Hello. Can someone (who knows from experience) pls tell me if TFB NiM (full op-8 men) can be done if not all ppl in group are full 72 BiS and augmented with purple grade 28 augments. Thx.

Yes it can be done with not everyone 72 BiS and augmented, if the group works well together and people know mechanics. For most bosses if you have a raid dps of 11-12k you won't hit enrage.

Can be done, but not ideal. Ideally you'd want everyone in the 8-man group in half 69/72 with their proper set bonuses, or missing one piece, stuff like that. As for augments, people have done it with worse but at this stage in the game, it seems almost ludicrous that people wouldn't be completely augmented with purple 28(66s) on their MAIN NiM raiding characters.

 

It also depends which boss. WH is easy, you need something like 10k raid DPS(about 2k DPS per DPS, assuming tanks can do more than 1k DPS each for the fight). Kephess takes some effort. DG is reputed to be the hardest NiM fight in the game. I haven't tried Op9 or TfB yet.

 

But more importantly, your teams needs to have competent players especially if sub-optimally geared. Geared players can sometimes ignore mechanics and fight on, under-geared players need to be on top of mechanics and their classes.

Thx a lot guys, really a appreciate your answers. We had an argument about that in guild few days ago and my opinion was like you said but some ppl claimed all raid members needed full 72 BiS. Thx a lot again and I'm happy that I was right.

You have to be really on point, but yes, you can do it with an undergeared raid. My guild has a sage healer who has subbed into NiM TfB and did so originally with 69 com gear and no set bonus. Most of the things that make NiM TfB hard are not raw output related but more a question of coordination and execution, especially since the second nerf of DG. The only places where you might have gear-related issues are with your DPS on Operator IX and The Terror itself.

I wouldn't advise it, but yes it CAN be done. NiM is more of a mechanics check than anything, BUT, every boss has a dps check, some more than others, for example Terror would be extremely hard to do without people in almost to full BiS(72) gear. This is due to the enrage on the tentacles and the adds that come out having a separate enrage timer, and man is it a PIA. You can definently pick and choose bosses that you wan't to do and get gear and experience that way, for example Ops Chief could probably be done in half 69 gear with ease. Same goes for possibly horror. Just make sure your group isn't sitting around waiting for an explanation on raid day and is doing their homework on the fights ahead of time. Edited September 6, 2013 by TrillOG-

You will be able to get away with tanks or healers not being full 72 BIS if they play their roles well. Where you will have problems is if the DPS are not. The fights in NM mode are real DPS checks.

Yes, but at the very least I advise the DPS be close to BiS 72s.

I am not sure its advisable to do it without being close to BiS gear (72s).

 

I was able to finally get a group capable of attempting NiM content (After gearing up loads of people from my guild only for them to stop playing when almost ready for NiM - very annoying). We are not BIS gear (most of us have not best enchantments, some new dps missing one or two relics etc etc). We have been trying first boss at TFB on NIM this week.

 

On first day we struggled with mechanics. I have went thru log files, watched few movies and adjust our tactics. We are now getting thru the fight almost perfectly. On two good tries we have our raid dps over 11k (each DPS is doing 2.5k+) but we hit enrage. On one other fight where we had 30 seconds left before enrage and boss at 300k health, our off tank messed up and wiped the raid (we would of make it before enrage). Did not kill him yet. Its seems to be easy boss from mechanics side (especially with two changes we made to help healers heal thru it and limit damage on the raid) but i find DPS check to be tough.

 

 

 

So to answer your question. Your tanks and healers don't need to be full BiS 72s to progress but your DPS needs really to be on top of their game if gear is not that great. I am ranking in top 50 for Gunslinger on plenty of fights and now rest of our group DPS is not much further behind me (used to be a problem) but we still struggle with enrage timer on Nightmare. If your DPS has all relics/implants/ear and augments then one or two enchantments wan't stop you. But i find DPS check to be the biggest issue for our group so far..

Edited September 23, 2013 by Macio

Full 75

 

#intrepid

Full 75

 

#intrepid

 

is this a mistake and you wanted to type in "Full 72"?

or just a way of saying we are bad ?

is this a mistake and you wanted to type in "Full 72"?

or just a way of saying we are bad ?

 

Poke at intrepid cause I have the maturity level of a child.

 

To be productive I'd say tanks can have a range from 69--72, healers about the same. If the dps knows how to play extremely well you can do it with 1400 ish bonus dmg (not sure where this ranks think its majority 72.

we managed to kill Writhing Horror last night (bit of a drama kill).

It seems to be correct to require dps to have almost bis 72s as we have two dps guys withour good relics etc and we killed him as soon as he hit enrage. we have myself with almost BiS 72s (two enchants missing) and one sentninel with similar gear. Another sentinel is lacking some gear and so is our commando dps.

 

We had to squeeze max from what we had and adjust tactics to make is as easy as possible on healers (if anyone needs any tips i am more then happy to share).

 

for laugh and kicks you can watch it here:

Gratz on the kill. I'm in the same group as original poster. We are currently routinely one-shotting first boss and hitting massive problems on second. We got to phase 3, but I think we are failing healer checks still. Can anyone contribute HPS/EHPS numbers for successful Dreadguards kill on 8-man NiM in their current after-nerf version?

Dont think the DG fight has high HPS requirements. Its more about the whole raid minimazing the damage taken. In fact our healers always do less HPS on succesfull kills.

I agree that DG 8man is 100% about your raid as a whole, mostly mechanically. A group essentially single healed it (other healer was not even 1000 EHPS lol), and it was because damage was avoided by the tanks and dps. Beating the 3rd Ciphas shield is a good indicator of whether you'll hit enrage or not, although it can be killed if you finish Heirad immediately after the 3rd shield. If you're hitting the 3rd lightning phase, you'll probably overheat your healers and will almost certainly hit enrage. If this happens you seriously need to look at your parses and make sure that tanks are 900+ (and contributing a fair amount of that onto heirad) at least and dps are 2k+. Healers should be able to get 100-200 dps just from basic dots and orbitals. That might seem unimportant, but getting Heirad down before 3rd shield will pay huge dividends for your group into the 2nd and 3rd phases and can give up to 30 seconds extra against enrage.

I might not be able to try my hands on Dread Guards before new raids comes out. We probably will not have enough time in a week to do both new ops and progress thru NiM TFB but i was really looking forward to it. Who knows if new ops are not that difficult (now we have good group of players) then we might have time for both ....

 

you guys have any videos of your kills of DG on NiM ?

I agree that DG 8man is 100% about your raid as a whole, mostly mechanically. A group essentially single healed it (other healer was not even 1000 EHPS lol), and it was because damage was avoided by the tanks and dps. Beating the 3rd Ciphas shield is a good indicator of whether you'll hit enrage or not, although it can be killed if you finish Heirad immediately after the 3rd shield. If you're hitting the 3rd lightning phase, you'll probably overheat your healers and will almost certainly hit enrage. If this happens you seriously need to look at your parses and make sure that tanks are 900+ (and contributing a fair amount of that onto heirad) at least and dps are 2k+. Healers should be able to get 100-200 dps just from basic dots and orbitals. That might seem unimportant, but getting Heirad down before 3rd shield will pay huge dividends for your group into the 2nd and 3rd phases and can give up to 30 seconds extra against enrage.

 

In all attempts we have done Heirad went down right befor or right after 3rd shield, I never seen 3rd lightning. Problem is transition to phase two is extremely rough for us and we usually start loosing people there (or on second lightning). What are the sources of excessive damage? I can think of tank damage (timing of tank swaps is important), Hairad's random attacks, lightning field, cleaves from Ciphas and Kel'sara. Probably Kel'sara should be tanked away from everyone in phase one (her force-breach-like attack is an AOE I think), tank on Ciphass can DPS Heirad from melee range, slinger shield can be used after lightning slinger rolls, resilience, sage bubbles for lightining. Am I missing something here?

I have not done this fight myself on NiM, but if you are getting increased damage the further you go i would guess your DPS is using AOE skills when you have bosses clease (gunslinger XS for example, sharp bomb). Each damage on anyone else then Hierad will buff damage of other bosses (Ciphas damage other then druing bubble nuke will buff Hierad, and damge to Kelsara will buff Ciphas damage). So it is possible that due to AoE attaks you are stacking both Chipas and Hierad and this makes you take too much damage.

 

I would look thru DPS logs and see how much damage each DPS done to other bosses and when. There should be close to zero DPS on Chipas and Kelsara in phase one.

Edited September 26, 2013 by Macio

We have our 2 snipers drop orbital at start, and then just single target dps, we get it down right after 2nd lightning even, so once our jugg dps returns, we'll get it down before ^^