Jump to content

#BringBack2.10TTK


QuiveringPotato

Recommended Posts

Does anyone remember when pretty much all burst specs could 100-0 you in under 10 seconds? Anyone remember when a Carnage Mara could wipe you in 3 GCDs if you didn't react quickly? When a Concealment Operative could have you back in the spawn in like 4 globals if you just stood there and took it like an idiot?

 

2.10 was about as balanced as we've seen this game. Healers were useful, but not overpowered. Tank stats were good. Burst specs could.. well, burst. Dot specs were also strong (madness sins/sorcs were really the only OP thing). Now, even a 1v1 can last longer than 5 minutes. It can take ~4 or more decent DPS to down a guarded healer and a tank. Some specs have garbage damage output, but ridiculous survivability (looking at you, concealment). In PVP, if you **** up, you should die. Currently, you'll die if you **** up like 10 times or so.

 

I miss this time.

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yuEeVgQVw4s

 

This was a better time for PVP.

 

I really think the game would benefit from lowering HP pools, increasing damage, buffing tank stats, buffing burst, and reducing healers' effectiveness (although just lowering HP pools would fix a lot of this).

 

Obviously, fixing gearing and mercs is the primary issue right this second, but down the line, I'd like to see the game return to the glorious late 2.0 era in terms of the overall feel of PVP. It's been "parsing simulator" for like 2 years now.

 

Edit: I am not asking to literally roll back time and play things as they were in 2.10, I'm asking for a 2.10-styled 5.0.

Edited by QuiveringPotato
Link to comment
Share on other sites

2.10 was about as balanced as we've seen this game. Healers were useful, but not overpowered. Tank stats were good. Burst specs could.. well, burst. Dot specs were also strong (madness sins/sorcs were really the only OP thing).

 

I completely agree, 2.10 was the most balanced. You could play hardswitch and you were able to play dot. Great times.

Doubt hardswitch will come back anytime soon though :(

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Yes bring back the 2.0 electro net. That was a thing of beauty. No breaker for it and immense damage if you twitched. No sorc even bothered to learn what bubble was.

 

Couldn't you still break the hindering effect of it? I don't want to change any current abilities (except for mercenary's busted utilities), I just want the TTK to be lowered so that skill comes back.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I'm all for having retaliation, deadly throw and old force scream back on carnage. But I rather like how things are now, outside of mercs being overtuned DCD wise and the brazing bolt slow being absurd, things are fine. Marauder then was pretty much one GCD kills on people who didn't know what they were doing, it was fun for only so long. It heavily got repetitive and stale, I have never liked a class so much like I have to Marauder.

 

3.0 came along and really ****ed up things combat wise, lowering our damage across the board and increasing HP pools, so they gave nearly everyone new things to make up for it. However damage wise marauder was pretty shafted outside of no CD force rend, also losing two moves, while on this topic some of the abilities gained were also kind of crappy compared to things like Cell burst/energy load.

 

Beyond that to now, things have been alright, until almighty mercs have arrived. I now feel for my pyrotech more than I ever have, losing flamethrower takes a huge hit in AoE/Slow/Damage PvP wise. Second favorite spec to play. When people are running premade, even if it's just tank healer. I'm basically forced off burst spec (if I want to still be most effective) if they're good, that I can agree I do not like one bit. I'm nearly forced onto a more durable DoT spec like Juggernaut or Assassin (last patch would be including PT :( ), which are fun but honestly i'd rather not be forced onto something else where I no longer make progress towards my main.

 

Back then unlike now, I wouldn't be forced off as their taunts/tank stats wouldn't really put a dent in my damage nor would I be controlled so hard. So in that aspect i'd love that back, but I don't think it's all that possible. But in a full premade i'd say things are still the same, usually a landslide match like always if they're not terrible. I do tend to take matches off good premades, just like before. Even without healers but it isn't "Fun" and that really kills my mood to queue more.

(This is concerning purely 8v8 ^ in any decent ranked arena back then, being controlled wasn't very difficult, we now have more tools to deal with it compared to what was before. Also the pace of the battle is much different then so getting away with things were easier, now i'm not so lucky and I don't get away with things I once used to.)

 

Overall I think instead of lowering HP pools, I think making different queues, one focused on group and one for solo queues. But when they merge give the other team some type of heads up, not everyone wants to deal with it nor do I want to leave a match I already waited 2minutes + queue time to play.

Edited by Beyrahl
Link to comment
Share on other sites

I'm all for having retaliation, deadly throw and old force scream back on carnage. But I rather like how things are now, outside of mercs being overtuned DCD wise and the brazing bolt slow being absurd, things are fine. Marauder then was pretty much one GCD kills on people who didn't know what they were doing, it was fun for only so long. It heavily got repetitive and stale, I have never liked a class so much like I have to Marauder.

 

3.0 came along and really ****ed up things combat wise, lowering our damage across the board and increasing HP pools, so they gave nearly everyone new things to make up for it. However damage wise marauder was pretty shafted outside of no CD force rend, also losing two moves, while on this topic some of the abilities gained were also kind of crappy compared to things like Cell burst/energy load.

 

Beyond that to now, things have been alright, until almighty mercs have arrived. I now feel for my pyrotech more than I ever have, losing flamethrower takes a huge hit in AoE/Slow/Damage PvP wise. Second favorite spec to play. When people are running premade, even if it's just tank healer. I'm basically forced off burst spec (if I want to still be most effective) if they're good, that I can agree I do not like one bit. I'm nearly forced onto a more durable DoT spec like Juggernaut or Assassin (last patch would be including PT :( ), which are fun but honestly i'd rather not be forced onto something else where I no longer make progress towards my main.

 

Back then unlike now, I wouldn't be forced off as their taunts/tank stats wouldn't really put a dent in my damage nor would I be controlled so hard. So in that aspect i'd love that back, but I don't think it's all that possible. But in a full premade i'd say things are still the same, usually a landslide match like always if they're not terrible. I do tend to take matches off good premades, just like before. Even without healers but it isn't "Fun" and that really kills my mood to queue more.

(This is concerning purely 8v8 ^ in any decent ranked arena back then, being controlled wasn't very difficult, we now have more tools to deal with it compared to what was before. Also the pace of the battle is much different then so getting away with things were easier, now i'm not so lucky and I don't get away with things I once used to.)

 

Overall I think instead of lowering HP pools, I think making different queues, one focused on group and one for solo queues. But when they merge give the other team some type of heads up, not everyone wants to deal with it nor do I want to leave a match I already waited 2minutes + queue time to play.

 

I like how classes are now as well, I'm just saying that the TTK is way too long and that's one of the main issues with class balance. Some classes have pretty darn good burst while others are just mediocre, whereas in 2.10, all burst specs were pretty much equally deadly. TTK is so high atm, that against a healer, dot specs are basically irrelevant.

Edited by QuiveringPotato
Link to comment
Share on other sites

imo what mostly changed is burst spec are not so bursty anymore, or more accurately, their sustained dps was reduced significantly compared to what it was then, including the burst part, and meanwhile endurance went haywire.

 

I mean from 50 to 70 dps went from 1800ish to 10k, but health went from 15k to 120k.

 

But look at the "bursters", carnage aside, which I feel as a lot less bursty in 5.0, they are at the bottom of the dps scale by quite a fair margin. IO has higher burst than some.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Couldn't you still break the hindering effect of it? I don't want to change any current abilities (except for mercenary's busted utilities), I just want the TTK to be lowered so that skill comes back.

 

When the ability was first made no it was unbreakable. But it is always the same with merc. Grav round made people cry in 1.x so they destroyed it. Net made people cry so it was the first thing to be broken in a patch. Now people cry because of the reflect shield. No one mentions maras have the same shield on utility, and people accept the god bubble now.

 

For balance all they really need to do is make the sorc aoe heal smaller range or harder to apply the other healers are ok. As for DPS I would prefer to see the less survivable specs ie PT go back to the very big damage they used to do. but this is not an option till they fix sorc healing. 5.5 million heals in a regs is stupid, and in ranked taking any other class is killing your team. Operatives are to much at the moment, they have evasion, roll, stealth, self heal, and the best dps numbers in the game. Which imo just leaves sniper as an over performer and I think that is down to the map design itself rather than the class. some maps are just to open for the huge damage they put out, but as I have said before we need new maps even if they are the same objective. Without new maps to balance the new skills of each class since 50 people are free to abuse things like phase walk, roll, and sniper dps.

 

So lastly is the merc truly op? It is the slowest moving class, with the worst self heal until the new changes, and now the worst party heal but slightly better self heals. Nothing is instant self healing wise as with sorc, and nothing is continuous as with op. The probes need to be hit to heal. The mando version still has the big green light of "I'm over here and running low on ammo" surely the biggest faction imbalance in the game. And merc dps is pretty good but rocket out? hahaha all you have to do is get on top of a merc and hit till dead kolto overload is really the only thing that will save them with a self heal on the next GCD. And let's face it if you are attacking a merc 1v1 unless you are capping a node solo you really shouldn't be in pvp. It's all about focusing down 1 target at a time.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I disagree on the healthpool. There would be still enough damage to kill someone in stunlock with hardswitch. The problem is there are way too many escapes.

 

Sorcheal with 2 breaker and phasewalk. its beyond stupid and hardswitch killer #1

Sniper...dont even get me started on this ******** character, he completely sucks the joiy out of every other class

merc reflect while hardstunned.

Everyone acess to less CD on breaker.

Less dmg. while stunned utility

 

All this ******** killed hardswitch for teamranked. So sad, it was by far my favorite tactic to play. :(

 

You guys remember when healing was all about cleansing and following hardstuns and throwing in explosive probes and not just farming hps like a trainings dummy? good times :)

Edited by Qwurdilu
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Bring back TTK? Bring back godlike net to already OP mercs? Are you mad???

Mercs, maras, snipers and sins are kings in solo ranked because they posess insane burst and good DCDs against it.

While juggs and PTs can be bursted through all their DCDs in seconds, dps sorcs and operatives also lacking and can't survive through this pressure.

Sustained specs are also pile of crap though. So basically you are proposing to give already FOTM classes the ability to singlehandedly global people. Pls no.

2.10 maybe was the best patch for pvp, just because each class was kinda viable.

Edited by DerSchneider
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Dps operative lacking survival please don't make me laugh. Have you seen the thrill of the hunt video and how boring ops made it. Even Snave who has something to say on every subject, plays an op exclusively since launch and hosted the event was having a snooze. The point is that healers should have a nerve twitching time keeping players alive. Players with the stealth should have to run or die when you turn around and beat on them. Pure DPS (snipers and maras) should hit like a train but need a healer. Tank/dps classes should do their job with a little advantage of the offspec. And sorcs healers should not be able to solo heal a wz reg or ranked while doing some crafting and reading up on google.

 

I am not advocating easy kills but with so many dcds, not enough damage, and huge heals (op bug/sorc easy mode) the game is growing stale. No one wants to die but this is a computer game so suck it up and wait for the respawn.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I disagree on the healthpool. There would be still enough damage to kill someone in stunlock with hardswitch. The problem is there are way too many escapes.

 

Sorcheal with 2 breaker and phasewalk. its beyond stupid and hardswitch killer #1

Sniper...dont even get me started on this ******** character, he completely sucks the joiy out of every other class

merc reflect while hardstunned.

Everyone acess to less CD on breaker.

Less dmg. while stunned utility

 

All this ******** killed hardswitch for teamranked. So sad, it was by far my favorite tactic to play. :(

 

You guys remember when healing was all about cleansing and following hardstuns and throwing in explosive probes and not just farming hps like a trainings dummy? good times :)

 

The problem is there are too many escapes, too many stuns, too many immunity to CC and/or stuns, basically the CC went completely bonkers over time on this game.

 

We are dealing with a vast bloat of CC and CC immunities imo.

 

The focus more than anything now is who uses their CC and CC immunities the best or has the best available.

 

I have hated the speed increases in combat and all the CC changes since 2.0 and onward tbh.

 

I used to create whine threads on this topic non-stop ages ago and just accepted this is the meta of PVP for swtor.

Edited by Lhancelot
Link to comment
Share on other sites

The mando version still has the big green light of "I'm over here and running low on ammo" surely the biggest faction imbalance in the game.

 

The "Green Beam Of Death" ? Sorcshave something similar, their Lightning. A Sorc using Lightning is as easily spotted as a Commando trying to "do the beam".

Both are radically different in purpose, though.

I was only meaning their visual impact, nothing more.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

If there were no healers in the game I would be ok with the current ttk. But heals and dps guarders (+ ridiculous amounts of aoe cc) have resulted in way too many games where I see millions of dmg done, even from my conc sentinel, and very few if any kills. A large percentage of reg arenas are about maneuvering to handle the mist (which shouldn't happen, imo) and objectives in wzs are getting capped only by the spamers and cc'ers with dps just being an annoying distraction.

 

2.10 was one of my favorite times in the game. The current pvp isn't much fun for me at all - been playing other games lately, actually.

Edited by Savej
Link to comment
Share on other sites

While 2.10 era had the best class balance, TTK then was way too low. TTK now though is way too high

 

I think the best solution as we stand right now is to re-instate the healing debuff and then nerf sorc heals to be inline with the other two healers. Remove guard from dps specs. I think that AOE taunt as well should be reduced from 30% to 15%.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

While 2.10 era had the best class balance, TTK then was way too low. TTK now though is way too high

 

I think the best solution as we stand right now is to re-instate the healing debuff and then nerf sorc heals to be inline with the other two healers. Remove guard from dps specs. I think that AOE taunt as well should be reduced from 30% to 15%.

 

I always think it is funny when people think merc heals is in line with the other two.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Operatives are to much at the moment, they have evasion, roll, stealth, self heal, and the best dps numbers in the game.

 

LOL. Okay, if you think Lethality's dummy parses are in any way relevant in PVP, you probably shouldn't voice your opinion.

 

Also, again, since people cannot read.

 

Literally rolling back to 2.10 is a retarded idea. Abilities would function as they do now. The only complaints I remember seeing back in late 2.0 is that madness sorcs/sins were OP. Dotspecs were good (even without dotspreading), and burst was significant. Healers and tanks required skill to play well.

 

The direct opposite of current balance now.

Edited by QuiveringPotato
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Go play an Operative in ranked before commenting, then tell me how epic their survival truly is when focused.

 

 

  • Can't roll when netted.
  • Only 1 stun breaker and saving it for net can be a death sentence when hard stunned and focused.
  • No DCD that can be used while stunned.
  • Evasion is short lived and on a relatively long cool down
  • Keeping probes up for heal and DR takes 1-2 GCD
  • Curative Agent is great, but does far too little healing if focused by 2 people. Even with Curative Agent + Probe + DR on Stim Boost you will not survive being focused.
  • Lack luster damage compared to mara, sins, merc, sniper.
  • You basically need to save Evasion for Cloaking Screen to have any chance of escaping in stealth
  • Would gladly trade Volatile Substance for something that did direct (instant) damage

 

In normal warzones you can better run away from the fight, but in ranked you kinda have to be in there, and, well, then you will probably be focused.

 

So yeah... "nerf operatives" ha ha ha....

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Edit: I do agree that Ops are too weak now. They can migitate a lot of damage but only if they do not do any damage themselves. Other classes can migitate a lot of damage too but are able to dps at the same time. My post is about Ops in 2.0 - 3.0:

 

 

To those who played Maras and especially Ops only back then and complaining here:

 

I am sure that some DPS-only guys and especially those who used to play scoundrel/operative miss that time.

 

From your perspective it is balanced to defeat someone within 3 GCDs? While you are NOT defeated within 3 GCDs? (Vanish, 99% invincibility?)

 

I played a Merc healer as my main back then. When the Merc had to use his Rapid Shots to heal others and he couldn't use them on himself. And the Kolto bubble could only be applied to one target. Kolto overload could easily be bursted through if not combined with shield or/and warzone adrenal.

 

When an op opened an me back then I had to watch myself loosing 60% of my HP being stunned until he had to apply his 2nd hardstun. Then I could use my stunbreak and only if I had a perfect timing I would be able to heal myself (with the help of Kolto Overload and shield) to full again. Breaking the first stun would always lead to being globaled. If two Ops opened on me at the same time, there was no chance to survive as long as they knew their rotation and timed their stuns.

 

Yes you are right that was a time where the victims of Ops would die from only making one mistake. But I am sure that if you would have been on the other side of that cc-burst, you would not have enjoyed it that much.

 

And at the same time on the side of the Op this rule "of making one mistake and die" never applied. The Op was usually the one starting the fight and putting his enemy under pressure to not fail his stunbreak! And even if an Op was failing he could immediatly vanish to rethink his strategy.

 

I know we do not have balance now, but from a Merc Healer perspective 2.0 - 3.0 was the most unbalanced time. PTs, Sage DPS and Juggs are really not fun to play in ranked anymore (I tried) but they are not as trashy as the Merc used to be back then (I do think that those three classes should gain more survivibility!). I remember that sorcs had similar problems.

 

Also back then the Op was the fastest moving class in game. All the other classes were just brought in line with them now.

 

Basically I hear:

 

"Ops and Maras used to be the only DPS that could just global a stunned target while having "a holy **** button" and being able to move around the map really fast. Now every class has a holy **** button and they are all fast so Ops and Maras are only as good as other average classes."

 

So: consider the perspective of your victims as well who needed a way to escape and prevent you from destroying them that you always had.

Edited by Bobby_McDonald
Link to comment
Share on other sites

×
×
  • Create New...