Why do you think the fleet couldn't jump in time? They were already all there and ready to go. Poe was the reason that they weren't ready to jump.

Once again. Did anyone pay attention to the PEOPLE ON THE PLANET that barely escaped being Vaporized? No, when the First Order shows up initially, the evacuation was STILL ONGOING. I swear, it's like people didn't even pay attention to the whole sequence.

Once again. Did anyone pay attention to the PEOPLE ON THE PLANET that barely escaped being Vaporized? No, when the First Order shows up initially, the evacuation was STILL ONGOING. I swear, it's like people didn't even pay attention to the whole sequence.

yes and they make it to the ship and Leia says "ok we are ready to go get back to the ship so we can get out"

Poe then says no let's take out this dreadnaught.

This leads to the loss of the entire bombersquad. They could have made the jump to light speed had Poe went back to the ship.

Now yes the FO would have followed them and then potentially destroyed them but the rebels don't know that.

It's been a couple weeks since I've seen the movie, but my impression on my second watch was a bit simpler: Holdo and co. didn't have a plan yet during the first conversation -- they had just been thrust into that situation and were trying to figure out what to do, but didn't want it getting around that they didn't know. After that, it was just that Poe had ticked her off to the point she didn't want to deal with him.

 

By the time they had a plan and were starting to prep the transports, during the second conversation, she actually looked like she was ready to tell him when he called her a "coward" which just pissed her off so she was no longer inclined to tell him anything. Finally, during the third conversation he barged in with demands followed by outright mutiny.

That does make sense, I may have gotten little excited when I took my time to consider why Holdo did what she did.

yes and they make it to the ship and Leia says "ok we are ready to go get back to the ship so we can get out"

 

Poe then says no let's take out this dreadnaught.

 

This leads to the loss of the entire bombersquad. They could have made the jump to light speed had Poe went back to the ship.

 

Now yes the FO would have followed them and then potentially destroyed them but the rebels don't know that.

But you're ignoring the danger NOW. From what I had read, those bombers are NOT hyper capable. Meaning if Poe and pulled back like she wanted, it was going to take FOREVER to get the bombers recalled, docked and then jump to light speed. To get out of there quickly, Leia would of had to write off the bombers and just jump with all hyper capable craft.

Meaning those bomber crews were dead anyways. Better to just go for the knock out blow than waste the bombers.

If you wanted to know more about the bombers it's in the visual book for TLJ. In fact Holdo's first flagship is that CR90 looking frigate which serves as a carrier for the bombers.

If Leia wanted to get out quick, Holdo or Leia should of never let those bombers go to begin with.

And last point. That DN is a clear and present danger NOW. Not later, not 10 seconds from now, right damn now. A serious clear and present danger, while being danger close. Poe made THE RIGHT CALL.

But you're ignoring the danger NOW. From what I had read, those bombers are NOT hyper capable. Meaning if Poe and pulled back like she wanted, it was going to take FOREVER to get the bombers recalled, docked and then jump to light speed. To get out of there quickly, Leia would of had to write off the bombers and just jump with all hyper capable craft.

 

Meaning those bomber crews were dead anyways. Better to just go for the knock out blow than waste the bombers.

 

If you wanted to know more about the bombers it's in the visual book for TLJ. In fact Holdo's first flagship is that CR90 looking frigate which serves as a carrier for the bombers.

 

If Leia wanted to get out quick, Holdo or Leia should of never let those bombers go to begin with.

 

And last point. That DN is a clear and present danger NOW. Not later, not 10 seconds from now, right damn now. A serious clear and present danger, while being danger close. Poe made THE RIGHT CALL.

The bomber distance is what's unclear. This is something Star Wars has always had a problem with ie actual logistics.

We have to assume that the bombers weren't launched when Poe first tries to comminicate as the FO says "A long x-wing" they would have seen the other ships show up when they did the scans.

So asssuming they just launched as he took out the towers they could have turned around and made it back in.

The bomber distance is what's unclear. This is something Star Wars has always had a problem with ie actual logistics.

 

We have to assume that the bombers weren't launched when Poe first tries to comminicate as the FO says "A long x-wing" they would have seen the other ships show up when they did the scans.

 

So asssuming they just launched as he took out the towers they could have turned around and made it back in.

From what I could make out, the bombers were petty much on final, so to turn around they still would of been under fire. Better to just finish the attack.

From what I could make out, the bombers were petty much on final, so to turn around they still would of been under fire. Better to just finish the attack.

again if that were the case they would have been spotted by the FO and they would have shot Poe right away. But they say it's only 1 x-wing.

Like i said this has always been the failing of the Star Wars movies they aren't the best for accurate military tactics or locations of ships.

Think back to ANH when the assault on the Death Star is happening. The Tie fighters aren't scrambled till well after they are attacking.

The bomber distance is what's unclear. This is something Star Wars has always had a problem with ie actual logistics.

 

We have to assume that the bombers weren't launched when Poe first tries to comminicate as the FO says "A long x-wing" they would have seen the other ships show up when they did the scans.

 

So asssuming they just launched as he took out the towers they could have turned around and made it back in.

Exactly.

And, good point... must assume Star Wars time/distance/physics.

But you're ignoring the danger NOW. From what I had read, those bombers are NOT hyper capable. ....

They have hyperdrives

http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/MG-100_StarFortress_SF-17

They have hyperdrives

http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/MG-100_StarFortress_SF-17

Thought they weren't? Well learn something new.

again if that were the case they would have been spotted by the FO and they would have shot Poe right away. But they say it's only 1 x-wing.

 

Like i said this has always been the failing of the Star Wars movies they aren't the best for accurate military tactics or locations of ships.

 

Think back to ANH when the assault on the Death Star is happening. The Tie fighters aren't scrambled till well after they are attacking.

Well not only did they launch late, only Vader's personal squadrons launched. The Death Star has over 1000 fighters. Why they didn't launch them. Tarkin believed himself invincible and there was no need to consider the snub fighters a threat.

Well not only did they launch late, only Vader's personal squadrons launched. The Death Star has over 1000 fighters. Why they didn't launch them. Tarkin believed himself invincible and there was no need to consider the snub fighters a threat.

Not to mention they had cannons all over the surface. No reason to launch fighters who will likely just get in the way and be caught in friendly fire.

You're missing something. Poe being out there was not the problem. Yes, that was his mission. He was stalling for time while the evacuation took place. First he does it on the radio and then he does it by attacking the cannons. Those actions allowed the evacuation to be completed.

 

The issue is that Poe then decides that they need to take out the dreadnaught. He is ordered back to the fleet and disobeys that order. He needlessly gets all of the bombers wiped-out. He delayed the retreat, which is the issue. They didn't know they would be tracked, so it made no sense, at the time, to keep up the assault on the dreadnaught.

 

Being out wasn't the problem. Staying out was the problem.

All the bombers destroyed being a waste seems to be a matter of opinion. Poe said taking out a Super Dreadnaught (which is what happened) was worth the risk.

Higher ups may have disagreed. However, none of them were any good either.

Holdo does a tactic that she waits to do, after 2 big ships are already evacuated and destroyed (why not have one of them do that trick at the first evac?) and over half the fleeing escape pods/smaller ships are destroyed.

Holdo was not a good leader. Her move was awesome, but if she was any good, she'd have done that simple plan sooner, but if she did that, she wouldn't have been seen as the heroic leader sacrificing herself, because she didn't do it first.

Waiting for over half the escaping ships to be destroyed just made her move look even worse.

On third watching, I noticed something interesting about Holdo.

When Poe goes to the bridge to confront her and notices the shuttles being fueled, she seems about to tell him what the plan is when he starts yelling at her, calling her a coward and a traitor.

Of course, we don't know for sure that she was going to do this but the way I see it, she was finally willing to compromise when he resorted to insults and and accusations which made her snap. (And honestly who would let anyone walk over them at such a critical time?)

In the end, Holdo is less a bad commander and just someone who sucks at people stuff, which is why she grossly underestimated Poe's hero complex and willingness to go over her and do things "his" way.

And, well, Poe is kind of a dick. I'm sorry I like him but stirring trouble in the middle of an evacuation by calling your commanding officer a coward and a traitor is definitely not a responsible thing to do.

Instead of trying to bellitle each other, Poe and Holdo should have learned to communicate. He should have asked her what they were planning with the shuttles instead of attacking her. She should have told him before kicking him off the bridge. Also she might have mentionned it was Leia's idea or at least aimed at her objective. Poe heas the utmost respect for Leia, he'd have listened.

On third watching, I noticed something interesting about Holdo.

When Poe goes to the bridge to confront her and notices the shuttles being fueled, she seems about to tell him what the plan is when he starts yelling at her, calling her a coward and a traitor.

 

Of course, we don't know for sure that she was going to do this but the way I see it, she was finally willing to compromise when he resorted to insults and and accusations which made her snap. (And honestly who would let anyone walk over them at such a critical time?)

 

In the end, Holdo is less a bad commander and just someone who sucks at people stuff, which is why she grossly underestimated Poe's hero complex and willingness to go over her and do things "his" way.

 

And, well, Poe is kind of a dick. I'm sorry I like him but stirring trouble in the middle of an evacuation by calling your commanding officer a coward and a traitor is definitely not a responsible thing to do.

 

Instead of trying to bellitle each other, Poe and Holdo should have learned to communicate. He should have asked her what they were planning with the shuttles instead of attacking her. She should have told him before kicking him off the bridge. Also she might have mentionned it was Leia's idea or at least aimed at her objective. Poe heas the utmost respect for Leia, he'd have listened.

Agreed -- that's what I saw on a repeat viewing as well. Holdo looks bemused at Poe's ranting about the transports at first, but about ready to explain to him why he's wrong, but then he throws the "coward" and "traitor" lines at her and she just gets legitimately pissed off at him.

Only thing is, I don't think there's any way it was Leia's idea, she had been unconscious since almost immediately after the First Order showed off their new Hyperspace Tracking ability. I think the reason Holdo brushed Poe off the first time he asked her "what's the plan" is that at that point they legitimately hadn't worked out what to do yet, but that's certainly not a bit of news you want getting out (Rose would have had to use her shock stick at the escape pods lot more than four times, if that had happened).

True about the Leia part, I suppose I meant more that Leia was planning on finding a new base and was probably aware of them being close to Crait in the first place (Since they weren't pulled out of Hyperspace, it may have been the original destination after all.)

But nothing in the movie indicates she knew, and that sneaking off to Crait was her plan, true enough

For some reason men always feel intimidated when they see a strong woman and instantly hate something because of it. They seem to think that all women are supposed to be shrinking violets or always in some kind of distress and need a man to get them out of it. That is just sexist and stupid. The real thing that is killing this country is close mindedness and the inability to see things from another perspective. So you are welcome to your opinion, even though it is ignorant and misogynistic. Oh and I am a man by the way and no I'm not gay.

You don't say HOW it is ignorant or misogynistic though which is a form of intolerance by the way not all men and never always feel intimidated by strong women.. Here is some truth, men will always be stronger in strength than women, that's just biology and fact..

You don't say HOW it is ignorant or misogynistic though which is a form of intolerance by the way not all men and never always feel intimidated by strong women.. Here is some truth, men will always be stronger in strength than women, that's just biology and fact..

Can you please re-write that coherently?

You don't say HOW it is ignorant or misogynistic though which is a form of intolerance by the way not all men and never always feel intimidated by strong women.. Here is some truth, men will always be stronger in strength than women, that's just biology and fact..

Well, if you look at certain muscle parts, yes. Other muscle parts, rather no.

You don't say HOW it is ignorant or misogynistic though which is a form of intolerance by the way not all men and never always feel intimidated by strong women.. Here is some truth, men will always be stronger in strength than women, that's just biology and fact..

If you define strength only by muscles, probably correct. But strength is not only define by muscles.

Definition of strength:

noun

1.

the quality or state of being strong; bodily or muscular power; vigor.

2.

mental power, force, or vigor.

3.

moral power, firmness, or courage.

4.

power by reason of influence, authority, resources, numbers, etc.

5.

number, as of personnel or ships in a force or body:

a regiment with a strength of 3000.

6.

effective force, potency, or cogency, as of inducements or arguments:

the strength of his plea.

7.

power of resisting force, strain, wear, etc.

8.

vigor of action, language, feeling, etc.

9.

the effective or essential properties characteristic of a beverage, chemical, or the like:

The alcoholic strength of brandy far exceeds that of wine.

10.

a particular proportion or concentration of these properties; intensity, as of light, color, sound, flavor, or odor:

coffee of normal strength.

11.

something or someone that gives one strength or is a source of power or encouragement; sustenance:

The Bible was her strength and joy.

12.

power to rise or remain firm in prices:

Stocks continued to show strength. The pound declined in strength.

http://www.dictionary.com/browse/strength

Sometimes showing strong women is done right and sometimes it isn't.

People like to point out how Rey was able to use the force with little to no training, but forget that Anakin was using the force at nine years old to pod race, and he didn't even know he was using the force. Or that Leia did what she did in the second film, despite her being the daughter of Darth Vader, and Luke could of helped her along at sometime during the break between ROTJ and TFA.

Sometimes showing strong women is done right and sometimes it isn't.

 

People like to point out how Rey was able to use the force with little to no training, but forget that Anakin was using the force at nine years old to pod race, and he didn't even know he was using the force. Or that Leia did what she did in the second film, despite her being the daughter of Darth Vader, and Luke could of helped her along at sometime during the break between ROTJ and TFA.

Anakin was using the force subcontiously. It wasn't active usage. To actively use the force like Rey does with zero training is the issue.

Hell I jad no issues with Rey having the force vision, or being mentally resistant to Kylo. That is very subtle use of the force. Or traits as Qui-Gon said in Phantom Menace about Anakin.

But using the force to pull, or doing a Jedi mind trick with no training. I'm calling bull****.

So yes, perhaps you miss some context which explains why I view the OP's views as sexist. I also note that the OP is rather silent so I wouldn't be surprised if he was banned. Without the context I speak of the tone of this thread sounds different, but with the context, it simply is a continuation of his previous posts and sexist tone.

It is good, tovarishch sampolit, that you found This thread and initiated enforcement of correction on perpetraitors of crime. Silence is sign of banishment to camps of labour for enemy of thought-regime.

It is imperative that labour to ensure correctionality of thought continues. Anti-regime thoughts disguised in form of ’civil discussion’ are wolf in sheep clothing tool of menshevik and fat cat corporate slave. This is illumination of necessesity of fighting dissident. By employment of tool of beaureaucracy and silent coercion, enemy of people will not employ devious modus of ’civil discussion’ against interest of thought Regime. Enemy will be halted at any cost.

Tovarishch Eksenia

It is good, tovarishch sampolit, that you found This thread and initiated enforcement of correction on perpetraitors of crime. Silence is sign of banishment to camps of labour for enemy of thought-regime.

 

It is imperative that labour to ensure correctionality of thought continues. Anti-regime thoughts disguised in form of ’civil discussion’ are wolf in sheep clothing tool of menshevik and fat cat corporate slave. This is illumination of necessesity of fighting dissident. By employment of tool of beaureaucracy and silent coercion, enemy of people will not employ devious modus of ’civil discussion’ against interest of thought Regime. Enemy will be halted at any cost.

 

Tovarishch Eksenia

Eeeeeeeeehmmm, sure... first of all I am not Russian (the -rus in Ylliarus is actually more coincidental than intended) but okay, the confusion is understandable.

Secondly, I have no idea what you're trying to say XD

Eeeeeeeeehmmm, sure... first of all I am not Russian (the -rus in Ylliarus is actually more coincidental than intended) but okay, the confusion is understandable.

 

Secondly, I have no idea what you're trying to say XD

Oh, neither am I. But it begs the quetion why you carry yourself with the supreme arrogance of a political commissar?