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this "original story" might not even mess with the current EU


lord-durpp

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The events of TFU occurred before a New Hope, 3 BBY - 1 BBY and the events of TFU 2 occur in 1 BBY. So before a New Hope all those Jedi Starkiller hunt down are dead and Rahm Kota for a time is presumed dead and never actually meets Yoda or Obi Wan. Whatsmore, there is still a year between the events of a New Hope and the end of TFU 2 and I assume in that period Rahm Kota dies and Vader escapes. As for that stuff about Starkiller visiting Yoda, for one he was a clone and secondly he could also easily, and probably most likely, have died between 1BBY and 0 BBY. I expect this will all be cleared up in TFU 3 or some other material and the Star Wars timeline will continued unpeturbed. :D

 

doesn't matter if he is a clone or not the fact that he is more powerful with the force then Vader or Skywalker should have been a huge tip off.

 

Yoda wants to destroy the sith and this guy just strolls on through with the ability to pull a Star Destroyer out of space? Even Yoda can't do that.

 

Of course then we have the opening crawl of A New Hope which invalidates anything that could be considered a victory for the rebelion.

 

 

of course we shouldn't even be having this discusion if it was done right. A good continuity shouldn't leave room for interperation.

 

Which is why I'm happy that they are relaunching the EU at least the Post ROTJ EU

Edited by jarjarloves
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doesn't matter if he is a clone or not the fact that he is more powerful with the force then Vader or Skywalker should have been a huge tip off.

 

Yoda wants to destroy the sith and this guy just strolls on through with the ability to pull a Star Destroyer out of space? Even Yoda can't do that.

 

Of course then we have the opening crawl of A New Hope which invalidates anything that could be considered a victory for the rebelion.

What did you expect Yoda to do? He can't train him as a Jedi, he's already been trained in the ways of the Force, and he can't tell him to go fight the Emperor and Darth Vader, because he already is doing that. All Yoda could do is let him follow his own path and let the Force guide him, and that's what he did. Your right about the opening crawl though, the Battle of Kamino seems to conflict with it. But hey, there must be countless conflictions in the Star Wars universe and this is a fairly minor one, after all the opening crawl is sort of an out of universe thing. The events said there can be easily altered (there is no actual dialogue in the film that validates what is said there).

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What did you expect Yoda to do? He can't train him as a Jedi, he's already been trained in the ways of the Force, and he can't tell him to go fight the Emperor and Darth Vader, because he already is doing that. All Yoda could do is let him follow his own path and let the Force guide him, and that's what he did. Your right about the opening crawl though, the Battle of Kamino seems to conflict with it. But hey, there must be countless conflictions in the Star Wars universe and this is a fairly minor one, after all the opening crawl is sort of an out of universe thing. The events said there can be easily altered (there is no actual dialogue in the film that validates what is said there).

 

well that's just it. According to Star Wars canon if anything contradicts the movies it's considered non canon.

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well that's just it. According to Star Wars canon if anything contradicts the movies it's considered non canon.

True. Non-canon is a bit far, seeing as they made Starkiller so integral to the star wars story (birth of the rebellion etc.) but I wouldn't go as far to say its G-Canon, just C-Canon

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True. Non-canon is a bit far, seeing as they made Starkiller so integral to the star wars story (birth of the rebellion etc.) but I wouldn't go as far to say its G-Canon, just C-Canon

 

but even C-canon can't contradict G-canon. This is why so many fans were pissed off when the prequels made a lot of C-canon stuff N-canon.

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this was different they even promoted it as being G-canon. It was pretty much just a sales stunt but they went around claiming this is the only official new star wars thing we will be getting.

 

even if it is C-canon it still contradicts G-canon which would make it N-canon.

 

No, they said that George Lucas endorsed it as keeping with the story of Star Wars. He didn't write it himself. He said THE EXACT SAME THING about Shadows of the Empire and The Thrawn Trilogy when they first came out. Does that make Shadows and Thrawn G-Canon as well? No. Still C-Canon.

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but even C-canon can't contradict G-canon. This is why so many fans were pissed off when the prequels made a lot of C-canon stuff N-canon.

 

List them. Here, I'll even give you a hand with a couple of them.

 

Jaster Mereel: Originally put forward as Boba Fett's "real name" in the Tales collection of short stories. When it was relegated to S-Canon by the Episode II retcon, it was no longer associated with being Fett's real name. It was kept as an alias he used in certain situations. When the character of Jaster Mereel was invented as Jango's mentor, it was an all new character, and didn't override the G-Canon retcon of Boba Fett's "real name".

 

The account of The Clone Wars in The Thrawn Trilogy: Kept as an S-Canon rumor thanks to the "Certain Point of View" logic applied to a lot of Star Wars "facts". Seen from outside, not knowing of Order 66, a lot of people would see the Clones as going insane.

 

Now, you said "A Lot of stuff." What else besides those retcons to S-CANON was retconned by the Prequels?

Edited by Captain_Zone
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List them. Here, I'll even give you a hand with a couple of them.

 

Jaster Mereel: Originally put forward as Boba Fett's "real name" in the Tales collection of short stories. When it was relegated to S-Canon by the Episode II retcon, it was no longer associated with being Fett's real name. It was kept as an alias he used in certain situations. When the character of Jaster Mereel was invented as Jango's mentor, it was an all new character, and didn't override the G-Canon retcon of Boba Fett's "real name".

 

The account of The Clone Wars in The Thrawn Trilogy: Kept as an S-Canon rumor thanks to the "Certain Point of View" logic applied to a lot of Star Wars "facts". Seen from outside, not knowing of Order 66, a lot of people would see the Clones as going insane.

 

Now, you said "A Lot of stuff." What else besides those retcons to S-CANON was retconned by the Prequels?

 

off the top of my head

 

The big one is obviuosly

 

"Anakin is meant to DESTROY the sith and bring balance to the force"

 

then we got all of Boba Fett and Jango Fetts back stories

 

The Entire bounty hunter triology is non canon due to the events during the Clone Wars

 

The Katana Fleet doesn't exist

 

Luuke Skywalker doesn't exist

 

Cloning as described in Thrawn Triology doesn't exist

 

The Nohgris meeting with Darth Vader never happens

 

again just off the top of my head.

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off the top of my head

 

The big one is obviuosly

 

"Anakin is meant to DESTROY the sith and bring balance to the force"

 

then we got all of Boba Fett and Jango Fetts back stories

 

The Entire bounty hunter triology is non canon due to the events during the Clone Wars

 

The Katana Fleet doesn't exist

 

Luuke Skywalker doesn't exist

 

Cloning as described in Thrawn Triology doesn't exist

 

The Nohgris meeting with Darth Vader never happens

 

again just off the top of my head.

 

Refer to the other thread where you listed those things. Remember TFU and how you said it was G-Canon? Prepare to eat those words.

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Why all the doom and gloom when the EU has been specifically stated by Lucas, Chee and others at LA as being in a parallel universe to the movie universe(incluing TCW tv series) for years now? Sometimes the two universes run together as in novelizations of the movies, specific characters and the like, but they are meant to not intrude on each other.

 

Any reboot,remake,or expansion of the movies Disney does, no matter how bad or good, will take place in the Movie Universe and not the EU. The sky isn't falling, EU fans, and if you are lucky Disney may elevate some of our favorite EU stories up in canon by adding them to the Movie Universe.

 

 

Just because inevitably someone will ask for a source :

 

"There are two worlds here," explained Lucas. "There’s my world, which is the movies, and there’s this other world that has been created, which I say is the parallel universe—the licensing world of the books, games and comic books. They don’t intrude on my world, which is a select period of time, [but] they do intrude in between the movies. I don’t get too involved in the parallel universe."

 

"When I said [other people] could make their own Star Wars stories, we decided that, like Star Trek, we would have two universes: My universe and then this other one. They try to make their universe as consistent with mine as possible, but obviously they get enthusiastic and want to go off in other directions."

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Why all the doom and gloom when the EU has been specifically stated by Lucas, Chee and others at LA as being in a parallel universe to the movie universe(incluing TCW tv series) for years now? Sometimes the two universes run together as in novelizations of the movies, specific characters and the like, but they are meant to not intrude on each other.

 

Any reboot,remake,or expansion of the movies Disney does, no matter how bad or good, will take place in the Movie Universe and not the EU. The sky isn't falling, EU fans, and if you are lucky Disney may elevate some of our favorite EU stories up in canon by adding them to the Movie Universe.

 

 

Just because inevitably someone will ask for a source :

 

"There are two worlds here," explained Lucas. "There’s my world, which is the movies, and there’s this other world that has been created, which I say is the parallel universe—the licensing world of the books, games and comic books. They don’t intrude on my world, which is a select period of time, [but] they do intrude in between the movies. I don’t get too involved in the parallel universe."

 

"When I said [other people] could make their own Star Wars stories, we decided that, like Star Trek, we would have two universes: My universe and then this other one. They try to make their universe as consistent with mine as possible, but obviously they get enthusiastic and want to go off in other directions."

 

He also stated that he tries not to interfere in their universe.

 

The Universes:

OT/PT/TCW is George's realm alone.

OT/PT/ExU is the Films + Expanded Universe overlap.

OT/PT/Disney is probably the new one that was just created when Disney bought out Lucas.

 

My point is that having two universes.... well, three now, technically, isn't necessarily a bad thing. We'll have to wait and see how Leland Chee redoes the Canon system to fit, though. So far, the universes have overlapped to a certain degree. With George Lucas even giving his endorsement for several Expanded Universe projects that took place between movies and after RotJ. He's tried to distance himself from it lately, though. Can't say I blame him after the whole "Starwars Ball Z" debacle the latest ExU novels have turned into.

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ummm except they don't. We know that they dont

 

They do and you know it. Last reply to you, here. Your constant arguing with everything anyone says that doesn't fit your narrow view of what "Canon" should be is just too much. You start arguments for the sake of arguments, and I've had it. In case you don't know yet, you are now going on my Ignore list, and you're staying there. I for one have had enough of your amateur hour "Canon debates". You never post anything to back up what you say to the extent that you actually prove anything.

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They do and you know it. Last reply to you, here. Your constant arguing with everything anyone says that doesn't fit your narrow view of what "Canon" should be is just too much. You start arguments for the sake of arguments, and I've had it. In case you don't know yet, you are now going on my Ignore list, and you're staying there. I for one have had enough of your amateur hour "Canon debates". You never post anything to back up what you say to the extent that you actually prove anything.

 

umm I did post things to back up all my arguements. It's not my fault you haven't read the Thrawn Trilogy.

 

The cloning procses used in the thrawn trilogy needs islamri to keep the force away. They are also able to grow fully grown clones inside of 20 days.

 

In ATOC we learn they clone them to the age of kids and then use accelerated growth techinics to train them and they grow up to full clone soldiers.

 

In Thrawn they keep them in the tubes until they are mature.

 

So you finnally realized how wrong you are and have decided to just put me on ignore. That's fine with me you always were bad at debating over lore and canon.

 

Concession accepted.

 

I just had a vision of Captain_ZOne twtiching like Sheldon and then his head exploding due to the fact he can't admit he has been wrong all this time.

Edited by jarjarloves
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umm I did post things to back up all my arguements. It's not my fault you haven't read the Thrawn Trilogy.

 

The cloning procses used in the thrawn trilogy needs islamri to keep the force away. They are also able to grow fully grown clones inside of 20 days.

 

In ATOC we learn they clone them to the age of kids and then use accelerated growth techinics to train them and they grow up to full clone soldiers.

 

In Thrawn they keep them in the tubes until they are mature.

 

So you finnally realized how wrong you are and have decided to just put me on ignore. That's fine with me you always were bad at debating over lore and canon.

 

Concession accepted.

 

I just had a vision of Captain_ZOne twtiching like Sheldon and then his head exploding due to the fact he can't admit he has been wrong all this time.

 

I concede nothing to you, besides the fact that since I just looked it up, the cloning process is slightly different. I was wrong about the cloning process, due to not having read the series in quite a while. So what? Doesn't change the fact that there could be other cloning processes out there that you didn't know about. Your rigid view of "It's the only one, there can't be any others" is inherently flawed and wrong. Why don't you get that?

 

I saw your reply on the "Does George still have any say in what Disney does" thread and that actually gave me a lot of insight into your way of thinking. Do you know for a fact that he didn't put a clause in the contract that gives him limited creative input or oversight? No. Unless you are in fact George Lucas or the CEO of Disney, you do not. Leland Chee, on the other hand, knows how to make puzzle pieces fit when the puzzle itself changes. He allows for other points of view besides the POV of the characters involved in the story itself. Seriously, dude. Just stop before you make an even bigger fool of yourself.

 

Now, you can stop replying. You are officially /ignored.

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I concede nothing to you, besides the fact that since I just looked it up, the cloning process is slightly different. I was wrong about the cloning process, due to not having read the series in quite a while. So what? Doesn't change the fact that there could be other cloning processes out there that you didn't know about. Your rigid view of "It's the only one, there can't be any others" is inherently flawed and wrong. Why don't you get that?

 

I saw your reply on the "Does George still have any say in what Disney does" thread and that actually gave me a lot of insight into your way of thinking. Do you know for a fact that he didn't put a clause in the contract that gives him limited creative input or oversight? No. Unless you are in fact George Lucas or the CEO of Disney, you do not. Leland Chee, on the other hand, knows how to make puzzle pieces fit when the puzzle itself changes. He allows for other points of view besides the POV of the characters involved in the story itself. Seriously, dude. Just stop before you make an even bigger fool of yourself.

 

Now, you can stop replying. You are officially /ignored.

oh so once again I'm right except this time you are finally admitting you are wrong. You are trying to make rationals out of things that aren't canon.

 

Especially when the cloning processes that Thrawn uses is supposed to be the same one used during the clone wars. I'm starting to think you NEVER read the Thrawn trilogy as you get basic things wrong. As for the Nohgri like I said before there was a battle. AFTER THE BATTLE Darth Vader came down and offfered the EMPERORS help to them.

 

Now you have to remember the frame of refernce. When this was written all we had was the original trilogy. So all we had was "Anakin fought in the clone wars." and "Darth vader betrayed and joined the Emperor and hunted down the Jedi"

So we have a betrayl by Anakin and him joining the Emperor. Remember we had no idea what the Clone wars were at this time. Not even Lucas really knew. That is why the common thought was the Clone wars were about the Jedi vs the Emperor and his clones. This is evident from reading the Thrawn Trilogy and other sources.

 

This is why in the Thrawn Trilogy it is stated that the Nohgri are met by Darth Vader and the Emperor after a battle during the clone wars.

 

Time and time again I have proved you wrong and you just get all mr grumpy pants because you really have no idea whats going on in Star Wars.

 

I hope you appreciate these lessons as I school you in Star Wars lore.

 

 

concession accepted.

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I'm personally hoping that they use it as an oppurtunity to get rid of some of the more outlandish aspects of the EU, eg, the Emperor clones, people tossing around fleets, etc.

 

The Emperor Clones were actually allowed and endorsed by George Lucas. Dark Empire was one of the best series out there, and the Clones were all destroyed by the time Empire's End was finished.

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oh so once again I'm right except this time you are finally admitting you are wrong. You are trying to make rationals out of things that aren't canon.

 

Especially when the cloning processes that Thrawn uses is supposed to be the same one used during the clone wars. I'm starting to think you NEVER read the Thrawn trilogy as you get basic things wrong. As for the Nohgri like I said before there was a battle. AFTER THE BATTLE Darth Vader came down and offfered the EMPERORS help to them.

 

Now you have to remember the frame of refernce. When this was written all we had was the original trilogy. So all we had was "Anakin fought in the clone wars." and "Darth vader betrayed and joined the Emperor and hunted down the Jedi"

So we have a betrayl by Anakin and him joining the Emperor. Remember we had no idea what the Clone wars were at this time. Not even Lucas really knew. That is why the common thought was the Clone wars were about the Jedi vs the Emperor and his clones. This is evident from reading the Thrawn Trilogy and other sources.

 

This is why in the Thrawn Trilogy it is stated that the Nohgri are met by Darth Vader and the Emperor after a battle during the clone wars.

 

Time and time again I have proved you wrong and you just get all mr grumpy pants because you really have no idea whats going on in Star Wars.

 

I hope you appreciate these lessons as I school you in Star Wars lore.

 

 

concession accepted.

 

Get over yourself. As many times as I've proved you wrong and you STILL won't admit to any of them, I've schooled you WAY more than you think you've schooled me. A very wise man once said "Never argue with an idiot. They'll drag you down to their level and beat you with experience." Time for me to take that advice and stop arguing with you. My worst assumption was that you weren't one. You take George's word and twist it around. YOU decide what George means and what he doesn't. YOU refuse to see COMMON SENSE when it's right in front of your face. I read the Thrawn Trilogy last about 10 years ago. Do YOU remember everything you read 10 years ago? If so, good for you. I am conceding NOTHING to you, dude. I'm just sick of your attitude and you saying "I know what George means and what he doesn't mean". Seriously STOP THINKING YOU'RE GEORGE LUCAS! That's how you come across!

Edited by Captain_Zone
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Why all the doom and gloom when the EU has been specifically stated by Lucas, Chee and others at LA as being in a parallel universe to the movie universe(incluing TCW tv series) for years now? Sometimes the two universes run together as in novelizations of the movies, specific characters and the like, but they are meant to not intrude on each other.

 

The EU has always been my favorite part of Star Wars. For me, I feel like doom is in the air because I'm worried that Disney might do away with the EU entirely. They might yank the novels and comics and video games off the shelves so that, if we want more Star Wars, we will be forced to read about their EU.

 

Or that they might try to buy up and destroy books and such from the current EU so that, if they don't completely replace it with theirs, they can make more money by re-releasing them with Disney's logo on them. I hear that's what they did with the original Tron--destroyed all the copies they could get their hands on so they could re-release it and make it cost more.

 

I realize that I am overreacting, being irrational, and probably vastly exaggerating the lengths Disney will go to in order to make money. But there's a part of me that has Thrawn and Lieutenant Kettch in a death grip, screaming "NOOOOOO!! SOMEBODY WAKE ME UP FROM THIS HORRIBLE NIGHTMARE!!!"

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The Emperor Clones were actually allowed and endorsed by George Lucas. Dark Empire was one of the best series out there, and the Clones were all destroyed by the time Empire's End was finished.

 

Yes he allowed that. Then later says this never happens at all lol...his said before that none of the post-rotj EU is in his vision of what wouldve happened..

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Yes he allowed that. Then later says this never happens at all lol...his said before that none of the post-rotj EU is in his vision of what wouldve happened..

 

Yeah, if you take that quote of him saying "It's not how I would have done it" out of context, then you would also have to say that the entire post-RotJ Expanded Universe isn't Canon. It was his point of view on what he would have done if he had written anything after Episode VI. In that same interview, he said that his story was finished when Episode VI ended. Now, Leland Chee has already stated that post-RotJ Expanded Universe material IS C-Canon. When Leland Chee was explaining C-Canon, he said it was the vision of LucasArts and the authors therein that went beyond George's vision. Leland Chee isn't going to go over his boss's head on that, if he values his job. George also said that the storyline in The Force Unleashed and TFU II are G-Canon. Contradictory statements there, considering that the Cloning Process in TFU is exactly the same as the cloning process in the Thrawn Trilogy. Coruscant was named in post-RotJ C-Canon, as well. It became G-Canon when George used the name in the Prequels. The list goes on and on. The point is that you can't take everything George says seriously. That way lies madness.

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