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Necrotiq

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Sadly it will probably come down to solo rankeds...which IMO waters down end game PvP.

 

They NEED a ladder system for 8 man GROUPS...which is based on team ELO that appropriately matches teams against one another. ATM, there is no match-making, it is first come, first in que matching. Thus, why teams/guilds tend to not que up, because they don't want to get wrecked by the 2-3 solid teams waiting. If they introduce solo rankeds or anything less than 8...which functions on the same ELO...that'll probably be it for me in TOR.

 

Yeah I figured as much but hearing it from them sooner rather than later would be nice....but I hear yeah I'm definitely not as optimistic as I would like to be about it. Hopefully we will hear something a little more concrete.

Edited by shednik
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Even though it is too early to share specifics I can say that Game Update 2.4 as it is being worked on right now has features and changes that should cause a significant improvement of queue times for ranked Warzones in particular. Emphasis on significant!

4 man groups? Come one! It's not worth of 4 months of waiting!

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sorry but competative PvP is a myth in MMOs. the "hardcore" PvPers are simply the QQ brigade that cry they have to roll the new FOTM because the old one is no longer over powered.

 

I'm going to agree with Hizoka on this one.

 

Further... hard core PvP are notoriously disloyal to MMOs. They can, and do, MMO hop to get their PvP fix and they are vocal and veonomous toward the MMO dev teams wherever they hang their hat at any given moment.

 

Besides, hardcore PvPers thinking they can stear and drive this games development team is the height of arrogance IMO. It's a PvE game... with some PvP bolted on as a minigame for people wanting a PvP fix. It has never been anything more then this, and likely never will be. This is not a hardcore PvP MMO... so expecting a hardcore PvP play theme is extremely misplaced IMO.

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Guys, leave your hope. Any MMO is a 'making-money machine'. What brings the most money? Correct!

The New recolored set in Cartel Market that was in the game since release! And yeah, most of the player-base is a PvE'ers.

 

The fact that 10% of the audience really enjoy PvP in this game, can be neglected.

Edited by GNWP
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Is this near as big a deal with super servers? With many dozens of servers (e.g. WoW, SWTOR 2011) then cross-server is a big benefit. With super-servers, this seems like a much smaller issue. Is it people on RP-PV? servers that need a larger pool.
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I'm going to agree with Hizoka on this one.

 

Of course you would, you don't understand PvP, not really all that shocking lol.

 

The rest of the post was grade A comedy though...

Edited by Pistols
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It's a PvE game... with some PvP bolted on as a minigame for people wanting a PvP fix. It has never been anything more then this, and likely never will be.

 

Just to show how bad the above hyperbole is...have a read.

 

Over 1 Million WZ's played the first week after launch; wonder how many since then.... Clearly just a few people wanting that PvP fix...clearly only a little...such a minigame fo sho!

 

:rolleyes:

Edited by Pistols
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And yeah, most of the player-base is a PvE'ers. The fact that 10% of the audience really enjoy PvP in this game, can be neglected.

 

It's a PvE game... with some PvP bolted on as a minigame for people wanting a PvP fix. It has never been anything more then this, and likely never will be. This is not a hardcore PvP MMO... so expecting a hardcore PvP play theme is extremely misplaced IMO.

 

Just like kids playing in little league, many competitive MMO PvPers dream that their arenas of choice will become an e-sport. Ohlen called PvP in SWTOR a surprise hit. He admitted that he was was disappointed in Ilum not just because it did not work as it was intended but also because it "over-shadowed the fact that we had such an amazing level-up experience with the warzones. The warzone experience is very compelling. [Players] want more features. We really want to turn the PvP game almost into an e-sport."

 

He opened the door; I had to step through. I wanted to hear about BioWare's plans to create that e-sports feel out of SWTOR's warzones. Suggestions like spectator mode and stat tracking were well-received. "PvP has become one of those things that retains players. Doing things like spectator mode and obviously stat-tracking are things that players want to see. I'm not promising that stuff right away, but we do have a PvP team. And they are devoted to providing new features throughout the year."

 

Source: Joystiq

 

I don't know about you, but that doesn't sound like they thought PVP was some little "mini-game" people do to entertain themselves. Especially that part about "retains players". In fact, during the same month that interview was published, the developers confirmed that only 38% of the Level 50 population had ever done an operation at the 2012 Guild Summit. So about two out of every five players had done end-game PVE content 4 months after launch (you'd think it would be much higher if no one did anything other than PVE).

 

Now yes, things have changed. For one, the game is F2P. For another, absolutely none of the things they mentioned in that interview were ever implemented ("spectator mode" and "stat tracking"). In fairness, it does say that they didn't promise those things "right away". So let's look at what the PVP team "devoted" to providing content and features "throughout the year" added between April 2012 and December 2012:

 

 

  • A new warzone, Ancient Hypergates, in 1.6 (December 2012)

 

Yep. One bulletpoint of new content/features. The list of what we've lost or haven't gotten is actually longer (Ilum, cross-server ranked, Season 1 of ranked, class balance changes that occur every 6 months or so at best). Everything else has been exactly the same since April 2012. I guess you could count new tiers of gear as new stuff, too, but it was really only there to keep PVP gear in line with new PVE gear (which is now FUBAR thanks to Bolster).

 

Looking back at that interview really just shows how far Bioware has fallen...

Edited by SpaniardInfinity
Grammar OCD
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Nice list Kilora!

 

Even though it is too early to share specifics I can say that Game Update 2.4 as it is being worked on right now has features and changes that should cause a significant improvement of queue times for ranked Warzones in particular. Emphasis on significant!

 

:jawa_smile:

 

Lemme guess...solo queuing is going to be the bulk of your "big PvP update"?

 

Geezus Bruce...I sure hope you have a LOT more up your sleeve than this because if that is what you have in mind, it will be a massive disappointment.

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I'm going to agree with Hizoka on this one.

 

Further... hard core PvP are notoriously disloyal to MMOs. They can, and do, MMO hop to get their PvP fix and they are vocal and veonomous toward the MMO dev teams wherever they hang their hat at any given moment.

 

Besides, hardcore PvPers thinking they can stear and drive this games development team is the height of arrogance IMO. It's a PvE game... with some PvP bolted on as a minigame for people wanting a PvP fix. It has never been anything more then this, and likely never will be. This is not a hardcore PvP MMO... so expecting a hardcore PvP play theme is extremely misplaced IMO.

 

It is amazing some of the **** people say when they don't have intelligence on a subject.

 

PVP thrives on the PVP system and if it is good, we will keep playing. We don't need content or a chance to get the color we want for our gear. Most of the PVE gamers I play with leave and return when content gets released.

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I'm going to agree with Hizoka on this one.

 

Further... hard core PvP are notoriously disloyal to MMOs. They can, and do, MMO hop to get their PvP fix and they are vocal and veonomous toward the MMO dev teams wherever they hang their hat at any given moment.

 

Besides, hardcore PvPers thinking they can stear and drive this games development team is the height of arrogance IMO. It's a PvE game... with some PvP bolted on as a minigame for people wanting a PvP fix. It has never been anything more then this, and likely never will be. This is not a hardcore PvP MMO... so expecting a hardcore PvP play theme is extremely misplaced IMO.

 

May I ask what you get out of commenting on every pvp thread where we talk about features we would like? You never have anything positive or constructive to say when it comes to pvp. Yet you criticize everyone else for any comments or suggestions they might make.

 

I'm really beginning to wonder if you just wait for a pvp thread to come up so you can go into it and tell them to suck it up and be happy that there is even any pvp in the game.

Edited by shednik
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Nice list Kilora!

 

While the exact details of which features will make Game Update 2.4 are still being hardened I can definitely say that Cross-Server Queueing is not in the plan for it. We've taken a hard look at Cross Server Queuing in the past and accomplishing it is a *significant* challenge that would take a lot of time away from other things we are working on. Emphasis on significant. It's not forever off the table but it's not in the plan right now.

 

Even though it is too early to share specifics I can say that Game Update 2.4 as it is being worked on right now has features and changes that should cause a significant improvement of queue times for ranked Warzones in particular. Emphasis on significant!

 

:jawa_smile:

 

Bruce, the time has come where you need to tell us a couple of the things that ARE going to be in the patch. We need something to look forward to, because right now, there is nothing. You can't just say "OMG NEW PATCH AWESOME STUFF YOULL LOVE IT" and then not say what any of it is.

 

Well, you can... and you did... and I among others unsubbed (I uninstalled, too) because that's a hint to me that you guys don't even know.

 

Give us something concrete and you'll win me back. Otherwise, I will find something else to occupy my free time and spare change.

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Bruce, the time has come where you need to tell us a couple of the things that ARE going to be in the patch. We need something to look forward to, because right now, there is nothing. You can't just say "OMG NEW PATCH AWESOME STUFF YOULL LOVE IT" and then not say what any of it is.

 

Well, you can... and you did... and I among others unsubbed (I uninstalled, too) because that's a hint to me that you guys don't even know.

 

Give us something concrete and you'll win me back. Otherwise, I will find something else to occupy my free time and spare change.

 

Or, you could just wait 3-4 months. Because, if you actually unsubbed and uninstalled, you won't be playing until the patch hits anyway. Patience. It's a virtue.

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Without soundig to negative do you guys even understand how players think ?

When players cant play and que times are long they leave the game.

When it is only casuals left because you killed off the competetive PvP community you have NO PvP community.

 

Saying this because i care and want to play SWTOR PvP on a server with really good PvP.

 

Lol, 'without sounding negative..........' yeah, too late.

 

While you're accusing EA/Bioware of not understanding, what YOU seem to think is that the SWTOR world revolves around you. News flash, it doesn't. Those 'casuals' you're talking about, they way out number you and pay the bills at EA. So guess who the game does and always will revolve around? And that's whether you like it or not, whether you understand it or not.

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We've taken a hard look at Cross Server Queuing in the past and accomplishing it is a *significant* challenge that would take a lot of time away from other things we are working on. Emphasis on significant. It's not forever off the table but it's not in the plan right now.

 

Ya it's such a *significant* challenge that practically every other mmo out there has it, even the mediocre ones, yet a AAA title such as swtor (can we even consider it a AAA anymore?) can't even manage it? Maybe you guys should higher engineers with actual experience instead of having interns still in college running your servers? It's quite sad that this game is going on two years old and still lacks a feature that is pretty much becoming a standard in the MMO world. And with server transfers (stupid idea to implement this imo as there is only 8 NA servers now) everyone is going to move to bastion/pot5 and its going to kill pvp on all the other servers.

 

Honestly I'm about done with this game. I love star wars, and that's about the only thing that kept me around...and this game BARELY feels like star wars. If it wasn't for the lightsabers I'd probably think it was some cheap knockoff game. I mean, don't get me wrong, I enjoy how combat works...when the games engine cooperates and doesn't hitch with double GCD's or double animations or when the servers desync and I end up 10m away after I leap, or I get rubberbanded back to a root after I force speed or...ya you get the idea.

 

It was a fun 2 years, but really, I'm just waiting for FFXIV:ARR (please be good PLEASE!) and if thats a flop...well I'm screwed I guess lol, but I sure as hell wont be coming back to this game unless the content updates take a huge step in the right direction. Too bad they wont and everything will continue to revolve around the CM while subs get shafted every update (lol @ charging subs to unlock stuff from the collection tab).

 

Even though it is too early to share specifics I can say that Game Update 2.4 as it is being worked on right now has features and changes that should cause a significant improvement of queue times for ranked Warzones in particular. Emphasis on significant!

 

It's a stab in the dark here, but maybe, just maybe, you guys should put a bit more effort into sharing information with your player base. I mean would it really kill you guys to show a timeline? No one expects it to be perfect but some info is better than the answers you always give (meaning you give us no answers).

 

You guys should go look at FF14 lodestone page and see what they do for some tips. Not only did the lead developer release a monthly letter telling people whats going on in development, they also released timelines with a massive list of planned/current/notes for patch updates MONTHS in advance(I'd link for an example but you guys would probably remove it but these timelines were like 3 pages long), and official polls asking players what they would like in the future and releasing graphs of player responses and actually implementing stuff from those polls.

 

They released videos of new content all while fixing a broken game they had taken over from the dev team that was fired while also REBUILDING the entire game from the ground up. Yes they were patching a game while also redevloping that game in the background all while the game was not charging subscriptions for over a year.

 

You guys could learn a lot from that dev team in terms of interaction with the community and REAL info on future development plans. It would be nice to know what kind of content we are getting instead of the carrot and stick of "wait and see." I'm tired of that and I really don't feel like putting up with it anymore.

 

/rant that ended up being way to long but I felt like ranting.

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Or, you could just wait 3-4 months. Because, if you actually unsubbed and uninstalled, you won't be playing until the patch hits anyway. Patience. It's a virtue.

 

Some of your posts are as bad as Andryah's honestly...the guy wants something to look forward to with the upcoming pvp updates. You don't have any issues because they gave a rough outline of what's to come on the PVE side whether it's well received or not atleast the PVErs have a decent idea of what to expect. PvPers on the other hand only have the promise it will be great with zero substance other than something consider a key component won't be included.

 

Yeah I'm not loyal or anything I've only played since beta and been a sub since early access, that's not being loyal and patient with a game I guess.

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Ya it's such a *significant* challenge that practically every other mmo out there has it, even the mediocre ones, yet a AAA title such as swtor (can we even consider it a AAA anymore?) can't even manage it? Maybe you guys should higher engineers with actual experience instead of having interns still in college running your servers? It's quite sad that this game is going on two years old and still lacks a feature that is pretty much becoming a standard in the MMO world.

 

Please, try not to talk about things as if you have knowledge of them, when you don't.

 

EVERY other MMO does NOT have cross-server. NO other MMO is using the same engine. NO other MMO is written in the same way. NO other MMO was developed from the ground-up the same way. NO other MMO, that I'm aware of, has both Cross-server AND this small of a dev team.

 

It's great that you think these things are easy. I'd love to see you get a job with BW and implement them.

 

If not, consider keeping moronic comments like that to yourself. I'd love to see you tell a Doctor that open-heart surgery is "easy" and every other cardiologist does it, so why can't he.

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Some of your posts are as bad as Andryah's honestly...the guy wants something to look forward to with the upcoming pvp updates. You don't have any issues because they gave a rough outline of what's to come on the PVE side whether it's well received or not atleast the PVErs have a decent idea of what to expect. PvPers on the other hand only have the promise it will be great with zero substance other than something consider a key component won't be included.

 

Yeah I'm not loyal or anything I've only played since beta and been a sub since early access, that's not being loyal and patient with a game I guess.

 

 

They've already said you won't get the information. You WERE at least told that something was coming.

 

IF someone already uninstalled and unsubbed -- they have NO right to come in and complain. The PvPers who are sticking it out and still subbing? Sure -- I think they should get info. But, that doesn't mean they will.

 

Honeslty, you should worry less about other peoples opinions, and more about your own happiness. If you don't like the game, leave. Like any actual mature adult would.

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Unless you plan to open up a ranked server were people from all servers can copy over chars for free

were they can play ranked this is nothing but a disaster for the game !!!

Agreed. While BW insists on remaining mum on this, I expect it will be their solution.

 

how will que times be lower i dont get it, magic ? why should people stay and play ranked when so many have left

and even more people will leave because there is no pvp updates until close to christmas and there will

be no cross play.Reality check plis.

 

A huge reason many people don't queue rated is because the 8-man they can put together is weak and they don't see the point is having their 950 rated team curb stomped by a 2000+ team. If BW gave the queuing team the option to say

  • don't match me against a team that is +/- 500 (or some rating number of your chosing) because I'd rather not play a boring pointless WZ

 

I think you would see a lot more teams queuing up for rated. I know I'd rather roll in an 8-man with a terrible composition but all 8 players are in voice chat than play regs because it is simply more fun to have everyone in chat.

 

Currently my guild's A-team composition gets rolled by the better rated guilds but we can have a good match against the other meh teams and we beat some of them regularly. There is no way we are queuing with an awful composition, especially when we know the better teams are queuing. Also, the better teams will often queue up to farm when they hear a weak team is running. This farming increases the number of horribly lopsided matches.

 

There are lots of ways to balance things. You could have an option to play XvY (where X < Y) when the ratings are too disparate. I don't think you can use an XvY result as input to the rating system but it would be fun if it is actually a competitive match and you could still give out rewards.

 

Too many horribly lopsided matches kill the community. If BW gives us options to avoid most (ideally all) horribly lopsided matches then the PvP WZ community will flourish.

Edited by funkiestj
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They've already said you won't get the information. You WERE at least told that something was coming.

 

IF someone already uninstalled and unsubbed -- they have NO right to come in and complain. The PvPers who are sticking it out and still subbing? Sure -- I think they should get info. But, that doesn't mean they will.

 

Honeslty, you should worry less about other peoples opinions, and more about your own happiness. If you don't like the game, leave. Like any actual mature adult would.

 

I think you're missing my point and not looking at their past track record with promises. You agree we should get info but that we more then likely won't, well if the community doesn't show that they need more info to continue playing the game then we never will. If the community wants something more communication wise then they have to come together and tell BW that in a positive and constructive way.

 

Do you reply in the same manner to PVErs who are unhappy with the level of detail they got for the upcoming patches? As for your opinion you're right it's yours and I have my own, we're both welcome to it...posting it on a forum however someone may comment on it. That doesn't mean I'm worried about it or upset, just pointing some things out is all. I've already decided I will wait for this PvP update before I make my decision on what to do but I still would like to have a better idea of what I'm waiting for.

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Without soundig to negative do you guys even understand how players think ?

When players cant play and que times are long they leave the game.

When it is only casuals left because you killed off the competetive PvP community you have NO PvP community.

 

Saying this because i care and want to play SWTOR PvP on a server with really good PvP.

 

Shut your pie hole kid. Damn near every single one of these folks plays the game just the same as "players" do. They are us.

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Please, try not to talk about things as if you have knowledge of them, when you don't.

 

EVERY other MMO does NOT have cross-server. NO other MMO is using the same engine. NO other MMO is written in the same way. NO other MMO was developed from the ground-up the same way. NO other MMO, that I'm aware of, has both Cross-server AND this small of a dev team.

 

It's great that you think these things are easy. I'd love to see you get a job with BW and implement them.

 

If not, consider keeping moronic comments like that to yourself. I'd love to see you tell a Doctor that open-heart surgery is "easy" and every other cardiologist does it, so why can't he.

 

So here I'll actually agree with you to a point, this wouldn't be as simple as it has been stated but something that would be doable with the proper infrastructure built out for it. Without understanding the application structure all of this is just speculation though, so I'll agree it's more so the development resources available that is the real constraint here.

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