http://www.torhead.com/skill-calc#100bcZhMZRMRrdfRbfz.2

Amazing damage.

Defensive Roll is not worth it, have to give up important talents for it. Interceptor is again a waste of points for what you have to give up. It is the best Smash spec.

I have also gone full power since we get 15% crit on Vicious Slash and 100% autocrit on Smash, I'm sitting at 675 melee bonus damage at the moment. Crit is useless with Rage spec.

Only thing that has changed on my build is that I'm full power augments, and I have the power/accuracy implant. I need to replace all my Accuracy mods with Power/Surge as well.

675 melee bonus damage

77.95% Surge

There is nothing like critting 5 people for 5-6k.

You're never going back to carange are you?

But i have to agree... damn what an awesome spec.. to bad i have to roll a marauder, instead of playing on my 50 sentinel now!

Choke pushback reduction is not worth sacrificing force crit. Keep in mind that ALL force attacks hit much harder when they crit, so some crit is needed for optimal performance.

I disagree my spec is the same as his.

Choke pushback reduction is not worth sacrificing force crit. Keep in mind that ALL force attacks hit much harder when they crit, so some crit is needed for optimal performance.

See below.

Absolutely wrong. We only have one primary force attack as Rage (I'm not even counting force choke as a damage ability). Smash, you should only be smashing with 4 stacks of shockwave. So why the hell do we need more force crit?

I worded that poorly.

Smash is our only PRIMARY attack that is Force. It has a 100% chance to crit after Force Charge or Obliterate. Why would we need 4% more crit on an ability we should only be using after we obliterate or force charge??? If you tell me so we can get more crit on Force Choke then I don't know what to tell you.

I worded that poorly.

 

Smash is our only PRIMARY attack that is Force. It has a 100% chance to crit after Force Charge or Obliterate. Why would we need 4% more crit on an ability we should only be using after we obliterate or force charge??? If you tell me so we can get more crit on Force Choke then I don't know what to tell you.

so we can get more crit chance on force crush.... xD jk. Thats about as useful as getting it for force choke. I agree with ur build btw. Its exactly wat im using as well and its great. Once i finish getting full WH and max out for power it will be even better lol.

I worded that poorly.

 

Smash is our only PRIMARY attack that is Force. It has a 100% chance to crit after Force Charge or Obliterate. Why would we need 4% more crit on an ability we should only be using after we obliterate or force charge??? If you tell me so we can get more crit on Force Choke then I don't know what to tell you.

My choke crits for 1.5-2k on some targets. It ticks 4 times. That's a lot of damage across the duration. Force crush tick crits for over 1k with a last tick of 3-3.5k (I see a 4k every now and then.) Scream crits for 4-4.5k. Force push (on my Guardian) crits for 3-3.5k. This is on my Guardian (switched out ability names) with 800 power, over 1800 strength, 78% surge, 97% accuracy, and 34% force crit before talents. I still get 6-7k smashes, 4.5-5k vicious throws, 5-5.5k last hit on ravage.

Rage can bring a lot more to the table DPS wise than just smash, if you let it. Especially after this last patch.

My choke crits for 1.5-2k on some targets. It ticks 4 times. That's a lot of damage across the duration. Force crush tick crits for over 1k with a last tick of 3-3.5k (I see a 4k every now and then.) Scream crits for 4-4.5k. Force push (on my Guardian) crits for 3-3.5k. This is on my Guardian (switched out ability names) with 800 power, over 1800 strength, 78% surge, 97% accuracy, and 34% force crit before talents. I still get 6-7k smashes, 4.5-5k vicious throws, 5-5.5k last hit on ravage.

But isn't the thing, that Force Choke only gives you a full number of ticks if you never suffer pushback while using it? That means that without the talent, at best, Choke's going to only give 75% of the expected damage if you're attacked while using it, and on top of that, won't build the last tick of Shockwave?

But isn't the thing, that Force Choke only gives you a full number of ticks if you never suffer pushback while using it? That means that without the talent, at best, Choke's going to only give 75% of the expected damage if you're attacked while using it, and on top of that, won't build the last tick of Shockwave?

Choke wasn't the focus of that post. My point was that crit does matter for Rage spec as the higher crit damage on other force attacks gives crit more value, and that you can still get smash numbers with a bit higher crit.

Besides which, I usually save using choke for times where I'm not getting focused. This reduces the pushback problem. Anyways, good players are going to interrupt it when getting focused, not rely on pushback.

Choke wasn't the focus of that post. My point was that crit does matter for Rage spec as the higher crit damage on other force attacks gives crit more value, and that you can still get smash numbers with a bit higher crit.

 

Besides which, I usually save using choke for times where I'm not getting focused. This reduces the pushback problem. Anyways, good players are going to interrupt it when getting focused, not rely on pushback.

Absolutely incorrect in every way. CRIT DOES NOT MATTER FOR RAGE. You have 15% on Vicious Slash and you have 100% on Smash if played correctly.

Don't believe me? Asked properly geared Juggernauts, they have been gearing the way I've suggested for ages. Most only have 1 7% crit and are stacked full power. That is how Rage works.

Absolutely incorrect in every way. CRIT DOES NOT MATTER FOR RAGE. You have 15% on Vicious Slash and you have 100% on Smash if played correctly.

 

Don't believe me? Asked properly geared Juggernauts, they have been gearing the way I've suggested for ages. Most only have 1 7% crit and are stacked full power. That is how Rage works.

Hell, it isn't even just Rage specced Marauders. Testing Carnage and Annihilation in 2 gear layouts (layout 1 = 164 crit rating, layout 2 = 328 crit rating) yielded nearly identical DPS results in parsing.

The fact is that this game is very forgiving in how you optimize your DPS stats. I'd bet that even in Rage spec if you went to 300ish crit rating you would do similar DPS to if you went to 0 and stacked all power. It's just how the game works, and the more I think about it, the more I admire it.

Having said that, PVP is about short fights and burst so I always prefer power over crit in those cases unless your spec relies on crits for some of it's mechanics (like Lethality snipers for energy regen) and as you said, Rage isn't one of those specs.

Hell, it isn't even just Rage specced Marauders. Testing Carnage and Annihilation in 2 gear layouts (layout 1 = 164 crit rating, layout 2 = 328 crit rating) yielded nearly identical DPS results in parsing.

 

The fact is that this game is very forgiving in how you optimize your DPS stats. I'd bet that even in Rage spec if you went to 300ish crit rating you would do similar DPS to if you went to 0 and stacked all power. It's just how the game works, and the more I think about it, the more I admire it.

 

 

Having said that, PVP is about short fights and burst so I always prefer power over crit in those cases unless your spec relies on crits for some of it's mechanics (like Lethality snipers for energy regen) and as you said, Rage isn't one of those specs.

The crit power difference is more noticeable in Rage. You get more burst by stacking more power. A very small portion of your damage comes from force choke and force crush. The bulk of it comes from Vicious Slash (15% crit from talents, I have a base 21% with FULL POWER which means it's 36%), and 100% crit on Smash. Power will yield significantly stronger results in PvP in Rage spec whereas the other two specs favor a more balanced approach.

The crit power difference is more noticeable in Rage. You get more burst by stacking more power. A very small portion of your damage comes from force choke and force crush. The bulk of it comes from Vicious Slash (15% crit from talents, I have a base 21% with FULL POWER which means it's 36%), and 100% crit on Smash. Power will yield significantly stronger results in PvP in Rage spec whereas the other two specs favor a more balanced approach.

In PVP I tend to agree because you'll end most fights before having higher crit becomes a factor.

I was really just offering some clarity to your statement that crit doesn't matter for Rage. What you're saying is that crit sucks for Rage because Smash is auto-crit and Vicious Slash has a 15% modifer so it doesn't matter. What I'm saying is that for the game as a whole, crit vs. power doesn't matter because you will produce DPS results within a few % of one another regardless of whether you stack crit to the DR point or drop it in favor of power.

Basically, the mechanics of your class determine whether or not you want more frequent crits (Lethality energy regen, Anni self heals) or not because the effect on DPS itself is trivial in either direction and in any spec. Over the course of time you'll do the same damage with 300 crit rating in Rage spec as you would with 100 crit rating.

Absolutely incorrect in every way. CRIT DOES NOT MATTER FOR RAGE. You have 15% on Vicious Slash and you have 100% on Smash if played correctly.

 

Don't believe me? Asked properly geared Juggernauts, they have been gearing the way I've suggested for ages. Most only have 1 7% crit and are stacked full power. That is how Rage works.

I am fully WH Guardian optimized towards balanced power and crit. I have very strong burst and usually do more damage than your "properly geared" Juggs. I agree that Focus/Rage doesn't need as much crit as say, a balance shadow, but it is important for all abilities outside of smash. I do not know how anyone can just shrug off abilities like crush, as it will do more single target damage than smash if it crits.

I have a near 2500 top rating, I have played around a lot with different classes and specs, and in my experience it is a mistake to ignore crit in almost any spec that has a DPS or healing focus. Sure, it's not as important in some specs, but it is a mistake to completely forgo it. Even as rage/focus. Smash isn't the only attack that does a lot of damage. All force attacks that crit do a LOT more damage than normal.

I was giving this spec a try a few days ago straight after the patch. There weren't any builds being discussed on the forums that I could see so I made up my own.

Yours is the same as mine except for 1 small change. Tell me what you think.

I'm currently trying 1/3 into Enraged Slash instead of 3/3, and putting 2 into Defensive Roll.

Now I'm not sure if you're running with healers often, but I haven't been and the biggest difference coming from Annihilation/Watchman (which I have pretty much mastered) is that as a Focus/Rage spec it is much harder to really influence the game without good support from a healer. You still do the DPS (and boy do you do the DPS!) but you die more often (at least I have been). With Watchman/Annih I felt like I could singlehandedly turn the tide by getting out the back and wreaking havoc, but as a Focus/Rage spec you are all about the team-wide DPS pressure. Admittedly, I am definitely a bit of a noob with the spec still (and given that I'm still managing to do more damage than Annih/Watchman in most games, which suggests how strong it truly is) but I feel my point still stands.

I have found that since the patch Focus Sents/Rage Maras are absolutely focus/rage saturated, so the refund from Enraged Slash isn't really necessary (especially if you are using all your other focus generating skills correctly). The Defensive Roll points allow me to get right in amongst the crowd without getting burst down as fast, which in turn allows me to line up my 5x6k sweeps/smashes.

Thoughts?

You would be out of your mind to not take defensive roll with the amount of aoe damage in this game. Smash/sweep isn't the only hard hitting aoe damage:

Death field

Lightning Storm

DfA

Orbital Strike

Anything from engineering sniper

...and their pub equivalents attacks

That is why infiltration/deception is a difficult battle for the rage tree because even at a 6k smash, you're getting nearly 2k damage taken away just from a simple 2 talent points, and even more for Medium armor wearers (Maras/Sents). That's why a well-played sniper is an even bigger pain b/c of the inability to force charge, negating your 10% vindicator bonus, and if speced in MM up to a 60% reduction in aoe damage, which nearly completely brushes off rage smashes. And if you aren't always playing with a healer that humps you, it's almost mandatory because rage generation is the least of your worries now with the tree.