the worst thing in this is that better the class is no brain to play, better it's OP.

PT AP, madness sorc, healer sorc...so easy to play..so OP

BW needs to manage this.

ps : even for MM spec

Unnerf Operatives!

/Signed

Unnerf Sorcs/Sages!

/Signed

Unnerf Sorcs/Sages!

 

/Signed

^This

/signed

Could probably have done a bit less singling out PTs but I pretty much agree on toning down some burst damage and heals and getting more in favor of mitigation to be less healer dependent in general.

 

 

/signed.

Thing is, if they nerf PT's and the like that are at the top atm I simply don't see NiM dps checks happening in the future. For PvE they'd need to bring up the most classes to the level of PT's and snipers, not the other way around.

Anyway /signed.

Hi there,

my 2 cts on this:

The dummy parses don't concern me, they're insubstantial when it coes to boss fights. The thing that matters are boss parses. Boss parses are about uptime while handling the mechanics. That is where balance must strike. AAnd it doesn't atm.

Looking at the skills you see that (apart from a very well played engineer) the highest damage output comes from classes with great mobility or great damage mitigation (thus ignoring mechanics in order to not move) in combination with the 30% buff on surge (yeah i know, doesnt exist anymore ).

3.x I had some of the the highest boss parses with my scoundrel, some bosses i topped gunners or sages some i didnt, but overall it was BALANCED.

4.0 no matter what I do how much I concentrate, I'm simply unable to do so, same goes for guardian, sage, etc.. There simply is no way to beat a gunslinger or AP PT, and not only that you're a fair margin behind. For the real dps checks in this game (as is mentioned many times in this thread) some classes may succeed, but they do not contribute enough.

So, yes, there IS a balance problem.

/signed

P.S.: engineering is great, but for some bosses e.g. Kephess TfB Nim, simply not viable

P.S.: engineering is great, but for some bosses e.g. Kephess TfB Nim, simply not viable

Becomes a lot more viable if your tanks cooperate and understand how your various cooldowns interact. Easier to use Marksmanship, certainly, and probably no DPS loss to do so, but Engineering is certainly possible on Kephess (and several other bosses which initially seem hostile to it).

The dummy parses don't concern me, they're insubstantial when it coes to boss fights. The thing that matters are boss parses.

While this is true, the problem with it is, that the dummy is the only environment that is comparable. It offers the same conditions for every class. A boss fight on the other hand can vary big time because there are special tasks that let's you either do more dps(can't think of an example right now:o) or things that keep you from dpsing properly, like kiting Raptus on council, or running the bombs/barrels on Walkers/Bulo.

Of course Dummy dps don't translate to a real boss fight 1:1. The problem we have right now is that we have a spec like AP PT, that not only looses next to no dps due to movement or being out of melee range as a melee class in comparison to the dummy, it's quite the contrary. In a lot of fights AP can even do more dps than on a Dummy due to Close and Personal and Pyroshield. And that's one of the easiest to play and highest parsing spec? While Vengeance Juggs for example get the shaft when it comes to movement heavy fights/phases (Brontes final Phase, Dread Guard Kel'sara, Kephess can be a pain to etc) because as a 4m melee class they rely on a 3 second channel every ~11 seconds. And this is a class that parses almost 1k dps lower than AP under optimal circumstances(read Dummy). Somethings definitely not right here.

Dummy parses vs boss parses? Here's what I've personally experienced. I had a Vengeance Jugg in full min/maxed 198 gear that I brought to Revan. With essence corruption and malevolent force bond, my first phase DPS at best was probably 3.5k. In the single unluckiest pull I've ever had, I had four double stacks of essence corruption in a row (with a 1/65000 chance of that happening) in addition to subsequent single stacks and a force bond, bringing down my DPS to around 2k. My AP PT, a 50/50 mix of 192s/198s topped out at 4.2k, with some of my lowest pulls at around 3.2k if I had to Grapple a blade or two.

Now how about Core phase? The highest I ever parsed on my AP PT was about 620k on the Machine Core. The highest I parsed on my Vengeance Jugg was about 480k, and that only happened because my entire team except for me and a sorc healer died to a heave (thank god for saber reflect) and I burned the final 60k or so alone. Had I been on my PT for that pull, we never would have even seen the heave that killed most of the group. So please, go ahead and tell me how a burst ranged spec (because anybody who tells you a PT is melee is only kidding themselves) with a rotation made up entirely of instants is balanced compared to the sustained melee spec with a 3 second self root every 11 or so seconds depending on how much alacrity you stack.

These two toons essentially parsed the same on a dummy, with approximately 50-100 DPS higher on the PT at the time. In equal gear, the PT would have blown the jugg out of the water. Now in 4.0, the difference is even greater. These are the things that forced me to run AP PT for Revan pre nerf, and that will force me to run AP PT for future progression first kills.

Becomes a lot more viable if your tanks cooperate and understand how your various cooldowns interact. Easier to use Marksmanship, certainly, and probably no DPS loss to do so, but Engineering is certainly possible on Kephess (and several other bosses which initially seem hostile to it).

Okay, true, but as you said, MM is as much viable without putting an effort like this into it

Our Main HM/Nim tank for example regards Gunslingers as "boring, siiting-around classes" so I think it'd take a lot of time to teach him

While this is true, the problem with it is, that the dummy is the only environment that is comparable. It offers the same conditions for every class. A boss fight on the other hand can vary big time because there are special tasks that let's you either do more dps(can't think of an example right now:o) or things that keep you from dpsing properly, like kiting Raptus on council, or running the bombs/barrels on Walkers/Bulo.

Of course Dummy dps don't translate to a real boss fight 1:1. The problem we have right now is that we have a spec like AP PT, that not only looses next to no dps due to movement or being out of melee range as a melee class in comparison to the dummy, it's quite the contrary. In a lot of fights AP can even do more dps than on a Dummy due to Close and Personal and Pyroshield. And that's one of the easiest to play and highest parsing spec? While Vengeance Juggs for example get the shaft when it comes to movement heavy fights/phases (Brontes final Phase, Dread Guard Kel'sara, Kephess can be a pain to etc) because as a 4m melee class they rely on a 3 second channel every ~11 seconds. And this is a class that parses almost 1k dps lower than AP under optimal circumstances(read Dummy). Somethings definitely not right here.

Hey, I'm with ya

Seriously: You put it more elaborately than I did, but in essence, these are my thoughts excactly

think I might have already posted in this but...I'll sign it again for the sake of my veng jug and conceal op lolol, I made a free 60 sniper cause...well...I already had every class/toon I wanted and no idea what to do with it just to try out the engi spec and see what was up with the fotm. lolol in bout 30 min tops after hitting 65 it was mastered....rediculously easy.

PT is just stupid with the up close and personal in most encounters that have aoe ticks of some sort and they are not hindered at all from being out of melee range. I don't even vote they nerf these classes...other classes that they raped away the 30% crit dmg buffs from are generally the ones that got kilt with this expansion. anni mara is so easy now it's stupid, carnage, even with less abilities is actually far more difficult to play properly. I don't main a conceal op or scrapper scoun, but I do enjoy the class. in my opinion...deception assassin and most definitely the conceal operative should be 1 and 2 on single target dps...period. with conceal being the top.....because their AoE dmg is beyond a sad joke....it's so bad it is literally a waste of energy to use any of your aoe dmg skills. you'll do more dps in add fights just single targeting things down. and with this expansion, you're single target dmg sucks now too.

pve operative dps were near non existent before the update...now....they are like a unicorn riding a dinosaur in time square. EAware's current combat team has got to be one of the worst I have seen in any mmo over the past decade. I mean classes experience imbalances in other games all the time too...but usually not to the extent that they are rendered completely useless in raid content. that is just pure incompetence.

but anyways, I could sit here and tell you how annoyed I am, but plenty of solid games...nothing amazing...but yea, plenty of solid games coming in spring so I can drop sub to this debacle of an mmo. Let's face it....if this wasn't Star Wars, no one would be here lol

I don't main a conceal op or scrapper scoun, but I do enjoy the class. in my opinion...deception assassin and most definitely the conceal operative should be 1 and 2 on single target dps...period. with conceal being the top.....because their AoE dmg is beyond a sad joke....it's so bad it is literally a waste of energy to use any of your aoe dmg skills. you'll do more dps in add fights just single targeting things down. and with this expansion, you're single target dmg sucks now too.l

So you want 2 burst specs to be the top dps in this game ? yeah no, tho i do agree a lot of classes have to be buffed. Nerfing pt's/snipers and whatnot will just result in harder to kill sorcs/sages in pvp and nim dps checks to be close to impossible. Buff other classes, don't nerf things ( and if they do nerf classes, do it gently please)

So... ah... you guys seen the new balance patch?

Everyone gets nerfed except for Tank Juggs.

info can be found on torcommunity or reddit

Edit: snip. Link wasn't to datamined content. It was to torcommunities database page. But whatever.

So... ah... you guys seen the new balance patch?

 

snip

Get rid of that link. Do you want to get this thread deleted?

Not sure why the Arsenal merc is not receiving any attention.

They are doing very well, from what I could tell on Parsely. And they are a burst ranged class, just like marksman.

They also have a 30% crit boost to rail shot, hsm and priming shot.

I'd expect Arsenal Merc's will take a crit nerf in the next balance patch, the only reason they weren't hit this patch is because dps wise Arsenal was on par/behind IO in parses unlike AP/MM which were outperforming there sustained dps counterparts.

Oh and not being fotm helps to.

Not sure why the Arsenal merc is not receiving any attention.

 

They are doing very well, from what I could tell on Parsely. And they are a burst ranged class, just like marksman.

 

They also have a 30% crit boost to rail shot, hsm and priming shot.

Here's your answer:

http://parsely.io/parser/leaderboard/all/marksmanship/1500000/all/live/1/

vs.

http://parsely.io/parser/leaderboard/all/arsenal/1500000/all/live/1/

Marksman 130 ahead on #1 and 300 at #10 or #20 - not even considering that some Arsenal parses prestack Rail Shot stacks, which isn't possible for raid encounters.

They're going for the right specs, except for Assassin (nerf is purely PvP). And they failed to buff Lightning.

Here's your answer:

 

http://parsely.io/parser/leaderboard/all/marksmanship/1500000/all/live/1/

 

vs.

 

http://parsely.io/parser/leaderboard/all/arsenal/1500000/all/live/1/

 

 

Marksman 130 ahead on #1 and 300 at #10 or #20 - not even considering that some Arsenal parses prestack Rail Shot stacks, which isn't possible for raid encounters.

 

 

They're going for the right specs, except for Assassin (nerf is purely PvP). And they failed to buff Lightning.

Could I say the same for snipers who prestack 3 stacks of snipe? Or that there are simply more snipers who parse and upload (because they did well at start of 4.0)?

Anyway my point is, after the nerfs across the board, the 3 burst ranged classes are marksman, lightning then arsenal (lowest to highest).

Arsenal is outputting way higher than it should be, at the current state (not just the 3 ranged classes). Yet, it enjoys higher mobility unlike the marksman. Which is why I am talking about the fact that Arsenal is still keeping its 30% crit dmg boost.

They're going for the right specs, except for Assassin (nerf is purely PvP). And they failed to buff Lightning.

You should really go take a look at the pvp forums, they're complaining as much as pve'rs and don't understand either why Assassins were nerfed.

Arsenal probably needs to lose 100-150 dps. Anything more than that would be excessive, MM probably needs another 200 dps buff, lightening as well.

Especially since Arsenal rotation is pure face roll.