Hi. I've been leveling two healing classes, Sage and Operative, both are at 30 now. However, I'm having hard time in Flashpoints even if my gear is up to date.

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With multiple enemies tank always leaps to elite, and DPS follow to take it down, like it has to be. But then, rest of mobs attack to me. I can only heal myself a while, not long until I die. If I heal tank like I should I die only faster. I got votekicked from one group for reason she always dies first.

 

Is there defesive cooldowns that I should be using (I already use Force Wave and Force Speed) or is my key of surviving killing enemies faster? Ty for advice

if yo are getting hit by mobs then its tank/dps fault.

 

I tank as vanguard from time to time, and knowing how to pull a pack of mobs is one of the keys to good tanking.

Tank should focus on hard mobs but he also should try to catch as many weak enemies as well. I should be norm for tank to leap to weak mobs, use AoE skill to get agro on them then switch to strong mob and attack him.

 

DPS should focus weak adds first, then go for strong enemies.

 

If i were you, i would not heal to start with or pre hot non boss fights. let tank go as low as 50%, if you have up to date gear, you will easily get him back from 50% to 100% quickly. This way you will not agro any mobs at the start of the fight. Remeber that your hots even when over healing generating threat so its best not to pre hot DPS or Tank or 4 ticks of your HOT will generate more threat then any other DPS will do in the first two seconds. This will lead to you getting hit and then you need to focus heal yourself. When you heal on your Sage, just bubble all 4 players and you should be fine to start with, then wait with any other heal until tank gets to 50%.

You can also advise DPS to deal with weak adds first, then go for strong ones as it should be.

Edited January 30, 2014 by Macio

If mobs are attacking you I would politly ask the tank to try to do his job, which is tanking. an Aoe taunt might do the trick. If he dont taunt the mobs then I wouldnt heal him, problem solved and you dont die first =)

Ehm, well.... if you get adds on you than the tanks and DPS are screwing up.

Number uno priority of any tank should be to have the tanks on him. If the tank can't do this for whatever reason the DPS should have stepped up and keep them away from you. Now thats out of the way lets see what you can do against it.

 

Whenever I get adds on me I try multiple things:

Sage/sorc

- Hard cc'ing on my sage and praying the dps wont break it (the 60 seconds stun)

- Stunning with force stun

- As a sage keep force armor on you and the tank up

 

Scoundrel/operative

- Stunning with flashbang, dirty kick (debilitate I think its called for operatives?)

- when you get very very low use your combat stealth (fyi if the tanks and dps dont focus on the adds they will be on you again as soon as you heal. It should give you temporarely breathing room

- Keep your slowrelease medpack up on the tank and you

- Not sure if you have allready the free emergency medpack usage below 30%. If so make sure to have at least 1 stack of upperhand to be able to spam heal when needed

- use your dodge and personal shield

- go sit in cover (it gives you a defense boost)

 

General tips

- Dont forget the triage system. Keep yourself up is nr 1 prio. Followed by the tank. Just let the DPS die if really really needed. (don't forget to appologize to the DPS ;-))

- If you have adds on you run to the tank so he can use his AoE attacks to regain aggro

- Lose line of sight on the adds

- Wait with healing or Hotting up the tank till he is at about 50% HP (bad tanks WILL lose aggro if you HoT up to much or start burst healing soon)

- This may sound strange but go DPS on the adds. the least adds are up the least adds can do damage on your group. Best time to do this is at the start of a fight since your group will be full on HP.

 

If all failes go complain in groupchat that you get aggro on adds. Ask for a guard from the tank.

 

As last resort go out with a bang and leave the group.

As above posters said, it's not you who is bad, it's the tank and especially DPS. I haven't tanked in leveling group content (only endgame), so I'm uncertain of what abilities are available for a level 30 (guardian?) tank, but chances are there's at least one AoE ability, and hopefully one with high threat generation. The tank should use whatever tools he has to grab aggro from at least the adds in the immediate vicinity of the strongest mob of the pack. A skilled tank can also grab some mobs further away, but there are packs where it's extremely difficult to get all of the mobs. The DPS should usually start with the weakest mobs, unless there are special considerations such as some mobs healing others.

ah yes- level 30ish pug fp's as a healer

do not fret op all is not lost

 

first- at this level range the fp's definitely step up in difficulty; i think of it as a derp check

2nd- if you are getting hit by mobs it is the tanks and the dps fault

 

based on your description the tank is tunnel visioning the toughest mob- there may not appear to be any problem with this but a tank who is unable to see his op/party frames and notice his healer's health quickly deteriorating is a poor tank-- when i tank i will simultaneously get the attention of the toughest as well as any other bad guy nearby- with even a couple lightsaber basic attacks i can get aggro while the dps (ideally) wipes up the mess

 

dps, on the other hand, need to burn down mobs from weakest to strongest and when the healer begins to take damage the dps need to peel the threat off of the healer-- this is their only job-- if everyone does his job what happens? well, the tank will "tank," the dps get to burn down everything, and the healer gets to "heal"

 

what you have described, op, is very common and every swtor player who has tried to tank and heal has these kinds of stories

 

best adivce-- if this happens once briefly explain what is happening-- ie- tanks and dps not doing job

if it happens a second time- quit group-- another que is seconds away

In the next levels your healers will gain one of their most important healing power (Healing Transe and Surgical Probe) Well used, and some more skillpoint in their you shouldn't have anymore issue to heal content, provided the others do their job.

 

At level 30, tanks should gain their AOE taunt. But before that they shouldn't have major issue to aggro a crowd. I recently leveled up an Assassin tank and make my way through the flashpoints by Overload (push) the packs, then Lacerate (in place AOE) when they're close. Controling DPS was more an issue (many don't attack the right targets, pull before the tanks, etc.) I also had many issues with "healers" who spent more time to poorly dps things than actually healing. A tank you met may have experienced such people and get a bad opinions on flashpoint healers.

 

Powertech/Vanguard also have plenty of AOE early in more of their ranged attacks. I don't know about the young guardians, but I doubt they are unable to engage with an AOE.

 

By the way, if you're aggroed by some mobs, beside your cooldowns and CC, you may

- run close to the tank, the mobs following you and expect he'll aoe them all.

- run back and forth forward the tank with the pack following you. Not the most efficient, but expected to work on tunnel vision tanks.

- If aggroed by ranged mobs, hide behind a pillar or a crate to give you some time and force them to move.

- type "aggro" in the chat.

 

Remind the DPS they have to kill from weakest to strongest mobs. Some of them don't care, but some actually understand.

Edited January 30, 2014 by Nkya

With multiple enemies tank always leaps to elite, and DPS follow to take it down, like it has to be. But then, rest of mobs attack to me. I can only heal myself a while, not long until I die. If I heal tank like I should I die only faster. I got votekicked from one group for reason she always dies first.

 

Here is the root of the problem. The idiots you are running with think this is the way it has to be.

 

Tank needs to get the elite and where possible get the weaker adds.

 

DPS needs to get the weaker adds down then go focus on the elites.

 

Also especially at lower levels CC is important.

 

Now that doesn't mean it is not you at all. It is entirely possible there are things you can do to improve the situation. But don't assume it is entirely your fault.

 

Some suggestions for Operative:

1. Make sure you have 2 stacks of your your hot Kolto Probe on the tank.

2. Keep two stacks on whoever else is pulling aggro if that's you then use it on you.

3. Good strategy before pull is to put two stacks on tank, two stacks on you then stealth to drop aggro. You will pick it up again right away if the DPS don't get on the smaller mobs but at least you won't start off with it.

4. If the group lets you don't be afraid to stealth, CC add with your sleep dart before the fight.

5. If adds are droids CC one of them. If someone breaks the CC they will likely pick up the agro.

 

Some suggestiosn on Sage:

1. Bubble is your friend.

2. Bubble is your friend.

3. Bubble is your friend. (get the picture)

4. Bubble the tank. Bubble on you.

5. As above if you can CC one of the adds before or even during the fight.

 

General suggestion:

1. Find a good guild. Run with Guildies instead of just PUGs. They will be able to help you learn what you are doing wrong (if anything).

Activating focus target in preferences (assuming you haven't already) can be a major help, making it easier to switch between healing yourself, healing the tank, and stunning adds when you're getting mobbed because people aren't paying enough attention to keeping things off of you.

Thanks for advice! Things I've been doing wrong are propably about that spamming HoTs before fights, I won't do that anymore. As a Sage I can prepare peepz with Force Armor, and Operative... Stealth ? resets ? threat generation, I may be wrong about this. And that running to tank, well most of tanks don't mind but once I got angry Caps Lock response about passing my problems to him:( he tried to kick me, but that time DPS prevented it. But I'll propably do better now when I know not put pre-heals;)

The good news is at least on the operative none of this matters. My main is a sawbones and like you I had all these problems leveling.

 

* Dissapearing Act or whatever it is called for a operative, it is your "get out of jail free" card for gold fever dps. Don't be afraid to use it and let the dps and tank tank die.

 

This first thing I did leveling when dps didn't follow kill order, is run into the middle of the fight where the dps is spamming their AoEs. The unattacked mobs are after you because of healing threat, if dps or tank damage them they will attack whoever damages them. Blow your defensive cooldowns and run for the fight. You use a knife to stab people in the back, you are not range, so get into the fight. If you need too throw your flash bang to slow down the mob and buy yourself time. Once the mobs get aggored by others, then worry about keeping group on feet using defensive cooldowns and flash bang when needed.

 

This gets way easier at level 40 when you get AoE heal, but this will get you use to making it more effective by not being a range healer. I am not saying stand right in the middle of the fight face tanking the boss, in most fights you want to be behind the boss, but I like to be in close proixitey of tank. Especially when you have leaping dps. They leap to a add on the other side of the boss from you and you have all types of problems getting them in range until after level 51 when you get roll.

 

With a sage I play much the same way, I like being where I can hit all four with the golden puddle, with me standing just at the back edge behind the boss. Again not much of a issue after 51 when you get your 10 sec safe zone that is a aggro dumb to boot. Just do that and watch mobs run off and attack dps/tank from you worry free bubble.

 

Of course once 55 and geared, either class can just AoE the mobs to death, who needs dps then.

 

My other advice is always assume dps has no clue what a defensive cooldown or medpac is. Some do, but you never know who will pop one.

Edited January 30, 2014 by mikebevo

And that running to tank, well most of tanks don't mind but once I got angry Caps Lock response about passing my problems to him:(

That tank was an idiot. Managing aggro is the tank's job by definition. Only if you broke CC or pulled another group to get the mobs on you would it be your problem.

Thanks for advice! Things I've been doing wrong are propably about that spamming HoTs before fights, I won't do that anymore. As a Sage I can prepare peepz with Force Armor, and Operative... Stealth ? resets ? threat generation, I may be wrong about this. And that running to tank, well most of tanks don't mind but once I got angry Caps Lock response about passing my problems to him:( he tried to kick me, but that time DPS prevented it. But I'll propably do better now when I know not put pre-heals;)

 

Yeah. Why would you pass off your agro to the tank..... It's not like it's his job or anything....

 

*sigh*

And that running to tank, well most of tanks don't mind but once I got angry Caps Lock response about passing my problems to him

 

...

 

What is this, I don't even.

 

I play a tank. Tanks have one job: to grab threat. Your problem WAS his problem.

 

I'm glad the DPS didn't allow him to kick you, but I would have kicked him. Or left the group voluntarily. Tank rarity bed**ned.

 

Life's too short to waste time on terrible players.

Edited January 30, 2014 by AlixMV

You've gotten lots of good responses here, but one thing I'm going to disagree with is the tank focusing on the strongest. In a proper group, the tank should only need to hit the elite/champion mob with a single high-threat attack to have aggro on him, and should then basically follow the DPS to the silver/strong mobs to get and hold aggro on each of those as the DPS focus them down. That assumes the DPS are following an established kill order (weakest to strongest, left to right for example).

 

In many fights, the silvers hit much harder than the elites, so a tank that tries to solo the strongest mob leaving the DPS/healer to worry about the rest is not a very good tank.

Is there defesive cooldowns that I should be using (I already use Force Wave

 

There are very very very few situations where you should use force wave. Too many sages at 55 are using it, knocking mobs out of AoE circles that would kill them, and spreading trash out making it more difficult for tanks to generate AoE threat on them. Yes, Force Wave can be talented to heal, and in some situations it is useful (although I don't spec into it), like when all the ranged DPS are stacked or it's a boss fight that is immune to knockback. But on trash pulls or as a defensive maneuver, it actually causes more problems than it is worth.

You've gotten lots of good responses here, but one thing I'm going to disagree with is the tank focusing on the strongest. In a proper group, the tank should only need to hit the elite/champion mob with a single high-threat attack to have aggro on him, and should then basically follow the DPS to the silver/strong mobs to get and hold aggro on each of those as the DPS focus them down. That assumes the DPS are following an established kill order (weakest to strongest, left to right for example).

That makes sense if there are multiple mobs that take awhile to kill, yes. I generally don't bother using single-target attacks on anything below strong when I'm tanking, since a single geared DPS can take a standard enemy down in about three hits. Conversely, DPS should watch what the tank is doing and attack the same target when it makes sense with regard to the kill order.

...

 

What is this, I don't even.

 

I play a tank. Tanks have one job: to grab threat. Your problem WAS his problem.

 

I'm glad the DPS didn't allow him to kick you, but I would have kicked him. Or left the group voluntarily. Tank rarity bed**ned.

 

Life's too short to waste time on terrible players.

Only problem is that finding replacement tank takes forever, so I decided to get along. It went well, tough when last boss had about 70% health left there was only me and DPS left. That was Cademimu and I just couldn't heal trough those fires. Then tank started to tell us die with purpose because he was bored. He was quite selfish tank. But we didn't wipe;)

 

Thanks for encouraging me, I almost gave up with my healers:-)

Only problem is that finding replacement tank takes forever, so I decided to get along. It went well, tough when last boss had about 70% health left there was only me and DPS left. That was Cademimu and I just couldn't heal trough those fires. Then tank started to tell us die with purpose because he was bored. He was quite selfish tank. But we didn't wipe;)

 

Thanks for encouraging me, I almost gave up with my healers:-)

 

You're not supposed to be able to heal through the fires on Cademimu last boss, you're supposed to move to where the fires aren't. I don't know how much damage it does in the on level version, but in 55 hardmode the fire does over 13k damage per tick.

Only problem is that finding replacement tank takes forever, so I decided to get along. It went well, tough when last boss had about 70% health left there was only me and DPS left. That was Cademimu and I just couldn't heal trough those fires. Then tank started to tell us die with purpose because he was bored. He was quite selfish tank. But we didn't wipe;)

 

Thanks for encouraging me, I almost gave up with my healers:-)

That's a good sign imo,being able to keep yourself and 2 dps up for most of a fight after the tank died from stupidity.Don't give up because of idiots,just put them on ignore if they're really bad and move on,there's bound to be some good tanks and dps on the server you're on,just gotta hope you get the good players.

And that running to tank, well most of tanks don't mind but once I got angry Caps Lock response about passing my problems to him:( he tried to kick me, but that time DPS prevented it. But I'll propably do better now when I know not put pre-heals;)

 

Oh my... you must really be Bad luck Brian aren't you?

Don't mind those A-holes only time it is in fact a healers fault is, when there is damage to whole group that can't be avoided by ANY means and you can't heal through it. All the other times? Look at them. If there is a single add on heal somebody else screwed up.

 

For the Cademimu part, well any of the FPs past lvl 28ish or something will have some kind of mechanic. If you are new to MMOs and especialy doing the FP for first time. You should always mention it. On the Last boss in Cademimu the Tank died because he screwed the mechanic, as somebody else said. You are not supposed to stand in a fire. This applies to 70% of all other fights in game, But in ¨most of the others you see a red circle on the ground instead of fire being launched on your head

 

For the Operative healing. My main is Sawbones scoundrel and I can tell you. Before hitting lvl 45 or so you actually want the HoT pre-casted before the fight on you and Tank. because your HoTs are your main Tactical Advantage generator. Even after that level (because up there is a talent that grants 2 TA when u exit stealth) you still want to HoT the Tank and your self at least. There quite a few fights where u want/need to keep it on whole party but having them on Tank is a must 100% of the time. It is his job to mitigate the threat you do on mobs by it. Our HoT is like a Sages bubble. You wouldn't start combat without it would you? That being said, my typical thrash pull begins with HoTing me and Tank, then I crouch in the cover and use my free Blaster Shot and occasional Charged Burst/Snipe (But mind your energy, never cast it when below 100) to help kill weak adds. And when Tank or some1 drops below 60-50% then I actualy start using other heals.

 

Last thing, when u get the unwanted attention. Both Sage and Operative gets a skill on lvl 30 (I think) that has 45s CD and when you use it any other time it looks like it does nothing BUT when you look on the actual description, you will see that it REDUCES THREAT. basicaly making the mobs attack the next guy who has second highest threat on the NPC. "Cloud Mind" is the skill for Sage and "Countermeasures" for Operative. Op then has a combat stealth which is the ultimate threat drop, as it sets your threat on 0. As someone said though if you aggroed by your HoT ticking on DPS and they don't attack the mob before you return to combat, they will be back on you.

 

Feel free to pm me if u have any questions, or if u happen to play on Tomb of Freedon Nadd whisp me/mail me in game

You are not (or at least not only one) bad... you just got brain dead DPSs and possibly tank with tunnel vision/no AOE taunt/no energy management yet (25 level PT is overheated by AOE attack so fast it not even funny).

Good side of it - level 30, all mentioned still have possibility to learn... it comes really bad at 55 when you clearly tell 2 DDs to stop race over gold/champ mobs and follow kill order starting from spread normals that tank AOE attacks cannot reach without leaving strong/gold/champ to pray over racing DPS... and get jerk answers that you must L2P if cannot survive or tank with such derps.

You will late see why most sane tanks and healers stay away from GF and PUGs.

Ty for all advice. My situation is way better now, because I don't generate as much threat as before cause I only place HoTs on Tank. Also Surgical Probe and Healing Trance made difference. Often there is still 1-3 mobs on me but with bubble I can manage. If situation starts to seem too bad, if there is more than 3 mobs on me I can use Cloud Mind, even if some tanks and DPS seem not like it. Luckily most of them accept apologizes:-)

Also some tanks refuse to use taunts at all, because they think they are fatal for them.

On Mandalorian Raiders there comes fight against Imperial Boarding party where is 3 or 4 gold mobs. I was with badly geared vanguard dps, and shadowtank and sentinel from same guild. Before fight tank and sent explained tactic that would be everyone taking one mob, so no one would get too much damage. I agreed because I knew that guildies held power to kick me off, even if I personally prefer healing only one target instead of many of them because switching breaks my healing rotation.

So fight begun. I got dual wielder on me, tank took ranged officer and rest went to our poor vanguard. He had poor gear and he couldn't take many hits, and I couldn't heal him much since tank also needed heal and myself. Vanguard asked for taunt but tank answered something like I have one already. So additional mob would have been sentinels to take but ofc he had no taunt. I couldn't keep vanguard up and he fell. Inq that had been on him came to me but sentinel took that off. Luckily sent and shadow were geared so we didn't wipe.

Side note: vanguard got kicked. I felt sorry for him even if he was undergeared:( its stupid how two friends can kick whoever they wish:(

Maybe all talented players play with their guild so there is a lot uneducated in GF. Also Eclipse seems to be quite popular starter server:o

Before fight tank and sent explained tactic that would be everyone taking one mob, so no one would get too much damage.

Side note: vanguard got kicked.

 

The guildies are new/off thier meds. The healer should not, by definition, "tank" a mob. Also there is now gosh darn reason in the world why each member of the group should "take a mob", also by each taking a mob what happens is that there is the same amount of damage being received only now it's spread to those who are not equipped to deal with it, ie: healer and Dps.

By the way don't mind me im just pissed because I had to "tank" the trooper and the smuggler on my Sorc healer about 90% of the time today... F**********

 

PS:When you're on your Scoundrel just use your in combat stealth or as I like to call it the "nope, **** this I'm out" button and just let the idiots who let the healer get swarmed by mobs die

Edited February 2, 2014 by toha
Profanity filter was tricked by mistake