked for a raid-group on my baby-gunslinger recently that demand I play Lethality overall I welcome a change but I have a few concerns/questions:

 

- They ask me to run with the 4-piece setbonus, seeing how often Takedown is in the rotation I get the logic, but is it really needed for resource management?

Yes. 4-pc PVE, especially if you are Full Lethality

 

- How do I handle bosses like Styrak, he disappears and re-appears rather often, is it a matter of learn to play or is it natural to feel a bit gimped in a DoT spec?

You will naturally be gimped in the Styrak fight if you play DoT spec. I suggest you respec MM for this unless you are ok being carried in DPS

 

- Does Lethality really hold more potentional compared to Marksman (or even the hybrid?) Like I said before I don't mind the change

Imo start plaing with 4-pc PVE bonus now. Changes are going to be made in the future and BW is going to tie the current 2-pc PVP bonus to 4-pc bonus. Hybrid and MM are strong in part due to this 2-pc PVP bonus.

 

but I really feel in boss-fights such as Titan 6 (entrench,)

You should be fine running Lethality in HM Titan 6. Unless your healers are really having trouble (or you are running NiM), you could do without the 60% AoE dmg reduction from Entrench. But you have to admit it MM Entrench is really nice utility and dmg reduction for the AoE phases especially the mini-enrage.

 

The Terror from Beyond (adds/jumping away from DoTs)

MM Entrench is awesome for TTFB. In phase 2 you can tank the first slam, and then you can pop Sniper Bubble + Shield Probe + Cover (20% dmg red talent) for the 2nd slam. By the time the 4th slam is out your Entrench is up again.

 

Personal preference for this boss imo.

 

and Cartel Lords (entrench) Marksman can give me a bit of an edge, even if it's just less pressure on the healers.

Same situation as Titan-6. Not required but if your healers are having a hard time, then speccing MM for Entrench will put some pressure off them.

 

In the end, imho, 1) if you want to help your healers, 2) if your healers need help then you can go MM for the Entrench and use the AoE dmg reduction on the bosses you listed above. If your healers are "fine" then you can spec any way you want depending on preference or whichever gives you the most DPS.

 

For the bosses you mentioned i run (4-pc PVE bonus)

Titan-6 - Hybrid

Cartel - Hybrid

Styrak - MM

TTFB - MM

Considering the new PVP serendipitous assault relic stacks with the PVE SA relic and they both proc off damage and heals, wouldn't it be a rather noticeable DPS increase to take Cool Under Pressure instead of Saboteur's utility belt? (this is for hybrid)

Considering the new PVP serendipitous assault relic stacks with the PVE SA relic and they both proc off damage and heals, wouldn't it be a rather noticeable DPS increase to take Cool Under Pressure instead of Saboteur's utility belt? (this is for hybrid)

 

Yeah i'm running Partisan SA and UW SA on my Gunslinger in all 3 specs

Man! Every single one of your guides is amazing. I'm still somewhat new to the game and I have a question for you, if you don't mind a silly question. To give you a bit of background, my sniper is lvl 42 at the moment and I pvp quite a bit, so I can "get a sample of how things are going to look at 55"...

 

With that said, Im having a hard time choosing what to go with endgame, but I have read 2 of your guides (engineering and this one) and I wanted to know what you think are the pro's and cons of each build?

 

Is there one specific build you lean toward?

Man! Every single one of your guides is amazing. I'm still somewhat new to the game and I have a question for you, if you don't mind a silly question. To give you a bit of background, my sniper is lvl 42 at the moment and I pvp quite a bit, so I can "get a sample of how things are going to look at 55"...

 

With that said, Im having a hard time choosing what to go with endgame, but I have read 2 of your guides (engineering and this one) and I wanted to know what you think are the pro's and cons of each build?

 

Is there one specific build you lean toward?

 

Engineering is more of a "niche" slash "gimmicky" end-game spec. You can only do your max dps potential as Engi the following conditions are met:

 

1) The boss has a huge hitbox

2) The boss does not run around all over the map

2.a) Lots of adds for your AoE

 

If the fight fulfills #1 and #2 then I go Engineering.

 

Lethality (Full or Hybrid version) is good for fights where you aren't required to swap targets a lot. I run Lethality when the following conditions are met:

 

1) I am not assigned on add duty (target swapping)

2) I can stay on one target the majority of the fight

2.a) If there are target swaps, I can opt to run Lethality if the add(s) has high enough HP for my DoTs to do its full duration.

I'll give my opinion that nobody asked for, lol.

 

Marksman

Pros: Great straight forward, single-target damage, good damage reduction abilities, best spec for frequent target-swapping and short bursts on command.

Cons: Most attacks are restricted to being in cover (mobility shouldn't be a problem though, be clever with Snap Shot),

not being able to complete a full SOS can mess with your rotation and make you sad, so always make sure your target isn't going to die or shift into another phase when you about to use it. The only tree that doesn't have some kind of attack linked to your roll (other than hybrids).

 

Engineering

Pros: Fun/different playstyle, cool effects, lots of AOE damage

Cons: More difficult to master, requires awkward use of rolling scatterbombs to keep numbers competitive with other specs, sometimes mobs get moved out of your Plasma Probe.

 

Lethality

Pros: has the most mobility, can dot up multiple targets, really easy rotation, full Lethality is the only spec that the 4 piece set bonus is decent for atm.

Cons: Weak mobs might die before your dots have time to tick in a group, target switching is challenging (throwing out too many dots will drain energy), Corrosive Grenade is an AOE and you have to be careful what you throw it around (same problem can be said for Eng Plasma Probe). DOTS have a ramp-up time so if you have to do a lot of quick bursts you may have issues (i.e. HM Styrak or TFB).

^ Nice post Chiu

 

Anyway.. so how is everyone doing on their Snipers/Slingers in Fortress and Palace?

Thanks!

 

We haven't started on the new Ops HM yet. I've been using the Leth hybrid for the last couple of weeks and topping the dps a lot of the time.

Edited October 9, 2013 by chuixupu

Paowee (or one of the other competent posters in this thread), could you maybe in a nutshell summarize and add to the intro posts what are the differences between full lethality and the hybrid spec, and which is suited better to which task/boss?

 

My naive view would be that hybrid has the better AoE potential, and I don't see any real advantages to going full lethality at the moment. Unless it does parse higher single target, but if the leaderboards are any indication that is not the case either. I have not played any of these specs for an extended period of time, though, and therefore am almost certainly missing something.

 

Edit: From the OP

 

Doing IP - CG - CD - Cull with no RS in between will dip you below the 60 bracket.

 

Maybe I missed something, but this statement does not seem correct. IP+CG+CD together cost 11+10+16 = 38 Energy. However from the first cast of IP until the GCD of CD expires a full 4,5 seconds pass. In that time you should regenerate at least 20 energy (not counting extras from Lethal Purpose) so assuming you started at 110 energy then by the time you cast Cull you should be at 110 - 38 + 20 = 92 energy, and thereby on the safe side.

Edited October 16, 2013 by Jurugu

Maybe I missed something, but this statement does not seem correct. IP+CG+CD together cost 11+10+16 = 38 Energy. However from the first cast of IP until the GCD of CD expires a full 4,5 seconds pass. In that time you should regenerate at least 20 energy (not counting extras from Lethal Purpose) so assuming you started at 110 energy then by the time you cast Cull you should be at 110 - 38 + 20 = 92 energy, and thereby on the safe side.

 

Well, let's do the math slightly differently.

 

Seconds

1 --------------- 2 --------------------------- 3 ----------------------------------- 4 ---------------------------- 5

IP (11 energy) ------- CG (10 energy) ------------- CD (16 energy) ------- Cull (25 energy)

99 ------------ 104 -----------94 --------- 99 --------------- 88 -------------- 93 -------- 68

 

It's a rough diagram, but it shows that you'd be at 68 energy when you hit cull, which is right above the limit. But, that also assumes you started at 110 energy. It's admittedly been a while since I played hybrid, but something I remember is you were always flirting with disaster with energy. I wouldn't consider it too unrealistic to consider starting that part of the rotation at 85, 80, maybe even as low as 70 energy. Which at that point, it'll destroy your energy regen.

Paowee (or one of the other competent posters in this thread), could you maybe in a nutshell summarize and add to the intro posts what are the differences between full lethality and the hybrid spec, and which is suited better to which task/boss?

 

My naive view would be that hybrid has the better AoE potential, and I don't see any real advantages to going full lethality at the moment. Unless it does parse higher single target, but if the leaderboards are any indication that is not the case either. I have not played any of these specs for an extended period of time, though, and therefore am almost certainly missing something.

You're right, there's no boss where full lethality shines that the hybrid is a suboptimal choice. If you enjoy playing full lethality it's still competitive, though. It's very very slightly more mobile than the hybrid, since one or two less GCD every two culls needs to be used in cover, and It's also a bit easier on energy management if you have a 4pc set bonus, but any boss where Leth is good the hybrid is also good.

 

Maybe I missed something, but this statement does not seem correct. IP+CG+CD together cost 11+10+16 = 38 Energy. However from the first cast of IP until the GCD of CD expires a full 4,5 seconds pass. In that time you should regenerate at least 20 energy (not counting extras from Lethal Purpose) so assuming you started at 110 energy then by the time you cast Cull you should be at 110 - 38 + 20 = 92 energy, and thereby on the safe side.

 

If I'm not mistaken, that's left over from pre-2.0. In the expansion they lowered the cost of CG and made the rotation a lot more sustainable with less RS uses. You do still need to use an extra ability in this sequence due to the cooldown on cull, though.

Edited October 16, 2013 by namesaretough

Sure, if you are not starting close to 110 energy then you have to watch out. But...

 

Seeing how the usual rotation plays out as

 

<DoT application> - 1st Cull - SoS/Orbital/Ambush/etc. - 2nd Cull- Repeat

 

you have a fourth GCD in the DoT application part. Which is why after the initial rotation I mostly placed the rifle shot there, i.e. something like

 

2nd Cull - RS - IP - CG - CD - 1st Cull

 

That way the Dots are close enough together, and more importantly there is the smallest possible delay between applying CG and 1st Cull, maximizing the chance it will be up for the whole duration of the 2nd Cull in case some random fight mechanic dares to interrupt your rotation.

 

Not sure it is a good idea to do it this way, which is why I put it up for debate.

You're right, there's no boss where full lethality shines that the hybrid is a suboptimal choice. If you enjoy playing full lethality it's still competitive, though. It's very very slightly more mobile than the hybrid, since one or two less GCD every two culls needs to be used in cover, and It's also a bit easier on energy management if you have a 4pc set bonus, but any boss where Leth is good the hybrid is also good.

.

 

It's a very minor preference thing, but I personally like having Corrosive Mine for when I get lost in the Sandstorm on Dash'roode, since it traps the womprats and I can quickly and easily get back to the group without taking a single tick of damage or turning to kill them. I'm sure it's not the only way you can do that, but it just seems the most simple.

It's a very minor preference thing, but I personally like having Corrosive Mine for when I get lost in the Sandstorm on Dash'roode, since it traps the womprats and I can quickly and easily get back to the group without taking a single tick of damage or turning to kill them. I'm sure it's not the only way you can do that, but it just seems the most simple.

 

Oh neat, I never thought of that. Very cool.

It's a very minor preference thing, but I personally like having Corrosive Mine for when I get lost in the Sandstorm on Dash'roode, since it traps the womprats and I can quickly and easily get back to the group without taking a single tick of damage or turning to kill them. I'm sure it's not the only way you can do that, but it just seems the most simple.

 

Yeah. I ran into that the other night. That run was fun. We were basically all just screwing around because our usual progression didn't happen due to lack of bodies, so we just ran into HM SnV. It was great. Tank was struggling to get the shield because of Dash, so I grabbed it. I immediately got lost in the sandstorm xD But yes. CM is great on those womps.

delete Edited October 17, 2013 by paowee

It's a very minor preference thing, but I personally like having Corrosive Mine for when I get lost in the Sandstorm on Dash'roode, since it traps the womprats and I can quickly and easily get back to the group without taking a single tick of damage or turning to kill them. I'm sure it's not the only way you can do that, but it just seems the most simple.

 

I haven't visited this thread in a while >_<. Full Dirty Fighting in HM SnV? Yes! I made lol DF/lethality

mostly just showing SV because I didn't have footage of DF/DP and I was board that one weekend...

 

=====================================

 

My /2c on the recent discussion http://swtorboard.wordpress.com/2013/10/17/buffing-your-lethalitydirty-fighting-hybrid-in-the-dread-masters-fight/

 

The Hybrid rotation makes it almost possible to keep CG and CD ticking on 3 targets while keeping Cull on cooldown on your primary target. The nature of the Dread Masters makes playing the DoT spec a little bit more fun (imo) because you are not relying on CG/SB's AoE component but instead manually targeting every boss in the room and keeping track of all those DoTs as well (zero to minimal clipping). The only hindrance to keeping a 4th target dotted is obviously the requirement to be in melee range to put CG/CD under Calphayus' shield.

 

As far as raid parses, well i'd rather not since and am still quite undergeared: UW relic

75/72 mods/enh and no 78 MH . But using this Hybrid strat I am able to go as high up as

 

800,000

600,000

600,000

550,000

versus other people in the raid. I did run Full Lethality and my DPS went down. After seeing a

 

650,000

600,000

550,000

500,000

i immediately swapped to running Hybrid instead.

Edited October 17, 2013 by paowee

Here are my latest results using the Hybrid strat posted here.

 

gear is DF, UW, KD (ear, implants2), UW + PVP relic, 75 armorings, most mods, and enhancements, 75 MH, 78 OH barrel

 

1496168 slinger

1263015 slinger

1218318 slinger

1210957 mando

1107875 slinger

1072115 sentinel

Tanks

452574

400794

320131

146590

 

everyday just curious how does severity's log for this boss look like?

I'm not sure. I don't pay attention to the meters on this fight since we meet the only two dps checks pretty easily (Styrak/Brontes, and the final burn). We also tend not to have tab-dotting, because we single target the bosses down close to pushing and then move to the next one.

 

Do you really use 4 tanks?

i just found

these rotation as more energy friendly and realtime metters show consistent dmg output

it goes like

CG - CD - Cull - EP - IP - SoS - (IF Lazed Snipe) - Cull - RS - CG - CD - RS - Cull - EP - IP - SoS - Cull

 

From my experience till now in DF/DP ,being Hybrid over Full Lethality gives more dmg output except on Brontes where CD-CG-Cull-Takedown is way bether energy and dmg wise than CD-CG-IP-Cull ,mind that EP is not up every now and than and we have to deal with lots and fast single target swaps.

All in all ,i like how they casted OS useless in most fights and prefered on few add waves that appear.Nerf for 4ticksOS is not needed it was just the mechanics being too much stationary.

I'm not sure. I don't pay attention to the meters on this fight since we meet the only two dps checks pretty easily (Styrak/Brontes, and the final burn). We also tend not to have tab-dotting, because we single target the bosses down close to pushing and then move to the next one.

 

Do you really use 4 tanks?

Not 4 just 3 haha. One kiting raptus, One with bestia and the other on calphayus. We have extra tanks so and we can't really sit anyone out because they are all core-raiders. The other one just swaps to his 69 MH slinger for other bosses when there is absolutely no need for 3 tanks.

 

This is one fight where I reaaaally like playing hybrid. The task of dot managing on 3 out of 4 bosses is quite fun. Plus i'd rather put CG up on another boss instead of rifle shotting my main target. It should not affect your single target DPS when you use CG on a different target during the extra GCD between CD and the first Cull. Just using Rifle Shot i feel is "lazying" the DPS potential of the class and that's why i do it. lol. It's definitely more noteworthy "strategy" as opposed to, say.. having multiple bosses stacked up and ignoring mechanics when everyone is geared up and relying on CG's aoe component

Edited October 18, 2013 by paowee

i just found

these rotation as more energy friendly and realtime metters show consistent dmg output

it goes like

CG - CD - Cull - EP - IP - SoS - (IF Lazed Snipe) - Cull - RS - CG - CD - RS - Cull - EP - IP - SoS - Cull

 

From my experience till now in DF/DP ,being Hybrid over Full Lethality gives more dmg output except on Brontes where CD-CG-Cull-Takedown is way bether energy and dmg wise than CD-CG-IP-Cull ,mind that EP is not up every now and than and we have to deal with lots and fast single target swaps.

All in all ,i like how they casted OS useless in most fights and prefered on few add waves that appear.Nerf for 4ticksOS is not needed it was just the mechanics being too much stationary.

 

I can imagine Lethality being good for the target swaps in Brontes. You have TD and that will definitely help in between adds when you have Cull and SoS on cooldown. I never tried Lethality for that fight though, i go MM.

Hey there, paowee. Feeling fanciful, I decided to look at your intro post, and noticed something.

 

For the full Lethality spec, this is what you have listed for the main rotation.

CG - CD - WB - Cull - TD - SoS - Cull - TD - repeat

 

I don't know if I must be doing something wrong, but that never works. I always end up with

CG - CD - WB - Cull - TD - SoS - X - Cull - TD - repeat

I always get that open global right there. I've been running Lethality for a while now (loved it pre-2.0, came back seeing Orbital changes incoming) and have since adapted it slightly.

 

Now, it looks more like:

CG - CD - WB - Cull - TD - X - SoS - Cull - TD - repeat

-X Priority

1.) Corrosive Mine (If practical, start moving immediately after Cull)

2.) Rifle Shot (If not near max energy/regens not ready)

3.) Snipe

 

Just wanted your thoughts. I can just never seem to rid myself of that global, but every time I see someone else post a Lethality rotation, it doesn't have one.

Edited October 20, 2013 by Torgru

I can just never seem to rid myself of that global, but every time I see someone else post a Lethality rotation, it doesn't have one.

 

That global's definitely there. My priority for it is the same as yours, except I use that spot to put up the armor debuff as a top priority if noone else is providing it.

That global's definitely there. My priority for it is the same as yours, except I use that spot to put up the armor debuff as a top priority if noone else is providing it.

 

Oh well yeah. That's a given. But 90% of the time, I run with a Jugg, or an arsenal merc, or some other sniper maintaining the buff. I was mostly commenting that every time I see someone else writeup the rotation, it never accounts for that global.