Also, I commend TrooperClay for the TCW spotting. That Vizsla quote is good. That stuff helps.

Well, there's always been the dispute that some Mandalorians give themselves names based on past glories, and of course, one's Vizsla, one's Vizla.... Eh, we'll see.

Also, I commend TrooperClay for the TCW spotting. That Vizsla quote is good. That stuff helps.

Thanks!

No clones, no force storms, no Dark Empire!

Why would anyone be upset with these changes? By taking it out of continuity, they've neutered the power creep that had been slowly ruining the franchise for decades.

Now, the only force gods are the Ones, and Dala never happened. This is a good time to be a Star wars fan.

No clones, no force storms, no Dark Empire!

 

Why would anyone be upset with these changes? By taking it out of continuity, they've neutered the power creep that had been slowly ruining the franchise for decades.

 

Now, the only force gods are the Ones, and Dala never happened. This is a good time to be a Star wars fan.

I literally couldnt agree more.

Post ROTJ turned into which writer can make their character the most powerful, it had to be stopped.

I literally couldnt agree more.

 

Post ROTJ turned into which writer can make their character the most powerful, it had to be stopped.

I also couldn't literally agree more! Our own Emperor Vitiate is a pretty egregious example of what that sort silliness can lead to! A planet eating eldtrich abomination that wants to consume all life in the galaxy, because that's apparently what's in these days. Raise the stakes too high and it becomes impossible to care.

No clones, no force storms, no Dark Empire!

 

Why would anyone be upset with these changes? By taking it out of continuity, they've neutered the power creep that had been slowly ruining the franchise for decades.

 

Now, the only force gods are the Ones, and Dala never happened. This is a good time to be a Star wars fan.

Personally, I considered the EU becoming non-canon (with respect to future novels/comics/etc - it was always non-canon to the movies) to be inevitable from the moment Episode VII was announced, so I made my peace with it a while ago.

But "Yay, this gets rid of [Thing I don't like] so it's a good thing overall!" just seems like advocating throwing out the baby with the bathwater. You don't declare Empire Strikes Back non-canon because you hate Jar Jar, so you shouldn't want to dump Heir to the Empire for the sake of getting rid of Clone!Palps.

Personally, I considered the EU becoming non-canon (with respect to future novels/comics/etc - it was always non-canon to the movies) to be inevitable from the moment Episode VII was announced, so I made my peace with it a while ago.

 

But "Yay, this gets rid of [Thing I don't like] so it's a good thing overall!" just seems like advocating throwing out the baby with the bathwater. You don't declare Empire Strikes Back non-canon because you hate Jar Jar, so you shouldn't want to dump Heir to the Empire for the sake of getting rid of Clone!Palps.

I don't have to. Dark Empire came out after the Heir trilogy. It's a very good time to be a Star Wars fan.

I don't have to. Dark Empire came out after the Heir trilogy. It's a very good time to be a Star Wars fan.

Not sure what the release order has to do with anything... but okay.

To each their own - I'm happy being a Star Wars Legends fan first and foremost, while at the same time being a Star Wars fan with high hopes for the future of that fictional universe as well.

I just think it will be a loooong time before the new Star Wars canon is as good a universe as the one that includes Thrawn, Mara Jade, Jaina Solo, Pellaeon, Tycho Celchu, Vestara Khai, Baron Fel, Revan, the Chiss, the Sith Empire, The Great Galactic War, the Imperial Knights, and hundreds of other elements that made the Galaxy Far, Far Away a much more interesting setting.

Not sure what the release order has to do with anything... but okay.

.

Zahn's trilogy was fantastic. The only legitimately good post ROTJ books out of that whole mess that merited mainstream regard, and garnered good reviews from actual literary critics, and not people named Wes and Steve on the force.net. The Entire EU built itself around those books like a tick on a dog's calf. More importantly, J.J. Abrams has read and enjoyed those books, so I'm feeling pretty good at the line being excised between the clonepatine mess and all the dbz shenanigans that followed.

I tend to not pick and choose. So for me, its an average game. Is Canon Star Wars better than Legend Star Wars (IMHO, this is just talking, not insulting)? Yeah. For me. Simply because of averages, though SW Canon has the advantage of 99% of its current canon material being extremely well produced and fun to experience, even at its worst.

Are the prequels great movies? No. They have deep rooted structural issues that are far more problematic than a CGI character (even though thats everyone's pain point, which I don't agree with). But you know, those prequels still get played in my house all the time. They feel and sound and move resoundingly like Star Wars. Even at their worst. I put in Revenge of the Sith all the time, even though its my least favorite film out of the 6. Its aesthetics are great though, for Star Wars. Its production is terrific. It has major structural problems (including a movie's worth of exposition put into the last 10 minutes). But that STILL fits the universe better than Dark Empire, or Glove of Darth Vader, or even the Kevin J Anderson TOTJ stuff (which has not aged well, and just isn't very good sequential storytelling to begin with. Its all exposition). Frankly there's even parts of KOTOR 1 that I kind of shrug and go "Yeah, this is a bit off." There's times when KOTOR 1 moves and feels like a Star Trek TOS episode more than Star Wars.

If I throw TCW, and those 6 movies in a basket and jump into a Star Wars month, experiencing that stuff chronologically (plus the Darth Maul comic, which is right now all of the confirmed canon)-- but then adversely I throw 85788438 books, video games, everything from my EU list of chronology in a basket... Well... The new April 25th canon is my preference. I think its resoundingly more Star Wars. That's a big deal. There still are not a whole lot of producers and writers out there that can mimic the FEEL of the Star Wars movies very well. Even Zhan, I would argue. The books are some of the best, and still not as good as the very worst episode of TCW.

I think there's plenty of material, and great SW material, in canon, now that we have TCW.

I typically used to go off of this list, by the way, for my "full Star Wars exploration" prior to April 25th:

http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Timeline_of_Legends_media

Ha. Those dedicated boys and girls have already changed that to be Legends. Its actually cool now they have this:

http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Timeline_of_canon_media

Back on topic (its hard to not just go full throttle into the canon vs legends argument, for sure)... Do I want SWTOR in there? More than anything. I love the game. And honestly-- out of all the EU stuff it is really really one of the few things that is closest to FEELING Star Wars. I want it in there if the powers that be do. If they don't, then I'll play along. It could be that there's some line in Episode 7 where a guy is like "Oh, there's never been an Emperor more powerful than Sidious." Who knows. None of us know their plans, so there could be a valid reason for all of this. I don't think its just "eh, scrap it all because its easy." There's also very little marketing value in doing what they did, so I don't buy that it was a pure business decision. I think they have good reasons. And they really have not let me down much since the start of the "new era of LFL" when they started TCW. That stuff got on track well. So I'm not gonna question it. I just want some heads up one way or the other. Right now it is NOT confirmed as legends, and NOT confirmed as canon. I still think its maybe one singular example of that in the entire EU right now.

Charles Boyd, the head writer, said a tweet on April 25th that sounded like he kind of wasn't sure where it fell either. Something like "whether we're Legends or Canon, I am appreciative for working with all these great people."

Then I just heard today that this week's stream they do of SWTOR (which I think Charles Boyd is a part of) one of that team (or Charles, I dunno, I heard this second hand since I missed the stream) said the story group does not constrain them, and they are able to write pretty open ended.

So, that kind of isn't a definitive thing. But to me it sounds like its still up in the air, or indeed it is the ONLY piece of Legends that is ongoing with new Legends content.

Really, for me, at this point, I think unless Charles Boyd or Bioware make a statement, its kind of like waiting for the next big expansion and seeing if the story group's credit is on that one or how they handle things.

Charles Boyd, the head writer, said a tweet on April 25th that sounded like he kind of wasn't sure where it fell either. Something like "whether we're Legends or Canon, I am appreciative for working with all these great people."

 

Then I just heard today that this week's stream they do of SWTOR (which I think Charles Boyd is a part of) one of that team (or Charles, I dunno, I heard this second hand since I missed the stream) said the story group does not constrain them, and they are able to write pretty open ended.

 

So, that kind of isn't a definitive thing. But to me it sounds like its still up in the air, or indeed it is the ONLY piece of Legends that is ongoing with new Legends content.

 

Really, for me, at this point, I think unless Charles Boyd or Bioware make a statement, its kind of like waiting for the next big expansion and seeing if the story group's credit is on that one or how they handle things.

that isn't exactly what he said. you can watch the twitch stream and hear what he said. its pretty close to the beginning of the stream, so you don't have to sit through the whole thing to hear what was said about story group.

Yeah, glad I watched it. It's pretty much the opposite of what I read someone else paraphrase. It's kind of hard to hear what he says over the game, but from Charles Boyd's reply, I can ascertain:

- The SWTOR team DOES send stuff to the story group and interact with them.

- Says they are cool to work with.

- They mostly check to make sure that stuff "fits."

It's still not a positive assertion that SWTOR is Legends or Canon. It could be that the story group is just monitoring SWTOR because things are still uncertain. Who knows. But at least we do know that the Story Group credit isn't lip service, or just a legal thing. And that even after April 25th's announcement, they still do interact. The Story Group is still overseeing SWTOR for some reason.

Interesting to hear than SWTOR's involvement with the Story Group is legitimate. Nice find.

Hopeful if nothing else, I think with Disney at the helm, and their known hunger for credits, might just be that we are closer to a TOR movie or TV series then we ever been ...

Wrong. The distinction of C-Canon, and Legends is frustrating, because "C-Canon" sometimes DID have direct Lucas involvement (Timothy Zahn books, Clone Wars novels, Boba Fett, etc.) that was later referenced or retconned into T-Canon. Also, most games and novels needed Lucasfilm approval, which usually meant the go ahead from Lucas. You should see the list of books that were shelved.

The new story group has also stated that while Legends is no longer considered canon, they will likely incorporate certain Legends (characters, planets, history, certain story lines, etc.) into the new storyline. I refuse to buy the line, that if Lucas didn't directly do it, it didn't count. Which is a completely false statement in it's entirety. Lucas had LOTS of involvement in the direction of the EU universe, which is why C-Canon was STILL considered Canon (at the time), only N and D were entirely NOT canon. With the distinction from the story group, I would say that SWTOR story will be written from now on with their approval, and anything wrote prior, will technically be considered Legends, like KOTOR, but will be considered in new canon as historical preludes. There is even rumors that Darth Vitiate, the current Sith Emperor, will in fact have a historical influence on the villain in the new movies. So while this still has the hallmarks of speculation, I believe they are rational assumptions with enough evidence to be legitimate predictions. Though the Darth Vitiate thing, we will have to see. I wouldn't be surprised however, Abrams has the largest collection of Star Wars figurines in Hollywood, and has expressed publicly that he was and is a Star Wars geek. SO I think his respect for canon and EU is likely very much there.

I was personally hurt with the announcement of Legends, mainly because I came to love so many of the EU characters and stories even more than the movies. It is heartbreaking to spend so many days and hours being absorbed into it, and then finding out that the new installments in the future are going to be something different than what you once believed was a true and established continuity. I was ANGRY at the nerve seemingly being displayed by Disney, to come out and de-legitimatize all of this, just because they passed some money around. I am sad, that the new movies/video games/books will likely not have Jacen/Jaina/Anakin Solo, Kyp Duron, Mara Jade, Corran Horn, Ben Skywalker, Kyle Katarn, and many, many others. Though like I stated, you never know, the story group does intend to use some Legends rewritten as canon.

But, I admit, my opinion is changing. First, it's common knowledge that to get movies produced you have to play the Hollywood game. In that game, there are many things taken in consideration, much more than just what the established communities opinion is going to be. When producing new movies, it's not usually wise to try and screen adapt several hundred novels and establish a continuity like what the EU has. It is probably impossible, and what is more impossible is doing it without screwing it up in some way, shape or form. Many of us have to finally admit, that it is going to have to be more focused from now on like the original author of this post said. There is some real good things coming out of this that may even be better than the old established lore. I believe the story group will make many strides to accommodate us, and perhaps re-establish some of our Legends into the new canon, and I look forward to it. It is very encouraging that SWTOR, in my opinion, will actually be written as canon or at least relative to it in some ways. It is also encouraging that this sort of reboot/renig what ever you want to call it, is going to spawn more movies, more video games, and more books etc. Which means another 20-30 years of Star Wars relevance that your kids, and maybe even their kids can enjoy. There are rumors of another Star Wars MMO in the works that will be canon, and is going to be in development shortly so we may actually see an announcement for it in the near but distant future. And that this MMO will likely include SWTOR lore, with references to our current characters.

When all is said and done, as far as I am concerned SWTOR is canon, and will continue to be till they finish, since none of it's story does or is likely to contradict anything included in current canon. The story group also has the ability to make sure it remains canon from now on. So don't worry guys. Thanks.