Remember this, when you leave early because you don't want to waste your time, remember that every time you do someone who is waiting next in the queue has to waste their time taking your spot. Think about this next time you leave a warzone early. Edited February 19, 2013 by Sadishist

you're wasting your breath. there's no honor in pvp. do you really think the guy(s) who quit(s) give a damn about the sucker who back fills? see the request to eliminate back fill thread. a dev popped in and suggest a few things they're working on to tweak the system.

 

you will never get rid of quitters.

 

never.

 

stahp!

 

it won't happen.

 

find another way.

You can shame them on fleet though,guilds do not care for people within their guild doing stuff like that,be a man and stick it out or go play with the girls in the cantina i say.

When I see more threads griping about solo DMers, objective ignorers, def comm farmers, mute inc callers, etc. than leavers, I will start paying attention to threads about leavers. Edited February 20, 2013 by Joesixxpack

Remember this, when you leave early because you don't want to waste your time, remember that every time you do someone who is waiting next in the queue has to waste their time taking your spot. Think about this next time you leave a warzone early.

 

Not to be a DICK, wait who am I kidding. I don't think about them I think of me. I like me. I like me not staying in warzones with people who don't want to win so they don't do the simple things. And when it happens to me and I backfill a losing match I quit that match also. I mean the person who quit had a good reason so why would I want to stay. Everynow and then I will stay in a backfill match if I only need 1 more for my daily and Im running out of me time.

 

Jenna'syyde

Edited February 20, 2013 by rlamela

You can shame them on fleet though,guilds do not care for people within their guild doing stuff like that,be a man and stick it out or go play with the girls in the cantina i say.

 

If I quit the warzone I already was playing with the girls. I mean men couldnt suck that bad could they

Remember this, when you leave early because you don't want to waste your time, remember that every time you do someone who is waiting next in the queue has to waste their time taking your spot. Think about this next time you leave a warzone early.

 

If you're smart, you only waste a minute.....literally. Just quit when you see that you're backfilling. simple solution.

Now, lets focus on the actual problems not the symptoms of those problems, shall we?

Instead of asking for folks to not quit...maybe ask the devs for a /resign feature? Just sayin'........

Remember this, when you leave early because you don't want to waste your time, remember that every time you do someone who is waiting next in the queue has to waste their time taking your spot. Think about this next time you leave a warzone early.

This kind of ethical and interpersonal arguments against leaving a warzone is way, way more compelling/interesting than those of the "man up bro" and "take your licks" variety. Arguments in the latter category are just strangely misplaced in regards to SWTOR pug PvP; people that need to prove their ability to "man up" in a video game need to be finding other hobbies. They are also generally irrational.

 

But the moral arguments introduce a new and interesting element to the puzzle: The other human beings in your game. And as you might suspect, there are no simple answers. It all depends on what your own ethical orientations are.

 

Some people might think that your own needs come before those of others, and for them, the conversation would end right there. Others might go the way of Kant (at least in his simplest form) and assume that any behavior we can't universalize is a behavior that we shouldn't engage in.This is also a version of our esteemed "Golden Rule" (Do unto others as you would have done unto you, etc.), a principle that is surely relevant here. We could also pick up a utilitarian calculus to judge this behavior, approving of actions that enable the greatest good with the least harm. Or countless other moral guidelines from countless other moral systems.

 

Without getting into a really gratuitous argument about what ethical system is best, we can't really make a good judgment about leaving a WZ, even if the idea is very interesting.

 

But what I will say is this (even if it's a bit utilitarian without paying enough respect to other theories): The person who fills in for you is probably being harmed less than the person who sticks around. The guy who backlogs for you? He shrugs, maybe cusses "**** a losing WZ!", and then just leaves the game; because he joined the game late anyway, he feels no agency in its loss and no investment in its outcome. So he will just requeue having wasted very little time and experiencing very little frustration. Or maybe he loves the uphill fight so he stays around to play it out! In that case, you did him a favor.

 

For you, however, by remaining in the WZ and wasting your own time on a thoroughly unenjoyable activity, you incur a big hit to your own happiness. Your own loss of happiness, not to mention 10 minutes of your time, is comparatively much larger than the minor frustration and wasted 60 seconds experienced by the backlogger.

 

It's not the ONLY way to view the ethical problem, but it is definitely one way to do so.

Remember this, when you leave early because you don't want to waste your time, remember that every time you do someone who is waiting next in the queue has to waste their time taking your spot. Think about this next time you leave a warzone early.

 

Better them than me. I have already thought about it and wish them the best of luck.

Better them than me. I have already thought about it and wish them the best of luck.

 

When they institute 30 - 45 min debuff, i'll wish you the best of luck as you stand on fleet twiddling thumbs in gen chat too. We all win.

When they institute 30 - 45 min debuff, i'll wish you the best of luck as you stand on fleet twiddling thumbs in gen chat too. We all win.

 

This will never happen. Stop kidding yourself.

But what I will say is this (even if it's a bit utilitarian without paying enough respect to other theories): The person who fills in for you is probably being harmed less than the person who sticks around. The guy who backlogs for you? He shrugs, maybe cusses "**** a losing WZ!", and then just leaves the game; because he joined the game late anyway, he feels no agency in its loss and no investment in its outcome. So he will just requeue having wasted very little time and experiencing very little frustration. Or maybe he loves the uphill fight so he stays around to play it out! In that case, you did him a favor.

 

For you, however, by remaining in the WZ and wasting your own time on a thoroughly unenjoyable activity, you incur a big hit to your own happiness. Your own loss of happiness, not to mention 10 minutes of your time, is comparatively much larger than the minor frustration and wasted 60 seconds experienced by the backlogger.

 

It's not the ONLY way to view the ethical problem, but it is definitely one way to do so.

I think your position on the matter is more narcissistic than utilitarian, but I absolutely love that you brought I. Kant take-it-anymore into a swtor pvp debate. so cheers!

Remember this, when you leave early because you don't want to waste your time, remember that every time you do someone who is waiting next in the queue has to waste their time taking your spot. Think about this next time you leave a warzone early.

 

Get in a premade.

Most of the posts in this thread are very selfish, and disgusting.

 

In response to-

 

But what I will say is this (even if it's a bit utilitarian without paying enough respect to other theories): The person who fills in for you is probably being harmed less than the person who sticks around. The guy who backlogs for you? He shrugs, maybe cusses "**** a losing WZ!", and then just leaves the game; because he joined the game late anyway, he feels no agency in its loss and no investment in its outcome. So he will just requeue having wasted very little time and experiencing very little frustration.

 

You also have to take in consideration that the next guy who joins waste a minute of his time in the queue quitting, keep in mind that if 10 more people do the exact same by joining and quiting after him in the same match, that's wasting 1 minute of 10 peoples time. Just to keep in mind.

Edited February 20, 2013 by Sadishist

People who are willing to leave wz's early are often solo queued and are looking for the best way to have a good time in tor, so they don't particularly care about the effect that it has on another person. That's also why so many pugs are dps, it's just more fun to kill (even if they are horrid at it ) than to kite while keeping other people alive. I don't particularly care about people saying that they're going to leave warzones because it's to better their own experience because there isn't really an argument that can be made that their overall experience will be worsened by them leaving. What I do dislike is that they will gladly say that they are leaving a wz because their team is too bad, but they never mention that they are going to requeue in the hopes of finding a team that will carry them.

When they institute 30 - 45 min debuff, i'll wish you the best of luck as you stand on fleet twiddling thumbs in gen chat too. We all win.

 

Yeah. You keep thinking that. And if hell freezes over and they do institute that, don't come to the forums crying about people camping at the node getting defense medals, not contributing to the fight because they can't leave the WZ.

Most of the posts in this thread are very selfish, and disgusting.

 

Common sense says that it's more disgusting to expect team players to waste their valuable time with players that don't consider themselves part of a team.

Edited February 20, 2013 by Joesixxpack

When they institute 30 - 45 min debuff, i'll wish you the best of luck as you stand on fleet twiddling thumbs in gen chat too. We all win.

 

haha, keep dreaming, they wouldn't even add a 1 min debuff, and you think your getting a 45 min one?

 

The quitting is a symptom, not the problem, the problem is unbalanced teams, most people don't need to be steam rolling to not quit of of a warzone, just feel that they have a chance in hell to win. Installing a matchmaker is the only solution to reduce quitting.

You also have to take in consideration that the next guy who joins waste a minute of his time in the queue quitting, keep in mind that if 10 more people do the exact same by joining and quiting after him in the same match, that's wasting 1 minute of 10 peoples time. Just to keep in mind.

In the worst assessment, that means we would have equal positive and negative utility. The leaver saved himself from 10 minutes of frustration, but at the cost of 10 other players wasting 1 minute each.

 

1 player * 10 minutes of annoyance = 10 units of annoyance

10 players * 1 minute of annoyance = 10 units of annoyance

 

But we still might be able to get a positive utility calculation! This depends on how annoyed/frustrated the first leaver would have been by staying those 10 extra minutes, and how annoyed/frustrated each subsequent newcomer is by wasting their minute of time.

 

Wasted time annoyance might be cumulative, such that in the first minute he experiences 1 unit of annoyance, then 1.5 in the second minute, 2 in the third, and so on until the end. Maybe the progression isn't linear, but you get the idea. Under that model, the newcomers would only derive 1 unit of annoyance for that first wasted minute. This tips the scale back towards the first leaver.

 

10 minutes of annoyance = (1 + 1.5 + 2 + 2.5 ... + 5.5) units of annoyance = 32.5 units of annoyance

10 players * 1 minute of annoyance = 10 units of annoyance

 

At least from the perspective of 1 Leaver vs. 10 Newcomers, the balance is probably on the side of the leaver.

 

We can still make it trickier by taking into account the players that did NOT choose to leave. And the question remains, how much disutility do we cause them by leaving? It turns out that answer is a tough one. Some of them might just say "good riddance" with you gone, generating no additional disutility. Others might be genuinely annoyed at leavers for moral reasons, which would add some unhappiness to the balance. Still others might be frustrated, but no more frustrated than if you had stayed and played to a blowout loss. I suspect that the annoyance that they feel at losing isn't much less or more than the annoyance they feel by an early leaver, but it's up for argument. (Of course,there is also the enemy team to consider, but there is something nonsensical about considering their utility; we are going to just leave it out).

 

So adding additional players into the equation complicates the matter (but it's still an interesting line of inquiry). We are still left with no clear cut answer.

 

I agree that it is a very interesting topic that is worth discussing. My suspicion is that there MIGHT BE some ethical answer that gives a very reasonable argument as to why we shouldn't leave WZs. And we might be able to find it! At least from a strict utility calculus, however, it is a very tricky problem that probably doesn't produce a compelling argument to stay in losing pug WZs.

Edited February 20, 2013 by ktkenshinx

If you're smart, you only waste a minute.....literally. Just quit when you see that you're backfilling. simple solution.

Now, lets focus on the actual problems not the symptoms of those problems, shall we?

Instead of asking for folks to not quit...maybe ask the devs for a /resign feature? Just sayin'........

 

A /resign voting system might be the answer...or it might open a whole other can of worms. Not sure how much is incumbent on BW to rectify player behaviour here, beyond applying a minor disincentive. I'd rather players quit than go afk.

Remember this, when you leave early because you don't want to waste your time, remember that every time you do someone who is waiting next in the queue has to waste their time taking your spot. Think about this next time you leave a warzone early.

 

That's exactly what i think when I leave every single Premade vs Allstar, F2P, DPS, WZ. No way! Waist someone else's time.

If you're smart, you only waste a minute.....literally. Just quit when you see that you're backfilling. simple solution.

Now, lets focus on the actual problems not the symptoms of those problems, shall we?

Instead of asking for folks to not quit...maybe ask the devs for a /resign feature? Just sayin'........

 

this is true, and for OP - stop posting stupid threads

When they institute 30 - 45 min debuff, i'll wish you the best of luck as you stand on fleet twiddling thumbs in gen chat too. We all win.

 

never going to happen, even the group finder one is only 5 min I think

People who are willing to leave wz's early are often solo queued and are looking for the best way to have a good time in tor, so they don't particularly care about the effect that it has on another person. That's also why so many pugs are dps, it's just more fun to kill (even if they are horrid at it ) than to kite while keeping other people alive. I don't particularly care about people saying that they're going to leave warzones because it's to better their own experience because there isn't really an argument that can be made that their overall experience will be worsened by them leaving. What I do dislike is that they will gladly say that they are leaving a wz because their team is too bad, but they never mention that they are going to requeue in the hopes of finding a team that will play at or close to their level.

 

Fixed.

Remember this, when you leave early because you don't want to waste your time, remember that every time you do someone who is waiting next in the queue has to waste their time taking your spot. Think about this next time you leave a warzone early.

 

Oh well, their quit warzone button is located in the same place as mine, I'm pretty sure.