I hope the changes to deception allow the class to do more sustained DPS; even if it comes at the expense of some burst.

 

I had to switch to Madness because the increased amount of DPS after the first to second rotation was too high to ignore. Plus, I play madness fairly well.

 

To the PTS to test things out.

Well to be fair they did nerf the crap out of the hybrid immortal vengeance spec. Unstoppable only works in Shien now.

 

I still think Deception sins will have a place in ranked because our skills will help burst more than other classes. Just kind of going to be boring since all our dmg is gonna be around mauling and discharge. I think with alacrity we'll be able to keep pretty decent dps. I think on whole most of the fights are gonna be a lot longer since you'll notice most of the low endurance high power enchantments are gone from the new sets.

 

You'll still see a few ppl run around in hybrid darkness/madness, but meh the top tier talents in darkness are pretty useful now.

The one thing I can say is awesome about the changes is how much panic phase walk is causing...they already want it removed from the game lol.

The one thing I can say is awesome about the changes is how much panic phase walk is causing...they already want it removed from the game lol.

 

you should see the massive **** storm the new sniper stealth detection has provoked, which by the way is easily counterable by concealment and detection and any stealther with a brain.

 

Here is how you counter the new 30 stacks of stealth detection snipers:

http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=601081

 

You only need to come withing 15m range from them with Sneak and +5 stealth talent, then force speed behind them and quickly open with spike or just any opener you would prefer.

Edited February 21, 2013 by NoTomorrow

you should see the massive **** storm the new sniper stealth detection has provoked, which by the way is easily counterable by concealment and detection and any stealther with a brain.

 

Here is how you counter the new 30 stacks of stealth detection snipers:

http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=601081

 

You only need to come withing 15m range from them with Sneak and +5 stealth talent, then force speed behind them and quickly open with spike or just any opener you would prefer.

 

Well that's how I kinda see it. While I lose whatever surprise I have I should be able to get into melee range with force speed which I guess I can live with.

Ok looking at the new skill trees I am loving madness so far. Here is an updated skill tree calculator. Now I have something to play around with at work for the rest of the day.

Since the Phase Walk is giving to Assassin as a whole, I'd love to see how it impacts tanking, it allows you to teleport right to the right spot when you need it. Lovely.

full madness is now completely useless. no maul or bonus melee damage makes it entirely inferior to sorcs.

Ok looking at the new skill trees I am loving madness so far. Here is an updated skill tree calculator. Now I have something to play around with at work for the rest of the day.

 

I love you (no ****)

 

I've seen some potential good build like (PvP)

 

0/31/15 in surging charge

0/20/26 in lighning charge

18/0/28 in lighning charge

36/9/1 in Dark charge

36/8/2 in Dark charge

 

36/8/2 have a good potention imo because your dps will be based on shock and face to face maul and Energize and Conspirator's cloak can proc from trash and assassinate. Plus Energize can proc from maul and the face to face maul is a good thing to have.

This build also have HD for self heal,Overcharge saber for defense and I will try it with a shield generator in full dps gear to begin and I migh get a tank gear for this build.

 

And I will try full deception because it have alway been my favorite spec

 

here is the 36/8/2 I'm talking about http://pts.swtor-spy.com/skill-tree-calculator/sith-assassin/222/

 

Also I want to be a douche too and I'll call the 36/8/2 the ibertown build (To prevent any random that want to steal the copyright and give his own name to the build like what we have seen with 2 of the latest assassin build pre 2.0 when it was clearly on the forum months before the claim) or you could call it full darkness tank too XD

Edited February 21, 2013 by Philelectric

you should see the massive **** storm the new sniper stealth detection has provoked, which by the way is easily counterable by concealment and detection and any stealther with a brain.

 

Here is how you counter the new 30 stacks of stealth detection snipers:

http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=601081

 

You only need to come withing 15m range from them with Sneak and +5 stealth talent, then force speed behind them and quickly open with spike or just any opener you would prefer.

Actually, Concealment ops can even have +17 stealth level with their new Shadow Operative Elite talent. Allowing them to come within 13 meters (which already is very close to melee range, especially from behind).

 

I'm not that worried about this particular sniper ability on neither my op nor my assasin toon. I'm much more concerned witheir increased burst talents. Sniper burst is already high, but the new Marksman talents will make them even more formidable at range. Not raging about that fact btw, just saying that the stealth detection is the least of your problems when facing a sniper now

I should just go home sick and do some testing...though I am leaning towards madness still as my go to spec but I honestly do not know.

 

I'm still debating whether to get deathfield or wither with these changes. Definitively going to pick up a shield. Though I have a feeling the changes to guard are going to make Shield Tech the best tank.

full madness is now completely useless. no maul or bonus melee damage makes it entirely inferior to sorcs.

 

It does suck losing maul but I already have a few builds that I will be trying out assuming they get the bolster fixed on the pts.

 

I'm still debating whether to get deathfield or wither with these changes. Definitively going to pick up a shield. Though I have a feeling the changes to guard are going to make Shield Tech the best tank.

 

Unless the skill tree is wrong deathfield now hits 5 targets.

Edited February 21, 2013 by cycao

I will be using 0/11/35 0/23/23 and 5/18/23 when I get on. I am just trying to figure out if going high into deception is going to be worth it anymore and at first look it seems they have destroyed it after buffing it in the last balance patch which sucks.

 

I'm going to be messing around with builds all day but there is a lot to take in.

 

And I know I have parasitism on the 2nd adn 3rd builds, that will more than likely go into oppressing force or haunted shadows but losing instant WW totally sucks.

Actually, Concealment ops can even have +17 stealth level with their new Shadow Operative Elite talent. Allowing them to come within 13 meters (which already is very close to melee range, especially from behind).

 

I'm not that worried about this particular sniper ability on neither my op nor my assasin toon. I'm much more concerned witheir increased burst talents. Sniper burst is already high, but the new Marksman talents will make them even more formidable at range. Not raging about that fact btw, just saying that the stealth detection is the least of your problems when facing a sniper now

 

MM is getting completely overhauled for the 4th time. As a sin, MM should be the least of your concerns, unless you are inbetween the zerg and the sniper has freecast at you.

 

Can you explain to a non assassin what exactly has happened to deception? Is their burst similar to what we have now?

Edited February 21, 2013 by NoTomorrow

MM is getting completely overhauled for the 4th time. As a sin, MM should be the least of your concerns, unless you are inbetween the zerg and the sniper has freecast at you.

 

Can you explain to a non assassin what exactly has happened to deception? Is their burst similar to what we have now?

 

changes to crit DR gimps deception spec because without high critrate, damage done is horrible. plus, 30% less damage on shock means its a waste of force when it doesnt crit( changes to shielding makes it even worse ). but still need to use 2xVS + shock in order to get off discharges. lower crit also gimps discharge because none crits dont hit very hard. also need force crits to get the critrate bonus for melee attacks so that will be proced less meaning maul and execute will also be critting much less.

 

even with buff to maul... is worthless as DPS in PVP.

I still cannot believe that they gave snipers this ability...its like they do not want them to have a counter.

 

LOL - you don't even know!

 

- More overpowered than everything ever listed in this entire patch, Leg Shot is now going to snare people for 70% of their movement rate after the root effect wears off (lolz!)

 

- Assassin get sme cheesy "teleport out of the fight, IF you thought ahead / had time to set a waypoint" . Snipers get "Oh you had to overextend anyways to have a chance to attack me? Here, I'll roll back 15m for even more overextension you have to do, and then I'll shoooooot you!"

 

Stealth detection on top of that. Man, whatever Developers play Snipers, I guess they wanted something against stealth too.

 

Don't care though - My Sniper is level 40 and climbing

LOL - you don't even know!

 

- More overpowered than everything ever listed in this entire patch, Leg Shot is now going to snare people for 70% of their movement rate after the root effect wears off (lolz!)

 

- Assassin get sme cheesy "teleport out of the fight, IF you thought ahead / had time to set a waypoint" . Snipers get "Oh you had to overextend anyways to have a chance to attack me? Here, I'll roll back 15m for even more overextension you have to do, and then I'll shoooooot you!"

 

Stealth detection on top of that. Man, whatever Developers play Snipers, I guess they wanted something against stealth too.

 

Don't care though - My Sniper is level 40 and climbing

 

I should have known you were leveling last night.

MM is getting completely overhauled for the 4th time. As a sin, MM should be the least of your concerns, unless you are inbetween the zerg and the sniper has freecast at you.

 

Can you explain to a non assassin what exactly has happened to deception? Is their burst similar to what we have now?

 

The above poster is wrong about his assessment, I will do my best to give you the new skinny on Deception and how it will affect your precious sniper.

 

First off, many people are complaining about the decrease in crit and defense, people need to realize that armor and crit rating are going to appear to be lower because there is 5 more levels. They try to keep crit around 15%-20% all through leveling even though your crit rate is going to increase as you level. As we get the new 55 level gear you will see your crit get back to where it was. Same with armor, they want you to pretty much have the same armor % as you level, so early levels basically scale better with less armor rating. Many MMO's do this, it is not new. Assassin crit will be the same as it is now when you get the level 55 BiS gear.

 

As far as Shock and Discharge changes. IMO even though Shock damage was nerfed from the Voltaic Slash talent, Voltaic Slash is now buffing our Discharge. I am Discharging 3-5x's as much now which more than makes up for the damage reduction to Shock. And let me tell you, Shock is still hitting pretty hard. They also made it easier to build Induction stacks so you are actually Shocking more too. It used to be that you needed 5 stacks of static charges to get full damage potential from Discharge, but it was a pain to get those 5 stacks, most used Discharge off of CD (18sec) with 2-4 charges with descent damage. Well, now not only do you only need 3 stacks to get to full bang, but Shock adds your third charge for you, so you are at 3 charges pretty much the same time your Shock comes off of cd. Many many times last night I Shocked and Discharged together. Discharge is hitting a bit harder, and Shock is hitting a bit less, but the frequency on both has increased. Just off of those two abilities, I foresee an overall sustained damage increase.

 

That should not scare the Sniper at all, this next paragraph will. Maul is the hardest hitting ability in the game. I have 8 toons, 1 each AC, and tested them all last night. Maul hits harder than Ambush, hits harder than Scream, hits harder than Smash, harder than HSM, harder than Railshot. Now, that being said, we used to only Maul on our Exploit Weakness proc which usually procced in the first few globals of opening and then again about every 10 seconds after. Well, that proc rate remains, but now we can also proc Exploit Weakness off of Low Slash and Spike on a different proc timer that has nothing to do with the original timer. These abilities will proc the Exploit Weakness even if the stun is resisted (*Entrench*). So I am guaranteed an Exploit Weakness Maul when I open with spike. And I can Low Slash for another Exploit Weakness, and that Maul can actually proc its original Exploit Weakness so basically Maul can proc itself, for two 8k Mauls in a row lol.

 

Basically, Shock and Discharge are going to buff our sustained damage, and the mechanics on these were re worked to add synergy between talents and give the rotation more flow. Our burst is going to come from Maul and how often it procs. Even though Maul is hitting harder and twice as frequent, it is a positionally based ability and will require quite a bit of skill to exploit the full potential of this ability.

 

That all being said, I played my sniper last night too, I think Snipers are gonna wreck Assassins, you guys better start practicing lol.

^ That seems to be a more accurate statement and what me and another sin came up with last night. Less burst, more sustained. I have have not been able to get into the PTS but I will be doing some full deception to see what all the commotion is about but I am not looking forward to seeing 400kHP players dealing 30k damage on all attacks.

Except that crit hasn't been nerfed. The huge drop people are seeing is from wearing lvl 50 gear as 55. Once you get into 55 gear, crit levels supposedly return to normal, at least from what I've seen via livestreams and forum posts and such. The only possible nerf to Deception is the rework of Discharge, which so far people are saying has weakened it. But I think that the other changes, particularly the second rate limit on Duplicity, might cover it. We'll basically be trading a front loaded Discharge for twice as many Mauls, and a back loaded Discharge. At least on paper I'd call that a pretty good sized buff overall. Hopefully I'll get on the PTS tonight to see for myself.

 

EDIT: the talent tree calcs I'm looking at say now that Induction increases critical strike damage of Maul by a whoppign 100%. This seems blatantly OP, so I'm guessing its a mistake in the calc, can someone confirm?

Edited February 21, 2013 by RankorSSGS

 

- Assassin get sme cheesy "teleport out of the fight, IF you thought ahead / had time to set a waypoint" . Snipers get "Oh you had to overextend anyways to have a chance to attack me? Here, I'll roll back 15m for even more overextension you have to do, and then I'll shoooooot you!"D

 

I think this cheesy ability you speak off can be quite dangerous in the right hands. Personally I won't be using it for a teleport out of a fight, but more of a stay in the fight. An example would be seeing a Sniper perched up on a ledge in huttball, he knocks me off this ledge, and boom, Im right back on his 6. Or getting knocked off the bridge in Voidstar, if I have my teleport up I can just zoom right back. A Darkness Assassin can actually jump off a ledge or cliff and pull an enemy and then teleport back up and watch the enemy go bye bye. Only took me 30seconds to think of these, imagine what we will see in 3-4 months from now.

Edited February 21, 2013 by Xethis

EDIT: the talent tree calcs I'm looking at say now that Induction increases critical striek damage of Maul by a whoppign 100%. This seems blatantly OP, so I'm guessing its a mistake in the calc, can someone confirm?

that's a mistake

 

 

Thing is, even if you believe a 2nd maul balances out the nonexistence of front loaded surging discharge.....Every other DPS spec has gotten a boatload of amazing talents and lost almost nothing...

 

The problem with Deception isn't that it was horribly nerfed, the problem is that now it seems like it will be severely outclassed.

 

i.e. if these deception changes were put on live right now and everything else was the same it would be okay....but given what other classes have gotten....not so much

 

 

of course can't say for sure yet till wz bug is fixed but ya

Edited February 21, 2013 by EatenByDistance

that's a mistake

 

 

Thing is, even if you believe a 2nd maul balances out the nonexistence of front loaded surging discharge.....Every other DPS spec has gotten a boatload of amazing talents and lost almost nothing...

 

The problem with Deception isn't that it was horribly nerfed, the problem is that now it seems like it will be severely outclassed.

 

 

of course can't say for sure yet till wz bug is fixed but ya

 

Sadly this is true. Even our tank tree got the most love out of all our specs, which is freaking stupid, as it needed the least help. I still foresee that my sin/ shadow is going to be resigned to tanking, and I'll have to play a different class if I want to do real dps.

that's a mistake

 

 

Thing is, even if you believe a 2nd maul balances out the nonexistence of front loaded surging discharge.....Every other DPS spec has gotten a boatload of amazing talents and lost almost nothing...

 

The problem with Deception isn't that it was horribly nerfed, the problem is that now it seems like it will be severely outclassed.

 

i.e. if these deception changes were put on live right now and everything else was the same it would be okay....but given what other classes have gotten....not so much

 

 

of course can't say for sure yet till wz bug is fixed but ya

 

In other terms they brought back deception to pre 1.4 form:mad:

At first I thought the changes were bad, but they may be good; Discharge no longer has a CD. For maximum damage, I think it would be best to use it anytime you have 1 Static charge, since they will be relatively rare. Since shock's cd is 6 seconds, You can get in a discharge (from the 100% proc off static charges) every six seconds right after shock, which is good.

 

I'd take being to use discharge twice the normal rate and having it do normal damage than double the new rate and doing 1.3 times normal damage any day. The VS shock dmg nerf is disgusting, hopefully the discharge change will make up for it.