1) Lightning doesn't have a Force issue because of 3 things:

-Electric Induction: Reduces force cost of everything by 9% (with 3 points)

-Subversion: Increases force regen by 30% while using our filler move

-Lightning Effusion: Reduces the cost of the next 2 attacks by 75% when an attack crits (and we have an autocrit every 11 seconds )

Just in case you were wondering.

2) I would like a free heal

3) Doesn't Serendipitous Assault benefit healers as well? Although bringing back Ephemeral Mending would be a nice thing, that isn't really a Sorc issue.

 

I think Conspiring Force is a PvP thing, and Lightning already has a slow. As for Reserves, I don't really see that it matters too much where they put it since each class takes it anyways.

• YES! We all know WHY Lightning SPEC doesn't use so much Force. Question is WHY don't the other spec's have same setup?
  
• Free Heal to be CAST on someone else is the question. We all got a great free self heal and hamster ball.
  
• YES. SA does benefit ALL Classes and that's why I put "Cross Class" in the BOLD WHITE. The relic needs a rework or healing version really made for all healing classes.
  
• Reserves has no place in Lightning tree if it's not needed by that spec. Beef it up and move it.
  

I read the cross class part, it still doesn't change my point though. And a beefed up Reserves would be interesting/fun...

Since I'm lightning and therefore have no regen issues, there isn't really a point for me to know the force cost of anything, so would it work if they just made Resurgence the free heal or would that be too OP?

Second idea, while in Force Barrier, you would regenerate Force at a faster rate.

I read the cross class part, it still doesn't change my point though. And a beefed up Reserves would be interesting/fun...

 

Since I'm lightning and therefore have no regen issues, there isn't really a point for me to know the force cost of anything, so would it work if they just made Resurgence the free heal or would that be too OP?

 

Second idea, while in Force Barrier, you would regenerate Force at a faster rate.

We have three questions. PVE / PVP / OTHER - can be used as an OTHER, but as it's a "Healing" and we have 2/3 DPS in this class it's a "Maybe" for others as the third question to go forward. OPTIONS are just being presented.

I think it would be great if Resurgence was a FREE Cast and no force used. Plus keeps it's CD and Heals the same, but I think it's more likely to increase the time Force Bend is up (maybe even STACK it) or decrease cost / CD.

Maybe FB w/regen (not used a LOT), but even better would be STATIC BUBBLE provides REGEN too and maybe even HEALS others the same amount we get when bubbled? (Might be nice for a slow heal on the Tank)

Valor Rank 100 Balance Sage chiming in here. Balance was the spec I use 99% of the time since launch, but I'm very proficient at the Seer and Telekinetics trees which also lends perspective. I like how pressing Balance issues are being mentioned and hopefully we can make some progress here. Also, I will try to use cross-faction skill names as much as I can but its a lot of extra typing. I also apologize for writing a very long post, but I wanted to get my ideas across as clearly and thoroughly as possible. I will include a TL;DR for the time-constrained:

TL;DR

I agree Balance/Madness needs force management help. To help force management issues, do at least one of the following, in descending order of personal preference

1. Disturbance on hit now returns 5% of your maximum force per periodic damage effect on target, and removes all periodic damage effects from target.

2. Force in Balance/Death Field procs cause dot ticks to return force as Psirebral suggested

3. Halve cost of Project

In regards to burst, all that needs to happen is make Force Potency guarantee a 100% chance to crit.

For Arenas, bring back instant Force Lift or we're screwed.

1. Balance Force Management

While having Death Field/Force in Balance charges restore a fixed % per dot tick would help, I would like to suggest an alternative which deals with the real underlying reason why we seem to lose force so fast in Balance/Madness in PvP, which is...

Madness is only barely force positive or neutral when performing the standard rotation (weaken mind/affliction -> FIB/DF -> SF/CT -> TT/FL until PoM/Wrath proc -> MC/CD etc. etc.) The moment you you step outside this rotation for any reason you become extremely force negative and the only way to get that force back while remaining productive is spamming TT/ FL as much as possible for max recovery, or doing the main rotation for really slow recovery, or somewhere in between for slow recovery. Or you pray that you get out of combat quickly (which will never happen).

When do we have to step out of rotation in PvP?

1. To defensively kite against enemy DPS (mostly melee). Kiting against a good player will almost always be force negative as it requires use of overlapping Sever Force/Creeping Terror for maximum control, Project/Shock while running away to maintain DPS (and Project is so dismally expensive for what you get...in PvE its worthwhile vs. normal mobs because of stun but I'm digressing), clipped or interrupted TT/FLs, and reapplication of Force Armor (which I will get to later on because I have something very important to say about Force Armor). Thankfully Force Slow is cheap, knockbacks and Force Mend are free or we'd really screwed.

2. When target dies before your rotation recycles. This means that 90+ Force you spent on casting three dots is partially wasted and/or the 24 Force you spent on TT/FL is overkill because the target died on the first tick of TT/FL and thus you don't get the full 4% force back.

3. Trying to "burst" down a target at ~3-5% with Project/Mind Crush/FIB. Some might think using these skills for this purpose is insane, but it is an absolute necessity when taking down a healer because if you don't kill that healer within 1 GCD you can be damn well sure in the second GCD he'll have healed up out of kill range. You can't rely on using TT/FL for that last 3% because it only hits for ~700 damage +/- 300 damage depending on conditions. Too variable and probably not enough damage. Experienced Sorcs/Sages encounter this situation at least once or twice a WZ.

4. Casting Force Armor on allies. This is single fastest way to go Force bankrupt, but in my opinion Force Armor is the single most powerful Sage/Sorc ability in the game. Especially for Balance/Madness. Force Armor protects ~5000HP guaranteed when cast by a full Conqueror Balance Sage and takes only 1 GCD to cast. The only move that Balance Sages have that has that same kind of productivity in 1 GCD is a crit FIB/DF (and a crit is never guaranteed now even with Force Potency/Recklessness). If you think of PvP as a damage vs. healing game Force Armor can't be beat.

I don't expect #4 to get any buffs re: force management because its purely bonus and any more would knock Balance into OP territory. But I think we can get help for #1-3. I'm not asking for buffs in all three, but at least one will help:

#1 and #3. Halve cost of Project. 45 force for 2200 kinetic (read: crap) damage with no special effects in PvP is a sad joke. Even with Upheaval (which I don't expect any proper Balance/Madness player to spend 3 points in anymore) its not a good deal. 20-22 force is reasonable given that Force Slow costs 15 Force (75% of the cost), does about 60% of the damage Project does AND also has a clutch slow effect. This will allow us to more freely use Project for mobile DPS which Balance/Madness is regularly referred to being "good" at (but lets be honest, what we really mean is in comparison to the Lightning tree which has almost 0 mobile DPS), and also for "burst" (but lets be honest 2200 kinetic damage doesn't really qualify as burst...its just that our other burst options outside of a lucky FIB/DF are just that bad). This also helps alleviate Force management issues with kiting (#1).

#2. Disturbance/Lightning Strike on hit now returns 5% of your maximum force per periodic damage effect on target, and removes all periodic damage effects from target.

(OPTIONAL) Chance of triggering Presence of Mind/Wrath increased to 40%, up from 30%.

You might ask "Why Disturbance/Lightning Strike?" Well since launch the devs have been trying to cram Disturbance/Lightning Strike down our throats for some reason. PoM/Wrath worked on Disturbance/LS since launch even though it was mathematically proven that saving your procs for MC/CD was superior. And now Disturbance procs an alacrity buff and rippling force, but its still pointless to use Disturbance in PvP 99% of the time. PvE you might make a case for it to be in your rotation now but its force negative. With this buff, we'll have a real reason to use Disturbance/LS. Devs happy!

With this, you'll get a maximum of 15% force returned (assuming you have all three dots on target, and 600 force pool, that's 90 force for a net 50 force gain). You will note however that this is not a straight buff - you lose any remaining dot ticks on the target which means you're trading the DPS of your dot ticks for immediate force gain, which is a choice I think players should make. And if you want it guaranteed and right now, you'll have to use a PoM/Wrath proc for it, which might cut into your MC/CD usage (which is why I suggest a small bump to the proc chance to compensate to make it not too punishing). Note that for maximum benefit you'll want to wait until your dots are as close to expiring as possible so that you get your "moneys worth" from your dots in terms of damage and cost. Of course the choice is yours depending on the situation.

While this effect can be used any time, this will really help the scenario when you have very recently casted a full set of dots on a target that is suddenly likely to die. Get your force back.

Balance/Madness Burst

I know I'm going to get a lot of heat for suggesting this, but only one change needed: Make Force Potency/Recklessness guarantee a 100% chance to crit, or at least increase the crit chance boost from 60% to 70% to compensate for the global crit chance nerf. Using Recklessness only to have your next Death Field NOT crit anyway is quite possibly the most pointless occurrence in the game. We all know and the devs know that FP/Recklessness was originally designed for an auto crit at max level since launch - bring it back.

I honestly feel burst in Balance is fine. Is it bad compared to many other DPS? Yes, Lightning, Smashers, Snipers, Pyros destroy our burst. But do we have enough? My answer is a tentative yes. Every 1.5 minutes we (should...but currently dont) get a guaranteed 5k internal damage AoE crit that hits around corners at 30m with no advance setup required. If you're playing rateds you coordinate with the rest of your DPS to line your Force Potency/Recklessness charges with other DPS burst phases. Don't get me wrong, I know our burst is not a game changer like Smash spec or even Engineering Snipers, but if you're grouped with said smasher(s) and snipers, your 5k FIB/DF is very very strong when added.

I very strongly doubt devs will give us more burst as they probably believe our overall DPS is in the right spot (and I'm inclined to agree - whether or not other classes need a downward adjustment is a different story though). The only way we'd get more burst is if we lose sustained DPS - but then whats the point; you might as well roll Lightning spec if you want to play a bursty class so bad.

Lastly,

Sages/Sorcs (and only Sages/Sorcs, not Shadows/Assassins) need instant cast Force Lift/Whirlwind back. It was a defining reason to even use the Balance/Madness tree since launch. We all know insta-cast was removed because of Hybrid Shadows/Assassins that had 4 instant CCs and a bunch other control, which was way too much. Not because Balance/Madness Sages/Sorcs specifically had too much CC.

Also if we step into arenas we'll probably be the first target...maybe second to a healer. Instant Lift is needed for even a chance of surviving.

Thanks for staying with me this far if you made it.

Some things pointed out I support

- DF gives back force (tied to DoTs)

- Free tiny heal. Just rework Dark Heal to be like Scan/Shots, I know it kinda screws up the 'unique' feel but Sorcs could defo use a tiny top up heal with no cd, Resurgence is good but does not replace this. And nobody uses Dark Heal too much anyway, it's an oh-**** button used maybe once or twice per Op and a interrupt magnet or 'stay above 30%' heal in PvP.

- Instant CC in Madness tree. No reason to take away, none at all. I dunno if Mercs lost it too but they should not have.

Just wanted to jump in here regarding fireswraiths post. I understand what our job is but as you can see in my first post in the blue and red letters are the concerns and just possible ways of fixing. As we don't know exactly how the information will be taken when it gets to Bioware, don't you think it might be a good idea to also give them suggestions? I for one am liking some of these suggestions/concerns and I've even had non-sage/sorcerers chime in to me personally with good ideas.

Long story short is when you get people and their creative juices flowing you get some fantastic results, add that too the collaboration between me and Nibbon in addition to the community as a whole, I think we can get these concerns smoothed out quickly and sent off to BW. We still have plenty of time so don't stress too much about what our concerns will be either.

Anyway lets continue this civility. Thanks.

psi ive brought this up in posts with u before but i feel force barrier could be looked at

as is, its not being used quite as bioware assumed it would be, that is to help sorcs survive burst.. it does that sometimes but generally not... especially at a 3 minute cooldown

IN ORDER these are what i use force barrier for the most

1.) extra trinket/ cc break

2.) a deterent from being attacked

3.) to keep from capping a turret

4.) to avoid a burst rotation i'd otherwise eat, or a smash lol

and the worst reason of all

5.) to survive against multiple foes

-why is this the worse reason? becuase most situations liek this, your team has wiped or you were in the wrong place at the wrong time. Unless your team catches up and peels the other thing that will happen is that force barrier will end, and you still will die.. and have wasted 10s of your own time. honestly it could be better to just die, res and get back on an objective

I CANNOT REMEMBER the last time i let FB channel for its duration...

usually... theres not point.. for the same reasons of my 1-4 top uses

so i suggest an added incentive tied deep in each trees talents for us to use this ability more wisely or for its purpose

corruption (healing) - while channeling FB, the sorc emits a medium aoe heal every second and at the COMPLETE full duration of FB the a stronger aoe heal for about hte 4-k range. the range could be around 10 yards. this allows a healing sorc.. in trying to avoid death.. still be able to assist the team... 10seconds of downtime as a healer will get all your dps killed most likely

lightning- basically the dps version of corruptions, whi;le channeling FB the sorc emits a medium strength aoe lighting field hitting up to 4 enemies within 10 yards for about 500 dmg every second and at the COMPLETE duration of the FB affect a either a larger aoe burst around the 4k range or possible a blind.knockback with small dmg

madness - While channeling FB the sorc regenerates FORCE, YES SWEET FORCE, adding up to 500 force over a full 10second duration , and at the COMPLETE channeling of FB , up to 4 enemies wilithin 10 yarders will be affliction with creeping terror

at first every whine bag would say this would be OP

but remember, FB is a THREE MINUTE cooldown which is an eternity in PvP

While using FB the sorc (unless holding off a node) is being COMPLETELY USELESS TO HIS TEAM/OBJECTIVES

for the heal affect allies need o be close

and for the dps aoe affect enemies would just need ot step out of range, like orbital strike

this certainly will not fix our class, but could be a great start

only speaking about pvp

sorcs feel incomplete because they are missing a lot of abilities for each spec that would really help round them out. anyone who's played wow will know what i mean, especially with arenas around the corner.

Corruption:

- need some sort of binding heal, where the sorc and target are healed a medium amount with a 1.5 cast time

- need a pain suppression/damage reduction cd that can be cast on self or friendly

Lightning

- needs a blink/teleport on a moderate cd

- a cd which allows spells to be cast while moving

Madness

- a new dot which offers dispel protection ala Unstable Affliction. If someone dispels it, they are silenced/take a lot of damage

- a drain life spell so that they can tap for force and then recover life more quickly

All specs would also benefit from some type of aura such as the priest's inner fire and inner will. One increases armor, the other increases movement speed. Insert any other ideas you wish.

I know people will flame me or say go play wow, but seriously...if you pvp at a high level, or even moderate level, then you know these abilities would help a lot for each spec.

What I really want is ride the lightning from GW2 incorporated for lightning sorcs so make that happen kthx

In regards to survivability, BioWare should reexamine static barrier. Currently, it only absorbs a moderate amount and its lockout is such that you essentially always have it up. It has therefore no strategic value to when it is used and is essentially a check if you remembered to press the activation key or not.

If the amount of damage it absorbed were greatly increased along with the length of the lockout, then it would have some strategic significance and add a unique element to sorcerer play style. Instead of just always having static barrier up, you would have to chose when to activate it so you aren't trapped by the lockout, such as times when you are being focused or pull aggro. The benefit would be that instead of absorbing a single attack, static barrier would feel more useful. The ability should be designed such that an attacker should sense some risk when attacking a sorcerer with barrier up instead of just ignoring it as they currently do.

Figured I'd drop a message and post my feelings.

Before I start figured I'd mention I've cleared every boss to date and to date I am the only sorc/sage to have killed NM Stryak (8man)

Madness- PvE

My personal issues/gripes

1. Lackluster damage unless we have cooldowns, becomes more apparent during burn phases that last < 12-15 seconds or when a boss drops below 30%.

2. DoT time is horrendous 18 seconds for 4400 (aff), 5200 (ct) isn't great on the majority of boss fights. Majority of the NM styrak fight is timed based and is extremely awkward for a sorc/sage to get into rhythm without overlapping DoT timers to maximize DoT uptop without losing DPS. If you've ran the fight on NM or watched footage you'd see what I'm referring to. On flip side boss fights like olok (p2), TWH, TFB, operator, warlords you are able to DoT multiple targets and it be real damage and not a fluff parse for epeen. I suppose thats the trade off.

3. AoE damage is subpar. Force storm needs a buff a crit hits for 1100 and DF hits for 3400 (5 targets.) It becomes real apparent who kills adds on fights like dash'rode and Titan 6 when you have an Orbital strike, Force Storm/DF, Death from above, and so on. Yes I know OS is a minute CD and Force Storm has no cooldown. Adds are dead before you get your second FS off or another DF. Also if you DF one of the adds you lose the DoT % bonus on the main target. OS = 4.5K a tick, FS = 1100 CRIT, unsure on DFA.

4. No execute Its real apparent on TFB tentacles when your side is up 15% and you get to 30% and you are behind now what's going on and why. Also the tentacle add phase when you have to kill it in a 8-12 second window (far side not close spawn) you literally do nothing compared to other range classes (Force lighting spam + wrath proc + pray for another proc or shock )

5. Set bonus is subpar needs to be the assassin dps pvp set bonus. Compare our dps gain to a mara dps gain from set bonus alone and its alarming.

Good things we do

Mobility - Force speed saves my bacon weekly.

Self heal- Personally feel this needs a nerf (I can do 400-500 HPS on majority of fights using this off CD/dots/df.

Force Barrier - Cool for avoiding mechanics/wiping aggro. TFB tentacle (doesn't compare to carnage mara afk during slam ) is nice to have for at least three slams. DG tricks, kephess tricks, etc. CD seems high but is needed for PvP.

Pull - Personally don't use as much as I used to back in NM EC still has its place and can potentially cover ones mistake

Bubble- I don't usually raid with a sorc healer, so its nice for tanks on DMG intensive situations IE= kephess slam, olok (p2) kiting, Thrasher sniper phases, etc....

Off-Heal - Other classes have this, our first NM stryak kill I landed a 10K heal with a tank at 3% and it may have saved us from a wipe. Obviously extremely situational and have to trust other dps in group.

I'm going to disagree with the majority of you on the force issue. If I run into an issue I've done something wrong somewhere or did not keep 4 stacks of focal lighting up or got unlucky with set bonus affliction procs.

Majority of time I'm sitting at 6% of free alacrity then with set bonus procs/Polarity shift if I doof its easy to recover.

On that same note I do wish we had the force pool lighting/tk sorc/sages have where they can just afk press buttons and not lose force.

I agree with majority of PvP stuff some seems like a l2p issue but do need changes

EDIT: grats psi even though you talked **** to me in a WZ for no apparent reason

Hi all, i do not post very often, as lets face it, the majority of posts in the forums tend to be QQ threads about nerf this buff that and tend to add very little to the community in terms of constructive feedback or discussions so im delighted BW have introduced these new representatives.

Ive played Sorc, aswell as Jug since Open beta so have been through the ups and downs for both and as Psire has said, currently i believe Sorcs are in the best position as a class since release, Although the points raised are probably the most standout problems that still remain.

So, First on the list,

Madness Force Regen

Reguardless of the 2.0 change to alacrity and resource regen component, you still burn through more force than you regain per point of alacrity, mainly because of the varying costs of different abilities so while the change isnt a bad thing, its certainly not helped madness in terms of management.

I really like the idea of attaching a +force regen to Deathfield stacks, and honestly i think 0.5% / 0.75% per stack consumed is a fair number, thats 3 force per stack or 45/68 per full deathfield. PER TARGET, 5 targets with deathfield stacks and affliction up, thats a hell of a lot of force

2% as someone suggested is way too much, 30% force regen ( 180) every 15 seconds, on top of the 8 passive force regen +alacrity per second, thats a whopping 300+ ( OVER 50% FORCE) regained every 15seconds, not to mention the 1% per FL tick, your gonna be gaining more force back than you can spend once your dots are up.

Currently Madness in 1-2 target combat doesnt have much of a force problem at all in PVE, but it does in PVP with the more movement, the chance of having FL interupted and not getting the full 4% regen, the more dot spreading to maximize pressure on healers with multiple targets taking steady dmg, self healing etc, so this small change i think would be more than enough to solve any Force Issues.

2nd on the List

Madness Burst

Now i tend to agree with Nibbon on this one, madness can do some pretty nasty burst with polarity shift up and good use of recklessness. Granted its not "Burst on demand" so to say, since it requires CDs to be available so i will tie my suggestion into another point raised which is AN EXECUTE.

Now Madness pre 2.0 had a sort of execute in the form of chainshock.

Shock has a 6sec CD the same as other class executes and costs slightly more than other abilities and its instant cast, but ive noticed that shock hasnt seemed to have scaled all that well with the level increase so even if you take the skillpoints a proc wont do that much more dmg than an instant Lightning strike.

So..... to my idea. Change chainshock completely to a 2 Skill point to where Shock deals 50/100% more dmg to targets below 30% health.

Ok Next point, which is:

Lightning Mobility.

This is my Spec of choice right now and it is very much a turret. Not gonna get long winded, its a casting spec, lots of casts, very little cast protection.

Now, im gonna bring up the Dreaded World of warcraft comparison here, but hey, lets face it, Lightning spec is basically the Elemental shaman without totems, and the had the exact same problem, lots of casting stood still. (and any ex wow players, "chain lightning, flame shock+ lavaburst autocrit lots of lightning bolt spam" ring any bells ? :)

Well they Fixed this issue with glyphs making lightning bolt able to be cast whilst moving and pretty much overnight this turned ele shamans into demons.

Now, my idea isnt Quite so Overpowered.

Currently we get 35/70% cast protection on most of rotation, i think this should be increased to 50/100%. This would be a huge difference in QoL, while at the same time not being over powered since we can still be interupted, we just dont lose casting time when taking damage,

My second idea is kind of across the board change but will be of most benefit to Lightning because of the reduced CD time.

PolarityShift is a great CD, but lets make it 1 step better and allow all skills to be able to be cast on the move whilst PS is active,

this would be a great addition to lightning in PvP meaning you can still do decent dmg for a short period of time while kiting, or on the reverse, chasing down that pesky healer trying to get out of range/LoS, And im sure sorc healers would love abit more mobility in healing.

Ok and finally Healing.

Now here i think im going to have to dissagree with Nibbon on something, though bare in mind i am mainly 8man content so perhaps it performs differently in a 16man setting, but i think Sorcs are mainly a single target tank healer, with a very powerful, but situational Aoe heal. Amazing if u can get 8 targets to stand in it for the duration but definitely not as flexible as the merc/Oper aoe. Resurgence has the armour buff attached to it which screams out tank healer coupled with innervate and static barrier ( sorry for the WoW reference again ) but Discipline priest?

I definately wouldnt describe us as a HoT healer, since you can only have 2 resurgences up at a time ( well 3 for a couple of seconds) and ive never really considered channels heals as HoTs but maybe thats just personal definitions, its still a single target heal and sorc seems to be designed mainly as a single target healer ( focusing 1 target at a time). So i think they should expand abit on that.

Static barrier is by far our most flexible heal, instant cast, premeditated heal for a fixed amount and lasts 30seconds, so my suggestion would be to add a mechanic to innervate, like, "reduces deionized debuff by 1 second per tick.

This would be great for both tank healing in PvE, and for a target being focused in PvP allowing more barriers more regularly while at the same time not being overpowered since you would be still limited to barrier every 9-10 seconds and only on the target you have been healing.

My second suggestion is to Dark heal, by far the most useless heal in game in my view and has been badly changed a couple of times since release. Take kolto infusion for example, pre 2.0 it was a waste of space, but now with the new change its probably the best, most efficient heal in game for the amount of resource it costs, its cast time and its base heal ( heal before crits )

The change i would like to see would be, and which will be great in both PvE and PvP because it deals with another mechanic of sorc healing which is consumption, is if dark heal healed "you" + the target for X amount.

DoT Protection for Madness

And finally finally, something that i dont think has been mentioned but has bothered me for quite a while is some form of DoT protection for Madness. Now i know there is some limited protection for a few seconds by casting force slow aswell since only 2 dots can be cleansed at once, but having Creeping terror cleansed is a real pain with is fairly long CD and healers can cleanse to their hearts content with no downside, Lethality has DoT protection in the form of the secondary DoT ( cant remember the name right now) and they are very powerful in 2.0 so why cant madness?

But my idea is something abit different and would be specific to madness,

IF creeping terror is cleansed, the remaining damage of the DoT is done instantly and is subjected to a Crit roll, so for example, say your CT does 4k damage over the 18secs and is cleansed after 9 seconds, the target would take 2k dmg instantly , or 4k ish Crit ( depending on your surge)

Sorry for the big wall'o'text, and not used to posting so sorry again for the lack of quotes/fancy colours

Feel free to discuss/agree/disagree/call me a fool etc, but they are just my ideas

Celestiros

EDIT: just remember something else thats bothered me for ages.

RECKLESSNESS for a 90sec CD is really quite rubbish when you think about how it actually works. for starters is only 60% crit change with 2 charges, thats not even 2 definite Crits every 90secs on demand, AND to add insult to injury, Procs such as chainshock, the second attack from TB and LS consume a charge, ASWELL as AoE attacks consuming both charges if it hits more than 1 target and doesnt crit on all targets hit

This in my view needs to be changed to 100% crit for 2 separate attacks/heals reguardless of procs. definitely Not overpowered when you compare it to other DPS cooldowns,

I've seen a lot of great (and not so great) ideas pop up, so I wanted to highlight some that I particularly like in short format so it doesn't get too lost in space like my first post probably did.

edit: sorted list from highest priority to lowest. Double edit, inserted proof shots of regen "bug" and included a new higher priority list item.

• Let's just tie the execute to project - have it do 100% additional damage on targets below 30% health - I think this would fix the vast majority of issues people have with this class in both PvE and PvP. It would also make project a lot more useful, rather than just "when we are on the move, can't stop, and have used all our other free casts."
  
• I'd like to point out a bug as well - this needs to be fixed to help with force regen - currently the alacrity skill in the heal tree does not increase force regen, it only lowers cast time - obviously this hurts our force overall quite a bit in all specs (particularly heal and balance/madness)
  edit: including some pictures to help explain: http://i.imgur.com/ObIK99p.png
  http://i.imgur.com/tDP8cfU.png
  extra 2% on alacrity (causing faster casting) but not boosting force regen
  
• Dot protection would be great for PvP and not effect PvE at all, so I think it should be added in some form.
  
• I feel like Balance AoE is extremely weak - and not to mention can really burn away force. Would love for forcequake to be more worthwhile to cast - right now I think it is more worthwhile to spam TT on one target than cast forcequake on 3 targets.
  
• A new free heal for heal spec - again, my personal preference is to tie it to life saving - so only usable on targets with 30% health or less
  
• Recklnessness gives 100% chance crit - it is a very small change that would make me happy.
  
• If people really think madness/balance needs a force buff - the best idea I've seen so far is tying it to disturbance/lightning strike - I think that making it a free cast would do the trick, since you are basically gaining force regen on it GCD cast time. This would also ensure that disturbance becomes part of the rotation, some people still ignore it. This can easily be implemented by just putting it on the skill tree where you get the instant cast on proc in the first place.
  
• I also like the idea of giving force bend 2 stacks (or the ability to stack)
  
• We lack any real defensive cooldowns, i.e. abilities that we can cast that do not interrupt our GCD (force mend and force armor are heals, not cooldowns).
  
• Damage reflect on force barrier - I like this idea, but it shouldn't be as severe as stated - perhaps reflects 10% of incoming damage back at attacker would be a cool change - would need to be adjusted for PvE though to prevent doom from automatically killing the DG, for example.
  
• The only idea I like so far of making TK more mobile is a blink (I'd think one that can only be casted every minute or so at most). Everything else has too many PvE implications. I'm worried that the blink will become OP in huttball.
  
• Just throwing this up since it is so requested, though I do not think it is needed, would be the instant CC that we used to have.
  

And to the person who said Sage healers are tank healers, having an armor buff on our regen doesn't make us tank healers - you can easily just cast that regen on the tank and go back to healing raid ;p Our single target healing abilities do not even come close to commando/scoundrel in our ability to keep a tank up, but that is OK, because that is our role in a raid. We can do it sure, we just aren't as good at doing it.

My second idea is kind of across the board change but will be of most benefit to Lightning because of the reduced CD time.

PolarityShift is a great CD, but lets make it 1 step better and allow all skills to be able to be cast on the move whilst PS is active,

this would be a great addition to lightning in PvP meaning you can still do decent dmg for a short period of time while kiting, or on the reverse, chasing down that pesky healer trying to get out of range/LoS.

I fear this may be a bit overpowered for Polarity Shift, and I would simply be thrilled with TRUE interrupt immunity while it is up, meaning no stuns/knock backs/etc would stop us. For that brief period we have polarity shift up in PVP it should be a signal to our attackers that it would be better to run!

Having switched from pve to pvp primarily on my sorc thanks to in no small part the 2.0 buffs to Lightning, I'll toss in my 2 cents regarding my spec's state in that aspect of the game.

Obviously, we're a turret spec with mobility issues, but it's less even about mobility than it is being completely shut down if we have even just one melee on us. Depreva's created a thread dedicated to his concerns about dps sorcs/mercs over in the pvp forum which is worth a read and ties into these ideas for making Lightning into a spec that can actually do something if a marauder or juggernaut decides to get up in our face (all the friggin time, in other words).

We have precious few instant casts, namely those that are baseline to the inquisitor class and nothing else. Shock, Affliction, Slow, Speed and self heal are the only ones available to Lightning outside of procced CL. Because of this lack of on-the-go damage, the most we can hope to do when presented with the lovely gift of smashtard is Overload and **** to try and heal up or maybe kill our target if we're lucky. My relatively modest proposal to fix this problem is to have a talent, high enough in the tree to prevent the other specs from taking it, that reduces all cast times to instant while PS is up. Given that PS takes a 2.0 second cast time down to 1.7, it wouldn't be all that much different in pve but will provide the mobility and ability to counter melee needed to not only survive against everyone's favorite glowbat spec, as well as a couple others, in pvp but also aid on movement-heavy boss fights where Lightning tends to suffer, like whatsface in SnV with the shield generators at the start. The cd attached to PS should keep that from becoming op in any real fashion.

I'm not sure why Nibbon is worried about a blink becoming OP in Huttball, when we already have operatives rolling all over, grabbing the ball, dodging traps, etc with no cd other than energy regen, warriors charging or interceding on 10-20 second cooldowns, shieldtechs pulling and charging, snipers rolling every 20 seconds. Honestly, that would put us in line with about half the classes out there if we replaced Speed with a blink.

I'm not sure why Nibbon is worried about a blink becoming OP in Huttball, when we already have operatives rolling all over, grabbing the ball, dodging traps, etc with no cd other than energy regen, warriors charging or interceding on 10-20 second cooldowns, shieldtechs pulling and charging, snipers rolling every 20 seconds. Honestly, that would put us in line with about half the classes out there if we replaced Speed with a blink.

It's a small worry. The reason for the worry is we already have force speed, adding a blink would make us uncatchable. If you replaced speed with a blink, that would be fine. My worry was about having both. Personally, I like speed - but understand blink would probably be better for TK so they can remain turreted.

It's a small worry. The reason for the worry is we already have force speed, adding a blink would make us uncatchable. If you replaced speed with a blink, that would be fine. My worry was about having both. Personally, I like speed - but understand blink would probably be better for TK so they can remain turreted.

could just make it where you drop the ball if you blink. but i agree, it should be a lightning/tk only move

i absolutely LOVE the blink/teleport idea for lightning

it only makes sense

I honestly feel like making the PvE question a healing one is silly, and simply made so because you are a PvPer and have your questions in mind already but feel the need to pacify the PvE community and healers by giving us a question.

The truth is, Sorc healing in PvE is both balanced and needs very little work. We single target as well as mercs and raid heal as well as ops. Double sorc comp is probably the most viable double healing class comp in an 8man setting also (if you had to run two of the same). Resurgence is a great heal, and fits in our rotation and if you're smart you use it not just to give yourself innervate crits. I cast more DI's than most sorcs and have far less force issues simply because i use resurgence smarter. If you want to fix it, take out the armor buff.

Lightnings mobility is a problem in both PvE and PvP, but sorc dps is far more common in established PvP comp than sorc heals. I'm pretty sure you're on the Bastion, you see how underutilized sorc heals are in PvP simply because survivability wise we can't compete with ops. Don't pigeonhole lightning as a PvP question, and don't make heals PvE as well.

In regards to survivability, BioWare should reexamine static barrier. Currently, it only absorbs a moderate amount and its lockout is such that you essentially always have it up. It has therefore no strategic value to when it is used and is essentially a check if you remembered to press the activation key or not.

 

If the amount of damage it absorbed were greatly increased along with the length of the lockout, then it would have some strategic significance and add a unique element to sorcerer play style. Instead of just always having static barrier up, you would have to chose when to activate it so you aren't trapped by the lockout, such as times when you are being focused or pull aggro. The benefit would be that instead of absorbing a single attack, static barrier would feel more useful. The ability should be designed such that an attacker should sense some risk when attacking a sorcerer with barrier up instead of just ignoring it as they currently do.

The strategic way to barrier is as an emergency heal. It give you time to innervate, DH, or your other healer to get something off. We also roll SBs in PvE when we know high damage phases are about to happen, ie lightning field on Dreadguards. I have my tank SBs planned when we raid based on what phase of the fight we are on.

Static barrier is super underutilized, and I'll honestly say that's because there are no numbers associated with it. When you parse, that mitigated damage is not included so 90% of sorcs out there feel its a wasted GCD.

My co-sorc and I probably over bubble compared to what the guides would suggest, but we seem to get through content just fine. I love when i see a sorc as the number 1 hps on torparse who casted 0 SBs.

1. That's making it harder on yourself.

2. That's making it harder on your raid.

Sorcs have the unique advantage of being pro-active healers. Ops are reactionary and so are mercs. With an adrenal and a precasted, recklesssed, DI then innervate i can burst heal a tank up no problems (basically 20k in 4.8secs, and if i thought ahead and bubbled I'm in the clear). If i know Kephess is jumping down, if i see who the red reticule is on, or if i know who my main tank is and what they are doing in what phase of the fight.

I know i kinda am just coming in here and poo-pooing on everyone's ideas, but I'll say again sorc PvE healing is fine. Focus on something else.

SURVIVABILITY is the problem on the sorc (in PvP). Ask any melee train who they want to hit. Who is the easiest to get down. Force Barrier is a joke and is simple an opportunity to switch targets and then come back to the sorc. Maybe buff the passive healing on both barriers and make it apply to targets as well, forcing people to pop bubbles in order to negate healing. Also, looking at op defensive cooldowns, they spec into a 1.5sec CD reduction on evasion every time they are hit, bringing Evasion down to 13 secs I believe. Anyone else wanna Unnatural Preservation that often?

I know i kinda am just coming in here and poo-pooing on everyone's ideas, but I'll say again sorc PvE healing is fine. Focus on something else.

I'm not sure anyone said to focus on healers, I think people are just discussing everything we can. Psire and I will ultimately have the choice of what we want to address, but that doesn't mean people shouldn't discuss everything that they think is potentially a problem. On my list of problems a few posts back, my top healing thing was #4, for now, which I consider a rather minor thing. Then again, I consider most issues brought up to be pretty minor because, as a whole, I like where Sages/Sorcs are at - my biggest thing is the execute.

won't argue with you on the pve stuff. i raided a lot in wow, and if anything for sorc dps, they just need to make alacrity a better stat, and make it affect dot ticks. that would go a long way for pve

as far as healing in pvp...i suggested pain suppression, inner fire, and binding heal.

in pvp, a sorc healer has to crit on channels/casts or dead. giving them tools to be a bit more tanky is the best solution.

won't argue with you on the pve stuff. i raided a lot in wow, and if anything for sorc dps, they just need to make alacrity a better stat, and make it affect dot ticks. that would go a long way for pve.

Only in making us incredibly OP ;p Balance DPS would skyrocket.

Ok and finally Healing.

 

Now here i think im going to have to dissagree with Nibbon on something, though bare in mind i am mainly 8man content so perhaps it performs differently in a 16man setting, but i think Sorcs are mainly a single target tank healer, with a very powerful, but situational Aoe heal. Amazing if u can get 8 targets to stand in it for the duration but definitely not as flexible as the merc/Oper aoe. Resurgence has the armour buff attached to it which screams out tank healer coupled with innervate and static barrier ( sorry for the WoW reference again ) but Discipline priest?

I definately wouldnt describe us as a HoT healer, since you can only have 2 resurgences up at a time ( well 3 for a couple of seconds) and ive never really considered channels heals as HoTs but maybe thats just personal definitions, its still a single target heal and sorc seems to be designed mainly as a single target healer ( focusing 1 target at a time). So i think they should expand abit on that.

Static barrier is by far our most flexible heal, instant cast, premeditated heal for a fixed amount and lasts 30seconds, so my suggestion would be to add a mechanic to innervate, like, "reduces deionized debuff by 1 second per tick.

This would be great for both tank healing in PvE, and for a target being focused in PvP allowing more barriers more regularly while at the same time not being overpowered since you would be still limited to barrier every 9-10 seconds and only on the target you have been healing.

My second suggestion is to Dark heal, by far the most useless heal in game in my view and has been badly changed a couple of times since release. Take kolto infusion for example, pre 2.0 it was a waste of space, but now with the new change its probably the best, most efficient heal in game for the amount of resource it costs, its cast time and its base heal ( heal before crits )

The change i would like to see would be, and which will be great in both PvE and PvP because it deals with another mechanic of sorc healing which is consumption, is if dark heal healed "you" + the target for X amount.

 

 

OMG, I think i just fell in love with you. <3 Though, you can't say polarity shift DH spam is fun, and it does hit harder than before.

But you're right, 8 man sorc healing and 16 is very different.

What is a Blink exactly? You keep using it with the word teleport, so is it like Phase Walk or something?

I feel like making Polarity Shift making everything insta casts would be somewhat OP, especially in PvE, I think the completely uninterruptable is a more balanced idea.

I also like the Recklessness buff to 100%, as it becomes frustrating when you can't depend on Chain Lightning to crit. I also think it's kind of odd that AoEs will consume both stacks if there are multiple enemies, although I haven't noticed both charges being consumed if Forked Lightning happens or something.

As for Force Barrier, this might be a bit OP: for each second Force Barrier is up, we get a charge (that stacks, so if you let the channel complete, you get 10 stacks), and your next 10 abilities would be instant, but if you broke it at say 6 seconds, you would only have 6 stacks. It would sorta be like Power Surge for Mercs, but it would be somewhat fair, especially in PvE, since it has a very long cooldown, it isn't too bad and that way we aren't losing as much DPS as we are when using it currently. Also, if you casted it before the fight started, that would be an amazing opener! But the cost would be that you don't have that emergency thing when you need it. In PvP, as a DPS, you could stun give yourself a bubble, and use your big heal and self heal and an affliction and then smack them with a big thundering blast or something.

Someone was suggesting like pain suppression, and isn't that sort of what Static Barrier does?